RDO vs Prism, home defense

[Ape_Factory]

Looking at either an RDO or prism 1X for a home defense SBR, strictly indoors, and I've never used one on a rifle. I have RDO's on all of my hand guns. I really wouldn't have much need for something like an ACSS reticle as it's strictly in the house. Not opposed to it but I don't need holdovers. I have a small collection of LPVO's ranging from 1-4 to 1-8 but none are shake awake or have amazing battery life hence the switch.

Couple of questions.

Does the aperture really matter, say a 20mm vs. a 30mm on an RDO (or prism) since you're shooting with both eyes open? Is there some sort of an advantage in terms of comfort or acquiring the target with a larger front element? Most seem to have unlimited eye relief.

I'm leaning towards prism due to the etched reticle (usable if all else fails) but none of the prism offerings seem to tick ALL the boxes (namely backup solar power).

Really looking for in no particular order:
-Extended battery life, 30,000+ hours
-Green reticle, prefer more than just a dot
-Shake awake
-Solar backup
-Etched reticle
-Not overpay for the name and yesterday's feature set ($550 or less)
-Rugged, something I won't really have to worry about.
-QD mount preferred, possibly the ability to work with aftermarket mounts
-Clear see through caps
-Parallax free, unlimited eye relief

There are a few I'm looking at but I'm open to suggestions beyond my list or for/against certain optics based on use/features.
-Holosun HE530C-GR, titanium housing 30mm front element, solar backup
-Holosun HE515CT-GR, same as above but with 20mm front element, solar backup
-Holosun 503-The Primary Arms version with the ACSS reticle. No solar, very small, aluminum housing.
-SIG Sauer Romeo4S or 4T, can't tell what the diff is other than price and how waterproof it is
-Primary Arms SLX 1X micro prism (new version), no solar
-Trijicon MRO 1x25 (on sale but doesn't include mount, no solar, just a 2MOA dot)

Any considerations or models I'm leaving out?

 

[CK1.0]

WIth RDO's, when used correctly (both eyes open, target focus, always), the size of the objective lens doesn't matter. Some guys feel the larger windows seem more open and less like looking through a tube, but most of that is psychosomatic, because science. If both of your eyes are open looking through an EOTech, you have 100% of the FOV you'd have looking through nothing, both eyes open with an Aimpoint T2 (smaller window)... same thing. Your brain will "tune out" the optic housing, just like it does with your nose when you look side to side.

Prisms in 1X, are really only for the guys out there with terrible astigmatism issues where using a traditional RDO is out of the question. If your eyes are even slightly better than total dogshit, having that etched reticle is not worth the trade-off of the shit eye relief penalty you pay with a prism.

Some guys' eyes work better with regular emitter-based RDO's (Aimpoint, Holosun, etc) versus the holographic types (like EOTech), most peeps can use either.

In 2022 one can find an RDO for just about any budget solid enough that one shouldn't even require you run back-up sights, no need to worry about the better-for-SHTF etched reticle nonsense.

I own EOTech, Aimpoint's, and Holosun... I won't be buying any more T-2's because one $800 boring simple red dot is enough, but it's the first I'd ask an agency to pay for lol. I recommend the Holosun's with the rheostat dials, they're brighter than the push-button models and some of that tech you're looking for (solar, shake awake) adds needless complication, I say skip it.

The Holosun HS403R is basically an Aimpoint T-2 clone and the one I recommend the most for applications short of duty/war. MRO's are total shit, worst RDO on the market IMHO.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Thanks that really helps. Wasn't aware of the eye relief issue on prisms and didn't know the Holosun rheostat dial models were brighter. Honestly, being an in-house gun, I don't worry about being daylight bright and I probably shouldn't care about solar backup unless the battery is rechargeable (which it isn't). Shake awake though...I'd rather not have to think about turning anything on in the middle of the night.

Eyesight is stellar at distance, not so much at close range. I cannot read a watch face or use standard iron sights on a handgun but no astigmatism. Contemplating corrective surgery next year to fix being near sighted.

 

[Dough300]

I’ve had LPVOs and I keep returning to EXPS3-0 and T-1s with a G33 in my gear to attach when needed.

LPVOs are great too, but they’re heavier and turn a handy/quick rifle to sluggish.

Both have their place and I buy both.

 

[Conqueror]

I have no idea why you’re mandating solar backup on a gun you say is for 100% indoor use.

A home defense gun is always going to be used:

1) at short ranges,
2) rarely (not including practice), and
3) in a hurry.

It also MUST NOT FAIL.

Therefore all my defensive weapons have always worn a simple but high-quality leave-it-on red dot with a LARGE easily acquired dot or reticle. I don’t want to futz with magnification rings, power buttons, etc. and I don’t want any BDC holdovers or other potentially confusing markings on the reticle. My current HD gun is a suppressed Sig MPX full of 147gr HSTs and it wears a 6.5moa Trijicon RMR.

 

[Ape_Factory]

I have no idea why you’re mandating solar backup on a gun you say is for 100% indoor use.

Yes, I mention that I came to that conclusion in my second reply but duly noted. I've already moved on to the non-solar versions of various offerings. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[koshkin]

Unless you have very significant astigmatism, one of the modern red dots with very long battery life is probably the easiest option.

There are quite a few good ones out there depending on how much you want to spend. I would certainly lean toward something with an enclosed emitter to keep the dust off of the important stuff. Window size is a personal matter. After going back and forth on this repeatedly, I ended up mostly sticking with the smaller stuff and for an indoor gun, I keep on coming back to Shield SIS. It has a smallish window and a somewhat prominent housing, but it appears to be damn near bullet proof and at close distances, that whole housing becomes something akin to a large ghost ring. I did some experiments, for the heck of it, with the dot turned off and at across the room distances it worked exceedingly well. Surprised the hell out of me. That gives me a touch of redunduncy, I suppose, in case the battery fails.

ILya

 

[308pirate]

Eyesight is stellar at distance, not so much at close range. I cannot read a watch face or use standard iron sights on a handgun but no astigmatism. Contemplating corrective surgery next year to fix being near sighted.

A reflex sight (aks RDS) is what you want. You use them with hard target focus and both eyes open, which makes your near vision problems irrelevant.

This is what you want

Aimpoint Duty RDS Red Dot Reflex Sight 2 MOA Dot with 39mm Picatinny Mount and Spacer Aluminum Matte

The Aimpoint Duty RDS Red Dot Reflex Sight offers a bright, crisp 2 MOA dot that’s ideal for short to medium range target engagements. All new windage and elevation adjustments […]

megaammunitionstore.com

Aimpoint Duty RDS Red Dot Reflex Sight 200759

FREE SHIPPING on Aimpoint Duty RDS Red Dot Reflex Sight 200759

www.eurooptic.com

ETA The first link is for reference only. I believe that place in Detroit is a scam based on what their street address looks like in google maps street view.

 

[RKBArmory]

I'm currently using the Primary Arms Micro Prism 1X. The ACSS reticle has a lot of useful features, but at the close distances at which I use this particular rifle, I would probably be just as happy with a simple red dot. The eye relief is generous with this particular prism, if that is a concern.

 

[308pirate]

WIth RDO's, when used correctly (both eyes open, target focus, always), the size of the objective lens doesn't matter. Some guys feel the larger windows seem more open and less like looking through a tube, but most of that is psychosomatic, because science. If both of your eyes are open looking through an EOTech, you have 100% of the FOV you'd have looking through nothing, both eyes open with an Aimpoint T2 (smaller window)... same thing. Your brain will "tune out" the optic housing, just like it does with your nose when you look side to side.

Prisms in 1X, are really only for the guys out there with terrible astigmatism issues where using a traditional RDO is out of the question. If your eyes are even slightly better than total dogshit, having that etched reticle is not worth the trade-off of the shit eye relief penalty you pay with a prism.

Some guys' eyes work better with regular emitter-based RDO's (Aimpoint, Holosun, etc) versus the holographic types (like EOTech), most peeps can use either.

In 2022 one can find an RDO for just about any budget solid enough that one shouldn't even require you run back-up sights, no need to worry about the better-for-SHTF etched reticle nonsense.

I own EOTech, Aimpoint's, and Holosun... I won't be buying any more T-2's because one $800 boring simple red dot is enough, but it's the first I'd ask an agency to pay for lol. I recommend the Holosun's with the rheostat dials, they're brighter than the push-button models and some of that tech you're looking for (solar, shake awake) adds needless complication, I say skip it.

The Holosun HS403R is basically an Aimpoint T-2 clone and the one I recommend the most for applications short of duty/war. MRO's are total shit, worst RDO on the market IMHO.

The Aimpoint Duty eliminates the need to buy chinesium crap to save money.

 

[Ape_Factory]

A reflex sight (aks RDS) is what you want. You use them with hard target focus and both eyes open, which makes your near vision problems irrelevant.

This is what you want

Aimpoint Duty RDS Red Dot Reflex Sight 2 MOA Dot with 39mm Picatinny Mount and Spacer Aluminum Matte

The Aimpoint Duty RDS Red Dot Reflex Sight offers a bright, crisp 2 MOA dot that’s ideal for short to medium range target engagements. All new windage and elevation adjustments […]

megaammunitionstore.com

Aimpoint Duty RDS Red Dot Reflex Sight 200759

FREE SHIPPING on Aimpoint Duty RDS Red Dot Reflex Sight 200759

www.eurooptic.com

ETA The first link is for reference only. I believe that place in Detroit is a scam based on what their street address looks like in google maps street view.

I did have the Aimpoint on my short list initially but soon discovered they're back-ordered everywhere. Is it a new offering not yet released? What are they eliminating vs. their high end offerings to get the price cut by half?

Edit; I see it's a new release offering on their site.

 

[308pirate]

What are they eliminating vs. their high end offerings to get the price cut by half?

You'll have to ask Aimpoint.

As far as I'm concerned, it's Aimpoint. I assume it's top quality regardless of what it costs compared to other Aimpoint products.

 

[CK1.0]

The Aimpoint Duty eliminates the need to buy chinesium crap to save money.

I get what you're saying... but I'm not too convinced Aimpoint's Duty is "all that". I got to put ~100rds downrange with one last week, and much like the ACRO disaster, Aimpoint's peeps seem to have missed the mark on a couple things.

Firstly, the buttons suck and are annoying (I expect even more so with gloves), and (for me the big one), I find the Duty's wonky "in-between height" annoying and a big miss because if one doesn't like the height/mount it comes with, well, good luck playing around with other mounts...one might not be able to ever get the thing to match the heights of one's other optics that they're used to.

If sales are slow I wouldn't be surprised at all if there's a "Duty 2.0" that comes along at some point...

 

[308pirate]

I get what you're saying... but I'm not too convinced Aimpoint's Duty is "all that". I got to put ~100rds downrange with one last week, and much like the ACRO disaster, Aimpoint's peeps seem to have missed the mark on a couple things.

Firstly, the buttons suck and are annoying (I expect even more so with gloves), and (for me the big one), I find the Duty's wonky "in-between height" annoying and a big miss because if one doesn't like the height/mount it comes with, well, good luck playing around with other mounts...one might not be able to ever get the thing to match the heights of one's other optics that they're used to.

If sales are slow I wouldn't be surprised at all if there's a "Duty 2.0" that comes along at some point...

The Duty uses the standard Aimpoint Micro footprint. There's tons of aftermarket mounts out there in different heights.

As long as the mount isn't too low, I really don't give a shit if it's 1.75, 1.93, or 1.86548" high. It's a reflex sight, not a precision rifle scope.

 

[CK1.0]

The Duty uses the standard Aimpoint Micro footprint. There's tons of aftermarket mounts out there in different heights.

As long as the mount isn't too low, I really don't give a shit if it's 1.75, 1.93, or 1.86548" high. It's a reflex sight, not a precision rifle scope.

Exactly, micro footprint, tons of mounts out there... that will all end up at some unknown/in-between height until one actually mounts one up and tries it via trial and error.... kinda sucks. ...and good luck matching one with a magnifier/mount...

It probably won't bother most people, just the people who've been shooting red dots at the same standard absolute/lower 1/3rd heights for ~10-20 years like me and everyone I shoot/work with lol.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Versus the Comp5b, looks like battery life is lower, turret design (requires tool), no QD mount and lower IPX rating. The case on the Comp is reinforced around the turrets, not sure if the Comp uses a billet vs. forged housing on the duty but assuming it's forged Al as well. Hopefully the glass and emitter are identical. I do like the tool-less turret adjustment but honestly, once you have it dialed in, how often are you going to use it, right? The Comp uses AAA batteries vs 2035 button batteries which wouldn't matter to me personally.

Mount height is a mystery to me at this point. All my LVPO's are fairly low so I'll need to do a bit of experimenting while training. Assuming any mount designed for Aimpoint would work with the Duty.

 

[CK1.0]

Versus the Comp5b, looks like battery life is lower, turret design (requires tool), no QD mount and lower IPX rating. The case on the Comp is reinforced around the turrets, not sure if the Comp uses a billet vs. forged housing on the duty but assuming it's forged Al as well. Hopefully the glass and emitter are identical. I do like the tool-less turret adjustment but honestly, once you have it dialed in, how often are you going to use it, right? The Comp uses AAA batteries vs 2035 button batteries which wouldn't matter to me personally.

Mount height is a mystery to me at this point. All my LVPO's are fairly low so I'll need to do a bit of experimenting while training. Assuming any mount designed for Aimpoint would work with the Duty.

Mount height shouldn't be that much of a mystery to figure out, most are either: "low mount" (shotgun, MP5's, AK's, MPX's), "absolute" (co-witnesses AR sights, ~1.41" I think), or "lower 1/3" (~1.63 I think), though, 1.93" (sometimes called SOCOM or NVD height) has gotten fairly popular too.
Any of those heights should keep one compatible with the sea of available magnifiers and mounts out there.

I'd say "lower 1/3rd" height is right for ~90% of peeps.

 

[308pirate]

Exactly, micro footprint, tons of mounts out there... that will all end up at some unknown/in-between height until one actually mounts one up and tries it via trial and error.... kinda sucks. ...and good luck matching one with a magnifier/mount...

It probably won't bother most people, just the people who've been shooting red dots at the same standard absolute/lower 1/3rd heights for ~10-20 years like me and everyone I shoot/work with lol.

If you're slagging this because it doesn't exactly fit the "standard" mounting heights? LOL. I've been shooting optic equipped carbines for nearly 25 years and IDGAF.

You need to up your game if that is really a problem.

 

[308pirate]

Mount height is a mystery to me at this point. All my LVPO's are fairly low so I'll need to do a bit of experimenting while training. Assuming any mount designed for Aimpoint would work with the Duty.

Ignore the bullshit overcomplication. If this is strictly for home defense, buy a 1.93 and a 1.75 (aka lower 1/3 cowitness) they them both and return the one you don't like.

My bet is the 1.93 will work best for something that will never be shot prone.