Rifle Scopes PRS style scope for poor people

[Codiekfx400]

Looking for opinions on a 5-25x56 type mil mil scope. Narrowed it down to weaver tactical 6-30x56, athlon cronus btr 4.5-29x56, Steiner t5xi 5-25x56. Not interested in a Burris xtr ii had one and it was not good enough glass for what I need it for. Any opinions are appreciated. Thought about blowing the big money on a pm ii or Khales 624 or Steiner m5xi but was hoping to get by with something a little bit more budget friendly. Thanks

 

[Bender]

I own a SWFA 10x, sold two 3-15’s (ran perfect) and literally as I type this, my Weaver 6-30x56 just arrived at home 160 miles away from me, either would be a great scope, the best? That’s always subjective, I don’t shoot competitions and I take my time just messing around shooting range Steel, that is why the weaver will be perfect for me, had I found a good deal on the SWFA 5-25x50, I would’ve bought it without hesitation as well. If you are going to do competitions you probably could find a better reticle. But as far as tracking and built like a cinder block, either will suit you fine.

 

[patriot07]

Should also consider the SWFA HD 5-20 in that price range. Maybe the best combination of price, glass quality, build quality, and tracking reliability available.

 

[NewsShooter]

I have the cronus, had a burris and bushnell DMR before it. I really like the cronus and the reticle. I've purchased two and a friend will be getting one this week. I got a great price from Bulldog Firearms here on the hide.

 

[man32ahan]

Whats your max budget on a scope?

 

[M77]

Gen1 Razor is a good entry point into the LR shooting. They track well , hard zero stop / 10mil turrets and the glass is good.
Otherwise maybe a Swfa Hd or the Revised Steiner T5xi with scr reticle

 

[randallGrisham]

I'm running a SIG tango 4 6-24 ffp it tracks very well and has a zero stop its no gen 2 razor but I don't have any complaints for the difference in price

 

[Codiekfx400]

Whats your max budget on a scope?

Max budget is at $1500.

 

[Diver160651]

heck I ended up getting a Nightforce benchrest 12-42 for the same price as the SWFA. Just my opinion, but NF is wayyy better than swfa, so I couldn't see spending $1500 on a swfa with mil dots,..w.

I am confused, but not in anyway about to tell you your are stupid, etc. Are you saying that your benchrest with capped turrets and best a 20 moa reticle is a good choice for PRS matches?

I think one could miss a time cut-off by not having some features that make dialing or really deep holds if required faster, but I don't think one would miss targets due the glass quality difference in a NF, Vortex, SWFA, XTRII, ERS etc..

Not interested in a Burris xtr ii had one and it was not good enough glass for what I need it for.

So OP, that brings up a point, I am not sure what you say the newer XTRii's glass is not good enough for what you need it for; but I have been behind most of these mentioned and I don't see your choices being earth shatteringly different. Again, I have yet to see someone at a match miss or rack a DNF because the glass quality, jacked erectors sure...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Max budget is at $1500.

HDMR2

 

[flatland1]

A month or two ago, Natchez Shooter Supply had the Weaver 6-30x56 for $700 after rebate. Nothing else I've seen or am aware of would come close to representing a better value - I have two that I bought several years ago while Midway had them on clearance. However, they do have a fair amount of CA, and the reticle doesn't compare to that of the Cronus, which I also own. When Athlon updated the Cronus' reticle & came out with the BTR model, they dumped their remaining inventory of the original Cronus, and Cabela's was selling them for $1k. Too bad you didn't get in on that, as that's under dealer price on those scopes, and their glass & reticle are both a couple of notches in quality above that of the Weaver IMHO.

 

[morganlamprecht]

years ago I had considered these, but I couldn't get around the price,..heck I ended up getting a Nightforce benchrest 12-42 for the same price as the SWFA. Just my opinion, but NF is wayyy better than swfa, so I couldn't see spending $1500 on a swfa with mil dots,..when I could get NF quality and a choice of reticles. I stil have the benchrest on a Weatherby rifle,...I've had several swfa lower powered scopes, and they worked great, but once you get up over say $1000, there's just better options. Now everyone can get mad and tell me how stupid I am I know. I personally like Nightforce, it's always been dependable for me. Guess that's why you don't ever see many at matches right.

how many swfa 5-20hd's have you owned?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

how many swfa 5-20hd's have you owned?

I had a few as well as several close friends. Probably a little over a dozen samples total. We all paid about a grand a piece for them on the initial buy in, sales, or gently used. Back when they came out they offered an exceptional value and we also weren't shooting these high speed matches where there are some critical features. Of all the samples there was never any sort of failure in any of them, they're very solidly built. They've got good glass and track 100%. My complaints and why I wouldn't buy them today or run them on a comp gun:

- Lack of zero stop. This one is critical to me.

- Lack of good reticle options. At the very least something with .2mil hashmarks but ideally a tree too.

- Overly stiff adjustments. The turrets are good but on every one the magnification and parallax were super stiff and never loosened up.


There's better options today. If SWFA rolled out with the better reticle, zero stop, and fixed the stiff adjustments they'd have a hell of a scope that would easily compete with anything in the sub $2K market.

 

[morganlamprecht]

I think i already said i had lower powered ones....but hey im sure they are as good as NF....Leupold...Trijicon....lol...so hey if you're into them high end Tasco's I say go for it!lmfao

ok, so none of the 5-20hd's...which arent the same scope as the low end ones...glad you shared your valuable opinion about something youve never used with everyone

 

[morganlamprecht]

I had a few as well as several close friends. Probably a little over a dozen samples total. We all paid about a grand a piece for them on the initial buy in, sales, or gently used. Back when they came out they offered an exceptional value and we also weren't shooting these high speed matches where there are some critical features. Of all the samples there was never any sort of failure in any of them, they're very solidly built. They've got good glass and track 100%. My complaints and why I wouldn't buy them today or run them on a comp gun:

- Lack of zero stop. This one is critical to me.

- Lack of good reticle options. At the very least something with .2mil hashmarks but ideally a tree too.

- Overly stiff adjustments. The turrets are good but on every one the magnification and parallax were super stiff and never loosened up.


There's better options today. If SWFA rolled out with the better reticle, zero stop, and fixed the stiff adjustments they'd have a hell of a scope that would easily compete with anything in the sub $2K market.

i agree on most... the reticle, usable, but theres much better out there now...ive had a few and while a couple had nice parallax and mag ring tension, some were really stiff...ive never really worried about a zero stop on 10mil turrets, most of my scopes have them (or built in slightly below) but i never really use them...that said, you can pretty easily find used 5-20s for $8-900 which id take over any of the ers/dmr/xtr2/pst/etc options

 

[redneckbmxer24]

i agree on most... the reticle, usable, but theres much better out there now...ive had a few and while a couple had nice parallax and mag ring tension, some were really stiff...ive never really worried about a zero stop on 10mil turrets, most of my scopes have them (or built in slightly below) but i never really use them

I just don't know why someone would buy one now when you can get the DMR2/HDMR2 for the same price. You get the same build quality (made in the same Japanese factory), same optical quality, better reticle options, zero stop, and adjustments that aren't stiff. MAP is $1500-$1600 on these and you can get them a little lower even.

 

[morganlamprecht]

redneck, you quoted, before my edit went thru...but i wouldnt pay 1500 for a 5-20 (or whatever retail is)...i havent messed with the dmr2's, but just picked up an ers2 from a prize table and it looks much more impressive than any of the previous bushnells ive owned

 

[redneckbmxer24]

redneck, you quoted, before my edit went thru...but i wouldnt pay 1500 for a 5-20 (or whatever retail is)...i havent messed with the dmr2's, but just picked up an ers2 from a prize table and it looks much more impressive than any of the previous bushnells ive owned

I see now, but I don't know where you're finding them for that. I don't scour the classifieds every day but do pretty frequently and it's been a while since I've seen one for sale. When I do it's usually $1200 or a little more. I agree that for under $1K I'd take them over anything else under $1K as everything there either lacks the same features the SWFA does or doesn't have the quality. They aren't sub $1K though at retail so that's kinda apples to oranges.

Regardless, they could be $50 and I wouldn't bring one to a PRS match because I wouldn't run an optic that lacks the features it does. If you can get it under a grand and that's the budget and you aren't shooting matches, then absolutely it would be a great option.

 

[Nathan11B]

Bushnell DMR II

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Maybe you already know this but I'll mention it anyway since I haven't seen it addressed. Primary Arms offers the Weaver under their own brand as the Platinum Series. Available is two different reticles. Better than the Weaver, IMO. They have a third coming soon. It's a Christmas tree style. It's right at your max of $1500.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

no,..not specifically for prs matches,..but in general,..I think theres better options than the swfa......heck even a Leupold vx-3i......now theres a good scope at the $1000 mark!

Everyone knows I am a certified Leupold fanboy, hell I've got the first one I ever owned, it'll turn 37 this year(shit I'm getting old). But a VX3i better than a 5-20 SWFA SS non-ilum?
Man your cheese done slid off your cracker.

Oh and by the way. The VX3i is $850 right now from Midway. Not a bad deal really.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

. It's a Christmas tree style

That's called a Horus...or "El tenenbaum" in the real cool circles.

I know a couple guys with three teeth between them, who call them "horse" reticles. But they can't pronounce reticle either. Play hell out of a banjo though.

 

[Diver160651]

Again, trying to divorce this thread from "the glass isn't good enough" and staying on track for a scope as titled in the thread "PRS style scope for poor people" .

Some of the scopes tossed out have the crappiest mushy turrets.. nothing is free; with the wrong focus, we can get a something less than we should.

Let's take a step back and figure out what the main assets are in order for a scope to be good for long range precision under very tight time constraints. Maybe make a list in the order of importance.. Being realistic is important, as more often than not, you can win a match never going past 15x.. but will struggle if your erector doesn't do as it should fast and cleanly.

Seems no mater were the thread it starts, it is almost always starting backwards.. with the main points being Price first, then must be 25X oh ya, then assume glass.. because of this people often end up with scopes that have crap turrets or low travel..

Toss price out the window and come back to it last.. it will show you what is left over..

Make a decision tree, mine might start like:

1. FFP
2. Reticle for smaller holds (that my brain likes)
3. Elevation needed
4. Exposed Rock solid turrets/ erector
5. Adj Paralax -- that is forgiving
6. FOV
7. Magnification range
8. Glass quality
9. Locking windage
10. warrantee
Price = filtered by price -- used as an option.. then remove options or quality only from the bottom up.

I don't move on to the next until the one above it has been checked off.

The point being, get the stuff that truly maters for the purpose of the scope to the top of your decision tree.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I bought the bundle,...with the ARD and sunshade. LMAO,..my cheese might be slid off,..but yea I'll take my Leupold over an swfa any day, I do have some swfa older models,..and I like them,..but to me,...they sort of generic scopes....or like ...dressed up tascos....

Just like that Primary arms.....NO WAY in hell I'm ever paying over $500 for anything with Primary Arms stamped on it. Just seems like cheap crap to me. sorta the same with swfa....yea yea I know they good and all that,..hey if you like them,..go for it! I'll LOL at you when I see you at a MATCH WITH A SWFA OR A PRIMARY ARMS....


lmao,..watch all the hurt feelings,....

Dressed up Tascos....funny you should say that...
When Tascos were made at LOW, they were very good glass.

Now PA I agree with you 100%

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Everyone knows I am a certified Leupold fanboy, hell I've got the first one I ever owned, it'll turn 37 this year(shit I'm getting old). But a VX3i better than a 5-20 SWFA SS non-ilum?
Man your cheese done slid off your cracker.

Oh and by the way. The VX3i is $850 right now from Midway. Not a bad deal really.

It's hard to say for sure since they're pretty new and myself nor anyone I know has tested them out, but in some regard I agree with him.

VX3 models have always had pretty good glass, so I don't see why it would lack anything to the SWFA there. VX3 models have always tracked well and have been reliable, so again not sure what it gives up there either.

What it has over the SWFA is zero stop, and better reticle in the way of the CCH. Also $500 lower price point going off of retail for the 5-20 @ $1500 and the 6.5-20 CCH @$1000.

Where it lacks is 5 mil turret vs 10 mil but I'll give this up to get zero stop and the reticle. 10 mil would still be better but for a grand and less NEW at full retail you can't be too picky.

I'm very tempted to pick up a 6.5-20 CCH model to try out but they're still out of stock and Leupold hasn't given an ETA as of yet. The TMR's are in though.

BTW Euro Optic has them listed for the same price and there's a 13% off coupon code on the product pages.

 

[Birddog6424]

I'm the "Burris guy" here on the boards, so feel free to take my opinion however you choose. But I've been behind more XTR II's than you can beat with a stick. I've compared them on multiple occasions to just about every sub $1800 optic out there.. The very large majority of sub $1500 optics aren't going to give you much change in glass quality. Some may appear better here and there, so you can improve on it. But the difference is negligible, and certainly not to the extent that they will make any difference in your shooting capabilities. If you are shooting PRS, you will notice zero difference in your scores.

I do like the SWFA HD that's been mentioned. I think it's a solid scope that would treat you well, and the glass is nice. But if you want a significant bump in glass quality that actually pops you are going to have to go with the Cronus, or T5Xi. If you really just want glass that is very nice because they are such a pleasure to look through, I think you will need to bump your budget.

All of the scopes mentioned are solid performers and reliable. Once you reach that point, everything above that is paying for glass.

 

[Birddog6424]

One of the very first long range setups I had 3 decades ago, I bought a gigantic Tasco Varmint model,..I don't remember but it was like 24x...
it was CAMO too! I thought it was badass back then,..lol,...it really was pretty horrible though. Almost NO eye relief,....like looking through dirty water,.,...ah the bad ole days!

Haha, I had one of those..

Mine was the 6-18 Varminter that I had on a Mini-14 223. Killed a lot of Chucks with that rifle.

 

[morganlamprecht]

I'll LOL at you when I see you at a MATCH WITH A SWFA OR A PRIMARY ARMS....

let me know when you come to a match in TX...ill go buy another 5-20hd to mount up and see you there...we'll see what happens next

 

[delfuego]

Gen 1 Razor is good stuff!

 

[morganlamprecht]

LMAO,...its all good man,....but i'll stay with Nightforce and Leupold.....

I don't shoot matches and competitions anymore....I ain't trying to prove anything to anybody anymore....I know what I can do and what I can't...and I know what my gear can do and what it can't. I just love to see you guys get all butt hurt when someone talks bad about your scope....lol,..I'm usually sitting here smothering I'm laughing so hard. You don't have to try and call me out and challenge me,...I'm sure you're a lot better shooting than me,....there's plenty people who are. But even so,..I'm still going to call your scope shit,......lmao

dont give yourself so much credit...i dont care about you one way or another...what i dislike is stupidity and misinformation, 2 things you seem to have in abundance

 

[delfuego]

My recommendation for the Gen1 Razor was for the OP. Out of the 3 Codiefx400 listed, I would get the Steiner.

With regards to the SWFA 5-20HD scope; I have owned it and it was and is a very good scope. The glass in it is excellent, and blows the Bushnell DMR and Nightforce NSX out of the water. Their glass is far better than most, they track, are durable and the company is good on warranty.

SethJ: If you want to start a "I hate Tasco thread" be my guest. But this is someone elses thread and we are trying to assist them, not argue with you.

 

[skatz11]

You can’t be serious. Pretty much any FFP scope coming out of LOW is a legit scope with quality glass and proven quality/tracking.

Primary Arms (Platinum)
SWFA SS (HD),
Weaver (Tactical)
Bushnell(Elite)
Athlon (Cronus)

Over the last couple of years I’ve found these scopes to provide great value in terms of price vs performance.

 

[delfuego]

Oh excuse the crap outta me,..the OP asked for ANY opinions,...well,..my opinion of the swfa is it sucks at it's price,...lol..sorry for you if you got burned!

You're a clown. Go back to ARF.com

 

[Birddog6424]

Well others here might not say it,..lol,..but they thinking it too.....swfa,.....lolz,....

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot the SWFA 5-20 HD in a PRS match.

Maybe you shouldn't speak for the rest of us there brother. Especially the ones who do compete regularly and understand what does and does not constitute a good PRS scope.

 

[Bender]

no,..not specifically for prs matches,..but in general,..I think theres better options than the swfa......heck even a Leupold vx-3i......now theres a good scope at the $1000 mark!

Facepalm........

 

[Bender]

I wouldn't dirty up one of my good rifles with an SWFA or a primary arms,...LOL

Your ignorance is showing, might want to stuff that back in ..........

 

[MarinePMI]

While I have upgraded to a Razor Gen II, I shot the SH Cup in 2015 with an SWFA 5-25 mounted on my AI-AT. It wasn't the scope missing targets, that's for sure.

Of course, it was 42 degrees and pissing rain the first two days, and we were spending half our time laying in mud puddles, so there were other distractions to contend with. But that scope tracked and held up to getting beat on a few times going through some of the stages. (Man, that was a great match.)

 

[spife7980]

Oh excuse the crap outta me,..the OP asked for ANY opinions,...well,..my opinion of the swfa is it sucks at it's price,...lol..sorry for you if you got burned!

Heres an opinion: Shut up. Youre making a fool out of yourself.

 

[man32ahan]

Max budget is at $1500.

For that budget I would consider a gen 1 Razor. They can be found on here for that price or lower even sometimes.

 

[Bender]

Oh excuse the crap outta me,..the OP asked for ANY opinions,...well,..my opinion of the swfa is it sucks at it's price,...lol..sorry for you if you got burned!

You are not overly burdened with original ideas are you.

 

[RTH1800]

This is off topic slightly and I might get flamed.

I personally don't have an issue with cheap stuff that works. I sure don't have an issue with expensive stuff that works.

Travel, match shooting and long range shooting in general is not an inexpensive proposition. Ammo and or a good loading set up cost money. Scope and rifle is a near one time expense or at least long use. Why skimp on this.

I would find it near impossible to pay 1500 for any scope that does not say NF or S&B on it. (Yes, you can get them used at near that price.) I prefer quality to getting the exact features everyone else wants this week. Next week reticule choice changes, other things change as well. Quality last. Quality retains value. I would shop used and compromise on the features.

Just my opinion.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

That's called a Horus...or "El tenenbaum" in the real cool circles.

I know a couple guys with three teeth between them, who call them "horse" reticles. But they can't pronounce reticle either. Play hell out of a banjo though.

Don't you have to pay a royalty every time you mention 'it' on SnipesHide?

 

[Codiekfx400]

This thread seems to have gotten a little bit off track but I am looking forward to more recommendations. Ultimately I want something that tracks well and functions flawlessly. It is hard to spend this much money on a scope and get a less quality sight picture (glass) than what I get with my Leupold vx6. Which is the nicest scope in my collection now. I am leaning towards the t5xi but the general consensus seems to be the Cronus btr has better (glass).

 

[Codiekfx400]

At this point I have 2 Athlons on 22LRs for training. I am not impressed. I have several 3+k scopes, but also the many of the others discussed.

The 2 Athlons you speak of are they the Cronus models.

 

[Diver160651]

I might wait for the 2018 stuff.. My issue, antidotal is the BTRs ocular/parallax relationship. It is super shallow on the BTRs... enough that my eyes get tired.

So bright glass, tired eyes, more misses. All that said I am running a legacy USO as my favorite, my eyes love it more than my other scopes- S&B, F1, Razor etc (Personal scope experience).. I hope this points out, once all the feature boxes are checked.. it is your eyes that matter, not mine.

All that said for a budget, the ERS and XTR are very hard to beat. Easy eye box, forgiving parallax.

Takeaway the time pressure all is good.. Think about this, target 1, 826y, T7 251y with 5 in-between.. 3 positions on a obstacle.... 90-120 seconds... Do you want to deal with mush turrets, recoil, reracking, the move and reset, oh ya, that finicky parallax?

 

[FireShooter]

Of the scope mentioned above I’ve used all but the Athlon Cronus. I’ve had 2 xtr 2 scopes which I don’t feel the glass ever kept me from making any hits or seeing critters. I killed several critters at fair distance with my 3-15. If I didn’t want to break over 1k retail that would be my choice. The glass is the weakest point on the Xtr 2 series IMO.

The T5xi is a good scope. Nice turrrets and zero stop. The illumination is good and glass is pretty decent but did have CA around light colored objects in bright sun. Once again it isn’t going to make you miss anything. Tracked good.

The gen 1 razor is good. I used a buddy’s once a while ago the main thing that stood out to me was the glass was noticeably better than my Gen 1 HDMR that I was using at the time. If this is a hunting and comp gun they are kinda big to hunt with IMO. I wouldn’t hesitate to use one if I came across one for a good deal.

Bushnell LRTS/LRHS these are nice scopes for the money. They track good. They are a small package and have good glass. I use one on my main 223 Coyote gun. I ran one on the same rifle at my first club match and placed 6th out of 30 some contestants shooting to over 1 k. It was a nice day..

The Sig tango 6 gen 1 series can be found every once in awhile and the are pretty good. I got a used 3-18 that I will be testing on my yote rifle for awhile. Only 8 mil turrets.

I just got a Leupold 3.6-18 mk 5 that I mounted up and will be on my 6.5 cm it is the best glass I’ve had so far. It is a couple hundy’s Over par for your budget and they are still pretty new. Time will tell how they hold up.

The bushnell HDMR is a nice scope but no zero stop. If you use a Horus reticle a ZS is not a must have. Unless you really prefer dialing. I think the gen 1 DMR has slightly better glass than the XTR 2 series.

I am moving away from the Horus and my personal favorite reticle right now is the bushnell G3. I like half mil hashes instead of .2 mil. I dial most of the time but I will hold in fast paced hunting scenarios and I found myself getting lost in the grid on the Horus sometimes. I’m going to simple mil reticles now. But if I found a good deal on a scope with a Horus reticle I wouldn’t let it keep me from missing out on a good scope. Hope this helps.

 

[patriot07]

Seth - quit while you're ahead bud.

Nobody is saying your NF is junk. But the SWFA 5-20 HD hangs with it in every way possible, and can be had for $1k used. There was one that went for a little over $800 on here a couple months ago. They're a ridiculous value if you don't mind the lack of a zero stop. The build quality, glass quality, and tracking reliability are second to none in the price range, although others have gotten more competitive in the last few years.

 

[blarsonewu]

The Cronus BTR is very hard to beat for the price point. Most people wont look at it because of the brand, but , you should definitley consider it. I am more than happy with mine.

 

[Badfinger]

Looking for opinions on a 5-25x56 type mil mil scope. Narrowed it down to weaver tactical 6-30x56, athlon cronus btr 4.5-29x56, Steiner t5xi 5-25x56. Not interested in a Burris xtr ii had one and it was not good enough glass for what I need it for. Any opinions are appreciated. Thought about blowing the big money on a pm ii or Khales 624 or Steiner m5xi but was hoping to get by with something a little bit more budget friendly. Thanks

A new Weaver 6-30x56 just went for sale in the PX for $750.00

 

[predator308]

@MarinePMI Nice experience The SWFA 5-25 is a execellent scope no doubt, How did it fair in does codition Water proof, Fog proof