So I found a great deal on an 18" 1/7 .223 Wylde upper, barrel is SS A2 profile. Anything wrong with an A2 profile for a more precision oriented gun? Also will the 1/7 be OK when I want to plink with cheaper 55gr stuff? I will be shooting 69-77 mostly but would like the option of grabbing some xm193 or any 55gr stuff.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
questions about barrel contour
- Thread starter jLorenzo
- Start date
Skip the A2. If you want save weight get a heavy fluted. Faxon, Ballistic Advantage both have nice options. I have a BA 16” fluted. It’s light and accurate.
If you’re on a budget the Green Mountain stainless barrels get good reviews. I just ordered a fluted 20” that I have yet to shoot but have high hopes for.
If you’re on a budget the Green Mountain stainless barrels get good reviews. I just ordered a fluted 20” that I have yet to shoot but have high hopes for.
I don't really care about weight, most of the shooting will be off a bipod but I will use it for other stuff aswell. It's just a great deal complete upper with charging handle and nickel boron BCG for 359$
I was more wondering about the barrel heating up, and the twist rate handling 55gr stuff. At this price if I don't like the barrel I could always swap it out down the road.
I was more wondering about the barrel heating up, and the twist rate handling 55gr stuff. At this price if I don't like the barrel I could always swap it out down the road.
There is a distinct difference between precision and accuracy. See the definitions and comparison below. A barrel can be accurate on the first and possibly subsequent shots, but may also wander after a shot or three as it heats up, giving up precision. This is not always a given with respect to profile, but the chances for a lighter profile to wander during strings is greater.
____________________________________________________________
Accuracy versus Precision comparison chart
Definition:
Accuracy - The degree of conformity and correctness of something when compared to a true or absolute value.
Precision - A state of strict exactness — how often something is strictly exact.
Measurements:
Accuracy - Single factor or measurement
Precision - Multiple measurements or factors are needed
Relationship:
Accuracy - Something can be accurate on occasion as a fluke.
Precision - For something to be consistently and reliably accurate, it must also be precise.
Results can be precise without being accurate.
Alternatively, results can be precise AND accurate.
Hey, sounds like the beginning of a good lesson. The A2 profile must not be consistently accurate so it’s not precise? And is this due to weight reduction in the barrel? Ok, so I’m alittle new, what barrel shapes are there, and which are more precise? Is that a fair question?
I'm not sure that I'm the correct guy to provide you with a lesson, but I can help to further discuss what I posted above.
In the world of rifle shooting, accuracy refers to the ability of the rifle system (barrel, action, stock, scope etal) to hit where you are aiming. In other words, the relationship between your point of aim and your point of impact. Can you hit what you are aiming at? The closer your point of impact is to the point of aim, then the more accurate your rifle system is.
Precision has to do with the ability of that same rifle system to do this repeatedly. In other words. what would a 10-shot group look like? Assuming no outside influences from the shooter or environment.
As to the application of these terms to this thread and your question, it is fairly common that a thinner profile barrel will start to lose consistent accuracy (and therefore precision) as it heats up from long strings of fire. Some thin sporting barrels can start losing precision after as few as 3 rounds. This is not always true and can certainly vary from barrel to barrel, but all other things being equal, a heavier profile will reduce accuracy variation from shot to shot.
Of course, once you introduce the variables of shooter and environmental condition to this, it's a completely different ball game.
In the world of rifle shooting, accuracy refers to the ability of the rifle system (barrel, action, stock, scope etal) to hit where you are aiming. In other words, the relationship between your point of aim and your point of impact. Can you hit what you are aiming at? The closer your point of impact is to the point of aim, then the more accurate your rifle system is.
Precision has to do with the ability of that same rifle system to do this repeatedly. In other words. what would a 10-shot group look like? Assuming no outside influences from the shooter or environment.
As to the application of these terms to this thread and your question, it is fairly common that a thinner profile barrel will start to lose consistent accuracy (and therefore precision) as it heats up from long strings of fire. Some thin sporting barrels can start losing precision after as few as 3 rounds. This is not always true and can certainly vary from barrel to barrel, but all other things being equal, a heavier profile will reduce accuracy variation from shot to shot.
Of course, once you introduce the variables of shooter and environmental condition to this, it's a completely different ball game.
Heavier barrels are more accurate (to a point) all other things being equal.
In an AR for instance comparing ten shot groups with light, medium and heavy barrels you might find that each step shrinks groups by 20%.
That said my own ARs have premium barrels in lighter contours, as a trade between accuracy and weight.
In an AR for instance comparing ten shot groups with light, medium and heavy barrels you might find that each step shrinks groups by 20%.
That said my own ARs have premium barrels in lighter contours, as a trade between accuracy and weight.
I would say that's generally true, but a little imprecise in my opinion.
Heavier contours react less severely to heat. A sporter ("pencil") barrel can start heat stringing on the second shot. I have a .30-06 A-Bolt that's nuts on the cold-shot/foul-shot every year at 1" high @100yds. I always try to get out an confirm zero before the first day. Shots #2, #3, #4, start heat stringing up and to the right almost immediately and get worse and worst with each shot. I literally have to wait 15-20 minutes for the barrel to completely cool before I can come close to that cold-shot again. That said, it's a very accurate rifle for that first shot, or if you care to wait and shoot once every half hour. That rifle has killed more deer than chronic wasting disease.
I also believe that it is easier to develop good loads with heavier barrels. There is less whip/amplitude to deal with, so it would follow the nodes are wider.
Now, is there is difference between an M24 or MTU? That's probably debatable, and there are enough other variables that it probably cannot be realistically statistically determined. I think if you go with any of the popular contours you're not going to go wrong, and flute if you want to save a little weight, but I never do. I usually want it heavier not lighter.
Heavier contours react less severely to heat. A sporter ("pencil") barrel can start heat stringing on the second shot. I have a .30-06 A-Bolt that's nuts on the cold-shot/foul-shot every year at 1" high @100yds. I always try to get out an confirm zero before the first day. Shots #2, #3, #4, start heat stringing up and to the right almost immediately and get worse and worst with each shot. I literally have to wait 15-20 minutes for the barrel to completely cool before I can come close to that cold-shot again. That said, it's a very accurate rifle for that first shot, or if you care to wait and shoot once every half hour. That rifle has killed more deer than chronic wasting disease.
I also believe that it is easier to develop good loads with heavier barrels. There is less whip/amplitude to deal with, so it would follow the nodes are wider.
Now, is there is difference between an M24 or MTU? That's probably debatable, and there are enough other variables that it probably cannot be realistically statistically determined. I think if you go with any of the popular contours you're not going to go wrong, and flute if you want to save a little weight, but I never do. I usually want it heavier not lighter.
Here is the upper, went ahead and bought it for 359$ couldn't pass it up, if the barrel isn't up to snuff I'll replace it later but lots of reviews saying it shoots great. Almost looks like it's not an A2, PSA being what it is, all the details on the listing might not be 100% accurate.
Attachments
I like some of the Tactical Rifleman stuff I've seen, but most of it is a pretty shallow look at stuff. Maybe just designed to whet the viewer's appetite, IDK. I'm sure he can shoot and knows his stuff in real life.
In this case, he started out by defining the terms (his definition), but then he proceeded to interchange them throughout the discussion. He also attributed some group issues to one thing or the other, when there were actually multiple possibilities for each case. There was more as well, but I'm not going to go into all of it. Most of you will have picked up on the same stuff.
Like most youtube/internet stuff, I would view them as entertainment more than anything else.
In this case, he started out by defining the terms (his definition), but then he proceeded to interchange them throughout the discussion. He also attributed some group issues to one thing or the other, when there were actually multiple possibilities for each case. There was more as well, but I'm not going to go into all of it. Most of you will have picked up on the same stuff.
Like most youtube/internet stuff, I would view them as entertainment more than anything else.
I agree with everything you said lol. I was thinking the same things when I watched it. Yeah a lot of their videos are pretty basic AR15 tacticool noob style but non the less. Better to have some videos like this than not at all, one of the upsides of the digital age.
I like their vids on the M110, PSR, and a few others but yeah most of them are pretty basic.
Here is a good image for you to see. im a visual learner so hopefully it helps.
In actuality, I had these 2 terms mixed up. I thought being accurate was top right while Precision was bottom right. Learn something new everyday.
Thanks. That accurately (pun intended) depicts what I was describing, for those more visually inclined.
Here is a good image for you to see. im a visual learner so hopefully it helps.
In actuality, I had these 2 terms mixed up. I thought being accurate was top right while Precision was bottom right. Learn something new everyday.
I was told today by the LGS that AR-10 barrels are not standardized like bolt rifle barrels. Some of the Mfg.s have names they sell under, but you won't find an MTU profile from multiple Mfg.s. A lot of it has to do with the size of the gas block, and they're pretty much all based on their physical measurements.
They said, that AR-15 parts are essentially standardized, and AR-10 parts are the wild west (including the barrels).
They said, that AR-15 parts are essentially standardized, and AR-10 parts are the wild west (including the barrels).
OK no one has really told me why I would lose precision because of an a2 barrel. I assumed a good barrel will not string after heat and a low quality one will string. Nothing to do with profile, at least according to that video frank did with the guys at Bartlien awhile ago.
I didn’t see the video, but I’ll bet they were comparing heavy contour to heavy contour, not sporter to heavy varmint.
Okay, you want an answer, but you need to define you're idea of precision. If you are talking long range precision, it's one thing. If you are talking 3-gun or close range ARs it's another. In theory the want is the same, but in practice the needs are different.
I totally agree that a barrel done right will be a hammer, no matter the profile. So, what is a good barrel? A .750" that will hang right in there over strings of fire that is as good as any .936"? I agree. Who's offering that?
Similar threads
