Here my honest review of these products: They work and work well, but there are somethings you should know.
I was building an American Rifle Archimedes action that was going into a Foundation stock and I was in search of a barrel. I reached out to PVA and caught Josh answering the phones. I explained to him that I was building a PRS style rig and was looking for a barrel. We spoke of the Osprey's and I new it would be a good barrel as I had a PVA prefit for a RPR that shot dime size groups all day long.
When speaking about the copper bullets Josh told me they had better performance due to the high BC and lower weight of comparable BC bullets, which allowed them to fly faster. He told me they mag fed without any issues, and I could switch back and forth to cup & core bullets without any issue. Josh also said the bullets were forgiving to seating depth and easy to load for.
This is where I ran into issues. I started my load development at 42.6 of H4350 in Peterson Brass with CCI450 primers, COAL 15thou off the mag max length of 2.875". Shot 5 round groups up to 43.5, with no promising group. Then I loaded 43.6 to 44.5 and found two promising groups at 43.9 and 44, both had 3 round touching and 2 flyers(See target below).
I thought something weird might be going on because I felt like the gun wanted to shoot and the data looked promising. 43.7 grain load with shot average velocity was 2993, 43.8 was 2997, 43.9 was 2998, and 44 was 3001 with SD's at 10.36,13.09,10.28, and 5.35 respectively. that seemed like a node to me. I ultimately choose to move forward with the 44 grain load and called Josh about the flyers.
With Josh's guidance I found that the Bolt handle relief in the stock wasn't correct the, the bolt wasn't closing all of the way. So I sent the stock back to Foundation and those amazing people really dialed me, John kyle really did more than he had to on that fix.
So I got the stock back and Josh had mentioned that neck tension may be an issue. So I then tested neck tension 4 different ways and that didn't seem to make difference.
After some other conversations I decided to see how far I was loading the pilot band on the bullets off of the lands. I painted the pilot band with a sharpee and then used my Hornady comparator and came up with a length of 2.952 COAL for the pilot band touching the lands. Then worked back from there in .005" increments and when I got to an overall length of 2.917" i print a 4 shot group with .35 Moa and then 5 shot took it to .51 Moa, with an absurd 2.77 4 shot sd and 5.68 5 shot sd. The target below with no writing is the seating depth and this group is the left column bottom group. You can see on the same target that as you move down the right side column the groups open up the further the pilot band gets from the lands.
In conclusion I am fairly happy with the barrel, as a matter if fact I fire formed my brass with 123 Amax bullets and even those shot under an 1" with a random powder charge. I am going to work up the Berger 130's next. The 130's G7 is .287 compared to the PVA Seneca's at .294 and are $0.31 less expensive per projectile and will most likely shoot out of a magazine.
I'm not very happy with the Seneca's, if you buy them in bulk and take the discount for doing so you are looking at $0.83 per projectile. There is no guarantee that the projectiles will feed from a magazine, and in my experience with a .199" freebore they don't shoot out of a magazine. This sucks for PVA because at an average barrel life of 3500 rounds for a 6.5 creed I would have spent nearly 3k there in projectiles over the life of the barrel.
My PVA generally speaking has treated me good but they are difficult to communicate with and there is only one guy there that can answer real technical questions about loading and stuff. Lately he seems to be very busy.
I am going to try an ARC long Magazine which claims to be able to hold 2.950" length rounds and see if that may work in my rifle and once I run the Bergers i will update this thread.
43.5 - 44.4 Loads
Longest load 2.952 on the top left Column best group of 2.917 at bottom of left column and shortest load on the bottom of the right column.
I was building an American Rifle Archimedes action that was going into a Foundation stock and I was in search of a barrel. I reached out to PVA and caught Josh answering the phones. I explained to him that I was building a PRS style rig and was looking for a barrel. We spoke of the Osprey's and I new it would be a good barrel as I had a PVA prefit for a RPR that shot dime size groups all day long.
When speaking about the copper bullets Josh told me they had better performance due to the high BC and lower weight of comparable BC bullets, which allowed them to fly faster. He told me they mag fed without any issues, and I could switch back and forth to cup & core bullets without any issue. Josh also said the bullets were forgiving to seating depth and easy to load for.
This is where I ran into issues. I started my load development at 42.6 of H4350 in Peterson Brass with CCI450 primers, COAL 15thou off the mag max length of 2.875". Shot 5 round groups up to 43.5, with no promising group. Then I loaded 43.6 to 44.5 and found two promising groups at 43.9 and 44, both had 3 round touching and 2 flyers(See target below).
I thought something weird might be going on because I felt like the gun wanted to shoot and the data looked promising. 43.7 grain load with shot average velocity was 2993, 43.8 was 2997, 43.9 was 2998, and 44 was 3001 with SD's at 10.36,13.09,10.28, and 5.35 respectively. that seemed like a node to me. I ultimately choose to move forward with the 44 grain load and called Josh about the flyers.
With Josh's guidance I found that the Bolt handle relief in the stock wasn't correct the, the bolt wasn't closing all of the way. So I sent the stock back to Foundation and those amazing people really dialed me, John kyle really did more than he had to on that fix.
So I got the stock back and Josh had mentioned that neck tension may be an issue. So I then tested neck tension 4 different ways and that didn't seem to make difference.
After some other conversations I decided to see how far I was loading the pilot band on the bullets off of the lands. I painted the pilot band with a sharpee and then used my Hornady comparator and came up with a length of 2.952 COAL for the pilot band touching the lands. Then worked back from there in .005" increments and when I got to an overall length of 2.917" i print a 4 shot group with .35 Moa and then 5 shot took it to .51 Moa, with an absurd 2.77 4 shot sd and 5.68 5 shot sd. The target below with no writing is the seating depth and this group is the left column bottom group. You can see on the same target that as you move down the right side column the groups open up the further the pilot band gets from the lands.
In conclusion I am fairly happy with the barrel, as a matter if fact I fire formed my brass with 123 Amax bullets and even those shot under an 1" with a random powder charge. I am going to work up the Berger 130's next. The 130's G7 is .287 compared to the PVA Seneca's at .294 and are $0.31 less expensive per projectile and will most likely shoot out of a magazine.
I'm not very happy with the Seneca's, if you buy them in bulk and take the discount for doing so you are looking at $0.83 per projectile. There is no guarantee that the projectiles will feed from a magazine, and in my experience with a .199" freebore they don't shoot out of a magazine. This sucks for PVA because at an average barrel life of 3500 rounds for a 6.5 creed I would have spent nearly 3k there in projectiles over the life of the barrel.
My PVA generally speaking has treated me good but they are difficult to communicate with and there is only one guy there that can answer real technical questions about loading and stuff. Lately he seems to be very busy.
I am going to try an ARC long Magazine which claims to be able to hold 2.950" length rounds and see if that may work in my rifle and once I run the Bergers i will update this thread.
43.5 - 44.4 Loads
Longest load 2.952 on the top left Column best group of 2.917 at bottom of left column and shortest load on the bottom of the right column.
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