Rifle Scopes Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

[thefiremeister]

I'm just about read to drop some cash on a new scope and have it narrowed down to either the Razor or the NightForce FFP.

I know the Razor has a higher magnification but I'm only shooting a 308 and don't know if I need a 20 power. More is usually better but...

For about 2k which is the better scope? I know thats subjective but how about which one is built better and has a better reticle?

 

[jnesto]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

Check this out:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1575498

 

[SAS_Sniper]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

NXS 3.5-15x50 FFP

 

[Luvman]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I chose the F1 for 3 reasons: 10 mil/turn knobs, 3.5x low end, and lighter weight.

 

[beretta_man11]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

You ever looked thru a NXS? i have one and am not as impressed as i thought i would be with the optical clarity. I know that will ruffle some feathers with people on here but oh well... I do not have a higher quality scope to compare it to but i do have cheaper scopes to compare it to (elite 6500, millett trs-1) and other than the obvious construction of the scope, the optical clarity is not worth $1300 more than my millett... my $0.02.

 

[71firebird400]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

Might want to consider a USO SN-3 3.2-17X; it's right in that price range.

 

[FARGO]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

Dont forget about the USO 3.2-17x ... little more cash but IMO well worth it.

 

[thefiremeister]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta_man11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You ever looked thru a NXS? i have one and am not as impressed as i thought i would be with the optical clarity. I know that will ruffle some feathers with people on here but oh well... I do not have a higher quality scope to compare it to but i do have cheaper scopes to compare it to (elite 6500, millett trs-1) and other than the obvious construction of the scope, the optical clarity is not worth $1300 more than my millett... my $0.02. </div></div>

I've looked through a Night force that had the NP-1RR. Pretty nice. I do have a Millet mil mils. No wait, UPS has my Millet and is taking it back the repair center... Again.

I want a scope that I can depend on and I have never had any luck with the lower end stuff. I know some people that swear by Millet and thats how I wound up with one.
I've even had to send my Vari X III hunting scope back twice.


I'm looking for some dependability and consistency. I do not want to wonder if my scope is getting "weird" on me when I'm working with my rifle. Yes all scopes can go bad but the chances will be alot slimmer.

If you want to sell your nightforce pm me

 

[NorCal Vu]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beretta_man11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You ever looked thru a NXS? i have one and am not as impressed as i thought i would be with the optical clarity. I know that will ruffle some feathers with people on here but oh well... I do not have a higher quality scope to compare it to but i do have cheaper scopes to compare it to (elite 6500, millett trs-1) and other than the obvious construction of the scope, the optical clarity is not worth $1300 more than my millett... my $0.02. </div></div>

Millett TRS-1 Vs an NXS? Really?

I have looked through both at distance through heavy mirage. Sorry, I know where my extra cash went in my NXS.

Lets forget the glass quality for a second, look at the track record of the NXS compared to the millet, or lack of track record of the millet.


To the OP,

I've owned 4 NXS 3-15s NPR1s and never had one hiccup on any of the 4. We see more NXS scopes out here than any other optic. 0 issues. Well, 3 in the last 6 years I've been running matches at Sac Valley.

With that being said, I have also been testing the Vortex Razor EBR3 and have to say I am pretty impressed after shooting it for the last few months. It kind of won me over because I didn't think it was on par with the optics I had in the safe.

3-20X
Zero Stop
FFP
Numbered Mil mil reticle.
Rings

1750 street price is hard to beat. + their customer service is great as well.

Honestly, you cant go wrong with either optic. It just comes down to personal preference.

HTH,

Vu

 

[Swan]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

The Vortex Razor is gonna be hard to beat for under $2k. After comparing my brother's to my USO 3.2-17 I'd say I was extremely impressed. By the time you throw on upgrades to a USO, which you WILL do, you are way above $2k. The NF F1 is nice too, but I'd suggest looking through reticle options of them all as that may be the deciding factor.

I had a Millett, as well, and ran it pretty hard for about 8 months before it died. They did replace it under warranty, though it took a month or so for a replacement. I would never buy another one, I must confess.

 

[bward]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I've had both a nightforce and a razor. Sold the nightforce and won't sell the razor. I like the reticle choices better and feel the glass is better in the vortex. Either will be very nice though.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I had both scopes. The NF F1 is easier to get behind than the Razor HD. What I mean by that is you need to be directly behind the Razor, so if your doing positional shooting (ie sitting) it's hard to get a good site picture. If your just going to shoot paper in the prone or sitting at a bench that wont matter much. If it were my cash I would go NF F1. BTW I upgraded to S&B. Also, in that price range you should look at IOR. Scott over @ Liberty Optics has the new one and it looks really good scope.

Jamie

 

[Chiller]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I have owned both.

My money is on the Razor. More than happy to explain why.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I forgot to add the zero stop on the Razor HD (IMO) is easier to set up than the zero stop on the NF F1.

Jamie

 

[thefiremeister]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have owned both.

My money is on the Razor. More than happy to explain why. </div></div>

Please explain

 

[thefiremeister]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

To all you guys that have the Razor, How much trouble is it to get behind when your out of position?

LowLight commented on that as have a few others

 

[bward]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I agree that the eye relief can be a bit tricky on the razor, but at any mag under 20x I have no problem with it. And I find it to be acceptable at 20x.

 

[RODENT]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree that the eye relief can be a bit tricky on the razor, but at any mag under 20x I have no problem with it. And I find it to be acceptable at 20x. </div></div>

+1

 

[Swan]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

pyrolater,

here u go: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2089799#Post2089799

 

[Adam B]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

BTW-I am only selling it because I already have 4 of them and I need to replenish my "fun account", the family dinsey world trip killed it. I have owned every scope out there except the Hensoldt and since I don't shoot people for a living the Razor more than meets my needs, the glass is great, controls are precise and the warranty sets the standard in the industry.

 

[NorCal Vu]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pyrolater</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To all you guys that have the Razor, How much trouble is it to get behind when your out of position?

LowLight commented on that as have a few others </div></div>

On 20X, I won't lie, it can be a bitch. However when out of position, I normally shoot on a lower power setting such as 12 to 15X.

I am going to run the Vortex Razor through a steel match this weekend and will post up my report once it is completed.

Vu

 

[steve123]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

Although I've not owned the Razor I've had occasion to compare two Razors side by side with two 5.5-22 NF's.Both times the NF appeared clearer to me and to the guy who owns the Razors.The first Razor was sent back because it failed a box test.2ncd one is OK.

I'll keep my NF's for now.

I'm really liking my IOR 6-24x56FFP.The glass is killer in it.I'm going to try it in some matches in the near future.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On 20X, I won't lie, it can be a bitch. </div></div>

This is probably my only real gripe with the Razor at this point. There were others, but the more I use it the more they fade in light of what a great scope it is and the number of things it does really well.

The F1 didn't provide enough magnification for me to seriously consider it. And I didn't like the mil reticle choices compared to the Razor. Not to mention the $3-400 extra.

John

 

[BCP]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

Well, Nightforce is the safest bet but I would at least consider one of the newer IOR 3-18's. IOR glass is really nice and I love the reticle and the knobs - the only downside is the eyebox, and the newer models look like that isn't as much of an issue and they have illumination. They seem to have their warranty service under control now too. Sent in a broken one, 8 days later got a brand new one. I don't care if it breaks as long as they'll fix it.

 

[tigerhawk]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I prefer the NightForce.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

As far as a comparison of both scopes my opinion does not carry weight

But in reference to the Razor, it’s rock solid and able to be used and abused, as folks stated here everything does what it’s supposed to, built tough and capable of staying on the mark - a useful tool, not something that has to be babied . In reference to the eye box at 20x yes you will need a repeatable cheek weld which does not allow you to get lazy – a good thing and something that you get used to fast.

Mine is a EBR-3

Just my opinion

 

[Rob01]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I have had 2 NF F1s, still have 1, and 1 Razor HD. Both have about equal glass. The NF seemed to have a little wider FOV especially at the higher powers but the Razor is definitely usable. I like having the option of the extra 5x of the Razor. I like having a little more power if needed and that's why I run a S&B 5-25x56 in competition. Not always needed but nice to have the extra power if you do.

The NF scopes tracked perfectly. The Razor was a little off in elevation but is at Vortex now getting a check up. Vortex Customer Service was and is superb! Scott at Vortex has been excellent to deal with.

I like the EBR-3 reticle of the Razor much better than the MLR in the NF. The Razor reticle is much more usable for the full range of power in that the mil marks are easier to see and more defined. Both reticles subtended perfectly in my testing.

I haven't been able to beat the Razor up like I have my NF but I am willing to bet it will stand up to some punishment.

The choice between the two is tough as they are pretty equal scopes but if money was important and I had to choose I would call Scott at Liberty Optics up and get the Razor and save about $400 over the NF and not feel bad about it.

 

[cruzie27]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pyrolater</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To all you guys that have the Razor, How much trouble is it to get behind when your out of position?

LowLight commented on that as have a few others </div></div>

i have the Razor,.. i hated it while it was mounted on my .300WM,. but i actually kinda like it on my .50BMG,.. wierd right?

the glass is ok,. but i am very spoiled by my Premier which i feel is worth the extra money if clarity is your thing. other than that everything rocks about that scope. i love the EBR-2 ret. i have,.MIL/MIL,. FFP,..35mm main tube,.zero stop,.etc,.etc,. and the warrenty is pretty much the golden standard (the instruction book even says its rated for .50's)

plus it looks good on my baby

 

[pdd614]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

Love my razor, and it won't be going anywhere any time soon. The eye relief has been a total non issue.

 

[thefiremeister]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

The other thing I had heard was the at lower powers the Nightforce reticule got pretty difficult to see.

I was looking at getting the ebr 2 and if the Christmas tree disappeared at lower powers I don't see that as a big deal

Im I right or way off base

 

[cruzie27]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pyrolater</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The other thing I had heard was the at lower powers the Nightforce reticule got pretty difficult to see.

I was looking at getting the ebr 2 and if the Christmas tree disappeared at lower powers I don't see that as a big deal

Im I right or way off base </div></div>

10-15x is about the best for viewing most of the "christmas tree". on 20x you can only see a few mils down or across the "tree". I can't for the life of me remember if the entire "tree" is lit up with the illum on or not. Even with my other FFP scopes I feel the crosshairs are too small to be useful on the lowest magnification,. But it's nice for observation & giving directions to a target.

I really do like the EBR-2 in this scope and if you where close I'd let you shoot a few rounds with it to get the feel for it.

 

[michaelt454]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

You mentioned you wanted a scope you could depend on... I would bet 90% of the people on here would recommend Nightforce based on that criteria alone. Nightforce scopes are ultra tough if nothing else. No personal experience with the Razor though....

Michael T

 

[bward]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I'm guessing you haven't watched the video of Lowlight trying to blow up the razor... Don't think you would ever have any durability issues with either.

 

[michaelt454]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

Not a lot of posts on this site about people having trouble (tracking issues etc.) with Nightforce optics. I'm sure the Razors are good scopes too... but Nightforce has a long track record of being hearty well built optics, the first time they're built.

Michael T

 

[Retoocs]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I just went through the same dilemma between the F1 and Razor. After reading through endless pages of reviews on this forum of the two scopes, Scott @ Liberty Optics got my business today. It really didn't come down to the price since I was able to score a deal on a new F1 for $100 more than the Razor + rings.

 

[thefiremeister]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really do like the EBR-2 in this scope and if you where close I'd let you shoot a few rounds with it to get the feel for it.
</div></div>

Well thanks. I appreciate the offer.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I do not have a NXS F1, but I have a Razor HD and a USO SN-3.

The Razor is an EXTREMELY good package. The turret feel is great. The glass is as good as it needs to be. The Parallax adjusts very close. It makes it easy to dry fire.

Glass is a very subjective item. I think the glass on my USO and on the Razor are pretty close. I had the chance a couple weeks ago to compare the Razor to a NXS (non F1). With both scopes set to 20x they were comparable. I think the contrast in the Razor was just a little bit better.

However where the Razor shines is with the zero stop and the reticle. The reticle in the Razor is excellent. It works well on low power, but with the open center it's still capable of making very precise shots. It spoiled me enough that I was irritated when I went back to shooting the Falcon on my AR10.

I still really love the USO and I don't think I will ever give it up. If I had to choose between the two it would be extremely hard. I still like the low profile of the EREK, but the Razor's zero stop is easy to adjust and it's got plenty of elevation for what I do. The USO is built like a tank. The Razor's construction is not quite as confidence inspiring. That's not to say it's not tough. It just feels like a different level of construction when you compare them both. Little things like the rough knurled power ring on the USO versus the rubber coated ring on the Razor are what you have to pick at in this level of optic.

Now where the SN-3 does take the lead is in the low-end. 3.2x is a better low range for a working rifle, although I have been able to make do with the 5x on the Vortex. I just find myself getting off the glass more.

Choosing either would not cause you and problems. However if you asked me to choose, I would stick with the Razor. It is just an awesome scope.

 

[thefiremeister]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm guessing you haven't watched the video of Lowlight trying to blow up the razor... Don't think you would ever have any durability issues with either. </div></div>


I did look at that video. Its Pretty cool. Not many reviewers put a scope through a test like that. I really liked it when it fell off the tower.

I'm getting lots of good advice and info here. I really appreciate all the input. I did have my doubts about the Razor at the beginning but not so much now.

It looks like the are both rugged and dependable scopes. I can see every one has there own reason for owning either one or the other and it seems like it comes down to the little things and personal preference.

I'm thinking I like the erb-2 Christmas tree and that little square in the middle. I also like the warranty on the vortex.

I like the 3.5 on the Nightforce and the reputation for tracking and dependability.

I'm not sure I could tell the difference in the glass if I had them side by side and that alone would not be a deciding factor.

It would have been nice if there were a bunch of people that had complaints or problems with one or the other. That way it would be an easy decision.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

Oh, I have big complaints about them all.

They empty my bank account too quickly!

 

[vman]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

I think you cant go wrong with either of these two scope to be perfectly honest.

You have narrowed it down to a solid duo.

I cant comment on the Vortex Razor HD, however I can tell you that the NF scopes are solid and dependable.

Based on comments ive read about the vortex I would invest in one even tho Im a NF fan

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

All you people are gear queers. Either that or you just have horrible eye sight. What cracks me up the most is when a guy that wear glasses as thick as coke bottles tries to educate me on what is a good optic hahahaha.

I have a $300 Super Sniper, $1000 Mark 4, and a $1700 NF NXS and I can barely tell the difference between them when in 10x mode.

So my choice would be neither Razor or NXS. Pick up a SS or Bushnell, best glass for the money. About 95% of the NXS at 1/10th the price.

 

[pupdawg]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCarrtmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All you people are gear queers. Either that or you just have horrible eye sight. What cracks me up the most is when a guy that wear glasses as thick as coke bottles tries to educate me on what is a good optic hahahaha.

I have a $300 Super Sniper, $1000 Mark 4, and a $1700 NF NXS and I can barely tell the difference between them when in 10x mode.

So my choice would be neither Razor or NXS. Pick up a SS or Bushnell, best glass for the money. About 95% of the NXS at 1/10th the price. </div></div>


Sounds to me like you might be the one wearing the "coke bottles".

WE are talking about scopes with a MATCHED SYSTEM (mil/mil or moa/moa whatever), variable power, FFP, reputation for DURABILITY and a USABLE reticle.

YOU on the other hand are talking about MOA turrets with a MIL-dot reticle, fixed power in one or two of your examples, probably SFP, a reputation for affordability, and coke bottles.

I'm not surprised you can't tell the "difference" between one scope or another.

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCarrtmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All you people are gear queers. Either that or you just have horrible eye sight. What cracks me up the most is when a guy that wear glasses as thick as coke bottles tries to educate me on what is a good optic hahahaha.

I have a $300 Super Sniper, $1000 Mark 4, and a $1700 NF NXS and I can barely tell the difference between them when in 10x mode.

So my choice would be neither Razor or NXS. Pick up a SS or Bushnell, best glass for the money. About 95% of the NXS at 1/10th the price. </div></div>


Sounds to me like you might be the one wearing the "coke bottles".

WE are talking about scopes with a MATCHED SYSTEM (mil/mil or moa/moa whatever), variable power, FFP, reputation for DURABILITY and a USABLE reticle.

YOU on the other hand are talking about MOA turrets with a MIL-dot reticle, fixed power in one or two of your examples, probably SFP, a reputation for affordability, and coke bottles.

I'm not surprised you can't tell the "difference" between one scope or another.



</div></div>


I can understand you choosing a scope based on reticle and turrets. However, to me it seems the #1 reason to pick a scope is for glass quality. Or am I wrong on this?

I got my eyes checked, no glasses here, 20/20 vision. Also performed a color blindness test and passed with flying colors. I can understand why some of you guys need special glass, it's because you are color blind and can't pick up details. About Color Blindness here: http://www.archimedes-lab.org/colorblindnesstest.html

I was at a precision shoot once and a lot of the members had coke bottles for glasses. Also there were many that were about 100 years old, and I am sure half of those guys are color blind.

Hey if you need $2000 glass I don't blame you. But don't be mad at me because I have good eyes and can't really tell a difference between a SS or NF. My mom has $600 glasses and I am not mad at her. Do we have to hate? Can't we all just love each other?

 

[pupdawg]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

Well I can tell you that glass quality is not the #1 reason to pick a scope IMO. #1 reason is the "system" itself. The combination of glass CLARITY/contrast with its tracking ability, durability, repeatability, the reticle, the turret "clicks" and how they feel, eye relief and or eye box, and even objective diameter.

When you have time, place a paper target (the ones the eye doctor uses with the letters) at 100 yards.. put your scopes on 10x and see which scope is easier to make out the letters or makes the letters appear sharper. I'd bet you'll see a slight difference... make another thread or use the search if you want to discuss as you're allowing me to hijack the OP thread.

As to not deviate from the OP question, I too think you won't be disappointed with either. I have only shot with the NF FFP and not the Razor HD but I can say that if I had both I wouldn't prefer one over the other, so to speak. Now the extra 5x may come in handy, but for the most part 15x is enough.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCarrtmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> However, to me it seems the #1 reason to pick a scope is for glass quality. Or am I wrong on this?
</div></div>

Yes, you are wrong...way wrong, in fact. Glass quality is pretty low on the list.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

Oh, and the 100 year old dudes with coke bottles don't do what we do, not even close, actually.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

Hopefully, many of us will never have to answer this question. But ask yourself this, if your life ever DID depend on your equipment, would you rather be counting on your Bushnell or a Nightforce? I'll take the NF and know it will do its job. Can you really put a price tag on that?

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I can tell you that glass quality is not the #1 reason to pick a scope IMO. #1 reason is the "system" itself. The combination of glass CLARITY/contrast with its tracking ability, durability, repeatability, the reticle, the turret "clicks" and how they feel, eye relief and or eye box, and even objective diameter.

When you have time, place a paper target (the ones the eye doctor uses with the letters) at 100 yards.. put your scopes on 10x and see which scope is easier to make out the letters or makes the letters appear sharper. I'd bet you'll see a slight difference... make another thread or use the search if you want to discuss as you're allowing me to hijack the OP thread.

As to not deviate from the OP question, I too think you won't be disappointed with either. I have only shot with the NF FFP and not the Razor HD but I can say that if I had both I wouldn't prefer one over the other, so to speak. Now the extra 5x may come in handy, but for the most part 15x is enough. </div></div>

Do you sell used cars for a living?

 

[thefiremeister]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I can tell you that glass quality is not the #1 reason to pick a scope IMO. #1 reason is the "system" itself. The combination of glass CLARITY/contrast with its tracking ability, durability, repeatability, the reticle, the turret "clicks" and how they feel, eye relief and or eye box, and even objective diameter.</div></div>

I totally agree with that statement. If the glass is crap thats a good reason not to buy but at this price range I expect good glass and its not a big factor in my decision. Thats why I never asked the question " which scope has the best glass"

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: Razor HD or Night force NXS with FFP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCarrtmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> However, to me it seems the #1 reason to pick a scope is for glass quality. Or am I wrong on this?
</div></div>

Yes, you are wrong...way wrong, in fact. Glass quality is pretty low on the list. </div></div>

Really? Glass quality is low on the list? Seems to me at least 50% of all optic posts involves glass quality. Even in this thread you have guys talking about glass quality.

If glass quality is low on the list why bring it up so often?