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Question about sports cars / capabilities
- Thread starter Mike_Honcho
- Start date
When I instruct at track days, my first question is if they've ever autocrossed. Almost always they say, "No, but I've done this track 1,000 times on Forza". Okay... the video games do actually help some in teaching them the track, but that's about it. If they've done autocross, they know how to sense the limits of their car MUCH BETTER. I tell them, before you come back to a track day, go do autocross and thrash it. Blue tape your car if you're worried about scratches and cone rubs but you need to be the ass that knocks cones down until you figure out where you and your car sync. The very few that do come back end up getting advanced by me toot sweet because they've developed a relationship with their car... not just a relationship with their ego.
I was a valet in school and crashed one of those on accident because his floor mat bunched up on the gas pedal.
I miss goin' fast. These threads are great, but... memories.
A quote that always stuck with me- "never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time"
or, the more apt- "crashing sucks, you always land on your wallet"
A quote that always stuck with me- "never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time"
or, the more apt- "crashing sucks, you always land on your wallet"
i thought i could be a race driver when i was a kid, like speed racer. no real experience or connection to any kind of real racing.
but then i went to the long beach grand prix when i was a teenager (before the double fencing) and when i saw a car go past me at 200 mph from less than 10 feet away, i realized i probably didn't have the nuts for it.
but then i went to the long beach grand prix when i was a teenager (before the double fencing) and when i saw a car go past me at 200 mph from less than 10 feet away, i realized i probably didn't have the nuts for it.
You haven't lived until you ride along in one with the tires barking through the corner and bounce off the limiter at 135.
The chargers would lift the inside rear tire so long as you didn't find gravel.
The road engineers were responsible for the reduced speed corners are calculating how many G's an average car will pull through in shitty weather. As the math shows, as the corner gets tighter the G's required to stick at higher speeds can go up in a hurry. 2 corners marked at 45, one may only be 60 before you're in the guard rail while the next you could do 90.
I'm a private pilot. I've had people tell me flying is easy/I can jump on a 172 and fly it because they play some flight sim at home all the time.
I just smile.........…...
Yep, you're dating yourself - no more R-compound tires in Stock class (now called "Street") unless you're running SSR.
All the cool kids are off playing in the Street Touring classes, anyways (or at least they were at the last regional event I attended). Us knuckledraggers are found in CAM, trying to figure out how to best apply 750 HP to the surface of a parking lot through 200 treadwear tires.
AutoX is indeed awesome - it presents low risk to the vehicle and operator, and teaches transient car control at practical speeds. I honestly prefer running on the track since the higher speeds require some additional skills. A steady diet of both would make for a fairly well-rounded pavement driver.
The SCCA Solo handbook is an amusing read. It's hilarious that the Olds Cutlass Calais W-41 is still banned from the Street class after 30 years
I can make my 2017 Golf GTI step out on command too. The key is a thick rear sway bar - 26mm H&R with a smaller bar up front. I'm also running Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2's with 350 whp on E30. The understeer drove me crazy in that car but now it's slightly rear-end happy which is great for autocross, canyons, and track, but requires a little bit of focus on the road when cornering.
That guy is such an annoying cunt. I've never made it past min 2 of any of his videos
I built a 1996 Impala SS about 20 years ago that had some decent power (for the time, at least - courtesy of a 396 stroker), 6-speed T56 manual trans, and suspension mods - stiffer and shorter springs, stiffer bushings, fat front bar, and a monster 38mm rear sway bar. Yep - a full 1.5" of solid steel across the rear axle. It managed to make that pig feel somewhat agile around an autoX course, but it actually did more harm than good in terms of actual times because it was so stiff that it would unload the inside rear tire, and that's no good when it represented half of the available forward grip when trying to exit a corner (but Posi!!!, someone will say - and yeah, it had a stout Eaton limited slip, but that didn't magically make grip appear from the tire that's barely kissing the pavement).
Obviously, that's not an issue with your FWD car, but it's the sort of thing that's worth considering when making changes to a car - does this actually help the car go faster, or does it just feel that way? There's nothing wrong with the latter; in fact, the obsession with lap times isn't necessarily the healthiest thing for enthusiasts. But it's easy to get fooled in absence of objective data (or in my case, when the data is simply ignored).
It's not ideal for sure, but it's control at least on my setup.
That's a great point, there are too many parts out there that boost the "butt dyno" and have no actual effect, seem even decrease power.
I used to run time trial with NASA, was an instructor for a few years. Then the guys with water cooled wallets came in with sequintial trannys and such and it got to expensive to keep up. Sure miss it..
Chasing a p car gettin brake ckecked and pissed. That was my best time for that era, got into the mid 1:30s later. Loved that track.
Texas World Speedway RIP..
<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/23162329" width="640" height="424" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; fullscreen; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<p><a href="">THE BATTLE OF TTU</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/user6307424">JVetthead</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
Chasing a p car gettin brake ckecked and pissed. That was my best time for that era, got into the mid 1:30s later. Loved that track.
Texas World Speedway RIP..
<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/23162329" width="640" height="424" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; fullscreen; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<p><a href="">THE BATTLE OF TTU</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/user6307424">JVetthead</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
Well I’d tell you, while I love the air cooled cars( my last was 97 C4S) , there’s really no comparison to what’s out there these days.That's why I cannot warm up to these Porsche's with no dry-sump (yes, I know..."it's integrated now."). May Metzger's engines reign supreme
I remember watching 944's spin bearings all the time on #2 because of oil starvation. They seem to have solved that in the 968; but then again, there were not a lot of those in USA let alone the track.
I’ve come close on more than one occasion to pulling the trigger on a GT3 RS but I just cannot wrap my head around how freaking big these things have become.
Now, lucky enough to have a GT4 which is an absolute phenom. I ‘ve owned some supercars and this thing is the best car, head to tow, I’ve ever driven.
Believe me, I know from a performance standpoint the GT4 is the best car Porsche makes until you get the GT3 (or GT3R); however, there is no comparison with the amount of talent needed to drive a torsion bar 911 vs anything "new." My opinion of course. All new Porsche's are MONSTERS in size, and the 911 is indeed huge. If somebody can drive a 911 with a 915 or 901 gearbox fast, one should about guarantee they can drive most anything fast. Even better is a short-wheelbase 911!!!! Appreciation for that skill is non-existent out at tracks and it's sad...it's all about who's got the most money now (more than in the past). As such, I have little desire to do track events now...much like shooting has become...all about the $$$ spent. The last frontier seems to be adventure bikes which is quickly losing it's charm as well.
Boomers...gotta spend their money now before they end up in the old folks home.
Torsion bar cars are great if you knew what you’re doing, owned a 78 930 for years and a 62 roadster, great, nimble car.
I was lucky enough to watch Hurley Haywood hustle the early Brumos 911’s around the Glen acouple times. Even vintage shit below 10/10ths it was amazing to see flying through some of those corners.
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I've taken 25 mph curves at 100 and 35 mph at 50. There is no logic to how your bureaucrat assigned a speed limit. Know your car and do a run or to two, learn the course. My Focus St was one of my favorite cars to drive. With proper tires it handled like a dream.
Porsche has to neuter the performance of the Cayman GT-4 so that it doesn’t dethrone their halo car. It’s just that much better of a chassis, but I guess that’s what happens when you refuse to accept you made a poor decision from the very start, and simply continue to develop and evolve it. The fact that the 911 is as capable as it is, is a testament to how pig headed and stubborn the Germans can be.
Agreed, nothing like driving old school, cars that you have to be on your game to get the most out of it! Working at an exotic car dealer, I've been in most anything Italian or German built after 1980ish, the most enjoyable drives for me were in air cooled 911s and Ferrari 355s. Sure an F12 is insane and I'd love to own one, but just can't beat 3 pedals and no driver nannies! Worst part about the high tec stability control, paddle shifters, auto rev match etc is most of the rich track guys with modern cars think they are actually driving them. An instructor for a track day group posted a story on Corvette forum about sitting right seat for a kid in a GTR. He said the guy was aggressive as hell, late/trail braking, slinging the car into corners to the point he would brace for impact, but the car would catch it and the guy driving was convinced he was Michael Schumacher haha.
You’re absolutely right. Out of all the first time students I’ve had to instruct on track the best student I’ve had was a former auto cross champ. I was at Sebring raceway and he had a great understanding of the car. Had him ride in the car with me to see that he wasn’t pushing hard enough and once he got back on track he was flying. Bumped him up to a solo driver that day. His auto cross experience gave him great car control.
Had another first time student at Roebling Road Raceway who on our out lap around turn two takes a ride in the grass. Take it in to get checked out and the whole time he’s talking about how fast the car is. I’m telling him to relax. It’s early. Lets learn the track and the car before you push anything. Get back on track, same turn and he’s back of track again. Black flagged and done for the day. I switched students. He did the same thing to his new instructor the next day.
Fast cars don’t make fast drivers, and anyone can go fast down the straight. It’s what you do in the turns that shows your talent in knowing what the car does on the edge of grip and driving the right line without over working it. Sadly I’ve instructed so many that don’t recognize this and only want to fly down the front straight thinking they’re a fast driver.
2x? It’s not that simple.
Without fresh tires, your high end Porsche will end up wrapped around a telephone pole doing 2x posted through a turn. This what killed Paul Walker. And has sent many others off into ditches.
You would be amazed at what a moderately priced sports sedan or hot hatch can accomplish.
In the mid 80s imported six cylinder Toyotas with a bit of boost destroyed everything in California mountains and coastal roads. Yes, they had great imported rubber, too. But they were very light, had perfect balance, had a small wheelbase, instant throttle response, and the driver could feel the road and do anything with complete confidence.
Most of the Japanese sedans still have those roots and can be an immense pleasure to drive today on the right roads.
Without fresh tires, your high end Porsche will end up wrapped around a telephone pole doing 2x posted through a turn. This what killed Paul Walker. And has sent many others off into ditches.
You would be amazed at what a moderately priced sports sedan or hot hatch can accomplish.
In the mid 80s imported six cylinder Toyotas with a bit of boost destroyed everything in California mountains and coastal roads. Yes, they had great imported rubber, too. But they were very light, had perfect balance, had a small wheelbase, instant throttle response, and the driver could feel the road and do anything with complete confidence.
Most of the Japanese sedans still have those roots and can be an immense pleasure to drive today on the right roads.
Your video brings back some great memories of driver education events at Texas World Speedway. It really pisses those p car guys off when Corvettes dog them.
Once they got rid of torsion bars whole new ballgame.
Even today with that weight where it is the cup cars and 911 RSR’s are just incredible.
On the GT4’s, an IPD intake, 82 mm throttlebody you’re right there, throw Dundon 4tube headers you’re past everything but the current year 3’s, but shit compared to a few years back these are great and with simple bar changes you can flick’em around pretty good. Just put cup 2’s on and patiently waiting to get it out of the bubble....still got skiing to do.
Every body can fly , have fun lading it in crosswind crabbing almost 90 degrees.
Or you know juggling directions and frequencies flying in and out of a commercial airport.
To the OP's original question... My rule of thumb in my area is 2x the posted warning sign or the speed limit, whichever is lower. I take the corners at least once to ballpark the grip level and check for hazards.
Since we are doing show and tell on sports cars, this is my buddies car that I drive:
Since we are doing show and tell on sports cars, this is my buddies car that I drive:
