PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

DMack

DMack

1SG
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 15, 2006
725
0
55
FL
#1
My friend Greg gave me his POF P308 to have a run with and tell him what I think about it. The moment he put it in my hand, my first initial thought was... "Man, this is a beautiful weapon."

I pulled the charging handle to the rear, to make sure the weapon was clear... and the action felt like it was on rollers. The finish of the upper / lower was very slick, silver, and shiny. I asked him how many rounds he had through it, and he stated that he had not fired it yet. He wanted me to run it hard, and tell him what I thought.

So, I have a virgin P308 to test beside my PWS 214... how fun is that?

Both are chambered in 7.62x51 NATO, Both have 14.5" Barrels, Both have carbine buffer tubes, and Both are wearing VLTOR EMOD stocks. So, I couldn't ASK for a more even set of rifles to shoot side by side.

The POF does not have optics on it. However, I have a QD mount on my US Optics SN3 and can move it from rifle to rifle. The POF does not have bipods either, so I can use my Harris on both rifles.

The POF has a single stage trigger, with a VERY short reset... my PWS has a Geissele SD-E two stage trigger.

I wanted to start this thread off with this. I am not "comparing" the two rifles. I am simply going to shoot them both, side by side, with the same ammo... and give my complete, unbiased opinion. This is an amazing opportunity for me, and Greg told me I can hang on to the rifle as long as I need it. Yes, I own the PWS... No, I don't own the POF. But, I have the chance to shoot them together, and I will do right by everyone here and stay completely neutral. My observations will be based on fact, and my OWN opinion. Just as I do with the PWS rifles, I say the good and the bad. I'm curious to see how they stack up against each other...

I have several shooters coming to train with me on Tuesday and Wednesday of next week, and Wednesday, we are doing a live fire day on our 1500m range. So, I will be able to test both rifles, not only up close, but out at distance as well. Since both are VERY close to equal, my DOPE that I have on my PWS "should" be close on the POF.

Stay tuned... Pictures and thoughts to follow.

Cheers!
 
#2
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

Sounds fun and I will be watching the thread. Thanks

About the "the action felt like it was on rollers" comment, that might be partially due to the fact the newer ones have a roller cam in the BCG.
 
#4
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

Interesting...somebody loan that man a REPR to throw in the mix!
smile.gif
 
#8
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lowlight said he would do a side by side test of the GAP10 and POF308 sometime in the near future since he has both.</div></div>

You might wanna check the topic in which he said that because that is no longer the case.
 
#9
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lowlight said he would do a side by side test of the GAP10 and POF308 sometime in the near future since he has both.</div></div>

You might wanna check the topic in which he said that because that is no longer the case. </div></div>

Yeah just saw that, dbags always ruin the good stuff.
 
#11
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

I'm out on TDY this weekend. However... I have taken pics of the two side by side. Range time on Wed.
 
#14
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

Ok, update will come. I just got home from work... I was able to mount my USO SN3 on the POF P308 yesterday, and mount my bipods... I will choose my words carefully, for I don't wish to offend anyone.

Let's just say this... My experience with the POF is not positive. I'm quite sure it is not indicative to this rifle as a whole... but, I only shot 20 rounds through it... and out of 20 rounds of 168 grain Federal Gold Medal Match... I had FOUR issues. Two fail to extract, One fail to load, and One Stove Pipe.

Yes the gas selector was on "N" and YES the ammo was clean, factory FGMM.

The owner is sending the weapon to POF for warranty work, and I will do a more IN DEPTH review of this rifle, as opposed to my PWS MK214.

Me, happy to run this gun.... I mounted my USO SN3 on it, along with my bipods..

MDC8.jpg


MDC9.jpg


MDC9a.jpg


MDC9b.jpg


MDC9d.jpg


My PWS MK214... I ran 200 rounds through it, not a single issue.

MDC4.jpg


More to follow...
 
#15
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

The bad news sucks and I have heard it more than once lately. I am only $400 shy of paying off my P308 and was looking forward to some good news, dammit man... Glad your PWS is running like a top though. I'll keep an eye out for more info, have fun shooting and thanks for the update.
 
#18
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

Don't get me wrong... The P308 is a beautiful rifle. I really want to like it... I'm sure the chamber is out of spec. The only issue is the raised rail... The operating rod is also loose.. its just gonna take some getting used to. The recoil pulse is definitely harder than the PWS.

I will do more comparison on the two when it comes back.
 
#19
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Camp Banding. We shoot on the .50 cal range or the Crew Combat Range. Military.</div></div>

was wondering if that was the one. Nice comparison/write up.
 
#20
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Angry_Pirate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe the POF just needs some more rounds through it?</div></div>I'm pretty sure he was ready to feed it all she wanted, but it was not hungry.
 
#21
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

I was absolutely stoked to get to run this POF next to my PWS. I had been waiting for this Range Day for a while. What got me excited, was the fact that the POF seems to be a very popular choice on this forum, and I have absolutely zero experience with them.

I came into this "comparison" open minded, so I wanted to be as unbiased as I could. My first impression when Greg gave the rifle to me, was how nice it looked. It really is a pretty rifle. His P308 is about as close as I could ask for, in terms of specs... same barrel length, same rate of twist, same chamber (7.62x51), Same stock... so, I was really looking forward to it.

Unfortunately, something was amiss with the rifle. It had been shot before, just not by me, or by Greg. So, it's very plausible that there was something wrong with the chamber... or the gas system.

The first thing I noticed, was when the bolt is locked to the rear, the operating rod is free to move. If you point the muzzle to the ground, then roll it up into the air, the operating rod slides down and strikes the bolt carrier. I didn't know if this was normal or not... and thought that maybe a spring or something was missing? So, Greg called POF and they said that it was normal.

I also made sure that the gas selector was on "N" for normal. I made sure the chamber was cleaned, the bore was clean... but, it just was not having it.

Here are my observations... and this is entirely subjective.

The POF "feels" lighter than my PWS... just by a smidge. I have not weighed it yet, but I will. I know my PWS weighs 12.7 pounds, fully kitted out.

The POF feels very "bulky" compared to my PWS... this is due to the raised sight rail, and the very bulky handguard on the POF. I am guessing this is so they can run a "floating tube" on the rifle? It's a nice touch, but at this barrel length, I don't think it's needed. My PWS does not have a floating tube, and I can't load the bipods enough to cause a noticeable change in POI. Not saying it can't be done, I just have not noticed it yet.

The POF definitely has a snappier / sharper recoil pulse. When it DID fire... I noticed that I was unable to keep the target in my reticle the same as I can with the PWS. Again, different piston system, different muzzle brake. The PWS has a PRC (Precision Rifle Compensator) and the POF does not.

The upper and lower on the POF are billet, as you all know. They have a nice shape to them... I do like the shape of the trigger guard, that to me, is the most attractive feature about it. The finish is very nice... I like the way it feels to the touch. However... I'm not one for shiny guns... that's just my own preference. So, if it were mine, I'd still paint it.

The PWS upper and lower is remarkably tighter than the POF. I know that the PWS upper / lower billet combination is matched as a set. This is most likely why the fit is so tight. The POF is easy to break down, the PWS is a bit tight.

My PWS has the Geissele SD-E trigger, and I have about 450 rounds through it so far... plus, I use the SD-E trigger in my White Oak, so I am very used to it.

The POF has a single stage trigger... not sure who makes it. It's a one piece drop in style, and the cage that holds the trigger is blue anodized aluminum. It has very minimal creep, breaks cleanly at I am guessing, between 3-4 pounds, with a VERY VERY VERY short reset. This POF would be VERY easy to shoot fast... that's for sure. I would just have to get used to the recoil pulse.

So... that's it in a nutshell. I will get the POF back when it comes back from the factory... and continue this again.

All in all, it seems to be a solid platform... but, the issue with the malfunctions worries me a bit. This is not the first time I have heard... "POF... when the run, they shoot very well... WHEN they run."

Again, I had heard that... so, I tried to clear my mind when I got this weapon... only to have four issues out of twenty rounds. To me, that shook my confidence a bit. We will see how it does when it comes back.

Cheers!
 
#22
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The POF has a single stage trigger... not sure who makes it. It's a one piece drop in style, and the cage that holds the trigger is blue anodized aluminum. It has very minimal creep, breaks cleanly at I am guessing, between 3-4 pounds, with a VERY VERY VERY short reset. This POF would be VERY easy to shoot fast... that's for sure. I would just have to get used to the recoil pulse.
</div></div>

The trigger group in the version you have is the Timney TITS, I'm not sure what that stands for but I will be getting the same model as this P308 you tried out but mine will have a 20" barrel. Thanks for trying man, still a good write up I just wish she had worked for you.
 
#23
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

I had the same issues with my 20” 7.62 POF when new. It went back to the factory for a whole new BCG and charging handle. They also cleaned and polished the chamber because they had issues with their heat treating process and how it was cleaned afterward a while back. My rifle is a 09’ “vintage”. It looks like the one you have in the pic may by an 09’ also (the rail is different now). Cody at POF put a whole bunch of different rounds (100 total, 4-5 different kinds through it) and shipped it back to me. No problems. They only had it one day and paid for shipping in both directions.

I was a bit bummed out when I first got it also. I obviously want to like the rifle a lot. That being said when I get it back if it won’t eat everything I feed it for at least 1000rds without cleaning its getting sold and I’m getting a LMT.
 
#25
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Judging from the serial # on mine it is an 09. We'll see how mine goes. I'm at least two weeks from getting it. </div></div>
Well in a week I'll be able to tell you if it is running like it should now.

I'm thinking if I knew the camber could have been an issue for the 09' vintage units and I had two weeks before I was going to pick it up I would ask the shop to have it inspected/repaired by POF. No skin off the shops back aside from packing it up. POF is obviously standing behind their product.
 
#26
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

Shot the P308 today maybe 160 rounds thru it and not a single hiccup....which was great considering all the problems we are experiencing.
I used some old 1982 army 7.62 in green bandoleers (75) and some 150gr Remington UMC.
 
#27
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redirt78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Angry_Pirate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe the POF just needs some more rounds through it?</div></div>I'm pretty sure he was ready to feed it all she wanted, but it was not hungry.</div></div>

ya keep feedin it! and feeding it and feeding it and feeding it.
 
#28
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fasteddie44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shot the P308 today maybe 160 rounds thru it and not a single hiccup....which was great considering all the problems we are experiencing.
I used some old 1982 army 7.62 in green bandoleers (75) and some 150gr Remington UMC. </div></div>Cool, did you get one of the 20" NP3 P308's from Frankie Ice's group buy? If so, mine is coming from the same batch.
 
#30
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

When I received a verbal report from DMACK I contacted POF and spoke to them. I was told that this was not an issue of needing a breakin period, that this weapon needed to be sent back and the problem WOULD BE FIXED. I was also told there would be a 2 day turn around upon receipt. I will follow up asap and return the weapon POF and return it to DMACK for ANOTHER SHOT if he is a GO!
 
#33
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

This post is a follow up to mostly address the FTE and stove-piping issues the OP had with the POF P308 that was used in this comparison test.
I'm the current owner of this rifle and have put approx. 300 rounds through thus far. Mostly Prvi Partisan 168 gr match HPBT but also 40 rounds of Hornaday Tap FPD 168 gr ballistic tip using a steel DMPS and a Magpul Pmag.
With the initial plan of using this rifle in CQB role, I zeroed it in at 100 yds with a Eotech 522 using a table and bench. I just used my gun bag as a substitute for sandbags to support the rifle. Bear in mind that I'm just an average recreational shooter with poor eyesight, but at this distance I was getting 2 MOA groupings. I had heard that POF's were well-known for great accuracy, so slapped on a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 6.5-20x50, zeroed it, and fired off a few rounds. The here-say is true because I was making keyholes at 100 yards.
Of these 300 rounds I did not have even one FTE, FTF, or stove-piping issues, so I'm scratching my head at why the OP was having those particular issues. I had cleaned the rifle to USMC drill instructor standards the night before I shot it. I'm not sure if that had any affect on it. Maybe it did. My only guess would be that the rifle just needed to be broken in a little.
I'm going to pick up some FGMM ammo that the OP was using and shoot it again to verify if it was just that particular ammo he was using. I will re-post afterwards with my results.
 
#34
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

I'm glad to hear the P308 is running well for you. I reported my findings accurately, with pictures. There were five personnel standing around me that all noticed it.

I do not know the round count through that rifle, but can attest to what it did for me. I was disappointed that I didn't get to really run that gun through our course of fire.

Best of luck with that rifle... I hear they are good shooters. I know my PWS MK214 definitely is.
 
#35
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

^I saw the proof(images) of that day at the range. There's no doubt in mind it happened so I'm determined to find it's failure point. That way I can fix whatever is wrong with it. After-all what good is a weapon if it isn't reliable.
When I brought it home I noticed that the stock castle nut was loose while cleaning it. I just recently picked up a stock wrench to tighten it down. Do you think that might have had something to do with it?
I'm guessing that the loose receiver extension/buffer tube wasn't allowing the BCG cycle properly.
I do appreciate your OP and will follow up with you if I'm able to reproduce the same malfunctions.
 
#36
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

I never noticed the castle nut being loose, but its possible. I did see some wear marks on the buffer tube, and I brought that to Greg's attention. Once you get it tight it should run ok. I also noticed that the operating rod rattles free in the upper... I could not get used to that sound. I can also tell you that the POF has substantial recoil compared to the PWS... I found that very interesting.
 
#37
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

Get my phone number from Greg, and give me a call. I would love to have you out the next time we shoot. Bring that POF out and shoot with us!!!

I'd love to see how it runs next to my PWS... like I said, I was bummed, because I really wanted to stretch that P308 out and smack some steel at distance.

Cheers,

DMack
 
#39
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: acenoel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive been Waiting for about 10 weeks for a new POF 308 20" to come up for sale! Why are they so hard to come buy?? </div></div>

I know where there are two brand new ones on a dealers wall that he is selling at cost because they have been in stock for too long (2yrs). I think one is $2450 and the other is just a little more or less than that. Sure beats the $3100 retail. PM me if your interested and I'll pass on their info.
 
#40
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

I had been eyeing a 14.5" p308 for a couple years, however the reports on these things are so inconsistent (like the reports above), I just lost interest all together. Figured if I wanted an AR10'ish rifle that would cost ~$2500 then I would look else ware.
 
#41
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c4xplsv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had been eyeing a 14.5" p308 for a couple years, however the reports on these things are so inconsistent (like the reports above), I just lost interest all together. Figured if I wanted an AR10'ish rifle that would cost ~$2500 then I would look else ware. </div></div>
I had some issues with sticking cases when I first got mine but POF took care of it right away. While POF was taking care of it I started shopping for an alternative AR10. I found that you could find someone that had problems with just about all the platforms.

Now my POF runs whatever I put in it like a fright train, I’m not shopping for a replacement anymore.
 
#42
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

I think the moral of the story here is that more expensive ARs are no less prone to reliability issues than the lower priced models...

begs the question "WTF are you overpaying for?"
 
#43
Re: PWS MK214 and POF P308 Together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: c4xplsv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had been eyeing a 14.5" p308 for a couple years, however the reports on these things are so inconsistent (like the reports above), I just lost interest all together. Figured if I wanted an AR10'ish rifle that would cost ~$2500 then I would look else ware. </div></div>

You're not going to find an AR based rifle without issues, regardless of whose name is on it. That goes for POF, LWRC, KAC, BCM, Armalite, and all of the rest not mentioned with the exception of a GAP-10 because it's custom built.

You're going to have bad apples in everything.

I've been fortunate enough that I haven't had a single issue with either of my P308's but if you look around the WWW, you'll find people who had nothing but headaches and the same can be said of other manufacturers as well. What separates the men from the boys is how quickly their tech/customer support is on getting the problem rectified and the firearm back to its owner.
 
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