Rifle Scopes RAzor HD AMG or NF ATACR?

[onthex]

I am currently trying decide between a NF ATACR 5-25x56 and the Vortex Razor HD AMG 6-24x50 for my new build and would appreciate advice. I will try to give as much info as I can below to help. Also, if you have looked through both scopes side by side please mention that in your reply. I am a newbie here, and I really appreciate the help!

My new rifle is an Impact Action with a Bartlein Varmint Sendero contour barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor on a Grayboe Renegade stock. This gun will be used both for hunting whitetail deer at 300-800 yards and for shooting steel at my local PRS range out to 1000 yards (I shoot for fun, not comp). Because of the distances I shoot at I prefer FFP, I am an MRAD guy, I really like the EBR-2C and EBR-7 reticles, and weight is a consideration since I hunt (which is why I will not consider the Gen II Razor HD). I often hunt at dusk, so lowlight capabilities matter to me. A 30mm tube is fine with me, as I am not worried about extreme elevation adjustment. My max budget is $2,500 and I can get the Razor HD AMG NIB from a local source for $1,800 right now. Please let me know if any of you need more info and thanks again for the help!

 

[HoustonB77]

For $1800 I would buy the razor. That's a heck of a deal for great glass.

 

[bgavin]

This.

Hard to beat at that price

 

[AF_TT]

I've been looking at the same optics and a few others. For the price the AMG is a solid choice. If your source has more than one let me know.

 

[onthex]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry AF_TT, he only has one.

If they were the same price would you all still pic the Razor AMG?

 

[onthex]

Thanks. I really do like the reticle, and hearing that advice from someone who has owned both means something.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Ebr7-B is one of my favorite reticles. I loved all my NF scopes but in your case, I would take the AMG. It's a hell of a scope for the money.

 

[Clownbuster]

+1 for the Razor. Being a backcountry backpack hunter, I replaced all my ATACRs with AMGs. Tracks, clear, great lowlight, lightweight, LR scope with IMO, better reticle offering. But what works for my eye may not work for yours...

 

[onthex]

Clownbuster, I only have one eye that works so clarity means a great deal! LOL

 

[longshot2000]

If they were the same price would you all still pic the Razor AMG?

Same price, ATACR wins in my book. No offense to the replies here, but there is no comparison in terms of quality and build. If you really like the Razor reticles, then that is a real edge for your choice. Razor is good scope, and if you have problems, their warranty is second to none.

As a dealer of both scopes, the NF is build to throw down the road and run over and keep using. We see very few NF scopes go back for warranty work. Those that do are very well serviced without issue. We do see a fair number of Razors and customers who have warranty claims, and Vortex provides a new scope or repairs. The AMG's have a smaller tube, but we have heard of fewer issues with the AMG.

Since you are using for hunting, you have less of a need for a tactical battle ready scope, and the Vortex is a good pick. Glass quality on the Razor is very good. Is the image and clarity and tracking as good as the ATACR? I think you will get mixed reviews, but both are good. The ATACR is more beefy, so it will weight a bit more, which matters if you are backpacking.

My score (for you) is like this:

Quality and build NF
Image, Clarity, Usability even
Resale value NF
Usability of Reticle RZR
Weight RZR
Price RZR

Sounds like you have made your mind up, and I am sure you will be happy.

 

[Clownbuster]

Clownbuster, I only have one eye that works so clarity means a great deal! LOL

Lol, I meant to say that IMO, scope clarity is subjective to the viewer. What may look like the finest, most clear image I've ever seen may not look that great through another's eye.

 

[Clownbuster]

Same price, ATACR wins in my book. No offense to the replies here, but there is no comparison in terms of quality and build. If you really like the Razor reticles, then that is a real edge for your choice. Razor is good scope, and if you have problems, their warranty is second to none.

As a dealer of both scopes, the NF is build to throw down the road and run over and keep using. We see very few NF scopes go back for warranty work. Those that do are very well serviced without issue. We do see a fair number of Razors and customers who have warranty claims, and Vortex provides a new scope or repairs. The AMG's have a smaller tube, but we have heard of fewer issues with the AMG.

Since you are using for hunting, you have less of a need for a tactical battle ready scope, and the Vortex is a good pick. Glass quality on the Razor is very good. Is the image and clarity and tracking as good as the ATACR? I think you will get mixed reviews, but both are good. The ATACR is more beefy, so it will weight a bit more, which matters if you are backpacking.

My score (for you) is like this:

Quality and build NF
Image, Clarity, Usability even
Resale value NF
Usability of Reticle RZR
Weight RZR
Price RZR

Sounds like you have made your mind up, and I am sure you will be happy.

Agreed. To me the eye box seems more forgiving on the NF and I like the glass a little better. It they weren't so heavy, they'd still be on my hunters.

 

[onthex]

Thanks for the honest feedback, John. Yes, I went on and bought the Razor earlier this evening. I figure at that price I can move it quickly if I don't like it. Plus there was no tax or shipping, so I saved several hundred dollars over the NF.

Also, I just went to your online store. I lost the sight in my right eye a little while back, and hand to switch to shooting southpaw. I am currently building three new rifles (the 6.5 Creedmoor mentioned, a 300 Win. Mag and a 5.56). I will definitely be going to your store, and I appreciate your feedback.

 

[Wyzrd]

Not the 5-25, but I’ve owned the 4-16 Atacr F1, and currently own the AMG. Both are awesome scopes but I got the AMG for a hunting rifle and wanted the lighter weight and higher magnification. I do plan on getting another Atacr F1, probably a 5-25, but I’ll probably wait til their new reticle is out. Anyways, both awesome scopes, but for that price, I’d be all over the AMG!

 

[sstacllc]

I'm biased towards Nightforce but for good reason. I've got 6 of them and I've had zero issue with any of them in 4 years of hard use. I used to have a bunch of Vortex scopes and they are a solid company, make great scopes and have great customer service. Since I moved out west I notice the amber tint to the Vortex and was having trouble seeing browns and grays in the desert. There are a few new reticle options coming out with NF and they may be worth the wait

 

[onthex]

Lol, I meant to say that IMO, scope clarity is subjective to the viewer. What may look like the finest, most clear image I've ever seen may not look that great through another's eye.

I understand. Yes, clarity is very subjective. I mainly shoot long range with two different friend's, both of whom I admire and respect. One has a couple of Razors and the other a couple of ATACTRs. I have looked through both, and they both seem excellent to me. Unfortunately, I have never shot with both guys at the same time, so I can't compare side by side. Currently I have one Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP, two Viper PST FFPs in 6-24x50 and one Bushnell Elite FFP 6-24x50. I like all four, but none are as clear as either the Razor HD AMG or the ATACR. Given the earlier feedback I went on and bought the AMG today. Price and reticle were the determining factors. I figure both are gonna have great glass.

Besides, I am already working on two other builds, so I have an excuse to get an ATACR, soon, too!

 

[sstacllc]

I understand. Yes, clarity is very subjective. I mainly shoot long range with two different friend's, both of whom I admire and respect. One has a couple of Razors and the other a couple of ATACTRs. I have looked through both, and they both seem excellent to me. Unfortunately, I have never shot with both guys at the same time, so I can't compare side by side. Currently I have one Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP, two Viper PST FFPs in 6-24x50 and one Bushnell Elite FFP 6-24x50. I like all four, but none are as clear as either the Razor HD AMG or the ATACR. Given the earlier feedback I went on and bought the AMG today. Price and reticle were the determining factors. I figure both are gonna have great glass.

Besides, I am already working on two other builds, so I have an excuse to get an ATACR, soon, too!

Right on

 

[patriot07]

If money was the same or I had enough cash that the price difference didn't matter, I'd go with the ATACR. If the price difference was $700-$1k and money mattered, I'd go with the AMG.

 

[sstacllc]

If money was the same or I had enough cash that the price difference didn't matter, I'd go with the ATACR. If the price difference was $700-$1k and money mattered, I'd go with the AMG.

that's a fair answer

 

[Lmatt]

Currently sitting on my couch looking out through a window at a fence line with tall grass about 900 yards away. 7-35 ATACR & AMG both set at 24x. ATACR is way better to my eye. Enough so that I’m wondering if the parallax is messed up on the AMG.

 

[sstacllc]

Currently sitting on my couch looking out through a window at a fence line with tall grass about 900 yards away. 7-35 ATACR & AMG both set at 24x. ATACR is way better to my eye. Enough so that I’m wondering if the parallax is messed up on the AMG.

7-35 is on another level. Hard to describe I'm not an optical guru but I know that some coatings make certain colors really pop and that looks good to us and sells glass. Sometimes those same coating make certain colors really hard to see. I was shooting a team match with KevinD and he there was an unpainted target hidden in clump of sage brush and there was a tree between us and the target. The shot was balistically clear but plenty of guys could not find the target. Kevin had a Vortex I had the 7-35. He couldn't see the target at all. Needless to say he used my rifle to hit it sold his Vortexes and is shooting NFs now.

 

[onthex]

7-35 is on another level. Hard to describe I'm not an optical guru but I know that some coatings make certain colors really pop and that looks good to us and sells glass. Sometimes those same coating make certain colors really hard to see. I was shooting a team match with KevinD and he there was an unpainted target hidden in clump of sage brush and there was a tree between us and the target. The shot was balistically clear but plenty of guys could not find the target. Kevin had a Vortex I had the 7-35. He couldn't see the target at all. Needless to say he used my rifle to hit it sold his Vortexes and is shooting NFs now.

Scott, if I understand you correctly you are saying that comparing the 7-35 with a 6-24 (even at the same magnification) is not apples to apples? Is that right?

 

[sstacllc]

Scott, if I understand you correctly you are saying that comparing the 7-35 with a 6-24 (even at the same magnification) is not apples to apples? Is that right?

Yup pretty much. Not close IMHO, but again full disclosure I'm pretty biased and I'm on NF pro-staff

 

[Covertnoob5]

I’ll echo @sstacllc sentiments. I’ve had no less than 4 AMG’s and about 4 7-35’s (every reticle) and used them in matches. The AMG is great for what it is and a steal at $1800. That said, if you aren’t on a budget the 7-35 is awesome. I had one on my AXMC that I took hunting and I used it as a spotting scope at times. The clarity and resolution even at 35x is really amazing.
When I had my first 7-35 I was able to compare it to my TT525P at the time and honestly yes the TT was better, but damn if it wasn’t splitting testicle hairs. I actually ended up selling my TT525P and keeping the 7-35 (sac religious I know).
I would also say the 7-35 is a tick sharper than the 5-25 as well. NF changed something in the coatings in the 7-36 that’s way above my head.

 

[EXSOCAL]

I love my three AMG’s but they all live in my long range hunting rifles and a lightweight AR10. Work rifles and match rifles wear S&B’s and Nightforce ATACR’s. The AMG’s have been 100% dead on reliable in every which way through some of the nastiest hunting conditions you could ever expose an optic to. I have 100% confidence in the scope and in my mind, it is a near perfect hunting scope - locking turrets, illuminated reticle, great reticle design, good magnification range, rock solid and great glass.

That said, I run the S&B PMII for work related stuff for two main reasons - 1. The glass IS without a doubt better and sitting behind a rifle for a long time at the range, my eyes appreciate the quality of the S&B glass... 2. The extra 10 ounces the PMII weighs is of no concern on a work rifle or match rifle. My hunting rifle weighs in at 11 lbs fully dressed out. My other rifles are 16-18 lbs which is a bit much to carry around the hills all day.

As was mentioned, bang for the buck, the AMG is hard to beat and definitely no slouch in the glass department or any other aspect. Someone mentioned the resale of the Nightforce stuff being better than Vortex and I’m not sure this is true. People are well aware of Vortex’s stellar warranty so you literally have nothing to loose by buying a scope on the used market. Nightforce is great too but just not quite to the level of Vortex. Used AMG’s generally go for around 1900-2200 on the used market which is petty respectably considering you can find em on sale at times for around that price and less if your on Vortex’s Mil / LE program.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Optics should be purposefully purchased.

Forget how much it costs (if you have the means to do so).

Your primary use is hunting.

You like the reticle
It’s lightweight
Locking turrets
If you drop it down a mountain, you get a new one from Vortex

The AMG wins 10/10 times for your intended purpose, regardless of price.


If you were planning on using it for some other purpose, the atacr may be the better optic.

I know you already bought it, just giving an example of how to look at it.

 

[sstacllc]

I love my three AMG’s but they all live in my long range hunting rifles and a lightweight AR10. Work rifles and match rifles wear S&B’s and Nightforce ATACR’s. The AMG’s have been 100% dead on reliable in every which way through some of the nastiest hunting conditions you could ever expose an optic to. I have 100% confidence in the scope and in my mind, it is a near perfect hunting scope - locking turrets, illuminated reticle, great reticle design, good magnification range, rock solid and great glass.

That said, I run the S&B PMII for work related stuff for two main reasons - 1. The glass IS without a doubt better and sitting behind a rifle for a long time at the range, my eyes appreciate the quality of the S&B glass... 2. The extra 10 ounces the PMII weighs is of no concern on a work rifle or match rifle. My hunting rifle weighs in at 11 lbs fully dressed out. My other rifles are 16-18 lbs which is a bit much to carry around the hills all day.

As was mentioned, bang for the buck, the AMG is hard to beat and definitely no slouch in the glass department or any other aspect. Someone mentioned the resale of the Nightforce stuff being better than Vortex and I’m not sure this is true. People are well aware of Vortex’s stellar warranty so you literally have nothing to loose by buying a scope on the used market. Nightforce is great too but just not quite to the level of Vortex. Used AMG’s generally go for around 1900-2200 on the used market which is petty respectably considering you can find em on sale at times for around that price and less if your on Vortex’s Mil / LE program.

Ive got the ATACR 4-16x50 FFP on my hunting rifles and 4-16x42 on my ARs for predators

 

[B-P-UU]

Ive got the ATACR 4-16x50 FFP on my hunting rifles and 4-16x42 on my ARs for predators

The 4-16's are about as perfect of a hunting optic that I've found.

 

[generalzip]

DThomas is spot on. For LR hunting the AMG is the obvious choice. For a dedicated PRS rig, I'd go with the Razor Gen 2. Between the Razor and 5-25 ATACR I honestly like the Razor more and it's cheaper. That said, I've only played with the ATACR on other people's guns and own 2 Razors. The 7-35 ATACR is another story however.

 

[Clownbuster]

Am I missing something? Did the OP include the 7-35 ATACR somewhere in his option criteria?

 

[Clownbuster]

There seems to be alot of chatter about a scope he never mentioned...

 

[sstacllc]

There seems to be alot of chatter about a scope he never mentioned...

He mentioned the 5-25 ATACR it is a NF product in the ATACR line up and well within the scope of the conversation and some personal experience with both scopes mentioned plus the 7-35.

 

[Clownbuster]

He mentioned the 5-25 ATACR it is a NF product in the ATACR line up and well within the scope of the conversation and some personal experience with both scopes mentioned plus the 7-35.

10 4

 

[sstacllc]

another thing to think about with optics is a really good deal can usually be found on the used market. That's how I started out year ago was getting an F1 from a hide member for a great deal. I don't have any fear or hesitation buying used high end optics

 

[onthex]

another thing to think about with optics is a really good deal can usually be found on the used market. That's how I started out year ago was getting an F1 from a hide member for a great deal. I don't have any fear or hesitation buying used high end optics

To give you (and everyone else) an update I went on and purchased that AMG. However, since I have another build in the works I am just took your advice and purchased a used 5-25x56 F1 ATACTR from a hide member about two minutes ago! I figure the best way for me to get a real comparison is to just use both myself and form my own opinion. Based upon everyone's helpful feedback here I have concluded they are both great scopes, and I just need to see for myself which suits me best. Given the excellent resale of both I don't think I can get hurt. Thanks for the honest and helpful feedback.

 

[pinhead]

Somehow I ran across this thread, so thought I would ask for an update since it’s been almost a month. What say you, how do they compare in your eyes?

 

[onthex]

I have now hunted and shot at the range with each scope several times, and I am very happy with both or them. Based on my experience these are my observations:

Both scopes have excellent glass and wonderful clarity across almost the entire field of vision even at maximum power, however, the ATACR edges out the AMG here because the Razor does show a little distortion around the edge at 24x, and it has a smaller field of view. However, since the Razor has a 30mm tube and 50mm objective vs. the 34mm tube and 56mm objective on the ATACR this is really not a fair comparison.

In the field hunting I found both scopes to have excellent clarity, good "pop" in terms of colors and resolution, and both are easy to adjust. To my eye the parallax settings on the AMG are more accurate than on the ATACR. To me this was somewhat important because when hunting I like to range the animal, adjust the parallax to the proper distance and then adjust the scope. On the AMG if the target is at a known distance and I make the adjustment to that marking I am in focus when I look through the scope. On the ATACR I have to adjust while looking through the scope to get focus. To me this extra adjustment is aggravating as it consumes extra time for the animal to move. I also like the turrets better on the Razor AMG because you can't accidentally turn them, and the clicks feel crisp and clean to me. I found the ATACR turrets to be a little "mushy", and I have accidentally moved it off zero while moving around. However, as noted above, the ATACR has a better field of view, and it is just a little clearer than the AMG. As a hunting scope goes there really was not a clear winner. The ATACR has better glass, but the AMG is lighter and mine was almost $500 less than the ATACR. To me as a hunting scope goes the bottom line is this: If price and/or weight is an issue go with the Razor, if those two items are not a factor than the ATACR gets the edge to me.

Where things really got interesting was at the range. Here the ATACR really shined. The first thing that stood out was how much easier it was to zero. Several times during the sight in process I wanted to rip the AMG from my mounts and fling it across the field! I also liked the zero stop adjustment on the ATACR better, and the clarity and field of view were obviously superior to the AMG. The things that I like better about the AMG parallax and turrets while hunting are not nearly as important to me at the range, and weight is not an issue there, either. For me the ATACR is clearly superior at the range, even if it is a few hundred dollars more.

So here is the bottom line:

I am very happy with both scopes, and I will probably purchase both again in the future. I have a light weight short action build planned for the near future that I intend to use for hunting. Weight, accuracy and price are the key focus of this build, and I will definitely be putting a Razor AMG on it. With that said, for the money I think the Nightforce ATACR beats the Razor AMG and everything else out there in its class for overall performance, and I definitely will be upgrading the glass on a couple of my older guns to Nightforce.

Thanks for everyone's feedback and advice. I really appreciated your help!

 

[patriot07]

If they're the same price, I'd personally take the ATACR. If the price difference is $500+, I'd take the AMG.

I think the ATACR has better resolution at long range and I like their reticles better as well. Both have good turrets, good build quality, and good warranty service. I have not used the ATACR as much as I have the AMG, so my opinion should be caveated with that.