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Q on throat life for 7mm's
- Thread starter MicronuT
- Start date
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
they are all similar the best will be the SAUM followed by the WSM then the Rem Mag. just get the rifle you want and shoot it. depending on how hard you drive it you will get from 2000 to 3000 out of each of them it also comes down to the barrel and how hard it is and how well it holds together.
I have 2 Rem SAUM's and they seem to match the WSM with a lot less powder the 7mm rem Mag uses more powder again and in the same barrel lenght gets close to the smae velocity as the case is longer to the effective barrel length is slightly shorter.
With any of the is you are going to use 175-180gr projectiles try retumbo first and then H1000 as a second choice for lighter bullets H1000 works well.
they are all similar the best will be the SAUM followed by the WSM then the Rem Mag. just get the rifle you want and shoot it. depending on how hard you drive it you will get from 2000 to 3000 out of each of them it also comes down to the barrel and how hard it is and how well it holds together.
I have 2 Rem SAUM's and they seem to match the WSM with a lot less powder the 7mm rem Mag uses more powder again and in the same barrel lenght gets close to the smae velocity as the case is longer to the effective barrel length is slightly shorter.
With any of the is you are going to use 175-180gr projectiles try retumbo first and then H1000 as a second choice for lighter bullets H1000 works well.
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
thank you for the response. 175's-180's is exactly what im lookin to push.
wild b, how fast are you pushing them?
and, is there a big difference in throat erosion, with these, compared with a 300 win?
thank you for the response. 175's-180's is exactly what im lookin to push.
wild b, how fast are you pushing them?
and, is there a big difference in throat erosion, with these, compared with a 300 win?
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
i am pushing the 175gr matchKings around 2800 in a 22" barrel and in a long throated 7mm Rem SAUM just under 3100fps in a 30" barrel and Retumbe. i generaly use a 168 at 2900 in the short action though as the powder capacity is severly reduced loaded to 2.800" in a model7 but with a longer mag on a short action like a seekins or a long action the rifle can be throated out and using Retumbe and a 26" barrel 3000 fps is there in all of the above cartriges. also a 9 twist is fine if you are looking at twists.
i am pushing the 175gr matchKings around 2800 in a 22" barrel and in a long throated 7mm Rem SAUM just under 3100fps in a 30" barrel and Retumbe. i generaly use a 168 at 2900 in the short action though as the powder capacity is severly reduced loaded to 2.800" in a model7 but with a longer mag on a short action like a seekins or a long action the rifle can be throated out and using Retumbe and a 26" barrel 3000 fps is there in all of the above cartriges. also a 9 twist is fine if you are looking at twists.
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
what kind of bc are we lookin at with a 168 in a shortie?
i guess the best way to go is a long action. would it be plausible to use aics mags? what i had in mind is, a long action ai chassis. has anyone done this?
what kind of bc are we lookin at with a 168 in a shortie?
i guess the best way to go is a long action. would it be plausible to use aics mags? what i had in mind is, a long action ai chassis. has anyone done this?
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
BC is not affected by the COAL. The 168's are excellent bullets and so are the 162 Amax's.
Long actions for the SAUM and WSM's have been done, although I can't answer how the AI mags would run them.
BC is not affected by the COAL. The 168's are excellent bullets and so are the 162 Amax's.
Long actions for the SAUM and WSM's have been done, although I can't answer how the AI mags would run them.
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
My chance, I inherited a air of .280 Rem's (AKA 7mm Remington Express), identical rifles (Ruger 77 MKI's) with a lighter sporter barrel on one, and a relatively scarce varmint barrel on the other.
I am a fan of the .260 and the degree of improved performance it brings to the .308 parent cartridge's capacity. Likewise, a admire the .30-'06 and consider the .280 to be somewhat of a 7mm verion of an analogue to the .260.
As throat life goes, I'm guessing similar or better than the magnums.
BTW, both do very nicely with Hornady Custom 139SST's factory loads. I've obtained some factory primed nickel Win brass and 120gr Nosler Ballistc tips, and plan to do some load development using H4350. The first of these and the 139's all provide very repectable energy with far more tolerable recoil.
Greg
My chance, I inherited a air of .280 Rem's (AKA 7mm Remington Express), identical rifles (Ruger 77 MKI's) with a lighter sporter barrel on one, and a relatively scarce varmint barrel on the other.
I am a fan of the .260 and the degree of improved performance it brings to the .308 parent cartridge's capacity. Likewise, a admire the .30-'06 and consider the .280 to be somewhat of a 7mm verion of an analogue to the .260.
As throat life goes, I'm guessing similar or better than the magnums.
BTW, both do very nicely with Hornady Custom 139SST's factory loads. I've obtained some factory primed nickel Win brass and 120gr Nosler Ballistc tips, and plan to do some load development using H4350. The first of these and the 139's all provide very repectable energy with far more tolerable recoil.
Greg
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MicronuT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ill start a new thread and ask here,
and i think for me it will come down to barrel life...
tia
</div></div>
Get a 223 or 308 if barrel life is on your mind..
If you beat a Big 7MM hard ,15 to 20 rounds per string 2000 rounds is doable ,Baby it 3 to 5 rounds per string it may just last a Long Long time.
honestly any of the above rounds you look at will be within burn out + or - a couple rounds of each other,Another thing is what is barrel burn out to you ? 1/2 MOA or 1.5 MOA and so forth.
BR shooter will scrap a good barrel to us(me) tactical shooters,Just saying different shooters have different ideas on what burn out is and what that point is normally is in MOA of some degree.
I think the barrel material and cleaning method may have more to do with which will burn out first.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MicronuT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ill start a new thread and ask here,
and i think for me it will come down to barrel life...
tia
</div></div>
Get a 223 or 308 if barrel life is on your mind..
If you beat a Big 7MM hard ,15 to 20 rounds per string 2000 rounds is doable ,Baby it 3 to 5 rounds per string it may just last a Long Long time.
honestly any of the above rounds you look at will be within burn out + or - a couple rounds of each other,Another thing is what is barrel burn out to you ? 1/2 MOA or 1.5 MOA and so forth.
BR shooter will scrap a good barrel to us(me) tactical shooters,Just saying different shooters have different ideas on what burn out is and what that point is normally is in MOA of some degree.
I think the barrel material and cleaning method may have more to do with which will burn out first.
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
Any 7 mahg or short mag is going to cause hell on the throat. My 7WSM has about 450 rounds through it and the throat has moved forward .030" already. My advice is to build whatever 7mm rifle you want, break in the barrel, clean it and send it out to be melonited (only costs $60 to melonite a barrel) without being melonited, I will not build another 7 mag/short mag again.
Any 7 mahg or short mag is going to cause hell on the throat. My 7WSM has about 450 rounds through it and the throat has moved forward .030" already. My advice is to build whatever 7mm rifle you want, break in the barrel, clean it and send it out to be melonited (only costs $60 to melonite a barrel) without being melonited, I will not build another 7 mag/short mag again.
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
I wouldn't get too wrapped up on the throat. Mine moved around .080 thou within the first 1200 rounds. I just stopped measuring and just shot the rifle. If it's still shooting, who cares how long the throat is.
The 7 Magnums, you should be able to expect 2-3k rounds down the tube before needing to setback or put a new one on. Benchrest accuracy, who knows maybe a lot less. I don't shoot benchrest so I don't care. I'm right at 2900 rounds down my WSM and it shot fine for the past couple of weeks... at distance that is. It's been a while since I brought it to the 100 yard line to do any kind of group shots. I might do it soon. I only have about 500 bullets left from one batch and have another barrel coming in soon so I might test it out before sending the rifle off to get a new barrel.
I wouldn't get too wrapped up on the throat. Mine moved around .080 thou within the first 1200 rounds. I just stopped measuring and just shot the rifle. If it's still shooting, who cares how long the throat is.
The 7 Magnums, you should be able to expect 2-3k rounds down the tube before needing to setback or put a new one on. Benchrest accuracy, who knows maybe a lot less. I don't shoot benchrest so I don't care. I'm right at 2900 rounds down my WSM and it shot fine for the past couple of weeks... at distance that is. It's been a while since I brought it to the 100 yard line to do any kind of group shots. I might do it soon. I only have about 500 bullets left from one batch and have another barrel coming in soon so I might test it out before sending the rifle off to get a new barrel.
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
My 1996 Nosler loading manual states that because the .280 can deliver both good velocities and good accuracy it is the caliber they use for 7mm bullet testing. Generally they seldom look beyond IMR-4831 or RL-19 as propellants.
I intend exploring the 58-60gr(C*) range with H4831, and 56-58gr(C*) range with H4350 and the Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tip. Velocities in the 3275-3300fps range may be possible. If so they should arrive at 1Kyd with velocities just above the supersonic threshold, and do it at below 1000ft altitude.
Greg
My 1996 Nosler loading manual states that because the .280 can deliver both good velocities and good accuracy it is the caliber they use for 7mm bullet testing. Generally they seldom look beyond IMR-4831 or RL-19 as propellants.
I intend exploring the 58-60gr(C*) range with H4831, and 56-58gr(C*) range with H4350 and the Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tip. Velocities in the 3275-3300fps range may be possible. If so they should arrive at 1Kyd with velocities just above the supersonic threshold, and do it at below 1000ft altitude.
Greg
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
thanks for everyones input,
asm, you do bring up a good point. i dont plan to beat it hard, im thinking 5 rnd strings. and if im going out to the 1k mark, 2moa or worse would not be tolerable.
i do have a couple 308's as is, but am looking for something alot flatter, and i didnt wana re barrel after 1000 rnds. which was told to me in a conversation i had with someone, it just sounded way too bad, so i had to confirm here. id be happy with 2000k at minimal, which sounds doable for the most part. it will be thrown out of a krieger.
i am also considering 300 win. is throat life, about the same as the 7mm's? or is it better due to the larger diameter?
thanks for everyones input,
asm, you do bring up a good point. i dont plan to beat it hard, im thinking 5 rnd strings. and if im going out to the 1k mark, 2moa or worse would not be tolerable.
i do have a couple 308's as is, but am looking for something alot flatter, and i didnt wana re barrel after 1000 rnds. which was told to me in a conversation i had with someone, it just sounded way too bad, so i had to confirm here. id be happy with 2000k at minimal, which sounds doable for the most part. it will be thrown out of a krieger.
i am also considering 300 win. is throat life, about the same as the 7mm's? or is it better due to the larger diameter?
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
Man Go 7mm ! throw some 180 vlds in there 2900 or so a don't look back,Dont get me wrong I do love a 30cal magnum,but a 7mm ass stomps it at long range..
You treet if right a 7mm magnum type will last way past 2000 rounds..
Man Go 7mm ! throw some 180 vlds in there 2900 or so a don't look back,Dont get me wrong I do love a 30cal magnum,but a 7mm ass stomps it at long range..
You treet if right a 7mm magnum type will last way past 2000 rounds..
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
Two sort of off topic questions about 7mm. Can a 7mm Wsm mag fit into a Badger M5 that was orginally a .308 M5 or can it use .308 mags? And how is the winchester 7mm WSM brass it seems like a great price?
Two sort of off topic questions about 7mm. Can a 7mm Wsm mag fit into a Badger M5 that was orginally a .308 M5 or can it use .308 mags? And how is the winchester 7mm WSM brass it seems like a great price?
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two sort of off topic questions about 7mm. Can a 7mm Wsm mag fit into a Badger M5 that was orginally a .308 M5 or can it use .308 mags? And how is the winchester 7mm WSM brass it seems like a great price? </div></div>
those are also questions i have... i wana fit it in a 2.0
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two sort of off topic questions about 7mm. Can a 7mm Wsm mag fit into a Badger M5 that was orginally a .308 M5 or can it use .308 mags? And how is the winchester 7mm WSM brass it seems like a great price? </div></div>
those are also questions i have... i wana fit it in a 2.0
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
You can use AccurateMag WSM mags to feed 7WSM, they have a 2,950" OAL, or you can contact US Optics and order thier MORTA mag without the spacer plate, same OAL. Both will feed from AICS and Badger M5, but you will need to have the feed ramp notched by a smith, very easy to do, taked 5 minuted to do it.
You can use AccurateMag WSM mags to feed 7WSM, they have a 2,950" OAL, or you can contact US Optics and order thier MORTA mag without the spacer plate, same OAL. Both will feed from AICS and Badger M5, but you will need to have the feed ramp notched by a smith, very easy to do, taked 5 minuted to do it.
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two sort of off topic questions about 7mm. Can a 7mm Wsm mag fit into a Badger M5 that was orginally a .308 M5 or can it use .308 mags? And how is the winchester 7mm WSM brass it seems like a great price? </div></div>
It's pretty standard issue to modify the 308 mags to fit the WSM. The front plate will have to be taken out and the lips will have to be widen for proper feeding. I have heard stories of Accurate and Morta mags not feeding correctly. There isn't a huge price difference between the 3, so I am going to use what works. As for brass, it's hit or miss. I have about 500 pieces of brass but only use 200 in circulation and those have been reloaded at least 14 times. While my friend just got a new batch of 300 WSM brass and the rim of the cases on a lot of them were all galled up and was hard to extract.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two sort of off topic questions about 7mm. Can a 7mm Wsm mag fit into a Badger M5 that was orginally a .308 M5 or can it use .308 mags? And how is the winchester 7mm WSM brass it seems like a great price? </div></div>
It's pretty standard issue to modify the 308 mags to fit the WSM. The front plate will have to be taken out and the lips will have to be widen for proper feeding. I have heard stories of Accurate and Morta mags not feeding correctly. There isn't a huge price difference between the 3, so I am going to use what works. As for brass, it's hit or miss. I have about 500 pieces of brass but only use 200 in circulation and those have been reloaded at least 14 times. While my friend just got a new batch of 300 WSM brass and the rim of the cases on a lot of them were all galled up and was hard to extract.
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can use AccurateMag WSM mags to feed 7WSM, they have a 2,950" OAL, or you can contact US Optics and order thier MORTA mag without the spacer plate, same OAL. Both will feed from AICS and Badger M5, but you will need to have the feed ramp notched by a smith, very easy to do, taked 5 minuted to do it. </div></div>
what about fitting a wsm into a long action aics? how well would that work?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can use AccurateMag WSM mags to feed 7WSM, they have a 2,950" OAL, or you can contact US Optics and order thier MORTA mag without the spacer plate, same OAL. Both will feed from AICS and Badger M5, but you will need to have the feed ramp notched by a smith, very easy to do, taked 5 minuted to do it. </div></div>
what about fitting a wsm into a long action aics? how well would that work?
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two sort of off topic questions about 7mm. Can a 7mm Wsm mag fit into a Badger M5 that was orginally a .308 M5 or can it use .308 mags? And how is the winchester 7mm WSM brass it seems like a great price? </div></div>
It's pretty standard issue to modify the 308 mags to fit the WSM. The front plate will have to be taken out and the lips will have to be widen for proper feeding. I have heard stories of Accurate and Morta mags not feeding correctly. There isn't a huge price difference between the 3, so I am going to use what works. As for brass, it's hit or miss. I have about 500 pieces of brass but only use 200 in circulation and those have been reloaded at least 14 times. While my friend just got a new batch of 300 WSM brass and the rim of the cases on a lot of them were all galled up and was hard to extract. </div></div>
How does using the AI modified mags work? Like the ones surgeon uses?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Two sort of off topic questions about 7mm. Can a 7mm Wsm mag fit into a Badger M5 that was orginally a .308 M5 or can it use .308 mags? And how is the winchester 7mm WSM brass it seems like a great price? </div></div>
It's pretty standard issue to modify the 308 mags to fit the WSM. The front plate will have to be taken out and the lips will have to be widen for proper feeding. I have heard stories of Accurate and Morta mags not feeding correctly. There isn't a huge price difference between the 3, so I am going to use what works. As for brass, it's hit or miss. I have about 500 pieces of brass but only use 200 in circulation and those have been reloaded at least 14 times. While my friend just got a new batch of 300 WSM brass and the rim of the cases on a lot of them were all galled up and was hard to extract. </div></div>
How does using the AI modified mags work? Like the ones surgeon uses?
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
I have 0 issues with the modified mags. I believe Surgeon uses AI mags too.
I have 0 issues with the modified mags. I believe Surgeon uses AI mags too.
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
How easy does that front plate come out of the AI mags, they appear to be tac welded in.....maybe not???
How easy does that front plate come out of the AI mags, they appear to be tac welded in.....maybe not???
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
They have to be drilled out. I have used AccurateMag WSM mags, took only 10 minutes to get the feed lips right to feed WSM rounds out of it. And no plate to be removed since the WSM mag doesnt come with the plate. Or contact Surgeon to see if they have any AI mags with the plate already removed.
They have to be drilled out. I have used AccurateMag WSM mags, took only 10 minutes to get the feed lips right to feed WSM rounds out of it. And no plate to be removed since the WSM mag doesnt come with the plate. Or contact Surgeon to see if they have any AI mags with the plate already removed.
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They have to be drilled out. I have used AccurateMag WSM mags, took only 10 minutes to get the feed lips right to feed WSM rounds out of it. And no plate to be removed since the WSM mag doesnt come with the plate. Or contact Surgeon to see if they have any AI mags with the plate already removed. </div></div>
do u have any knowledge of this feeding reliably out of a long action with mag?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They have to be drilled out. I have used AccurateMag WSM mags, took only 10 minutes to get the feed lips right to feed WSM rounds out of it. And no plate to be removed since the WSM mag doesnt come with the plate. Or contact Surgeon to see if they have any AI mags with the plate already removed. </div></div>
do u have any knowledge of this feeding reliably out of a long action with mag?
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
You may have to tweak the feed lips, but yes, it will feed out of a LA AICS. Some reports say that its better to use 338LM mags instead of 300WM for WSM feeding.
You may have to tweak the feed lips, but yes, it will feed out of a LA AICS. Some reports say that its better to use 338LM mags instead of 300WM for WSM feeding.
Re: Q on throat life for 7mm's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may have to tweak the feed lips, but yes, it will feed out of a LA AICS. Some reports say that its better to use 338LM mags instead of 300WM for WSM feeding. </div></div>
ic, and the LM mag will fit in the regular l/a chassis i take it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may have to tweak the feed lips, but yes, it will feed out of a LA AICS. Some reports say that its better to use 338LM mags instead of 300WM for WSM feeding. </div></div>
ic, and the LM mag will fit in the regular l/a chassis i take it?
