Question about.22lr competition build
- Thread starter mberlin74
- Start date
Accuracy International AT-X AICS, this is a RimX but my son in-laws Vudoo 360 runs and feeds flawlessly in his AT-X AICS
Shit I didn't even notice the rifle with ALL that awesome back ground!!
I have to say thanks to everyone that’s chimed in on this. I appreciate your opinions, your experience and the time you’ve all taken to think about and write out your replies. So thanks!
I’m starting to think that the MDT ACC Elite might be a better choice but not for reasons that you may think.
It’s always been in the running but as mentioned above, I do love the look of the MPA Pro chassis. The reason for the lean towards the ACC is to do with customer service.
Over the last few weeks I’ve left them 2 messages and sent 1 email and to this day I’ve not heard back. In my last message to them I politely mentioned that I’ve left a few messages and would really love someone to call me back. Still no reply.
When I called MDT (I’ve called them twice over the last few weeks, the phone was answered both times and the person I spoke to was SUPER helpful and happy to talk to me about everything. Now I know there are lots of variables here. More employees, less employees, very busy, not so busy etc etc. But I’m thinking about long term customer service and my experience with MPA (or lack there of) has left a bad taste in my mouth.
Anyway, thought I’d mention this in case maybe it’s just a fluke or perhaps some of you have had a similar experience?
It’s always been in the running but as mentioned above, I do love the look of the MPA Pro chassis. The reason for the lean towards the ACC is to do with customer service.
Over the last few weeks I’ve left them 2 messages and sent 1 email and to this day I’ve not heard back. In my last message to them I politely mentioned that I’ve left a few messages and would really love someone to call me back. Still no reply.
When I called MDT (I’ve called them twice over the last few weeks, the phone was answered both times and the person I spoke to was SUPER helpful and happy to talk to me about everything. Now I know there are lots of variables here. More employees, less employees, very busy, not so busy etc etc. But I’m thinking about long term customer service and my experience with MPA (or lack there of) has left a bad taste in my mouth.
Anyway, thought I’d mention this in case maybe it’s just a fluke or perhaps some of you have had a similar experience?
I've had some decent experiences with MPA's customer service. They're not the fastest to reply to emails but they've usually gotten back to me within 1-2 business days. However I did have to bug them a bit when I was trying to get a screw size to replace a missing screw for my NV bridge.
MDT's customer service for me has been amazing though as well. They've replied to all my inquires quickly, answered the phone, and even sent me new action screws free of charge when I picked up a second hand ACC that didn't come with them. Also gave me a free shipping coupon code when I called for the action screws and told them I was ordering a couple ACIS magazines.
I know this isn’t a Vudoo or an MTU barrel but it’s a 1.2” straight finished at 22”.
Installed in the chassis with no weights added and with a bipod attached it will balance a few inches in front of the mag well. The weight is 19 pounds 11 oz. Take the bipod off and it’ll get just a teeny tiny bit rear heavy. Still not bad.
I threw in a set of internal weights and a pair of external weights and it balances with and without a bipod about 2-3 inches in front of the mag well. The rifle is now 23 pounds and 5 oz. It’s around 21 and some change without the bipod.
Installed in the chassis with no weights added and with a bipod attached it will balance a few inches in front of the mag well. The weight is 19 pounds 11 oz. Take the bipod off and it’ll get just a teeny tiny bit rear heavy. Still not bad.
I threw in a set of internal weights and a pair of external weights and it balances with and without a bipod about 2-3 inches in front of the mag well. The rifle is now 23 pounds and 5 oz. It’s around 21 and some change without the bipod.
Thanks for the info. Do you think if you went with a 24” barrel it would have balanced at the mag well without weights?
Without a bipod I’m sure it’ll be good to go. The ass end on the Elite is heavy. However barrel profile might still matter.
I’m thinking of going with a Krieger MTU. I like the look of yours with the barrel just peeking out of the fore end but I think that if I went with a bit longer barrel I could hopefully get away with little to no weights. I read somewhere a while back that 18”-22” was optimal for the .22lr so hopefully going to a 23” 24” 25” etc. won’t start to negatively impact its performance.
I have a 20” and 22” barrels on my RimX and they hammer. My Curtis has a 23” Krieger and it also hammers. It’s pick your poison..
I have had a 18", 22" and 23" on my Vudoo and there is no negative impact. I have a 24" on order and not worried at all.
Hi mberlin74,
I've dealing with a similar set of decisions on barrel length and chassis.
I found this video to be very helpful regarding how barrel length impacts .22lr performance.
After seeing this, I'm planning to go even longer on my 1.2" straight Krieger barrel--between 24"-26" depending on where the gunsmith finds the best spot to finish it. My choice on chassis is still undetermined, though the short list includes MPA Matrix, MPA BA Comp, and the new MDT ACC Premier 2.0 when it launches. With the longer barrel, I figure I'm maximizing my chances to have it balance with minimal extra weights. Good luck with your decision!
Thanks for this. I’ll definitely give it a watch. Is there a reason the MDT ACC Elite is not on your list of chassis?
YMMV but I found 26” way too slow in colder temps. I know it’s going to vary barrel to barrel and lot to lot but I was seeing ~900 fps with the SK Match I was using at the time. Temps were in the 30’s.
YW! Yes, one very specific reason on excluding the Elite: for the life of me, I was trying to not end up choosing the absolute most expensive option for every part I was buying for the build.
lol! Glad that worked out for you. I unfortunately don’t have the same self control.YW! Yes, one very specific reason on excluding the Elite: for the life of me, I was trying to not end up choosing the absolute most expensive option for every part I was buying for the build.
Watched this video and it made lots of sense. Then YouTube auto generated the same topic video by the guys at Vudoo who from what I took from the video basically said 18”-20” was the optimal barrel length for .22lr. Sooooooo yeah. Still in limbo.
Sheesh, 900 fps?--wait... You shoot when it's 30 degrees??
I admire your dedication.Seriously though, I wouldn't have expected that much drop in velocity. Did you try that barrel with any other ammo to see if the SK match was a one-off? I guess if worse came to worse I could always have the barrel cut and re-crowned.
Didn't mean to hijack the thread.
HAHA! I needed at least one point that might help make the domestic negotiations over the expense sound like I was being responsible with our finances. "...and you see, it's not like I'm going with the most expensive options..."
Interesting! What was their criteria for "optimal?" Perhaps just velocity, or were they also considering ES and SD in groups?
Don’t get in analysis paralysis. Lots of PRS/NRL shooters use 22+ length barrels so don’t take one video as gospel.
This. And I'm prone to it, so reminders like this are important from people who know what they are talking about (meaning Rob, not me. I'm still trying to figure everything out). Thanks, Rob!
I should also add an additional factor unique to me, which is that my centerfire rifle has a 26" barrel + a brake, so in terms of handling, if I decide to start shooting centerfire PRS matches at some point, both rifles would be roughly the same length & weight.
If you want to explore deeper down the barrel length rabbit hole, this might be of interest:
Optimal 22LR Barrel Length
www.snipershide.com
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I can’t remember if I did. Been a while. I want to try a 24” barrel to satisfy my curiosity. But so far 22” has been my favorite length. Numbers have been very good and doesn’t take a miracle to balance. 23” hammers and balances as well. That said 20” shoots very well. So again pick your poison.Sheesh, 900 fps?--wait... You shoot when it's 30 degrees??
Seriously though, I wouldn't have expected that much drop in velocity. Did you try that barrel with any other ammo to see if the SK match was a one-off? I guess if worse came to worse I could always have the barrel cut and re-crowned.
Didn't mean to hijack the thread.
A lot has changed since this video (it's 4 years old). This more recent video from Vudoo talk about the more consistent velocities of ammo at longer lengths and obviously balance. This is why I picked a 24 inch.
Starting at 10:52
Videos are good resource but as mentioned you need to look at the dates. You will not be losing any substantial velocity with the 24" barrel. I have the same lot of SK Long Range and it's 1106fps in my 22" and 1100 in my 23" and both shoot it very accurately. A few feet per second. So don't stress the length and pic the contour you want and get it ordered.
I have an 18" Bergara, a CZ457 with a 20" custom IBI barrel, and a 24" Bartlein.
All have excellent accuracy, I've won multiple matches with every one of those rifles all using SK Long Range Match.
But my 24" Bartlein barrel is a hair better in the accuracy department, as well as producing better SDs. It isn't world's better than the other two, but good enough that it's the length I'll continue to buy.
Zeroing for a match in February in 28 degree weather, I was getting 1055fps from my 24" barrel. I won that match. In warmer weather I usually see it around 1080 to 1085fps.
All have excellent accuracy, I've won multiple matches with every one of those rifles all using SK Long Range Match.
But my 24" Bartlein barrel is a hair better in the accuracy department, as well as producing better SDs. It isn't world's better than the other two, but good enough that it's the length I'll continue to buy.
Zeroing for a match in February in 28 degree weather, I was getting 1055fps from my 24" barrel. I won that match. In warmer weather I usually see it around 1080 to 1085fps.
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I have noticed the same thing @Birddog6424 mentions with the SD's...I've ran 16" out to 24" barrels and the longer barrels seem to always produce a little better SD's...I had a CZ 455 trainer in a manners stock years ago, it came with a 24" barrel so I bought 16" and 20" barrels to see which shot the best...they all shot great but the 24" shot just a little better and the SD's were just a bit lower.
These are from my 22" Bartlein Vudoo...the 79 shots was actually 80 shots and was 40 rounds RWS 50 and 40 rounds SK long range match....34 shots were all RWS 50 and was actually 40 shots, missed 6 due to me moving around to much....personally I think a longer barrel produces better SD's.
These are from my 22" Bartlein Vudoo...the 79 shots was actually 80 shots and was 40 rounds RWS 50 and 40 rounds SK long range match....34 shots were all RWS 50 and was actually 40 shots, missed 6 due to me moving around to much....personally I think a longer barrel produces better SD's.
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22” barrel with Lapua Long Range at 68 degrees.
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That's good to know. Would you recommend against going even longer to a barrel length in the 24"-26" range?
My experience there is anecdotal. I know of two shooters running quality 26" barrels. They are very accurate and they seem to like them.
There is certainly some evidence to suggest they perform very well.
I know some guys with 25" and 26" barrels but for me that's kind of pushing it. If you wanted it for balance without wanting to add weights then it can work but I don't think you will be gaining anything accuracy wise.
Also, 26 inches is quite a bit a length to move around. You'll gain about 1/4 lb of weight for every inch you add (with a 1.20 straight).
Yeah, I'm only thinking of the extra length in terms of weight/balance, not accuracy at all--I just don't want to be costing myself accuracy either. Thank you, Rob!
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Yes!--That's part of my plan to also get ripped while I'm shooting matches. I can say, "I lifted weights all day today..."
On a serious note, I have a centerfire rifle that has a 26" barrel, and if I decide to also take up shooting centerfire PRS at some point, I'll already be used to the handling characteristics of that heft and length around the barricades with the rimfire. Again, as long as I'm not moving into detrimental territory moving past 24". But the barrel hasn't arrived yet, so I'm still very open to hearing the wisdom of others--as long as it's also helpful for mberlin24, since it's really his thread. Thanks, Mark.
Very helpful! This is all good info and it’s helped a lot. I’ve now got the chassis decided and pretty sure I’m going with a length of 24”. I’m just trying to decide between a Krieger and a Benchmark barrel. The Krieger is less expensive and saving some money at this point would be good but I have a Benchmark on my 6.5 and it’s been good.Yes!--That's part of my plan to also get ripped while I'm shooting matches. I can say, "I lifted weights all day today..."
On a serious note, I have a centerfire rifle that has a 26" barrel, and if I decide to also take up shooting centerfire PRS at some point, I'll already be used to the handling characteristics of that heft and length around the barricades with the rimfire. Again, as long as I'm not moving into detrimental territory moving past 24". But the barrel hasn't arrived yet, so I'm still very open to hearing the wisdom of others--as long as it's also helpful for mberlin24, since it's really his thread. Thanks, Mark.
Great!--Which chassis did you decide on? I went with the Krieger barrel. From my reading through some of the forums and talking to guys who had rifles built for PRS rimfire, none of them had anything bad to say about Krieger barrels.
Yes!--That's part of my plan to also get ripped while I'm shooting matches. I can say, "I lifted weights all day today..."
On a serious note, I have a centerfire rifle that has a 26" barrel, and if I decide to also take up shooting centerfire PRS at some point, I'll already be used to the handling characteristics of that heft and length around the barricades with the rimfire. Again, as long as I'm not moving into detrimental territory moving past 24". But the barrel hasn't arrived yet, so I'm still very open to hearing the wisdom of others--as long as it's also helpful for mberlin24, since it's really his thread. Thanks, Mark.
I feel like that's a solid idea as you're kind of doubling it as a trainer. Something to keep in mind (I could be wrong on this though), but I think rimfire barrels are typically an inch shorter (in protrusion) than centerfire barrels because of how much shorter the bolt is. So your 26 inch barrel will feel more like a 25 inch in length, but weight should be the same.
Decided on the ACC Elite and pretty sure in the Titanium Blue with a grey action and barrel.
I have 22" on my Vudoo set in MPA comp, sometimes I wish it were a little longer just for the feel, since both my 6x47 PRS rifle and .223 bolt rifle both have 26" barrels.
When I was a youth I shot a lot of NRA .22 indoor, our club had Winchester 52 target rifles. I'm trying to remember how long/diameter those barrels were, maybe 26"? Talk about front end heavy
My first Vudoo had 18" barrel, shot great but very rear heavy.
When I was a youth I shot a lot of NRA .22 indoor, our club had Winchester 52 target rifles. I'm trying to remember how long/diameter those barrels were, maybe 26"? Talk about front end heavy
My first Vudoo had 18" barrel, shot great but very rear heavy.
my immature self couldn't help it.
