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      "thread_prefix.33" => "Precision Rifle Gear"
      "thread_prefix.34" => "WTB"
      "thread_prefix.35" => "Knives"
      "thread_prefix.36" => "Assassin's Way"
      "thread_prefix.37" => "Fieldcraft Matches"
      "thread_prefix.38" => "Physical Fitness"
      "thread_prefix.39" => "Ammo"
      "thread_prefix.4" => "Suppressors"
      "thread_prefix.5" => "Night Vision"
      "thread_prefix.6" => "Rifle Scopes"
      "thread_prefix.7" => "Alaska Precision Rifle Course"
      "thread_prefix.8" => "Range Report"
      "thread_prefix.9" => "Training Courses"
      "widget_def.XP_xpress_recent_posts_3" => "XPress: thxpress_widget_recent_posts"
      "widget_def.adav_level_progress" => "[Audentio] Achievements: Progress to next level"
      "widget_def.adav_recent_achievements" => "[Audentio] Achievements: Recently Earned Achievements"
      "widget_def.adav_tracked_achievements" => "[Audentio] Achievements: Tracked Achievements"
      "widget_def.adca_account_completion" => "[Audentio] Account Completion"
      "widget_def.adlb_leaderboard" => "[Audentio] Leaderboards: Leaderboard"
      "widget_def.birthdays" => "Today's birthdays"
      "widget_def.find_member" => "Find member"
      "widget_def.forum_statistics" => "Forum statistics"
      "widget_def.html" => "HTML"
      "widget_def.member_stat" => "Member stat"
      "widget_def.members_online" => "Members online"
      "widget_def.new_posts" => "New posts"
      "widget_def.new_profile_posts" => "New profile posts"
      "widget_def.new_threads" => "New threads"
      "widget_def.newest_members" => "Newest members"
      "widget_def.nf_calendar_featured_even" => "Calendar: Featured events"
      "widget_def.nf_calendar_upcoming_evnt" => "Calendar: Upcoming events"
      "widget_def.online_statistics" => "Online statistics"
      "widget_def.php_callback" => "PHP callback"
      "widget_def.search_forum" => "Search forum"
      "widget_def.share_page" => "Share this page"
      "widget_def.template_syntax" => "Template syntax"
      "widget_def.th_post_thread_uix" => "[UI.X] Start a thread"
      "widget_def.th_reactplus_top_content" => "[TH] Reactions Plus: Top content"
      "widget_def.th_widget_login_uix" => "[UI.X] Login form"
      "widget_def.thdonate_campaign" => "[TH] Donate: Campaign"
      "widget_def.thdonate_earnings" => "[TH] Donate: Earnings"
      "widget_def.thdonate_goals" => "[TH] Donate: Goals"
      "widget_def.thdonate_topDonations" => "[TH] Donate: Top donations"
      "widget_def.thdonate_topDonors" => "[TH] Donate: Top donors"
      "widget_def.thfeature_full" => "[TH] Featured Threads and Content: Full"
      "widget_def.thfeature_full_thread" => "[TH] Featured Threads and Content: Full Threads"
      "widget_def.thfeature_grid" => "[TH] Featured Threads and Content: Grid"
      "widget_def.thfeature_grid_threads" => "[TH] Featured Threads and Content: Grid Threads"
      "widget_def.thfeature_slider" => "[TH] Featured Threads and Content: Slider"
      "widget_def.thfeature_slider_threads" => "[TH] Featured Threads and Content: Slider Threads"
      "widget_def.thfilters_filters" => "[TH] Filters"
      "widget_def.threactplus_userReactList" => "[TH] Reactions Plus: Member reaction list"
      "widget_def.thread_poll" => "Thread poll"
      "widget_def.thtrending" => "[TH] Trending"
      "widget_def.thuix_socialMedia" => "[TH] UI.X social media feed"
      "widget_def.thxpress_latest_articles" => "[TH] XPress: Latest Articles"
      "widget_def.visitor_panel" => "Visitor panel"
      "widget_def.xcfs_latest_feedback" => "XCFS: Latest Feedback"
      "widget_def.xcfs_top_traders" => "XCFS: Top Traders"
      "widget_def.xcfs_untrusted_traders" => "XCFS: Untrusted Traders"
      "widget_def.xfes_similar_threads" => "XFES: Similar threads"
      "widget_def.xfmg_albums_slider" => "XFMG: Albums slider"
      "widget_def.xfmg_gallery_statistics" => "XFMG: Gallery statistics"
      "widget_def.xfmg_latest_comments" => "XFMG: Latest comments"
      "widget_def.xfmg_media_slider" => "XFMG: Media slider"
      "widget_def.xfrm_featured_resources" => "XFRM: Featured resources"
      "widget_def.xfrm_latest_reviews" => "XFRM: Latest reviews"
      "widget_def.xfrm_new_resources" => "XFRM: New resources"
      "widget_def.xfrm_top_resources" => "XFRM: Top resources"
      "widget.Complete_Account" => "Complete Your Account"
      "widget.advertisement" => "Advertisement"
      "widget.app_download_canvas" => "App download"
      "widget.become_a_member" => "Upgrade Your Account"
      "widget.canvas_menu" => "Canvas Menu"
      "widget.canvas_menu_social" => "Canvas menu social"
      "widget.donation" => "Help Cover Community Costs!"
      "widget.forum_overview_forum_statistics" => ""
      "widget.forum_overview_members_online" => ""
      "widget.forum_overview_new_posts" => ""
      "widget.forum_overview_new_profile_posts" => ""
      "widget.forum_overview_share_page" => ""
      "widget.latest_followed_profile_posts" => "Latest profile posts by followers"
      "widget.latest_posts" => "Latest posts"
      "widget.latest_profile_posts" => "Latest profile posts"
      "widget.latest_watched" => "Latest watched"
      "widget.leaderboards" => "Leaderboard: Posts"
      "widget.member_wrapper_find_member" => ""
      "widget.member_wrapper_newest_members" => ""
      "widget.nf_calendar_list_featured_events" => ""
      "widget.online_list_online_statistics" => ""
      "widget.sh_forumStats" => "Forum Statistics"
      "widget.sh_homeTrending" => "Trending Threads"
      "widget.sh_mediaSlider" => "Latest Media"
      "widget.sh_subscribe" => "Subscribe"
      "widget.thdonate_earnings" => ""
      "widget.thdonate_goals" => ""
      "widget.thdonate_topDonations" => ""
      "widget.thdonate_topDonors" => ""
      "widget.thuix_footer_aboutUsWidget" => "About us"
      "widget.uix_footer_forumStatistics" => ""
      "widget.uix_footer_newPosts" => ""
      "widget.uix_footer_onlineStatistics" => ""
      "widget.uix_footer_sharePage" => ""
      "widget.uix_sidebar_postNewThread" => "Can't find a topic?"
      "widget.unread_posts" => "Unread posts"
      "widget.whats_new_new_posts" => ""
      "widget.whats_new_new_profile_posts" => ""
      "widget.xfes_thread_view_below_quick_reply_similar_threads" => ""
      "widget.xfrm_forum_overview_new_resources" => ""
      "widget.xfrm_list_featured_resources" => ""
      "widget.xfrm_list_top_resources" => ""
      "widget.xfrm_overview_latest_reviews" => ""
      "widget.xfrm_overview_top_authors" => ""
      "widget.xfrm_whats_new_overview_new_resources" => ""
      "reactions.1_person" => "1 person"
      "reactions.deleted_user" => "(deleted member)"
      "reactions.threactplus_one_user" => "1 user"
      "reactions.threactplus_x_users" => "{count} users"
      "reactions.threactplus_you_and_x_others" => "You and {count} others"
      "reactions.user1" => "{user1}"
      "reactions.user1_and_user2" => "{user1} and {user2}"
      "reactions.user1_user2_and_user3" => "{user1}, {user2} and {user3}"
      "reactions.user1_user2_user3_and_1_other" => "{user1}, {user2}, {user3} and 1 other person"
      "reactions.user1_user2_user3_and_x_others" => "{user1}, {user2}, {user3} and {others} others"
      "reactions.x_people" => "{reactions} people"
      "reactions.you" => "You"
      "reactions.you_and_user1" => "You and {user1}"
      "reactions.you_user1_and_user2" => "You, {user1} and {user2}"
      "reactions.you_user1_user2_and_1_other" => "You, {user1}, {user2} and 1 other person"
      "reactions.you_user1_user2_and_x_others" => "You, {user1}, {user2} and {others} others"
      "reaction_title.1" => "Like"
      "reaction_title.2" => "Love"
      "reaction_title.3" => "Haha"
      "reaction_title.4" => "Wow"
      "reaction_title.5" => "Sad"
      "reaction_title.6" => "Angry"
      "trophy_title.1" => "First Real Post"
      "trophy_title.10" => "Old School Sniper's Hide"
      "trophy_title.11" => "Posts (Silent)"
      "trophy_title.12" => "Logging In (Silent)"
      "trophy_title.13" => "Post Media Items (Silent)"
      "trophy_title.136" => "Test Achievement 4"
      "trophy_title.14" => "Spotted"
      "trophy_title.15" => "Rifle Cleaner"
      "trophy_title.16" => "Completed Profile"
      "trophy_title.17" => "Gunsmith"
      "trophy_title.19" => "Community Contributor"
      "trophy_title.2" => "Just getting into Precision Rifle."
      "trophy_title.20" => "Marksman!"
      "trophy_title.22" => "Made America Great Again"
      "trophy_title.23" => "Professor"
      "trophy_title.25" => "Leaderboard Legend"
      "trophy_title.26" => "Commercial Sales Member"
      "trophy_title.27" => "Supporter"
      "trophy_title.3" => "Look Everyone I can Sell Now !"
      "trophy_title.4" => "Hide Addict !"
      "trophy_title.5" => "Members are Noticing"
      "trophy_title.6" => "Hide Rockstar, Lady Gaga Approved!"
      "trophy_title.7" => "They like me, they really like me!"
      "trophy_title.8" => "I want to have Lowlight's Love Child"
      "trophy_title.9" => "I LOVE IT LONG TIME"
      "a_moment_ago" => "A moment ago"
      "actions" => "Actions"
      "approve" => "Approve"
      "continue_reading" => "Continue reading..."
      "conversations" => "Conversations"
      "date_x_at_time_y" => "{date} at {time}"
      "day_friday" => "Friday"
      "day_friday_short" => "Fri"
      "day_monday" => "Monday"
      "day_monday_short" => "Mon"
      "day_saturday" => "Saturday"
      "day_saturday_short" => "Sat"
      "day_sunday" => "Sunday"
      "day_sunday_short" => "Sun"
      "day_thursday" => "Thursday"
      "day_thursday_short" => "Thu"
      "day_tuesday" => "Tuesday"
      "day_tuesday_short" => "Tue"
      "day_wednesday" => "Wednesday"
      "day_wednesday_short" => "Wed"
      "day_x_at_time_y" => "{day} at {time}"
      "delete" => "Delete"
      "edit_avatar" => "Edit avatar"
      "follow" => "Follow"
      "forums" => "Forums"
      "from_x_location" => "From {location}"
      "guest" => "Guest"
      "help" => "Help"
      "in_a_minute" => "In a minute"
      "in_a_moment" => "In a moment"
      "in_x_minutes" => "In {minutes} minutes"
      "later_today_at_x" => "Later today at {time}"
      "master_language" => "Master language"
      "master_style" => "Master style"
      "members" => "Members"
      "month_1" => "January"
      "month_10" => "October"
      "month_10_short" => "Oct"
      "month_11" => "November"
      "month_11_short" => "Nov"
      "month_12" => "December"
      "month_12_short" => "Dec"
      "month_1_short" => "Jan"
      "month_2" => "February"
      "month_2_short" => "Feb"
      "month_3" => "March"
      "month_3_short" => "Mar"
      "month_4" => "April"
      "month_4_short" => "Apr"
      "month_5" => "May"
      "month_5_short" => "May"
      "month_6" => "June"
      "month_6_short" => "Jun"
      "month_7" => "July"
      "month_7_short" => "Jul"
      "month_8" => "August"
      "month_8_short" => "Aug"
      "month_9" => "September"
      "month_9_short" => "Sep"
      "new_posts" => "New posts"
      "new_profile_posts" => "New profile posts"
      "no_items_to_display" => "No items to display"
      "none" => "None"
      "one_minute_ago" => "1 minute ago"
      "realms_realm_quiz_user" => "Realm Quiz User"
      "s9e_MediaSites_Footer_Credit" => "Media embeds via s9e/MediaSites"
      "show_hidden_content_by_x" => "Show hidden content by {names}"
      "show_ignored_content" => "Show ignored content"
      "showing_all_items" => "Showing all items"
      "showing_x_of_y_items" => "Showing {count} of {total} items"
      "spoiler" => "Spoiler"
      "staff_member" => "Staff member"
      "th_progress_bar_color_will_change_donate" => "Once this milestone has been reached the progress bar will change to this color. If left blank it will display the default color from your color palette."
      "there_are_x_items_in_total" => "There are {total} items in total"
      "time_am_lower" => "am"
      "time_am_upper" => "AM"
      "time_pm_lower" => "pm"
      "time_pm_upper" => "PM"
      "title_page_x" => " | Page {page}"
      "today_at_x" => "Today at {time}"
      "tomorrow_at_x" => "Tomorrow at {time}"
      "unfollow" => "Unfollow"
      "ungrouped" => "Ungrouped"
      "upload_file" => "Upload file"
      "viewing_an_error" => "Viewing an error"
      "x_b" => "{number}B"
      "x_bytes" => "{size} bytes"
      "x_gb" => "{size} GB"
      "x_k" => "{number}K"
      "x_kb" => "{size} KB"
      "x_m" => "{number}M"
      "x_mb" => "{size} MB"
      "x_minutes_ago" => "{minutes} minutes ago"
      "x_tb" => "{size} TB"
      "xfmg_browse_albums" => "Browse albums"
      "xfmg_x_seconds" => "{count} second(s)"
      "xfrm_resource_icon" => "Resource icon"
      "yesterday_at_x" => "Yesterday at {time}"
      "your_account" => "Your account"
      "th_reactplus_show_hidden_low_quality_content" => "Show hidden low quality content"
      "thcovers_no_edit_permissions" => "You are not allowed to edit this cover."
    ]
    #phrasesToLoad: array:1 [
      "thcovers_no_position_permissions" => true
    ]
    #groupsCached: array:8 [
      "trophy_title" => true
      "reaction_title" => true
      "reactions" => true
      "widget" => true
      "widget_def" => true
      "thread_prefix" => true
      "button" => true
      "nav" => true
    ]
    #date: DateTime @1591537151 {#312
      date: 2020-06-07 09:39:11.0 America/New_York (-04:00)
    }
    #dayStartTimestamps: array:6 [
      "tomorrow" => "1732424400"
      "now" => 1732392511
      "today" => "1732338000"
      "todayDow" => "6"
      "yesterday" => "1732251600"
      "week" => "1731819600"
    ]
    #dowTranslation: array:7 [
      0 => "sunday"
      1 => "monday"
      2 => "tuesday"
      3 => "wednesday"
      4 => "thursday"
      5 => "friday"
      6 => "saturday"
    ]
    #rdc: array:56 [
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    ]
  }
  "style" => Style {#321
    #id: "27"
    #lastModified: 1731439652
    #properties: array:696 [
      "adavAchievementCriteria" => array:3 [ …3]
      "adavAchievementCriterionProgressBar" => array:5 [ …5]
      "adavAchievementCriterionProgressBarInner" => array:3 [ …3]
      "adavAchievementCriterionProgressBarStatus" => array:1 [ …1]
      "adavAchievementExperience" => array:3 [ …3]
      "adavAchievementTitle" => array:2 [ …2]
      "adst_shepherdElement" => array:3 [ …3]
      "animationSpeed" => "0.2s"
      "audapp_primaryColor" => "#677e9a"
      "audapp_secondaryColor" => "#677e9a"
      "avatarBg" => "rgb(27,27,27)"
      "avatarBorderRadius" => "8px"
      "badge" => array:4 [ …4]
      "bbCodeBlock" => array:6 [ …6]
      "bbCodeBlockTitle" => array:3 [ …3]
      "bbCodeInlineCode" => array:9 [ …9]
      "blockBorder" => array:5 [ …5]
      "blockBorderRadius" => "8px"
      "blockFilterBar" => array:3 [ …3]
      "blockFooter" => array:5 [ …5]
      "blockFooterBg" => "rgb(45,45,45)"
      "blockFooterTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)"
      "blockHeader" => array:6 [ …6]
      "blockLink" => array:4 [ …4]
      "blockLinkSelected" => array:5 [ …5]
      "blockMinorHeader" => array:6 [ …6]
      "blockMinorTabHeader" => array:5 [ …5]
      "blockMinorTabHeaderSelected" => array:2 [ …2]
      "blockPaddingH" => "16px"
      "blockPaddingV" => "16px"
      "blockTabHeader" => array:6 [ …6]
      "blockTabHeaderBg" => "transparent"
      "blockTabHeaderSelected" => array:2 [ …2]
      "blockTabHeaderTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)"
      "blockTextHeader" => array:3 [ …3]
      "borderColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)"
      "borderColorAccentContent" => "#677e9a"
      "borderColorAttention" => "#677e9a"
      "borderColorFaint" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)"
      "borderColorFeature" => "#677e9a"
      "borderColorHeavy" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)"
      "borderColorHighlight" => "#677e9a"
      "borderColorLight" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)"
      "borderRadiusLarge" => "12px"
      "borderRadiusMedium" => "8px"
      "borderRadiusSmall" => "8px"
      "borderSize" => "0px"
      "borderSizeFeature" => "2px"
      "buttonBase" => array:8 [ …8]
      "buttonBg" => "fade(rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8), 14%)"
      "buttonCta" => array:3 [ …3]
      "buttonCtaBg" => "#677e9a"
      "buttonDefault" => array:3 [ …3]
      "buttonDisabled" => array:4 [ …4]
      "buttonPrimary" => array:3 [ …3]
      "buttonPrimaryBg" => "#677e9a"
      "buttonTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "chip" => array:5 [ …5]
      "chipHover" => array:1 [ …1]
      "chromeBg" => "mix(#677e9a, rgb(27,27,27), 10%)"
      "chromeTextColor" => "rgb(36,36,36)"
      "contentAccentBase" => array:2 [ …2]
      "contentAccentBg" => "mix(#677e9a, rgb(27,27,27), 10%)"
      "contentAccentLink" => array:1 [ …1]
      "contentAltBase" => array:2 [ …2]
      "contentAltBg" => "rgb(36,36,36)"
      "contentBase" => array:2 [ …2]
      "contentBg" => "rgb(27,27,27)"
      "contentHighlightBase" => array:2 [ …2]
      "contentHighlightBg" => "rgb(45,45,45)"
      "dataListFooter" => array:5 [ …5]
      "dataListHeader" => array:7 [ …7]
      "dataListPaddingH" => "16px"
      "dataListPaddingV" => "16px"
      "dataListSection" => array:5 [ …5]
      "editorBg" => "rgb(45,45,45)"
      "editorButtonActiveColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "editorButtonColor" => "fade(mix(rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8), rgb(255, 255, 255)), 85%)"
      "editorButtonDisabledColor" => "mix(rgb(27,27,27), rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6), 60%)"
      "editorButtonHoverBg" => "fade(rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8), 15%)"
      "editorButtonHoverColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "editorButtonSelectedBg" => "fade(rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8), 15%)"
      "editorButtonSize" => "18px"
      "editorColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "editorFocusBg" => "xf-intensify(rgb(45,45,45), 1%)"
      "editorFocusColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "editorImageHandles" => "#677e9a"
      "editorSelectionBg" => "rgb(36,36,36)"
      "editorSelectionColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "editorToolsFocusBg" => "linear-gradient(180deg, rgb(45,45,45), xf-intensify(rgb(45,45,45), 1%))"
      "editorToolsOverflowBg" => "xf-intensify(rgb(45,45,45), 3%)"
      "elementSpacer" => "16px"
      "emailBg" => "rgb(18,18,18)"
      "emailBorderColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)"
      "emailContentAltBg" => "rgb(36,36,36)"
      "emailContentBg" => "rgb(27,27,27)"
      "emailFont" => "ui-sans-serif,system-ui,sans-serif,Apple Color Emoji,Segoe UI Emoji,Segoe UI Symbol,Noto Color Emoji"
      "emailHeaderColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "emailLinkColor" => "#677e9a"
      "emailTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "emailTextColorMuted" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)"
      "fixedMessage" => array:7 [ …7]
      "flashMessage" => array:5 [ …5]
      "fontFamilyBody" => "ui-sans-serif,system-ui,sans-serif,Apple Color Emoji,Segoe UI Emoji,Segoe UI Symbol,Noto Color Emoji"
      "fontFamilyUi" => "ui-sans-serif,system-ui,sans-serif,Apple Color Emoji,Segoe UI Emoji,Segoe UI Symbol,Noto Color Emoji"
      "fontSizeLarge" => "1.6rem"
      "fontSizeLarger" => "2.0rem"
      "fontSizeLargest" => "2.4rem"
      "fontSizeNormal" => "1.6rem"
      "fontSizeSmall" => "1.4rem"
      "fontSizeSmaller" => "1.4rem"
      "fontSizeSmallest" => "1.1rem"
      "formExplain" => array:2 [ …2]
      "formHint" => array:2 [ …2]
      "formLabel" => array:3 [ …3]
      "formRowPaddingHInner" => "16px"
      "formRowPaddingHOuter" => "16px"
      "formRowPaddingV" => "16px"
      "formSectionHeader" => array:6 [ …6]
      "formSubmitRow" => array:3 [ …3]
      "globalActionColor" => "#677e9a"
      "inlineModBar" => array:6 [ …6]
      "inlineModHighlightColor" => "mix(#677e9a, rgb(27,27,27), 10%)"
      "input" => array:10 [ …10]
      "inputBgColor" => "rgb(45,45,45)"
      "inputDisabled" => array:2 [ …2]
      "inputFocus" => array:3 [ …3]
      "inputFocusBgColor" => "xf-intensify(rgb(45,45,45), 1%)"
      "inputTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "link" => array:2 [ …2]
      "linkColor" => "#677e9a"
      "linkHover" => array:2 [ …2]
      "linkHoverColor" => "xf-intensify(#677e9a, 17%)"
      "majorHeadingBg" => "transparent"
      "majorHeadingTextColor" => "rgb(255, 255, 255)"
      "memberHeader" => array:3 [ …3]
      "memberHeaderBlurbContainerBanner" => array:4 [ …4]
      "memberHeaderName" => array:2 [ …2]
      "memberTooltipBlurbContainerBanner" => array:5 [ …5]
      "memberTooltipHeader" => array:4 [ …4]
      "memberTooltipName" => array:1 [ …1]
      "menu" => array:6 [ …6]
      "menuBorderRadius" => "8px"
      "menuFeatureBorderColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)"
      "menuFooter" => array:6 [ …6]
      "menuHeader" => array:5 [ …5]
      "menuLinkRow" => array:2 [ …2]
      "menuLinkRowSelected" => array:3 [ …3]
      "menuTabHeader" => array:5 [ …5]
      "menuTabHeaderSelected" => array:2 [ …2]
      "messageNewIndicator" => array:8 [ …8]
      "messagePadding" => "16px"
      "messagePaddingSmall" => "16px"
      "messageSignature" => array:7 [ …7]
      "messageUserBlock" => array:3 [ …3]
      "messageUserElements" => array:9 [ …9]
      "metaThemeColor" => "#677e9a"
      "minorBlockContent" => array:3 [ …3]
      "minorHeadingTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "nodeIconReadColor" => "#fff"
      "nodeIconUnreadColor" => "#fff"
      "nodeListDescriptionDisplay" => "inline"
      "overlayHeader" => array:8 [ …8]
      "overlayMaskColor" => "rgba(0, 0, 0, .3)"
      "paddingLarge" => "16px"
      "paddingLargest" => "24px"
      "paddingMedium" => "16px"
      "paddingSmall" => "8px"
      "pageBackground" => array:1 [ …1]
      "pageBg" => "rgb(18,18,18)"
      "pageEdgeSpacer" => "30px"
      "paletteAccent1" => "#677e9a"
      "paletteAccent2" => "#677e9a"
      "paletteAccent3" => "#677e9a"
      "paletteColor1" => "rgb(27,27,27)"
      "paletteColor2" => "rgb(36,36,36)"
      "paletteColor3" => "rgb(45,45,45)"
      "paletteColor4" => "rgb(18,18,18)"
      "paletteColor5" => "mix(#677e9a, rgb(27,27,27), 10%)"
      "paletteNeutral1" => "rgb(255, 255, 255)"
      "paletteNeutral2" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)"
      "paletteNeutral3" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "profilePostCommentToggle" => 1
      "progressBarColor" => "#677e9a"
      "publicFaviconUrl" => "styles/snipershide/snipershide/sh-favicon.svg"
      "publicFooter" => array:2 [ …2]
      "publicFooterLink" => array:1 [ …1]
      "publicHeader" => array:3 [ …3]
      "publicHeaderAdjustColor" => ""
      "publicIconUrl" => "data/assets/logo/192.png"
      "publicIconUrlLarge" => "data/assets/logo/512.png"
      "publicLogoHeight" => "60"
      "publicLogoUrl" => "styles/snipershide/snipershide/logo-top.svg"
      "publicLogoWidth" => "417"
      "publicMetadataLogoUrl" => "https://snipershide.com/shooting/styles/snipershide/snipershide/SHMetaplatev2.png"
      "publicNav" => array:3 [ …3]
      "publicNavCollapseWidth" => "1000px"
      "publicNavPaddingH" => "12px"
      "publicNavSelected" => array:2 [ …2]
      "publicNavTab" => array:5 [ …5]
      "publicNavTabHover" => array:2 [ …2]
      "publicNavTabMenuOpen" => array:1 [ …1]
      "publicStaffBar" => array:5 [ …5]
      "publicSubNav" => array:5 [ …5]
      "publicSubNavElHover" => array:1 [ …1]
      "publicSubNavElMenuOpen" => array:1 [ …1]
      "publicSubNavPaddingV" => "2px"
      "responsiveEdgeSpacerRemoval" => "1000px"
      "responsiveWide" => "1000px"
      "scrollJumpButtons" => "both"
      "sidebarSpacer" => "16px"
      "sidebarWidth" => "300px"
      "standaloneTab" => array:4 [ …4]
      "standaloneTabSelected" => array:2 [ …2]
      "starEmptyColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)"
      "starFullColor" => "#677e9a"
      "styleType" => "dark"
      "subNavBg" => "rgb(45,45,45)"
      "subNavTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)"
      "textColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "textColorAccentContent" => "#677e9a"
      "textColorAttention" => "#677e9a"
      "textColorDimmed" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)"
      "textColorEmphasized" => "#677e9a"
      "textColorFeature" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "textColorMuted" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)"
      "th_nodeBody" => array:1 [ …1]
      "th_reactplus_countStyling" => array:8 [ …8]
      "thdonate_progressBar" => array:1 [ …1]
      "thdonate_progressBarContainer" => array:3 [ …3]
      "thfeature_slider" => array:1 [ …1]
      "thuix_webapp_backgroundColor" => "#677e9a"
      "thxpress_dotsNavigation" => 1
      "thxpress_postExcerptTitle" => array:4 [ …4]
      "tl_backgroundColor" => "rgb(45,45,45)"
      "tl_backgroundLightColor" => "rgb(27,27,27)"
      "tl_fontColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "tl_fontDarkColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "tl_fontExtraLightColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)"
      "tl_fontLightColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)"
      "tl_lineColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)"
      "tl_lineLightColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)"
      "tl_overlayColor" => "rgb(45,45,45)"
      "tl_primaryColor" => "#677e9a"
      "tl_secondaryColor" => "#677e9a"
      "tooltip" => array:8 [ …8]
      "uix_abridgedSignatures" => 1
      "uix_activeNavTitle" => 0
      "uix_activeNavTitleStyle" => array:7 [ …7]
      "uix_additionalCss" => "ac_app.less,realms.less"
      "uix_alertsUnread" => 0
      "uix_avatarShape" => "1"
      "uix_backstretch" => 0
      "uix_backstretchDuration" => "4000"
      "uix_backstretchFade" => "500"
      "uix_backstretchImages" => ""styles/acui/images/bg/1.jpg", "styles/acui/images/bg/2.jpg", "styles/acui/images/bg/3.jpg""
      "uix_backstretchSelector" => "body"
      "uix_betaMode" => 0
      "uix_blockBody" => []
      "uix_blockContainer" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_blockMessage" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_blockOuter" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_blockTabHeaderTab" => []
      "uix_borderRadiusJs" => 0
      "uix_borderRadiusSelectors" => ".p-footer-inner, .uix_extendedFooter, .p-nav, .p-sectionLinks, .p-staffBar, .p-header, #wpadminbar"
      "uix_bottomBreadcrumbLocation" => "belowMainContainer"
      "uix_brandmarkImage__breakpoint" => "0"
      "uix_breadcrumbItem" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_breadcrumbItem__active" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_breadcrumbStyle" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_breadcrumbWrapper" => []
      "uix_breadcrumbWrapperBottom" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_buttonActive" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_buttonCtaActive" => []
      "uix_buttonCtaHover" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_buttonHover" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_buttonLink" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_buttonPrimaryActive" => []
      "uix_buttonPrimaryHover" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_buttonRipple" => 1
      "uix_buttonSmall" => array:5 [ …5]
      "uix_canvas" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_canvasHeader" => []
      "uix_canvasNavItem" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_canvasNavItemActive" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_canvasNavItemHover" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_canvasNavSubItem" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_categoryCollapse" => 1
      "uix_categoryDescription" => array:5 [ …5]
      "uix_categoryDescriptionDisplay" => "tooltip"
      "uix_categoryIconStyle" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_categoryStrip" => array:5 [ …5]
      "uix_categoryStripIcons" => 0
      "uix_categoryStripOutsideWrapper" => 0
      "uix_clickableThreads" => 0
      "uix_collapseExtraInfo" => 1
      "uix_collapseStaffbarLinks" => 1
      "uix_collapseibleSubForums" => 0
      "uix_collapsibleSidebar" => 1
      "uix_collapsibleStickyThreads" => 1
      "uix_condenseVisitorTabs" => 0
      "uix_contentWrapper" => "0"
      "uix_contentWrapperStyle" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_copyrightOrder" => "30"
      "uix_defaultNavIcon" => 1
      "uix_defaultSidebarIcon" => 1
      "uix_detachedNavigation" => 1
      "uix_discussionList" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_discussionListAnimation" => 0
      "uix_discussionListCollapseWidth" => "1000px"
      "uix_discussionListItem" => []
      "uix_discussionListItemDeleted" => []
      "uix_discussionListItemEven" => ""
      "uix_discussionListItemHover" => ""
      "uix_discussionListItemModerated" => []
      "uix_discussionListItemSticky" => []
      "uix_discussionListTitle" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_discussionListTitleUnread" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_dropdownHover" => 0
      "uix_elevation1" => "0 10px 20px rgba(0,0,0,0.09), 0 6px 6px rgba(0,0,0,0.15)"
      "uix_elevation2" => "0 3px 10px 2px rgba(0,0,0,.1), 0 1px 18px 0px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.12), 0 3px 5px 0 rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2)"
      "uix_enableExtendedFooter" => 0
      "uix_enableMainTabs" => 0
      "uix_enableWelcomeHeaderImage" => 0
      "uix_extendedFooterOrder" => "10"
      "uix_extendedFooterStyle" => array:6 [ …6]
      "uix_extendedFooter__whiteText" => 0
      "uix_externalLinkIcon" => 1
      "uix_fab" => "mobile"
      "uix_fabBarBackground" => "rgb(27,27,27)"
      "uix_fabScroll" => 0
      "uix_fabVw" => "1000px"
      "uix_footerChooser" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_footerChooserHover" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_footerCopyrightRow" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_footerIcons" => 0
      "uix_footerInsideContent" => 0
      "uix_footerLinkHover" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_footerMenu" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_footerMenuOrder" => "20"
      "uix_footerWidget" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_footerWidgetBody" => []
      "uix_footerWidgetFooter" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_footerWidgetHeader" => array:5 [ …5]
      "uix_footerWidgetPadding" => "16px"
      "uix_footerWidgetRow" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_footerWidgetWidth" => "280px"
      "uix_forceCoverCopyright" => 0
      "uix_forceCoverExtendedFooter" => 0
      "uix_forceCoverFooterMenu" => 0
      "uix_glyphCategoryIcon" => ""
      "uix_glyphForumIcon" => ""
      "uix_glyphLinkIcon" => ""
      "uix_glyphPageIcon" => ""
      "uix_googleFonts" => ""
      "uix_headerWhiteSpace" => "0px"
      "uix_headerWrapper" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_headingFont" => "ui-sans-serif,system-ui,sans-serif,Apple Color Emoji,Segoe UI Emoji,Segoe UI Symbol,Noto Color Emoji"
      "uix_headingFontWeight" => "400"
      "uix_headingFontWeightHeavy" => "700"
      "uix_hideElementsDuringJSLoad" => 1
      "uix_hideExtendedFooterMobile" => 0
      "uix_hideNodeLastPost" => 0
      "uix_hideNodeStats" => 0
      "uix_hideSingleCrumb" => 1
      "uix_hideStyleChoose" => 0
      "uix_hideTopPagenavMobile" => 1
      "uix_homeCrumbIcon" => 1
      "uix_iconFont" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_iconFontFamily" => "material"
      "uix_iconSize" => "18px"
      "uix_iconSizeLarge" => "24px"
      "uix_imageForumIcon" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_imageForumUnreadIcon" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_imageIcon" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_imageLinkIcon" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_imagePageIcon" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_imagePath" => "styles/acui"
      "uix_jsPath" => "acui"
      "uix_lazyLoadSupport" => 0
      "uix_loginStyle" => "link"
      "uix_loginTriggerPosition" => "navigation"
      "uix_logoIcon" => "mdi mdi-tune"
      "uix_logoIconStyle" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_logoSmall" => ""
      "uix_logoText" => "UI.X"
      "uix_logoTextBreakpoint" => "650px"
      "uix_logoText__style" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_logoWidth" => "222.4px"
      "uix_mainTabsBarStyling" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_mainTabsHeight" => "50px"
      "uix_mainTabsSticky" => 0
      "uix_materialAvatars" => 1
      "uix_message" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_messageActionBar" => []
      "uix_messageAnimation" => 0
      "uix_messageAttachments" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_messageBody" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_messageControl" => array:7 [ …7]
      "uix_messageControlHover" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_messageLikes" => array:5 [ …5]
      "uix_messageMain" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_messageMeta" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_messageNotice" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_metaCell" => []
      "uix_mobileTabsNav" => 1
      "uix_navAboveHeader" => 0
      "uix_navLogoVertSpacing" => "11px"
      "uix_navTabIconStyle" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_navTabIcons" => 0
      "uix_navigationBarHeight" => "72px"
      "uix_navigationType" => "default"
      "uix_newNodeMarker" => 1
      "uix_newNodeMarkerStyle" => array:8 [ …8]
      "uix_nodeAnimations" => 0
      "uix_nodeBlockBody" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_nodeBody" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_nodeBodyEven" => ""
      "uix_nodeBodyHover" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_nodeClickable" => 1
      "uix_nodeContainer" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_nodeDescription" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_nodeIconImages" => 0
      "uix_nodeIconStyle" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_nodeIconWidth" => "51px"
      "uix_nodePadding" => "16px"
      "uix_nodeStatsHover" => 0
      "uix_nodeStatsIcons" => 1
      "uix_nodeTitle" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_nodeTitle__unread" => []
      "uix_noticeLocation" => "aboveMainContainer"
      "uix_onlineIndicator" => "default"
      "uix_originalPoster" => "icon"
      "uix_pageAnimation" => 0
      "uix_pageStyle" => "covered"
      "uix_pageTitle" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_pageWidthToggle" => "fixed"
      "uix_pageWrapper" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_parallax" => 0
      "uix_parallaxImage" => "styles/acui/images/welcome-banner.png"
      "uix_parallaxPosition" => "center"
      "uix_parallaxSelector" => ".uix_welcomeSection"
      "uix_postBitAvatarSize" => "small"
      "uix_postBitIcons" => 1
      "uix_prefixAccent" => "#677e9a"
      "uix_prefixBlue" => "#2196F3"
      "uix_prefixGray" => "#616161"
      "uix_prefixGreen" => "#4CAF50"
      "uix_prefixLightGreen" => "#8BC34A"
      "uix_prefixOlive" => "#689F38"
      "uix_prefixOrange" => "#FF9800"
      "uix_prefixPrimary" => "#677e9a"
      "uix_prefixRed" => "#D32F2F"
      "uix_prefixRedSkyBlue" => "#03A9F4"
      "uix_prefixRoyalBlue" => "#0D47A1"
      "uix_prefixSilver" => "#CFD8DC"
      "uix_prefixYellow" => "#FFEB3B"
      "uix_primaryColor" => "#677e9a"
      "uix_primaryColorDarker" => "#677e9a"
      "uix_removeBottomBreadcrumb" => 0
      "uix_removeHeaderWrapper" => 1
      "uix_removeIndexPageTitle" => 0
      "uix_removeMessageArrow" => 1
      "uix_removePageAction" => 0
      "uix_removeRegisterText" => 0
      "uix_removeVisitorTabsText" => 1
      "uix_removeWhatsNewButtons" => 1
      "uix_responsiveLogoFontSize" => ""
      "uix_rightAlignNavigation" => 0
      "uix_scrollableSidebar" => 0
      "uix_searchBar" => array:5 [ …5]
      "uix_searchBarFocus" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_searchBarHeight" => "36px"
      "uix_searchBarPlaceholderColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)"
      "uix_searchBarPlaceholderFocusColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)"
      "uix_searchBarWidth" => "250px"
      "uix_searchButton" => 0
      "uix_searchIcon" => array:6 [ …6]
      "uix_searchIconBehavior" => "expandMobile"
      "uix_searchIconFocusColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)"
      "uix_searchPosition" => "header"
      "uix_search_maxResponsiveWidth" => "10000px"
      "uix_secondaryColor" => "#677e9a"
      "uix_sectionBg" => "#677e9a"
      "uix_sectionLinksStickyStyle" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_separateThreads" => 1
      "uix_shareWidgetModal" => 1
      "uix_sideNavCollapsed" => 0
      "uix_sideNavigationAnimation" => 0
      "uix_sidebarBlockRow" => []
      "uix_sidebarBreakpoint" => "1000px"
      "uix_sidebarIcons" => 0
      "uix_sidebarLocation" => "right"
      "uix_sidebarMobileCanvas" => 1
      "uix_sidebarNavWidth" => "210px"
      "uix_sidebarNavigationStyle" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_sidebarTriggerPhrase" => 0
      "uix_sidebarTriggerPosition" => "sectionLinks"
      "uix_sidebarWidgetAnimations" => 0
      "uix_sidebarWidgetFooter" => []
      "uix_sidebarWidgetHeading" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_sidebarWidgetWrapper" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_signatureHoverEnabled" => 0
      "uix_signatureMaxHeight" => "100"
      "uix_similarScrollNotice" => 1
      "uix_socialMediaIcon" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_socialMediaPosition" => "copyright"
      "uix_staffBarBreakpoint" => "1000px"
      "uix_staffBarTab" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_staffBarTabHover" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_stickyCategoryStrips" => 0
      "uix_stickyNavHeight" => "72px"
      "uix_stickyNavigationStyle" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_stickySectionLinkHeight" => "40px"
      "uix_stickySidebar" => "disabled"
      "uix_stickySidebarCalcDelay" => "100"
      "uix_stickySidenav" => 1
      "uix_stickyStaffBar" => 1
      "uix_stickyStaffBarHeight" => "40px"
      "uix_stickyStaffbarStyle" => []
      "uix_structPaddingH" => "16px"
      "uix_structPaddingV" => "16px"
      "uix_subForumTitle" => array:1 [ …1]
      "uix_swipeSupport" => 0
      "uix_tabBarLocation" => "header"
      "uix_tablinksInSideNav" => 1
      "uix_tag" => []
      "uix_tagHover" => []
      "uix_textSelection" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_threadField" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_threadListSeparator" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_titlebar" => array:5 [ …5]
      "uix_titlebarLocation" => "mainContainerTop"
      "uix_topBreadcrumbLocation" => "aboveMainContainer"
      "uix_transition" => "cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1)"
      "uix_userTabsPosition" => "navigation"
      "uix_version" => "2.2.15.0.2"
      "uix_viewportCenterLogo" => "0px"
      "uix_viewportCollapseStaffLinks" => "1000px"
      "uix_viewportCollapseStats" => "1000px"
      "uix_viewportCondenseVisitorTabs" => "10000px"
      "uix_viewportRemoveRegisterText" => "650px"
      "uix_viewportRemoveVisitorTabsText" => "100000px"
      "uix_viewportShowLogoBlock" => "100%"
      "uix_viewportWidthRemoveSubNav" => "1px"
      "uix_visitorPanelIcons" => 0
      "uix_visitorTabsMobile" => "initial"
      "uix_voteActionButton" => "mobile"
      "uix_welcomeSectionForumListOnly" => 1
      "uix_welcomeSectionIcon__style" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_welcomeSectionInner" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_welcomeSectionLocation" => "sidebar"
      "uix_welcomeSectionOverlay" => ""
      "uix_welcomeSectionText__style" => array:4 [ …4]
      "uix_welcomeSectionTitle__style" => array:2 [ …2]
      "uix_welcomeSectionVisible" => "guests"
      "uix_welcomeSection__buttonText" => "Register"
      "uix_welcomeSection__icon" => ""
      "uix_welcomeSection__style" => array:3 [ …3]
      "uix_welcomeSection__text" => "Get access to live stream, lessons, the post exchange, and chat with other snipers."
      "uix_welcomeSection__title" => "Join the Hide community"
      "uix_welcomeSection__url" => "register"
      "uix_widgetPadding" => "16px"
      "xpress_articleListLayout" => "list"
      "xpress_authorBlock" => array:10 [ …10]
      "xpress_dropcap" => 0
      "xpress_featuredArticleStyle" => "carousel"
      "xpress_featuredExcerptLength" => "150"
      "xpress_featuredItemsCount" => "3"
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      "adavAchievement" => []
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      "audfeeds_tabbar_location" => "aboveMainContent"
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      "designer_mode" => null
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      "attachmentExtensions" => """
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      "attachmentMaxFileSize" => "25000"
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      "audapp_appConfigFailures" => "0"
      "audapp_appConfigKey" => "d3ZYUjJEUEFxdERyOWlWbQ=="
      "audapp_appId" => "com.snipershide.app"
      "audapp_appleBid" => "com.snipershide.app.ios"
      "audapp_appleEnvironment" => "default"
      "audapp_appleSharedSecret" => "f0673ec43fea4ce69a9cab6b362d3738"
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      "audapp_enableInterstitialAds" => "1"
      "audapp_enablePushLog" => "0"
      "audapp_featureToggles" => array:11 [ …11]
      "audapp_googleClientEmail" => "[email protected]"
      "audapp_googlePackageName" => "com.snipershide.app.android"
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      "audapp_iOSAppStoreId" => ""
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      "audfeeds_ajaxTabs" => "1"
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      "audfeeds_createButton" => array:7 [ …7]
      "audfeeds_curatedLimit" => "100"
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      "audfeeds_decay" => "exp"
      "audfeeds_dropdownSelect" => "1"
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      "audfeeds_maxPages" => "1000"
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      "boardTitle" => "Sniper's Hide Forum"
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      "boardUrlCanonical" => "0"
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      "captcha" => "ReCaptcha"
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      "censorWords" => []
      "changeLogLength" => "60"
      "collectServerStats" => array:4 [ …4]
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      "s9e_MediaSites_AMAZON_ASSOCIATE_TAG" => ""
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      "s9e_MediaSites_Footer" => "show"
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      "s9e_MediaSites_Markup" => "media"
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      "th_imageoptimizer_disabledContentTypes" => []
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      "th_instagramUrl_uix" => "https://www.instagram.com/shlowlight"
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      "th_optimizeOnUpload_imageOptimizer" => "1"
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      "th_postbitCollapseDefault_uix" => "all"
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      "th_redditUrl_uix" => ""
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      "th_sidebarNavCollapseDefault_uix" => ""
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      "thconnectedaccountproviders_mapToCustom" => array:2 [ …2]
      "thconnectedaccountproviders_redirectAfterLogout" => ""
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      "thcovers_coverMaxFileSize" => "8192"
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      "thfeature_featurePageSlider" => "1"
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      "thmonetize_excludeSuggestUpgradeGlobal" => []
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      "xfmgAudioExtensions" => """
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      "xfmgCommentsPerPage" => "10"
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      "xfmgLightboxNavigation" => "1"
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      "xfrmResourceCurrencies" => """
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      "xfrmResourceDeleteThreadAction" => array:4 [ …4]
      "xfrmResourceExtensions" => """
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        pdf\n
        png\n
        jpg\n
        jpeg\n
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        gif\n
        psd\n
        tif
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Questions about the use of DMR/Sniper versions of the AR-10 vs M14, etc

Davo308

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I've been reading through an informative book, the long range war-sniping in Vietnam.

Some real clever solutions are seen, many did not succeed.

5192aAHWLKL._SX407_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


The M14 is a venerable rifle but I can't help but wonder about AR-10 rifles, introduced in the late 1950's.

Its apparent that the US military grasped the importance of match ammo, heavy barrels, precision scopes, etc dating back quite a ways.

My question is-why did the military focus on accurizing an M14 based rifle over accurizing the AR-10 rifle?

Was it a lack of familiarity with the AR-10? Was it personal experience with the M-14?

Was it no huge deal in Vietnam where distances were shorter than say Korea or Iraq?

By the time we went back in to Iraq, early 2000's-M-14's were used, was it just an inventory issue?

Thanks in advance!
 
The US military is like an aircraft carrier. Once moving in a direction it takes significant input to change course.
The Army adopted the M14 (T44) as the principle battle rifle in 1959 after trials against the FNFAL (T48), mostly due to weight and the familiarity of its operations by the soldier.
There were over 1.3Million produced, so the various services had PLENTY. In the 70s and 80s, nobody had budgets to allow them to procure commercial rifles and re-engineer them to be reliable and accurate sniper rifles. Those who wanted Precision semi-auto rifles made them on the cheap and so the M21 was made, then the 10th SFG(A) and their M25, NSW with the M14 Sniper Kit, etc.
Real work on large frame AR rifles for sniper use didn't occur until the late 80s. NSWDG had KAC SR-25s to evaluate and develop implementation of in the late 80s or early 90s. They had the funds and made good use of them. Per a guy I knew at Crane, their biggest fits had to do with ammo, cleanliness and carbon buildup running suppressed. Their initial band aid was to develop a special oil, actually a combination of 3 oils, that seemed to keep things moving. KAC eventually worked bugs out with new ejection/extraction parts, firing pin, etc. It was assigned a non-local NSN and designated MK11 Mod0 in 2000, 7 years before Army adopted the M110.
 
The AR-10 seems to have had a somewhat poor track record with production, part quality, and adoption since its inception and by 1960, the rifle's production had been all but fully abandoned with machinery being scrapped and total production numbers being less than 10,000 units. So come the need for a semi-auto sniper rifle in Vietnam that wasn't the outdated M1 Garand, the US had already adopted the M14. Why adopt a new system when you could work on the old one? That's the same thinking behind why the M14 was still in use as a battle rifle (albeit in a limited role) up through at least the 1990s before being brought back out during the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the development of the MK 14 program.

As @NukeMMC mentions, though, in the late 1980s, Eugene Stoner joined KAC and was able to continue working and refining his AR-10 design, taking advantage of what was learned from the development of the M16 up through the then-current A2 model resulting in the SR-25 rifle and its eventual brother the M110.
 
I will only add that the military briefly evaluated the new AR-10 in 1956, but the design was not mature, and there had already been years of prior testing of the T44 (aka M14), so the military trials were basically completed at that point, and the M14 was adopted in May 1957. The Army asked Armalite to develop a smaller caliber version of the AR-10 which was the AR-15 in 5.56mm, and later adopted in 1964(?) as the M16 - likely due its overall controllability in select fire mode - relative to the M14 which was not especially controllable in full-auto. So the main focus was getting M16s into the hands of troops in Vietnam, and I think the AR10 tooling was sold by ArmaLite to a Dutch company around 1957.

The M14 program was canceled in 1963 after only 1.3 million made (it was projected to be up to 5 million made as a 1-for-1 replacement of the US military’s 5 million M1 Garands...long story there).

A few AR-10s were made by the Dutch but export sales were very limited and no further product development took place from roughly 1960 thru 1990. However in 1990 Reed Knight of Knights Armament hired Eugene Stoner who was the engineering genius and inventor behind both the AR-15 and AR-10 platforms - and together during the 1990s they finally developed the AR-10 and renamed it the Stoner Rifle 25 or SR-25.

Reed Knight promoted it, and I read that Crane was interested in it early on. Some SOCOM/ Special Forces guys started field testing an early suppressed version of the SR-25 around 1993 in which the original 24” barrel was shortened to 20” and threaded for a suppressor, but tweaks were needed. (NukeMMC provided some interesting history re engineering refinements and a lubrication topic. I think the original AR-10 “waffleboard” magazines may have been problematic too).

As noted above post, after much testing and refining the rifle, suppressor, and it’s magazines during the 1990s, in 2000 the US Navy at Crane ordered its first 300 SR-25 rifles that became the Mk 11 Mod 0 sniper rifles, and a similar permutation with a flash hider, the M110, was subsequently adopted by the Army and USMC. One of the unique things is the Mk 11 was developed from the get-go as a suppressed weapon system, whereas suppressing the M14 is difficult due to its gas port actuated action, but I digress...

So it was really KAC that resurrected the dormant AR-10 platform by hiring its inventor 30 years ago. Eugene Stoner died in 1997 from cancer, but we can thank his efforts along with Reed Knight during the 1990s for the ultimate development of the Mk 11 Mod 0/1 and M110, etc.


As for the M14 in the 200Xs, yes it was used by the USMC who had about 400 of the dedicated M14 DMRs made beginning in 2000, and many rack grade M14s were also pulled out of storage by the Army and accurized for DMR use as well in Afghanistan and Iraq, as both showed the need for an accurized rifle with a 600 to 800 meter effective range, which the standard 5.56mm cartridge can’t deliver.

Of course the M16 was also developed as a DMR via the Mk 12 program at Crane (the USMC developed their own SAM-R program), with the key development/ ingredient being the Mk 262 cartridge, which used a heavy for caliber 77 grain low drag bullet to increase range out to 600 or more meters. Afghanistan has a lot of very wide open spaces, as does Iraq...unlike Vietnam.
 
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I will only add that the military briefly evaluated the new AR-10 in 1956, but years of prior testing of the T44 (aka M14) was basically completed at that point, and it was adopted in May 1957. The Army asked Eugene Stoner to develop a smaller caliber version of the AR-10 which was the AR-15 in 5.56mm, and later adopted in 1964(?) as the M16 - likely due its overall controllability in select fire mode - relative to the M14 which was not especially controllable in full-auto. So the main focus was getting M16s into the hands of troops in Vietnam, and I think the AR10 tooling was sold by ArmaLite to a Dutch company.

The M14 program was canceled in 1963 after only 1.3 million made (it was projected to be up to 5 million made as a 1-for-1 replacement of the US military’s 5 million M1 Garands...long story there).

A few AR10s were made by the Dutch but export sales were very limited and no further development took place from roughly 1960 thru 1990. However in 1990 Reed Knight of Knights Armament hired Eugene Stoner who was the engineering genius and inventor behind both the AR-15 and AR-10 platforms - and together during the 1990s they finally developed the AR-10 and renamed it the Stoner Rifle 25 or SR-25. I have read that Crane was interested in it, and the SOCOM/ Special Forces guys started field testing an early suppressed version of the SR-25 around 1993 in which the original 24” barrel was shortened to 20” and threaded for a suppressor, but tweaks were needed. (Original AR-10 “waffleboard” magazines may have been problematic, etc).

As noted above post, after much testing and refining the rifle, suppressor, and it’s magazines during the 1990s, in 2000 the US Navy at Crane ordered its first 300 SR-25 rifles that became the Mk 11 Mod 0 sniper rifles, and a similar permutation with a flash hider, the M110, was subsequently adopted by the Army and USMC. One of the unique things is the Mk 11 was developed from the get-go as a suppressed weapon system, whereas suppressing the M14 is difficult due to its gas port actuated action, but I digress...

So it was really KAC that resurrected the dormant AR-10 platform by hiring its inventor 30 years ago. Eugene Stoner died in 1997 from cancer, but we can thank his efforts along with Reed Knight during the 1990s for the ultimate development of the Mk 11 Mod 0/1 and M110, etc.


As for the M14 in the 200Xs, yes it was used by the USMC who had about 400 of the dedicated M14 DMRs made beginning in 2000, and many rack grade M14s were also pulled out of storage by the Army and accurized for DMR use as well in Afghanistan and Iraq, as both showed the need for an accurized rifle with a 600 to 800 meter effective range, which the standard 5.56mm cartridge can’t deliver.

Of course the M16 was also developed as a DMR via the Mk 12 program at Crane (the USMC developed their own SAM-R program), with the key development/ ingredient being the Mk 262 cartridge, which used a heavy for caliber 77 grain low drag bullet to increase range out to 600 or more meters. Afghanistan has a lot of very wide open spaces, as does Iraq...unlike Vietnam.
I recall there were some ultimately-abandoned attempts at developing a DMR/sniper variant of the M16 during the 1960s. One featured an early type of flat-top upper with a low-profile rear sight; the other retained the carry handle. I can't remember the model numbers offhand atm but neither version took off. Hoping NoDak Spud'll produce the flattop upper one day, though.
 
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I recall there were some ultimately-abandoned attempts at developing a DMR/sniper variant of the M16 during the 1960s. One featured an early type of flat-top upper with a low-profile rear sight; the other retained the carry handle. I can't remember the model numbers offhand atm but neither version took off. Hoping NoDak Spud'll produce the flattop upper one day, though.

Senich's book showed several M-16 attempts at a DMR.

Scopes, suppresors, etc-the ingredients were there.
 
Vietnam era M193 ammo was not good enough for any sort of precision fire at more than 300 yards and I think the US military quickly abandoned the idea other than a couple of funky looking prototypes. Afterall, it was 2 to 2.5 plus MOA from 100 to 300 yards...beyond that accuracy and effectiveness dropped way off - and the military knew that. The suppressed versions of the M16 were for close-in work, like 100 yards or less.

Scoped M14s/M21s using M118 match ammo were the actual DMRs of the Vietnam era, not M16s...

The 1980s era M855 ammo was a slight improvement but still a 2 MOA ammo with range limitations. Worked much better regarding penetration of light cover thorough, but still not good enough for a DMR rifle of any sort.

Match shooters knew this too, as M16s were not even used in 600 yard events at the National Matches until Sierra invented the 77gr BTHP circa early 1990ish. Only at that point could the AR-15 platform even be considered for possible DMR use that required an effective range of 500 plus yards and some ability to buck the wind at that range (along with a much slower twist rate barrel).

My understanding is that the SPR Mk 12 was developed in late 1990s bc the Sierra (and Nosler) 77grain low drag bullets made it possibly for the first time to design a viable M16-based DMR with the little 5.56mm round that could actually provide DMR type accuracy (~ 1 MOA) out to 600 yards, and also retain enough energy to be effective at 600 yds.

Considering that history, the concept of a Vietnam pattern M16 configured and actually used a ‘DMR’ rifle is strange in the historical context. It wasn’t until 30 plus years later that such a thing was officially fielded by the military (SPR Mk 12 and SAM-R type DMRs) along with the new Mk 262 ammo. My 2cts.
 
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Coupla pics, both models roughly circa July through October 1967; used for US Army trials but never adopted. Note the XM16E1 lowers, heavier barrels, and A1 birdcages.

Colt Model 655:

1583355515501.png


Colt Model 656 Special Low Profile:


1583355553315.png
 
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The biggest thing was we already had an "up-and-running" system in the M14. The inroad to VietNam for the M-16 was that it was adopted as a "niche" rifle to sort of replace the M1 Carbine. So, there wasn't really a NEED for the AR-10. Sniper rifles of the day were the M70, M40 (then just called a 700) 1903's, M1C & D. Funny, not only did some high-level commanders not want to go to the 5.56, they didn't even want to get away from the 30-06. That's a kind of tangent to this thread.

Anyhow, late in the Vietnam War, Leatherwood got his AR-Tel adopted and the XM-21 was born. So, it wasn't really even until late in the war that sniping with a new semi-auto was considered.

The biggest thing was really that no one on the top level was looking at sniping and laying down standards for it. All that we see today was generated at the field level and rose to the top and got approved (the way it should be, but isn't). So there really wasn't room for another rifle. Nor the channels (and desire) to get one there. Note that most of the sniping was by individuals/small groups procuring the rifles. Not, USG/big brother sending a new rifle over and making snipers use it.

FWIW, the M16 and M16A1 are excellent accuracy platforms using M193 ammunition out to 500 yds. The Marines qualify with it and a ton of experts come out of the Corps. In 1982, the best instruction I ever got on the M16A1 rifle was from a former enlisted Marine, who went on to get his commission and become our S-2, who shot competition with the M16 using M193 ball. The rifle was quite capable, the mindset of leadership was not.
 
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FWIW, the M16 and M16A1 are excellent accuracy platforms using M193 ammunition out to 500 yds.

Well, I think I may have a different definition of "excellent accuracy" with respect to M193. One of the things that the USMC rifle team does is test different lots of ammo at Range 3 and esp Range 4 at Quantico, as not all Lake City ammo is created equally. The lots that shot the best out of certain platforms is set aside and that is what was used in competition.

(Back in the M14 days circa late 1980s/early 1990s, they tested the newly built National Match USMC M14s with Federal "Red Box" 168 BTHP ammo, and M852 ammo, and M118 ammo. The M14s that shot the "Red Box" ammo the best were set aside for the 'short line' at Camp Perry (ie, 200 yard competitions). Those that shot the M118 best were set aside for the 'long line' at Camp Perry (ie, 600 yard events). Specially modified 'Long Range' M14s were also made with modified gas systems that were designed for a specific 1000 yard competition shooting very heavy mojo ammo, etc.). Same type of ammo testing likely applies to today's NM M16 rifles that PWS builds.

However, in a combat environment one does not often get to chose which particular lot of ammo to use, and this is where the issue of being a Designated Marksman and M193 ammo comes into conflict, IMO. Here's my understanding of technical accuracy potential:


"U.S. military specifications for M193 Ball ammunition require a 55
grain bullet (q 2 grains) at a muzzle velocity of 3,250 q 40 fps from a 20
inch test barrel measured 15 feet from the muzzle. The accuracy requirement
from a test fixture calls for a maximum of a two inch mean radius at 200
yards from ten 10 shot groups (which equates to approximately three MOA).
"Statistically average" M193 ranges from 1.2 to 1.6 inches mean radius,
which is equivalent to 1.8 to 2.4 MOA
. Velocity from an M16 rifle or
pressure test barrel usually runs about 3,200 fps due to gas loss through
the port. Accuracy is typically around 2 to 2+ MOA from an M16A1 rifle at
ranges of 100 to 300 yards. M193 ammunition is suitable for use in 1 twist
in 12 inches or faster twists. While commercial sporting rifles in this
caliber usually have one in 14 rifling, the M193 boat tailed bullet is
barely stabilized with that rate of twist at ambient temperatures, and will
not stabilize at all when the air temperature drops below freezing.

"NATO specifications for SS109 (U.S. M855) Ball require a 61.7 grain
(q 1.5 grains) with a hardened steel penetrator at a velocity of 3,025 fps
(q 40 fps) from a 20 inch barrel 25 meters from the muzzle. Typical
velocity 15 feet from the M16A2's muzzle is around 3,100 fps. The accuracy
requirement from a test fixture equates to a maximum of approximately four
MOA over the 100 to 600 yard range
. Typical accuracy of average lots in an
M16A2 is about 2+ MOA
. This round must also penetrate a nominal 10 gauge
SAE 1010 or 1020 steel test plate at a range of at least 570 meters (623
yards). The M193 round will penetrate this same plate reliably at 400
yards, and about half the time at 500 yards. The 5.56mm and 7.62mm NATO
rounds will penetrate it reliably out to 700 yards or more.

Circa 2000, the USMC M14 DMR rifles were required to shoot 5 rds of M118 match ammo into a 3"x3" square at the 300 yard line from the test fixture shack at Quantico, VA. If the rifle could not provide 1 MOA accuracy for 5-rd groups, it was not issued to the fleet, but was returned to the PWS shop for re-work or maybe a re-barrel. I have not asked the old PWS guy the same question re their M16-based DMR black then, the SAM-R, but I believe it was also required to shoot 1 MOA in order to be issued in the Designated Marksman Role. In other words, my understanding is that 1 MOA with 5-rd groups at 300 yards is the technical requirement for a USMC DMR rifle. Any rifle/ammo combo that can't provide that level of precision is not issued to a Designated Marksman...per the guys who made them.

So, my understanding is that M193 ammo out of M16A1/A2/A4 simply won't provide 1-MOA level of accuracy that the Marines required for DMR rifles, at least not in the past 20 years, but I can't speak to pre-2000 era. In contrast, the original Mk 262 ammo spec is not easy to find, but reportedly requires it to hold ~ 1 MOA out to 300 meters. So, while M193 may be good enough to quality with (and most Marines are indeed excellent rifleman), but its technical design specifications - and actual tested performance - are simply not sufficient for use in a precision rifle deployed as a DMR rifle, at least for the past 20 years. (I think the same applied in Vietnam, more or less). The Mk 262 Mod 0 and Mod 1 was a game-changer re the M16's combat role and capabilities...(see attached AMU testing at 300 and 600 yards).

I hope that all made sense.... My 2cts.
 

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Well, I think I may have a different definition of "excellent accuracy" with respect to M193. One of the things that the USMC rifle team does is test different lots of ammo at Range 3 and esp Range 4 at Quantico, as not all Lake City ammo is created equally. The lots that shot the best out of certain platforms is set aside and that is what was used in competition.

(Back in the M14 days circa late 1980s/early 1990s, they tested the newly built National Match USMC M14s with Federal "Red Box" 168 BTHP ammo, and M852 ammo, and M118 ammo. The M14s that shot the "Red Box" ammo the best were set aside for the 'short line' at Camp Perry (ie, 200 yard competitions). Those that shot the M118 best were set aside for the 'long line' at Camp Perry (ie, 600 yard events). Specially modified 'Long Range' M14s were also made with modified gas systems that were designed for a specific 1000 yard competition shooting very heavy mojo ammo, etc.). Same type of ammo testing likely applies to today's NM M16 rifles that PWS builds.

However, in a combat environment one does not often get to chose which particular lot of ammo to use, and this is where the issue of being a Designated Marksman and M193 ammo comes into conflict, IMO. Here's my understanding of technical accuracy potential:




Circa 2000, the USMC M14 DMR rifles were required to shoot 5 rds of M118 match ammo into a 3"x3" square at the 300 yard line from the test fixture shack at Quantico, VA. If the rifle could not provide 1 MOA accuracy for 5-rd groups, it was not issued to the fleet, but was returned to the PWS shop for re-work or maybe a re-barrel. I have not asked the old PWS guy the same question re their M16-based DMR black then, the SAM-R, but I believe it was also required to shoot 1 MOA in order to be issued in the Designated Marksman Role. In other words, my understanding is that 1 MOA with 5-rd groups at 300 yards is the technical requirement for a USMC DMR rifle. Any rifle/ammo combo that can't provide that level of precision is not issued to a Designated Marksman...per the guys who made them.

So, my understanding is that M193 ammo out of M16A1/A2/A4 simply won't provide 1-MOA level of accuracy that the Marines required for DMR rifles, at least not in the past 20 years, but I can't speak to pre-2000 era. In contrast, the original Mk 262 ammo spec is not easy to find, but reportedly requires it to hold ~ 1 MOA out to 300 meters. So, while M193 may be good enough to quality with (and most Marines are indeed excellent rifleman), but its technical design specifications - and actual tested performance - are simply not sufficient for use in a precision rifle deployed as a DMR rifle, at least for the past 20 years. (I think the same applied in Vietnam, more or less). The Mk 262 Mod 0 and Mod 1 was a game-changer re the M16's combat role and capabilities...(see attached AMU testing at 300 and 600 yards).

I hope that all made sense.... My 2cts.
Okay, So I was in the 1st Ranger Bn from 1981-1985 2 1/2 years on the line and 1 1/2 years in S-3. We were issued exclusively M193. It shot outstanding. I shot a 98, a 99, and a 100 for score one qualification in 1983. I don't know why we did this but we did. It was shot on a 1000 inch range, which is about 25.4m. No X-ring, just a 10-9-8-etc. Each ring is 1cm. The course of fire was 10 rounds, best of 3 groups. If you translated that to 100m, that is about 1 moa. None of us were competition shooters, and none of us had scopes. The scope(s) we had for the M16A1 was this dinky little POS, TASCO. Tasco actually made some good scopes, but this appeared to be their little .22LR POS. It was attached like the carry handle scopes of today, except the mount was banded to the scope.

During live fires, and we shot a ton of them, it would hit consistently out to 500+ yds. The courses were usually set up with 7-10 pop up targets (full torso and head) and a bunker as the final obj. I did not understand it then, but the 1-12" twist was the limiting factor in how far the M193 would remain stable, therefore accurate. From the 1-12" twist that is about 700 yds. in std. conditions. Just over 600m.

I will tell you from experience that M193 ammo IS accurate enough to be a DMR, even a sniper, capable round.

Further, when I was in, the M14 didn't enjoy much Army, or even Marine, love. If it was ever carried, and that was not often by any unit at that time, it was as a squad automatic weapon. More immediate firepower. The 60 could follow up. The major exception to that is anyone who had sniper rifles was usually using the M21. The national match accurized M14 with the ART II scope. I did not see AR-Tels, if I could even distinguish them. Snipers at that time, actually filled more of a DMR role than what we read about in Viet Nam. There was so little love for the M14 from the military at the time, 1.4M M14's were destroyed under Bush Sr. and Clinton. Each about 700k. And hardly a peep from any branch of the military as they all figured they had something better on the horizon.

The M16A2 came out as I was getting out and I did not handle one in my time in. My thought when they came out was GREAT! only to find out it pretty much went in all the wrong directions of the needs of the time. The original M855 with the steel core penetrators were not all that accurate. That according to people I knew. Long after the Battle of Mogadishu, I understand they dropped the steel core. I have bunches of 62gr. bullets that are not magnetic. And, I've had a few lots of bullets that were magnetic. They were able to hit out to 800m consistently. But, as you noted, nothing to brag about for DMR/Sniper accuracy.

Mk262 came out a long time after the -A2. The 1-7" twist was used as it was required to stabilize the M856 tracer. Not because we were going in a better direction ballistically. Some mindsets never change. That is the one great thing about what the -A2 started.

Fast forward to GWOT and what M14s that were converted. Most were utilized not as uber long range weapons, rather something that was able to bust mud and mortar walls. Yes it gave more hitting power at distance, but the vast majority was for wall penetration. Yeah, they can be sort of accurate. But, not as good as other systems. It does amaze me that no one on the engineering side saw that what they really needed were recoil lugs. They went forever without them. When the M25 was being underground tested it showed that ANY piece of machinery, with the bugs worked out, can be precise. That got shitcanned as 'playing against the rules'. We go to war. A contracted company hands me a weapon they've never been to combat with and say, "Use this." It fails, we figure out what's wrong so we can increase our survivability. They say nothing is wrong, and NO you can't make changes. That's fucked up.

The M14 was never a bad weapon, it was just never fixed into what it could be. By the time it was, the various variants of the AR-10 came along, and with a lot less work, got accurized. For all intents and purposes, the military never even gave a second look at the AR-10 as a platform until at least the mid-90's.
 
The AR10 was kind of a disaster in the M14 trials. Armalite decided to install experimental aluminum sleeved barrels on the trial guns. The barrels failed and the guns were otherwise suffering from some not quite ready details of it's brand new design. If the barrels would have been traditional steel, the AR10 would have done better in the trials but the M14 still had the deck stacked in it's favor.

The FAL got screwed in a different way. First the U.S. strong armed NATO in to adopting 7.62x51 so the FAL had to be redesigned, then the trials were held using the same environmental chambers that the M14 design had been developed on. Despite all that, the FAL still did pretty damn good but the M14 was adopted because they said the M14 could be made on M1 Garand tooling which was a lie.

By the time Vietnam happened, there were probably very few people in the military who knew the AR10 existed and probably no one who thought it could be a good accuracy platform or that it could be adopted by the military when they already had lots of M14s laying around. I don't think it could have happened.

I think it is kind of funny watching people spend $4-5,000 on a 1 MOA M1A when I can build an LR308 type rifle that will out shoot it for around $1,500. It's kind of funny watching people spend even more on a KAC. It must be nice I guess.

Long story short, the original AR10 is a footnote of history and not the same as what is calling itself "AR10" today. Large frame ARs are much more of a civilian thing than military these days.
 
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The M16 broke every M14 service record by 1993, including scoring higher at 1000 yards in competition.

The M14 was never a wonder rifle, and the one used recently were pretty much shit dropped into fancy chassis.

I knew one Spec Ops group, foreign that used them a lot for subsonic shooting because they can easily reach up and rack the charging handle. The used it as a single shot rifle with a suppressor that Crane built them.

The big Army ones were a joke accuracy wise.
 
<chuckle> I cringe every time I think of when the Drill Instructors in boot camp had us scrap the carbon from the crowns of our M-16's...with a coat hanger. (And I still easily shot Expert)

Years later I recall shooting a Divisional match ('92 Eastern Div), and having to stand in line at the armory after drawing weapons, so they could weight the triggers to make sure thy were at least 7.5#'s on the light sear. Iron sights and all, I still had a rapid fire string (sitting position) at 300yds with 8 shots covered by a half dollar. The other two shots (first mag), were touching and two inches to the left. Those military "rack grade" M-16's could be very accurate.

All that being said, thank God for better triggers and optics these days...
 
The M16 broke every M14 service record by 1993, including scoring higher at 1000 yards in competition.

The M14 was never a wonder rifle, and the one used recently were pretty much shit dropped into fancy chassis.

I knew one Spec Ops group, foreign that used them a lot for subsonic shooting because they can easily reach up and rack the charging handle. The used it as a single shot rifle with a suppressor that Crane built them.

The big Army ones were a joke accuracy wise.
And when Tippie shot the 500-25x on the 10-man Team at 93 Interservice with a 14, everyone was still talking about it at Perry. That was the year the AMU summer team went to Perry with M16s and opened EVERYONE's eyes with some outstanding rapid scores. The Marine G4 M14s still (barely) ruled at 1000 but the 90gr JLKs with John Holliger's Pac-Nor 3-groove 1:6.5" barrels were showing everyone how it could be done without beating the crap out of shooters and rifles.
93 was the year the Marine Team just about swept the Nationals for the Service Teams. I know they handily won the Dogs of War Trophy and the NTIT. That was guys like Tippie, Kistler, Marty Cole, etc.
Not 100% sure, but I believe that 94 was the first year the Marine and AMU teams were 100% M16 at Interservice & Perry.
 
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NukeMMC knows way more than I've ever know re 1990s National match history, but I have read that two ammo/bullet developments transformed the M16 at the National Matches in the early-to-mid 1990s. The AMU was very successful with these new bullet designs, and after a couple of years getting beat by the AMU team, I think it finally convinced the USMC to give up the M14 and move to the match M16s around 1995 or 1996 . Here were the two breakthroughs, to the best of my knowledge:

1. Sierra introduced the 77gr BTHP in circa early 1990s that allowed the M16 to shoot magazine length rounds out to 600 yards with a decent ballistic coefficient (BC) for wind deflection. (Its G1 BC was .372, which was very good for that era).

2. 1992 Sierra released the 80 grain BTHP for the AMU team, who used it extensively for single-loading the M16 for the 600 yard line (and maybe 1000 yard too?). Note: It was loaded long at 2.550" and thus was a single-load only cartridge, but with a phenomenal G1 ballistic coefficient of .461, it was the equal of M118....but with much less recoil and I think it quickly de-throned the M14s at Camp Perry - at least that's my reading of events.

Not 100% sure, but I believe that 94 was the first year the Marine and AMU teams were 100% M16 at Interservice & Perry. ]

I think a retired USMC precision armorer that I know implied it was 1996 - but I could be wrong. One of my prized M14 possessions is a NOS June 1995 dated USMC M14 barrel made by Gene Barnett specifically for the USMC rifle team. I think perhaps 50 were made, and they were used on some the last of the USMC match M14s. I had my retired PWS guy stamp it with the old 'RTE-P" stamp, and its still short chambered, as its never been installed. The "REV 1" spec was related to the gas cylinder mating surface/shoulder being pushed forward about 0.010" to negate the need for any shims. It has no gas port on it either, as that was only drilled after the gas cylinder was fitted to the barrel. Also a very long rear handguard clip slot for reasons unknown to me. Here's a pic:

1995_USMC_REV_1_M14_barrel.jpg


Here's my project. It's ready to be built in 2020, just needs the front lug. It will be a replica of the last of the USMC Match M14s...

USMC match M14 parts_left_side_v2.jpg


Unfortunately I certainly will not be able to shoot such a rifle to its accuracy potential given my middle-aged eye sight, but I think it will be a neat replica build with a USMC take-off stock and various other take-off parts. Its sort of a 'Last of the Mohicans' kind of tribute build....

I'm guessing that NukeMMC might know some of these USMC rifle team members circa early to mid-1990s...( Billy Ray Williamson (?) bottom left and Julia Watson on bottom right)

USMC team_pic_early_1990s.jpg


Some of the Barnett barrels on these USMC match rifles are dated 12/95, so I call them: 'The Last of the Mohican's', as the Marines reportedly migrated to NM M16s around that time.

USMC_match_M14s_1_angle.jpg


Apologizes for the digression....
 
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I have to say on the tangent of M16’s on this thread, I saw 69 gr. Sierra’s and 68gr. Hornady’s before I saw 77 and 75 gr. HPBT’s. It seems to me I saw them when I lived in Nevada, so that would be between 1986-1990. I remember not buying them as I had no rifle with a tight enough twist.

9 Years later in MN I bought many boxes of them in the cardboard/metal reinorced boxes. Those bullets are very accurate in 1-9” twist rifles. They will easily make it to 1K. They do drift more than 77’s.

Added: The first 77's I shot was in 1999. Black Hills ammo. I had not gotten set up yet to reload again so was at the mercy of buying ammo. Sure makes you not want to shoot semi-auto!
 
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More good reading, contemporary, too.

My reading was that it's more of an academic work than a 'how to'. I suspect that one could get into considerable trouble trying to make it so.

There were also (from my own limited viewpoint) a very few pretty disappointing misidentifications of firearms, and maybe a few other things that I either misunderstood, or were really odd. I'm no authority and could be dead wrong, too.

It really rocked my boat, and brought home to me that I'd never make the grade doing any of the stuff it depicts.

I think I learned some (scary?) things too.

Greg
 
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Any
The M16 broke every M14 service record by 1993, including scoring higher at 1000 yards in competition.

The M14 was never a wonder rifle, and the one used recently were pretty much shit dropped into fancy chassis.

I knew one Spec Ops group, foreign that used them a lot for subsonic shooting because they can easily reach up and rack the charging handle. The used it as a single shot rifle with a suppressor that Crane built them.

The big Army ones were a joke accuracy wise.
Any Idea what bullets were used and when? ADDED: RE-69's and 77's

That whole transformation in that period from light bullets to heavy bullets is fascinating.
 
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I bought an M21 for personal reasons. We used the M14s in the Navy and as a gunners mate I saw these rifles every day. My M21 doesnt have nearly the consistency of the modern AR10s, but Im not expecting it to.

Id love another M1a in my inventory. This time a shorty in an old wooden stock. Something about these M1a/M14/M21 models just looks so appealing to me. I guess thats why the old muscle cars never lose the nostalgia.

Pic I found on the net of a shorty that Id like to have one day
1583740063032.png
 
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Well, from my perspective as an SDM instructor at Ft. Lewis in 02-04, we were stuck teaching SDM's using rack grade M4's with bipods, ACOGs and an expedient M14 shooting sling we came up with. We'd use M16 lowers in training but they had to resort back to their shitty collapsible stocks after school.

One day we went down to the warehouse where the M14's were kept. Tons of 'em. We went back and begged and begged but they just wouldn't release 'em to us. At the same time, our buddies in SF group had just got the new SAGE chassis and we had the idea to marry 'em up, get some Leupold MR/T's and go to town (I know, not best optic but we're talking army here, M107 came with a goddamn LR/T and no MOA FWIW). We jokinly asked for SR25s and uh, they got the joke. Unfortunately. Nobody was buying us new rifles, let alone good ones. Not yet anyway.

Fast forward to after I get out, they deploy one time and now depending on unit SDM's can get anything from an accurized M14 to a new M110. All unit depending and IME it depends on how much the Bde. commander cares about marksmanship. If he cares he'll make shit happen. If he doesn't, then the scout platoons and snipers and SDM's get armed with most basic, bottom barrel shit.

M14 IMO wasn't accurate enough to be a true sniper rifle but it could easily fill the role of a DMR rifle and they had tons of 'em and it wouldn't have been any skin off their ass to have given them to us, but hey, army bullshit and red tape comes before saving lives. I prefer the SR25 and the 16" chrome lined version is probably THE ideal DMR rifle IMO. Though I like my 20" and fixed stock. I just feel that one offers the most, being similar size to M4, same controls and M4 and from a distance it appears to be another M4 helping to prevent the SDM from being singled out. Chrome lining doesn't do too much to hinder accuracy in a cut rifle KAC barrel enough to worry about in a DMR rifle but it sure makes it last longer in the role it's intended for, since the SDM rifle will serve as a typical rifle in a rifle team probably 90% of the time it's shot.

As for AR10's there's only ever been one AR10 used by army --KAC SR25. They did dick around with an AR10 way back in ('56?) but Sudan bought 'em and we didn't. It was during the FAL/M14/7.62/.280 fiasco in the late 50's/60's. M14 was always gonna win that, it was an updated Garand for fuck's sake and this is America. Ony thing AR10 did was catch LeMay's eye so he could get it reduced to the AR15 size package and the rest of that is history. But AR10 was never even on the radar at the time, a real battle rifle at that time had to have a wood stock and steel guts and no question as to it's durability and AR10 did not inspire that. Also I understand original AR10's had some problems that they don't today, but I doubt that had as much to do with it as the fact it wasn't made from a Garand.
 
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Well, from my perspective as an SDM instructor at Ft. Lewis in 02-04, we were stuck teaching SDM's using rack grade M4's with bipods, ACOGs and an expedient M14 shooting sling we came up with. We'd use M16 lowers in training but they had to resort back to their shitty collapsible stocks after school.

Thanks for that info and your service. It sounds like you just missed the window for some of the accurized M14s that were sent to Iraq. About 200 accurized M14 Squad Designated Marksman rifles known as the M21A5 or SEI 'Crazy Horse' SDM rifle were deployed in late 2004 thru 2007, and few more after that. Based on Lee Emerson's book on the M14: The 2nd Infantry Division got 110 in 2005. In 2006 the US Army 502nd Infantry Regiment 101st Airborne Division in Iraq got 26 of the M21A5s. The 25th Infantry Division, 4th Battalion 9th Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team 2nd Infantry Division got I think 23 of them in 2007. 10th SFG got 3 rifles in 2007, and a few others.

I think these were considered 1 to 2 MOA rifles with M118LR. I'm going to build a replica of one of these at some point.
This was basically a stopgap measure until the SAGE stock M14 EBRs were fielded in 2007-08 time period, although the EBR's lost the sound suppressor capability. Just a random fyi.
 

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Any Idea what bullets were used and when? ADDED: RE-69's and 77's

That whole transformation in that period from light bullets to heavy bullets is fascinating.

I don't have the reference in front of me, but I think the 77gr SMK came out b/t 1990-1992. The US Army Marksmanship Training Unit did not think the lighter bullets were suitable for 600 yard matches until the 77 and 80 grain SMK bullets became available. I do know that the 80gr BTHP came out in 1992, and Sierra made it at specific request of the AMU team. They were called the "V8" load and allowed an M16A2 to compete at 600 yards, although it was a single-load only round. Black Hills won a small contract in 1996 to load that round for the AMU team.

The 77gr was the real game-changer as it could be loaded to magazine length, for both the M16A2 as a competition rifle, and ultimately about 10 years later as a DMR with the MK 262 ammo. I think the reign of the NM M14 pretty much ended when the 77gr bullet was effectively used by the AMU team around 1992-93-94 period. Maybe others know what specific year they came out? Attached is a brief history as outlined by Black Hills ammo.
 

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I don't have the reference in front of me, but I think the 77gr SMK came out b/t 1990-1992. The US Army Marksman Training Unit did not think the lighter bullets were suitable for 600 yard matches until the 77 and 80 grain SMK bullets became available. I do know that the 80gr BTHP came out in 1992, and Sierra made it at specific request of the AMU team. They were called the "V8" load and allowed an M16A2 to compete at 600 yards, although it was a single-load only round.

Black Hills won a small contract in 1996 to load that round for the AMU team. The 77gr was the real game-changer as it could be loaded to magazine length. Maybe others know what specific year they came out? Attached is a brief history as outlined by Black Hills ammo.
That would about make sense as to how long it was used by the AMU, then released in the wild. Six to eight years from when it went to them and then to us.

I remember thinking about the 69 gr. bullets and I had to stop and think back then, there were NO bolt guns with twists tight enough to handle them. Part of my thinking for so many years the M16A2 was great is that it would stabilize a 69 where nothing else would. Ha ha, come to find out, I know of no military entity who used them out in the wild.

I do know that about the time 69's came out, the 6mm was gaining fashion in tight twisted barrels. Skip Talbot, from my hometown (and our gunsmith), was creating new 6mm's to shoot in competition. He was a big advocate of the 6-.284. Which is why I own one.
 
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John Feamster's Black Magic and Zediker's Competitive AR15 have lots of info on the M16 National Match transition, as well as the ammunition transition.

Colonel Mac Johnson assumed command of the USAMU and in 1993 directed the team to start shooting M16s and M9s. This kicked off the gun and ammo design race to use the current, issue infantryman's weapons.

Initial ammunition loads were 69-grain Sierra Match Kings and the USAMU 80-grain Match King load for 600-yards called "V-8." This was the 8th try and the most precise ammo loaded with Vihta Vuori N-135.

Marine Sergeant Lew Tippie won the 1993 Interservice Championships with a score of 250-25X. SFC Kenneth Gill was the 1994 Service Rifle Champion and Specialist Chris Hatcher won The President's Match; SGT Tobie Tomlinson won in 1995, Corporal Kevin McMahon was second, and SFC John O. Chubb set a record in The President's Match with a 298-12X; the Marines trailed the Army Team in the Infantry Match by 200 points; SGT Grant Singly won in 1996 and 1998.

In 1997 the USAMU won nearly all the trophies in matches a Soldier could point a rifle.

Guys who were sentimental about M14s were getting beat by youngsters shooting M16s. Marine Staff Sergeant Julia Watson won in 1999 with an M16.

As for the AR-10 as a sniper rifle, guys like SFC Earl Waterman on the USAMU team grudgingly admitted during selection trials the AR-10 was more accurate than the M21 -- they just didn't like it -- it wasn't a wood-and-steel rifle.
 
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I've been reading through an informative book, the long range war-sniping in Vietnam.

Some real clever solutions are seen, many did not succeed.

5192aAHWLKL._SX407_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


The M14 is a venerable rifle but I can't help but wonder about AR-10 rifles, introduced in the late 1950's.

Its apparent that the US military grasped the importance of match ammo, heavy barrels, precision scopes, etc dating back quite a ways.

My question is-why did the military focus on accurizing an M14 based rifle over accurizing the AR-10 rifle?

Was it a lack of familiarity with the AR-10? Was it personal experience with the M-14?

Was it no huge deal in Vietnam where distances were shorter than say Korea or Iraq?

By the time we went back in to Iraq, early 2000's-M-14's were used, was it just an inventory issue?

Thanks in advance!
Was this a good read.
 
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