Night Vision Pvs-14, how do you guys rate the purchase?

[History]

Just purchased a new setup from USnightvision. I had asked for help on another forum finding something fast because of the uncertainty going on right now and was pointed in the direction of white phosphorus. I would have asked here but had forgotten thismforum even existed, (SORRY). I'm vaguely familiar with pvs14 and thermal in general but just enough that I may have spent more money than I should have. I would have went with the setup Steve in 29 went with but they were 90 days out and I was afraid to wait that long. I'll try and post the specs and see what you guys think. If I have posted anything I shouldn't please feel free to edit\remove.

I paid $3600 for this filmed unit. Steve Gibbons @usnightvision told me I was better off using the filmed unit as they last longer and that the us mil has stopped placing orders in general for the filmless units. I'm so new to all of this that I took his word and hopefully he's a straight shooter. Let me know how I did considering circumstances please. Thanks for the time and answers.

 

[jwramp]

told me I was better off using the filmed unit as they last longer and that the us mil has stopped placing orders in general for the filmless units

Interested in hearing others thoughts on these two statements. Have seen them be quite contentious in the past. Doubtful you'll get much in the way of hard evidence from either side though. I have my doubts to their validity.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

That rumor thin "filmed somehow last longer", "filmless degrades after 500 hours", "filmless is more fragile than thin filmed", and now the latest the Mil has stopped orders for filmless?? Wow, do not even know where to begin...

NONE of this a true at all. In fact the reason there is a new shortage of Unfilmed L3 tubes is the aviators are now switching to Unfilmed WPT tech along with massvie orders each month to Mil units and not just SOCOM.

 

[Hogrider2000]

my question to you would be a, are you pleased with the tube when you look through it.

If so then give it a rest--if not then tell the seller.

as Vic said. lotta rumors and BS out there. Me PERSONALLY, I like the green tube better than the WP, but that is MY preference.,

 

[Victor-TNVC]

my question to you would be a, are you pleased with the tube when you look through it.

If so then give it a rest--if not then tell the seller.

as Vic said. lotta rumors and BS out there. Me PERSONALLY, I like the green tube better than the WP, but that is MY preference.,

Agreed and well said. As for the tube, it does have solid specs and hope the OP is happy with it.

 

[TNVC_Will]

Interested in hearing others thoughts on these two statements. Have seen them be quite contentious in the past. Doubtful you'll get much in the way of hard evidence from either side though. I have my doubts to their validity.

Highly disappointing is my thought. How many times does this have to come up with the same result of zero evidence or proof to back up these claims? There have been enormous volumes of unfilmed tubes sold and they have widespread use in the DOD and elsewhere. If this was true in this modern day we'd be hearing first hand reports from end users all over the friggin internet and not just from sellers who sell thin filmed tubes which is where you can trace all of these statements originating from.

Unless he can provide proof to back up those claims he is either ignorantly regurgitating bad information or is purposely doing it to make the sale. Neither one instills confidence in trusting whatever he has to say regarding NV or possibly anything else. Good on the OP for bringing it up.

BTW - that's a great tube. You'll be happy with it.

 

[jwramp]

Agreed - wish there was more open-source information on those subjects that was easy to point folks to. Seems like the conversations just turn into yelling rather than evidence-based discussions. I'd think detailed info on both thin- and 'un'-filmed tubes with actual data behind it would be helpful to publish for the outfits that sell both types.

I'm not saying people have to prove someone else's argument. If the OP responds to their seller with "ok, please justify those claims" and they've got nothing, then the argument obviously doesn't have legs.

 

[TNVC_Will]

Agreed - wish there was more open-source information on those subjects that was easy to point folks to. Seems like the conversations just turn into yelling rather than evidence-based discussions. I'd think detailed info on both thin- and 'un'-filmed tubes with actual data behind it would be helpful to publish for the outfits that sell both types.

I'm not saying people have to prove someone else's argument. If the OP responds to their seller with "ok, please justify those claims" and they've got nothing, then the argument obviously doesn't have legs.

100% agree.

TNVC Sam's mentioned in his last YT video that he was going to L3H in AZ for some behind the scenes. I hope they are able to disclose some additional information about their unfilmed tech because what the anti-unfilmed guys use as the basis for their statements is correct. If a tube has zero film or other type of protection barrier than yes it will die a quick death...however.....there have been some hints that would point to the obvious answer why "unfilmed" tubes are able to survive as long as thin filmed tubes. My easiest non scientific answer based on pure speculation is that they are really really really thin filmed or something to that effect.

 

[stefan73]

That would be interesting to see that about the un-filmed.

I recently ordered a thin-film WP from TNVC. He said the thin L3 thin filmed WP is a huge improvement over what I have been using in the Army. So, I went with it. We'll see how I like the WP. From the pictures I think it will work great and probably better for this partially colorblind guy. I was running old crappy issue NVG's that had taken some abuse and could still consistently engage 300m targets (not hard at all). So

 

[History]

I asked because I couldn’t get a good, complete feel if I was miss lead or not. Example,,,, I just put new tires on the steering end of a commercial truck I own and I was happy with the old tires but WOW, it’s like a new truck with the new tires. I like what I have but it could be much better and I won’t know until I try something else. I don’t want to put someone down for no reason and just wanted to get the opinions of experienced people. It did feel he was a little pushy in retrospect or he was just trying to avoid all the same newb questions. As has been said, the proof is always in the pudding. We will see and thank you for the replies.

 

[stefan73]

At the end of the day, if you are happy looking through them, than you did good. If you can't see your hand in front of your face with a full moon than you didn't.

Victor said the specs look good. I would trust him, he is a wealth of knowledge and it is hard to determine if you really need un-filmed or not? I used old beat up issued PVS-14's and 7's for a long time! I started using 14's back in 2001 or 2002 if I remember correctly. There was a learning curve transitioning from the 7's to the 14's. About two years ago I was an OC at Fort Polk and drove with NVG's for two weeks every month for 10-11 months (rotations). I am excited to try the thin-filmed and it looks like they might have a bit more availability as the military transitions to the un-filmed?

In the end I think you will be happy.

 

[stefan73]

Let us know when you get it.

 

[TNVC_Will]

That would be interesting to see that about the un-filmed.

I recently ordered a thin-film WP from TNVC. He said the thin L3 thin filmed WP is a huge improvement over what I have been using in the Army. So, I went with it. We'll see how I like the WP. From the pictures I think it will work great and probably better for this partially colorblind guy. I was running old crappy issue NVG's that had taken some abuse and could still consistently engage 300m targets (not hard at all). So

Yes it would. Modern unfilmed aka filmless has been in use for quite some time and IMO why not share the info? Of course our foreign enemies with technical capability (China & Russia) have already gotten their hands on it and the same for L3H's competitors (Elbit & Photonis).

I'm confident you'll be more than satisfied with it and the majority of people prefer WP so odds are you'll feel the same.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

Does it fire up and you can see in the dark?

If so, that is where it is. Go out and have fun with it.

 

[History]

I have already purchased the unit I posted specs on. It’s all new to me and so far I do like it. Videos I watched on YouTube always seemed as if the unfilmed had a better view imo. It’s been fun so far and I’m waiting on an ir laser that’s in transit to arrive and try it out while shooting. I’m learning on the fly and would have researched much more if not for the current political climate. I just felt I needed something and fast.

 

[stefan73]

Will, wasn't there some issues with the un-filmed originally? Or was that just hearsay? I am still on edge of thin or un and I see why the OP has questions about it. There is just a lot of rumor about one or the other.

I know when people talk about JSOC I kind of roll my eyes a little bit. Some of those guys get nice kit and have a LOT of support behind them. You break your personally owned NVG's, well I hope you have insurance, cash or credit. So us poor's have to figure out what is the best performance/value. Tough decision, makes me want a beer.

Victor, would love to hear your thoughts? If not in this post a PM.

 

[TNVC_Will]

Will, wasn't there some issues with the un-filmed originally? Or was that just hearsay? I am still on edge of thin or un and I see why the OP has questions about it. There is just a lot of rumor about one or the other.

I know when people talk about JSOC I kind of roll my eyes a little bit. Some of those guys get nice kit and have a LOT of support behind them. You break your personally owned NVG's, well I hope you have insurance, cash or credit. So us poor's have to figure out what is the best performance/value. Tough decision, makes me want a beer.

Victor, would love to hear your thoughts? If not in this post a PM.

Originally, yes there were issues, however that was many many years ago. IMO, it's akin to saying modern AR-15's are junk based on the problems they had back in the early days in Vietnam. Not a perfect example but you know what I mean.

I don't think I'm out of line to re-post this reply that was shared on ARF by TNVC Sam so here it is below. @TNVC - let me know if I need to retract it. FWIW, I think all modern gen 3 tubes with good-to-great specs are awesome. It boils down to some (high spec unfilmed) are more awesome than others.


Sam, The engineers we sent to SHOT were hearing similar BS. 1) As you know, we are required to run sample units on lifetime reliability. The reliability requirement is 1500 hours on “accelerated reliability”. The accelerated profile is supposed to represent 10x acceleration over typical real-world use. This is possibly one source of mis-information. Each hour on the test box is supposed to be equivalent to ~10 hours of “real world” use. The profile is in the various MIL-PRFs. Note: the US Army designed the test, not the manufacturers. I pulled the last three months of complete data for the unfilmed product. On average, gain INCREASED 18% at 1500 hours, and SNR went down 1.2%. That’s only 15 tubes, because we only run 5 a month, and even the accelerated test takes around 3 months to complete. Next time you or anyone else from TNVC is in the factory, I will be happy to show you the equipment, as well as share some of the performance graphs. Now, the original unfilmed tubes from the late 90s early 2000s had serious lifetime issues. I remember ITT built some that lasted around 200 hours. The early Litton/L-3 ones were better, but honestly not by much. I’m told we got 500 hours, but the yield to get there was terrible. That was 15-20 years ago though. The tech is completely different now, and has been for many years. Also, the US Air Force would not have given us a $93 million contract for high-FOM unfilmed tubes if they had lifetime reliability problems. Contracts are public record, but just in case you need a link here is a news article:

https://www.militaryaerospace.com/sensors/article/14074668/electrooptical-nightvision-imageintensifier-tubes

Mark E. Horning Sr. Engineer – Integrated Vision Solutions Electron Tube Operations COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS / L3HARRIS TECHNOLOGIES 1215 S. 52nd St / Tempe, AZ 85281/ USA

 

[LibertyArms]

I am a novice for the most part and really on mess around for fun. I have had a few different units though from 14s and RNVGs in a good number of different specs from shitty with lots-o-blems to real nice clean filmless l3s. I personally don't think anyone should worry about life, but that's me. Hell even 500 hours is a lot of use for me or i assume most people. Downfall is... We all want the super fancy that everyone talks about. Reality is they are all useable and will do well with some use. Kicker is did you get what you could afford for what ya got. Specs look pretty nice. Id say enjoy them as you already spent the money. Performance may be an overated term i think for most NV ? IMHO

 

[TNVC_Will]

Reality is they are all useable and will do well with some use. Kicker is did you get what you could afford for what ya got. Specs look pretty nice. Id say enjoy them as you already spent the money. Performance may be an overated term i think for most NV ? IMHO

Totally agree but there are some terrible gen 3 tubes out there so folks have to be careful.

As long as someone buys from a reputable seller with a solid reputation who doesn’t shaft people they will be good to go.

For instance that $3k AGM 21SNR unit is a terrible buy and that tube would be seriously lacking in performance in relation to price.

 

[TheHorta]

In answer to OP’s original question, what you got and what you paid are just fine. Nothing special, nothing horrible, just... fine.

Use it without getting hung up on specs. It’s a perfectly serviceable unit that should perform just fine for many years to come.

Lastly, don’t believe everything a salesman tells you when it’s your dollars he is after.

 

[CBDR]

Just purchased a new setup from USnightvision. I had asked for help on another forum finding something fast because of the uncertainty going on right now and was pointed in the direction of white phosphorus. I would have asked here but had forgotten thismforum even existed, (SORRY). I'm vaguely familiar with pvs14 and thermal in general but just enough that I may have spent more money than I should have. I would have went with the setup Steve in 29 went with but they were 90 days out and I was afraid to wait that long. I'll try and post the specs and see what you guys think. If I have posted anything I shouldn't please feel free to edit\remove.

I paid $3600 for this filmed unit. Steve Gibbons @usnightvision told me I was better off using the filmed unit as they last longer and that the us mil has stopped placing orders in general for the filmless units. I'm so new to all of this that I took his word and hopefully he's a straight shooter. Let me know how I did considering circumstances please. Thanks for the time and answers.View attachment 7439428

Steve helped me with a issue in the past and I remember he treated me right. Gave me the real breakdown of my options and I feel I was treated right. Solid CS, Solid guy.

 

[ddavis]

From the pictures I think it will work great and probably better for this partially colorblind guy

Imagine all the money you could save if you were fully green colorblind. You could just buy GP and get the effect of WP.