Questions about neck dies, and custom dies.

[Sharpshooter3]

First I will give you a little background before the questions. I have been reloading for about 4 years now, for both rifle and pistol. Like some of you I had to be self taught as I don't know anybody near me that reloads that could teach me. So I have tried to read everything that I can get my hands on about the subject to try to improve my process. Currently I dry tumble my brass with Nufinish car wax for about 3-4hrs to get it clean. Next I lube and resize with a full length sizer, wipe off case lube with towel, clean primer pockets, trim, chaffer/deburr, clean inside of neck with brush, seat primers, load powder with charge master, seat bullets about .010-.020 off the lans (rifle) shoot and repeat. Now to my question's. I was talking to a friend that doesn't live close to me and he suggested that I should use a Redding FL bushing sizer in place of a full length sizer. I value his opinion as both a good friend and someone that from what I can tell produces very consistent accurate ammo. So I started researching the subject as much as I could. After alot of reading on several articles/ and in several forums I see some people using the Redding FL bushing sizers, some just neck sizing dies, and some people having custom dies made to match there chambers. Which would be better to consider and why? Is there other options that would be better yet?This would pertain to a new full custom rifle that I just had built (6.5x47L) Current die set that I have for it is a Forster full length sizing die and Micrometer seating die. Look forward to hearing everybody's wisdom. Thanks!

 

[spife7980]

The custom die would be the best at matching your rifles chamber obviously but when you put a new barrel on depending on the reamer it could make your current die nonfunctional. Thats the risk with a custom, its custom to your circumstance.

The bushing die just allows you to alter the neck sizing part of your die. Your current forster dies neck can also be honed out in a one time operation to achieve the same ends.

To see how much work a bushing can save your brass you need to measure.
Measure the neck wall thickness, double it and add the diameter of a bullet... or just measure a loaded round if you have one.

In this image it says that the the brass thickness is .345 mm (/25.4=)or .0136" thick.
.0136 x 2 for both sides of the neck is .02716 Plus a bullet of .264=.291" for a loaded rounds neck diameter using this images sample brass.

A normal die might size the fired neck down from .295 to .280 and then use the expander ball to open the neck up to .289. (That difference between the fully sized brass at .289 and the loaded diameter of .291 is .002" of neck tension which is what most people go for.) What a bushing does is allow you to avoid sizing the case necks down to .280 or where ever it actually ends up being and instead set them at .289 saving you .007" of work. You can also use a slightly smaller bushing of .287 or .288 and use the expander ball or a separate mandrel die to open them up to .289 if you have inconsistent neck wall thickness. The current dies could also give you exactly what you want, you just need to measure and see.

What you need to ask yourself is whether its worth it to you to spend that much more than the normal dies. Its 12 bucks plus shipping to have your current dies honed out by forster.

Or you can go with a Harrels die, They make a bunch of slightly different variants and you send in some fired brass and they will select a variant that is a best fit for you.

 

[Sharpshooter3]

Thanks for the reply spife7980! I did as you suggested and measured a case resized with my current Forster FL die. With the expander ball/ decaping pin removed it will resize a case neck down to .281" OD. A loaded round measures .289"OD so it looks like it is working the brass about .008" From what I understand if I send off my Forster die and have it honed it shouldn't effect me when I go to change barrels in the future due to only the neck being opened up on the die? And essentially I'll have the same benefit as the Redding FL neck sizing die with out having to interchange bushings for 12 bucks instead of $70ish plus bushings.

 

[spife7980]

Future barrels? No. Only future brass. The case will expand to the chamber diameter no matter what when fired, you cant control how far it expands via die, only via the barrel reamer.

.289 loaded means your brass is .0125 thick, if you were to use brass that was only .008 thick you wouldnt be able to use the die because the case walls would be thinner than the amount of brass displacement so they would just sort of pass right through the forster and never get sized down far enough to grip a bullet.
But you’re not shooting a tightneck 6 ppc so you’ll never run into that issue of super thin walls.

And yes, it will do it the same for 12 plus shipping but it’s a one time thing, with the bushing you can change it. One gets you what you want, one lets you be adaptable. As with anything it all depends on how much you want to pay for the convenience.

With a .289 and your measurement compared to lapuas design chart I would recommend honing it to .286. Typically forster recommends .004 so that it works well with varying brass types and not perfectly even necks. So .004 under yours would be .285 so that the expander ball can open it back up by .002 to .287 (that’s only working it open .001 on each side of the neck but neck walls aren’t oerfectly even thickness so that makes the inside surface concentric instead of the outside of the neck) but with lapua saying that their brass is .013 thick yours is on the thin side so honing it to the thin side of spec at .003 under would seem safe enough. .285 of you really want to be safe.

Or you can just live with the extra working of the brass, I have been on my 6xc forster but I think I’m going to go ahead and send mine off to be honed since I have a bunch of brass processed and it will be awhile before I need to size anything with it so I won’t miss it for the week or two.

 

[oldnmkid]

I believe you have to send in at least 3 fired cases. The reason I won't spring for a custom die is because it's only good for that particular barrel. Unless you own the reamer. Why are you neck sizing?