Sidearms & Scatterguns RDS Pistol people, why dont you have a seat right over here......

[pmclaine]

Oil base paint pen....

It wil dry darker.....

Thank you all for your help.....this question is answered.

 

[gnochi]

Looking fine!

 

[LawnMM]

Looks good, range pics please!

Depending on what ammo and zero distance you might be surprised... My 100yd hold is dead on

That's a 25yd zero and 124gr ammo

 

[pmclaine]

Trijicon cares about me personally.

I know this because they design their products to require I wear glasses.

My TA-33......no diopter adjustment......in order to see the reticle Pmclaine must wear his prescriptions.

RMR........without prescriptive correction I see a version of busted anus.....with glasses round dot.

I don't think this is a deal breaker though.

Been pointing at shit around my house with the hemmoroidal dot and it's functional. It may even be beneficial as it forces me to accept an imperfect sight picture and may just make me be "good enough" and faster.

Learned something about my eyes yesterday.

Had to go to remedial qualification with my rifle. The shame of it all.

That rifle is equipped with an Aimpoint Pro and at 50 I use the smallest setting dot moving up a press or two in power as we move in.

The COF starts at 50 yards.

In order to see a good enough target to identify I need to wear my prescriptions. They are weak lenses, -1.25 or -1.5.

Last time I qual'd I used prescriptions through the whole day. I was outside the required scoring area at 10 yards with my pistol doing the transition drill.

Kind of bummed me out that close and not hitting the center milk bottle, still in the silhouette but not good enough.

Yesterday it dawned on me at ten yards with prescriptions Im not seeing the muzzle let alone front sight of my pistol. Rear sight didn't matter but I at least had to have the tip of the front sight in the scoring ring to pass.

Made the decision that in order to qual I would have to use prescription lenses 50 to 25 yards than change to clear lenses 25 and in. It worked well and as I generally shoot on my own with clear lenses 25 and in it's something I should have realized before.

Never had this problem in training classes as ranges are often 25 and in or targets are steel torsos and any hit is accepted even if outside the A zone.

Only bringing this up as often I hear peeps complain their Projected RMR dot is not a dot but a Crab Nebula....that is me.

I don't think the dot should be expected to be perfect though....

I was expecting the dot to be like my Aimpoint PRO but it's different engineering......in the focal plane as opposed to projected into your line of sight.......Im guessing that's how it works and why there is a difference.

Im actually now thinking the RMR is really going to be good for me because with corrective lenses I always will have a clear dot AND a clear target to identify while not specifically focusing on either.

Range testing needed!

 

[Mr. Z]

Bad influence.
$212 shipped

SureFire X300 Ultra 1000 Lumen LED Handgun/Long Gun WeaponLight

The powerful and versatile SureFire X300 Ultra WeaponLight features a high-performance LED that generates 1000 lumens of stunning white light focused by a Total Internal Reflection (TIR) lens to produce a tight beam with extended reach and significant surr

www.armsunlimited.com

 

[pmclaine]

Bad influence.
$212 shipped

SureFire X300 Ultra 1000 Lumen LED Handgun/Long Gun WeaponLight

The powerful and versatile SureFire X300 Ultra WeaponLight features a high-performance LED that generates 1000 lumens of stunning white light focused by a Total Internal Reflection (TIR) lens to produce a tight beam with extended reach and significant surr

www.armsunlimited.com

Thats a great price for NIB....lower than you usually find in the PX here.....

Surefire is my favorite light but this piece of China has captured my imagination......

 

[Minarix]

I run the delta point pro on my m17, no rear sight for co-witness, it's strickly a range only pistol tho, have it sighted at 25 yrds and love shooting it.

 

[USMC22]

Looking good! I’m on the fence about ordering a Suarez International Gunfighter package with their sites and an RMR on top

 

[pmclaine]

Looking good! I’m on the fence about ordering a Suarez International Gunfighter package with their sites and an RMR on top

Please just call them and bust their balls asking to make more plain supressor height sites.

Ive been entering the "Out of Stock" items in my cart every day, 2 or 3 times a day, hoping marketing gets the hint.

 

[USMC22]

Please just call them and bust their balls asking to make more plain supressor height sites.

Ive been entering the "Out of Stock" items in my cart every day, 2 or 3 times a day, hoping marketing gets the hint.

I may give them a call today. Got their number in a response e-mail.

I’m back and forth on this new addition.

Love Sig Sauer and how they’re local. Been carrying a glock for years and am heavily invested in mags. My biggest requirement is it can take a Trijicon RMR and in a manner that is SOLID as I intend to use the gun, not oil it and put it in the back of the safe.

 

[pmclaine]

Little more concerning CPHWS....

I contacted them last night because I had a nagging thought in my head that the resistance to the RMR mount screws was not so much the CeraKote but that they were 6-32 rather than 6-40.

Sent them the following....

I contacted you last week concerning a Sig Sauer RMR adapter plate that was just a hair too long to fit the cut on my Sig AXG Scorpion.
A few passes on a diamond sharpener and it fit nicely into place on my Scorpion slide. Its a great solution in that it has top recoil bosses, lower recoil bosses and the gap filler to provide a secure mount.

Can you confirm two questions?

A. This plate will serve the purpose as a sealing plate with the RMR O-Ring to prevent water infiltration?

B. The RMR screws I chose to be sent with the kit are 6-40?

Thanks for your product design. I think you have a great product. I could see it being a hair thicker in the plate, but not much thicker as the beauty of your design is that it mounts the optic lower than any other option.

Thank you for your time.

They responded this AM first thing....

I am glad to hear you are satisfied with the plate! That plate will act as a sealing plate, and the screws are 6-40!

-Darienne


I dont doubt that the reports of their poor CS have some validity but in my case they have served me well.

 

[pmclaine]

I may give them a call today. Got their number in a response e-mail.

I’m back and forth on this new addition.

Love Sig Sauer and how they’re local. Been carrying a glock for years and am heavily invested in mags. My biggest requirement is it can take a Trijicon RMR and in a manner that is SOLID as I intend to use the gun, not oil it and put it in the back of the safe.

Just do what you plan on doing with your Glock....than buy another gun to satisfy your alternate thinking.

Simple.

 

[E. Bryant]

Please just call them and bust their balls asking to make more plain supressor height sites.

Ive been entering the "Out of Stock" items in my cart every day, 2 or 3 times a day, hoping marketing gets the hint.

I think that *you* should call, ask for Gabe himself, bust his balls, and then post a transcript of the call

You might be onto something with the "hints" you've been leaving. In the past, I've added a few things to my cart in the evening, decided to sleep on the decision, and woken up the next morning to an email to the effect of "order now and we'll give you such-and-such item for free". The point is that someone is paying attention.

 

[pmclaine]

I think that *you* should call, ask for Gabe himself, bust his balls, and then post a transcript of the call

You might be onto something with the "hints" you've been leaving. In the past, I've added a few things to my cart in the evening, decided to sleep on the decision, and woken up the next morning to an email to the effect of "order now and we'll give you such-and-such item for free". The point is that someone is paying attention.

Guessing I would end up tied to a stake being used as a torso target.

He seems all "KILL!, KILL!, KILL!" no drill.

Seeing as you two are on a first name basis call him please.

 

[pmclaine]

@E. Bryant

Lets see if they have a sense of humor.

 

[E. Bryant]

LOLZ

Guessing I would end up tied to a stake being used as a torso target.

He seems all "KILL!, KILL!, KILL!" no drill.

Seeing as you two are on a first name basis call him please.

Ah, uh, I'd totally do that, but my afternoon just got really busy...

 

[gnochi]

FWIW check out Dawson Precision; they turned around a custom-height front sight for me within a couple weeks last year - I wanted to use the built-in rear sight of the 507K with a mount that I had designed because HK made it literally impossible to do an optics cut in the P2000 slide - and they have a good selection of pretty much everything.

 

[pmclaine]

FWIW check out Dawson Precision; they turned around a custom-height front sight for me within a couple weeks last year - I wanted to use the built-in rear sight of the 507K with a mount that I had designed because HK made it literally impossible to do an optics cut in the P2000 slide - and they have a good selection of pretty much everything.

Dawson makes very nice stuff. I certainly checked them out.

Now that I know Gabe Suarez is "the mean girl" and he probably doesnt like me, his rejection just makes me desire his sights more.

His deep serrations, the added mechanical set screws on his rear.......

I have battered customer syndrome and low self esteem.

 

[308pirate]

Dawson makes very nice stuff. I certainly checked them out.

Now that I know Gabe Suarez is "the mean girl" and he probably doesnt like me, his rejection just makes me desire his sights more.

His deep serrations, the added mechanical set screws on his rear.......

I have battered customer syndrome and low self esteem.

Before you get too hung up on back up sights/cowitness bla bla bla......................turn off the dot and shoot a USPSA target or some other humanoid torso. Trust your index and use the top edge of the RMR to "chop the head off" the target.

Let us know what you find out.

 

[pmclaine]

Before you get too hung up on back up sights/cowitness bla bla bla......................turn off the dot and shoot a USPSA target or some other humanoid torso. Trust your index and use the top edge of the RMR to "chop the head off" the target.

Let us know what you find out.

Stop it, stop it, just stop!

Cant you recognize a fool and his money wanting to be parted?

 

[Mr. Z]

Stop it, stop it, just stop!

Cant you recognize a fool and his money wanting to be parted?

Lies. I posted a $212 matching x300 and you told us you long for Chinezium.

 

[pmclaine]

Lies. I posted a $212 matching x300 and you told us you long for Chinezium.

The X300 snout will be extended a good inch or so past the bore.

Cleaning guns can be a chore in itself.

When it becomes cleaning the gun and the flashlight that starts to suck....

Might as well get the full size pistol.....

I ordered the Chinesium Olight at a great price.

Its not a TEOTWAWKI light by any means as it is a magnetic charger from a USB connection. Being a flip phone guy Ill be throwing it away day two.

At least a battery light you might be able to stockpile batteries.

I like that the Wuflu light has a flip lever to remove/install. Holsters are lacking for my set up.

Probably go with Garrett Industries for OWB, no light, most often concealed carry.

Odin works looks to make a nice holster that is G-Code RTI compatible and will accommodate the Olight. That would be my training/SHTF setup.

Sent a message to Safariland as My ideal training set up would be something from them with an ALS retention.

 

[pmclaine]

Last question....

Gonna zero the RMR today.

Trijicon says 25 yards.

Co-worker and Sig Sauer say 15 yards.

I see proponents of 10 yards.

General consensus?

Intended use is concealed carry/attending classes typical of a pistol 104 - 25 yard max distance most shooting/drills at 15 and closer.

 

[gnochi]

I haven’t run the ballistics but my 25yd zero seems to hit the 10 ring for everything closer.

 

[USMC22]

Last question....

Gonna zero the RMR today.

Trijicon says 25 yards.

Co-worker and Sig Sauer say 15 yards.

I see proponents of 10 yards.

General consensus?

Intended use is concealed carry/attending classes typical of a pistol 104 - 25 yard max distance most shooting/drills at 15 and closer.

I’d bet the 25 yard recommendation is for “dot shooting” with the 3 and 1 MOA reticle available. With a 6.5 MOA I can imagine a huge advantage of dialing a concealed carry / defensive gun in at 25. 25 yards is probably stretching mechanical accuracy on a production gun and the shooters ability to group unless you are John Wick. I’ve seen you shoot your rifle, maybe you are John Wick with the pistol too.

 

[308pirate]

Last question....

Gonna zero the RMR today.

Trijicon says 25 yards.

Co-worker and Sig Sauer say 15 yards.

I see proponents of 10 yards.

General consensus?

Intended use is concealed carry/attending classes typical of a pistol 104 - 25 yard max distance most shooting/drills at 15 and closer.

I zero my pistols at 25 yards. I start at 10 and refine at 25. I don't use a rest. I shoot to zero exactly how I would shoot in a match or a fight.

You do need above average (a low bar for sure) marksmanship ability and be reasonably good at shot calling so you can ignore shanked shots. Luckily, a RDS makes shot calling easier.

I can rake in about 80 - 90% of available points in a stage, at speed, so I think I can shoot.

 

[308pirate]

With a 6.5 MOA I can imagine a huge advantage of dialing a concealed carry / defensive gun in at 25. 25 yards is probably stretching mechanical accuracy on a production gun and the shooters ability to group unless you are John Wick.

With all due respect, none of this is accurate.

 

[pmclaine]

With all due respect, none of this is accurate.

Hey Squid you challenging my USMC bro?

Even if we aint right we are not wrong..........

25 it will be and I will use my bag as a rest.

 

[USMC22]

With all due respect, none of this is accurate.

None taken. Just getting into the pistol / red dot stuff myself. I’ll be like a broken watch for a while. Right twice a day but off the rest.

 

[LawnMM]

Last question....

Gonna zero the RMR today.

Trijicon says 25 yards.

Co-worker and Sig Sauer say 15 yards.

I see proponents of 10 yards.

General consensus?

Intended use is concealed carry/attending classes typical of a pistol 104 - 25 yard max distance most shooting/drills at 15 and closer.

25yds. Use a bench, rest, whatever, get a good zero, that way if you're shanking them you know you need to work on your press or follow through or whatever.

Don't hide poor form with a shit zero.

 

[fanninland]

Good stuff here, enjoying this thread. Appreciate the info….entertaining too.

 

[pmclaine]

25yds. Use a bench, rest, whatever, get a good zero, that way if you're shanking them you know you need to work on your press or follow through or whatever.

Don't hide poor form with a shit zero.

If @LawnMM we're Scrooge....

"Hey Timmy, what's up with the crutch? Trying to hide the fact you are a crip with the crutch? Let's go, let's work on getting that leg going. What the fuck cripple boy."

Why do you think we shitty shooters buy devices like this? Scopes, all that shit, is to factor out our suck.

I shot it off the bench until I had a group center of my target. Than I fire, two hand, off hand and made some adjustments.

I ended up with a torso style target with a nicely beaten chest area. Not a group but a good pattern. Better than had I been using irons which isn't a big brag.

It will get better when I level my RMR to the gun and my bubble level arrives to check prior to each shot.

Got a target pic in my camera.

Fams got me going to the beach today will down load later.

Now it's...

Sausage,

I like just the tip.

Coffee,

And a sun rise...

 

[LawnMM]

I say it with a reason...

My old man decides to put a set of Crimson Trace laser grips on his 1911. Cool right?

We go to the range, hes all happy and wants to show em off so he hands it to me.

Immediately I'm like... Uhhh something's off here dad, I look down the sights and the laser dot is like way high and right of the bore.

Hand me a screw driver I'll get it closer. You'd have thought I tossed a fetus on the range table, don't I dare touch it he's got it right where he wants it. I said fine, show me.

He proceeds to line up the dot and jerk the fuck out of it and get his hits.

That's what I mean by hiding bad form with a shit zero

 

[pmclaine]

I say it with a reason...

My old man decides to put a set of Crimson Trace laser grips on his 1911. Cool right?

We go to the range, hes all happy and wants to show em off so he hands it to me.

Immediately I'm like... Uhhh something's off here dad, I look down the sights and the laser dot is like way high and right of the bore.

Hand me a screw driver I'll get it closer. You'd have thought I tossed a fetus on the range table, don't I dare touch it he's got it right where he wants it. I said fine, show me.

He proceeds to line up the dot and jerk the fuck out of it and get his hits.

That's what I mean by hiding bad form with a shit zero

I understood.

But haven't you ever heard the saying....

"Beware the cranky old man with only one gun. Especially if his rear windage is set all the way right, he has no front sight post but he runs a lazer dot. He knows how to use his one gun even if no else can."

 

[LawnMM]

I think I've heard something along those lines

I tried talking to him about it, no fucks we're given

 

[308pirate]

It will get better when I level my RMR to the gun and my bubble level arrives to check prior to each shot.

Nice....... LOL

 

[pmclaine]

25 yard range....

Zeroing target on left. Target I shot off hand and dicked around on to the right....

What the ocean looks like for you land locked people....

Hopper painted out here on Cape Anne....

I swear Hopper must have had some sort of weird mutation gene that allowed him to see in "polarized" light before Polaroid even invented the lenses.

 

[Hans7]

Here’s a view of mine. Chambers Custom RDMS cut. Rear sight had to be removed because of how low this optic sits and the slide real estate necessary. So without the rear you just index off of the front sight and instinctively shoot, with a lot of practice (a lot) it works well inside 15m. I would do it again 100%.
Any other RMR footprint optic can be mounted to the RDMS cut and the rear drifted back into place if you want to stick with the “low witness”.

SRO with 1MOA dot. Incredibly precise. Having shot 2.5MOA and 2.25MOA dots for 6 years, this is my new favorite. 25m zero. YMMV

 

[pmclaine]

It hasnt been determined if Gabe Suarez has a sense of humor or not but while making my second daily hit to put the out of stock sights in my cart it was noted the co-witness sights I want were in stock.

Once installed Ill be ordering holsters.

 

[308pirate]

SRO with 1MOA dot.

View attachment 7678396

How's that 1 MOA dot working out in USPSA?

 

[pmclaine]

Its only fitting....

Bet Gabe punches me in the dick if we ever meet........

 

[Hans7]

How's that 1 MOA dot working out in USPSA?

It is genuinely my favorite I’ve ever shot.

I was out shooting some training stages today and first shots we’re averaging .78-.88 (a few in the .6s) and splits were in the .14-.16 range consistently. I can pick this dot up as quick as anything and the precision for tiny steel @ 20m+ is awesome. It may not be for everyone but I’m loving it.

 

[CK1.0]

I haven't been much into shooting USPSA for the last year or so, but is that STI Stacatto thing even legal? I suppose the flashlight is good to go now too?

Did they make a division for them? SAO 1911/2011's with dots didn't have a home besides Open last I heard... (but truthfully, I haven't paid much attention since a while back when they said pretty much anything is legal and that there's no such thing as too heavy ...)

There will always be an outlier, but generally, for what I'd guess would amount to about 98 out of 100 shooters, a 1moa dot sucks donkey balls.

 

[pmclaine]

Looking at holsters now...

My long time favorite....

Silent Thunder OWB ''Ranger''

Silent Thunder Holsters were developed by Garrett in 2007. Best leather lined holsters in the marketplace for Conceal Carry, Range, Competition and Training.

www.giholsters.com

Garretts OWB Silent Thunder. I think all my guns have a version of this. I like the leather lining. The attachment options are many and it will even take an RTI wheel for use on a tactical belt during classes. Only downside with this gun is they wont accommodate a light and Im thinking the AXG may be a dedicated light gun. Still that Olight is a flip lever on/off so......hmmmmmm.

Next option would be....

Deep Carry DC-2 Paddle Holster

Shop wide range of the finest leather holsters online. Tucker Gun Leather offers concealment or concealed carry holster & custom holsters at the best prices.

tuckergunleather.com

Tucker Gun Leathers DC-2

They will make it cut for the RMR and accomodate the light. It will give me the leather lining so I dont concern myself with finish wear each draw but truth be told that is a pretty dumb thing to worry about. Thing that sucks is its paddle only for attachment and wont fit an RTI wheel.

I prefer belt slides never tried a paddle holster.

My favorite training holster is a Safariland with ALS. I really like the ALS security. Safariland wont accommodate an Olight like mine. I can fit a G-Code RTI adapter to Safariland. Safariland has that faux suede lining for finish protection....Something like this is probably their best suited offering....

7378 7TS™ ALS® Concealment Paddle and Belt Loop Combo Holster

The 7378 7TS is a concealment paddle and belt loop combo holster that combines the security of ALS® with the speed and simplicity of an open-top design.

safariland.com

I like that its compact. Too many holsters these days seem to be these big flat pancakes with screws on the outboard ends for attaching the wearing device which makes them even wider. Got to consider the amount of real estate these things fit to.

Last option would be a training holster..

Tactical Valknut OWB Custom Kydex Holster

Custom Tactical Valknut OWB Holster | Fully compatible with Safariland QLS & UBL or G-Code RTI #35 | can be mounted on belts or drop leg systems | select your gun and light model | Odin Holsters. Battle belt. Range day. Training tool.

odinholsters.com

It will accommodate my RMR and Olight choice, can take an RTI adapter. Though not intended for concealed carry it could take a belt slide, Lots of options regards appearance. No interior finish saving lining but that is not a deal breaker.

Anything out there I am missing realizing from what I posted my holster choices tend toward smaller footprint?

 

[308pirate]

I haven't been much into shooting USPSA for the last year or so, but is that STI Stacatto thing even legal? I suppose the flashlight is good to go now too?

Did they make a division for them? SAO 1911/2011's with dots didn't have a home besides Open last I heard... (but truthfully, I haven't paid much attention since a while back when they said pretty much anything is legal and that there's no such thing as too heavy ...)

There will always be an outlier, but generally, for what I'd guess would amount to about 98 out of 100 shooters, a 1moa dot sucks donkey balls.

You're right. Any SAO pistol with an optic goes to Open division in USPSA. However, his STI is carry optics legal in IDPA.

You're also right about the 1 MOA dot in practical pistol competition. Splits don't mean much to stage hit factor unless your movement is very efficient and your scoring mostly A's (at least with minor PF).

 

[308pirate]

Looking at holsters now...

My long time favorite....

View attachment 7680683

Silent Thunder OWB ''Ranger''

Silent Thunder Holsters were developed by Garrett in 2007. Best leather lined holsters in the marketplace for Conceal Carry, Range, Competition and Training.

www.giholsters.com

Garretts OWB Silent Thunder. I think all my guns have a version of this. I like the leather lining. The attachment options are many and it will even take an RTI wheel for use on a tactical belt during classes. Only downside with this gun is they wont accommodate a light and Im thinking the AXG may be a dedicated light gun. Still that Olight is a flip lever on/off so......hmmmmmm.

Next option would be....

View attachment 7680684

Deep Carry DC-2 Paddle Holster

Shop wide range of the finest leather holsters online. Tucker Gun Leather offers concealment or concealed carry holster & custom holsters at the best prices.

tuckergunleather.com

Tucker Gun Leathers DC-2

They will make it cut for the RMR and accomodate the light. It will give me the leather lining so I dont concern myself with finish wear each draw but truth be told that is a pretty dumb thing to worry about. Thing that sucks is its paddle only for attachment and wont fit an RTI wheel.

View attachment 7680685

I prefer belt slides never tried a paddle holster.

My favorite training holster is a Safariland with ALS. I really like the ALS security. Safariland wont accommodate an Olight like mine. I can fit a G-Code RTI adapter to Safariland. Safariland has that faux suede lining for finish protection....Something like this is probably their best suited offering....

View attachment 7680687

7378 7TS™ ALS® Concealment Paddle and Belt Loop Combo Holster

The 7378 7TS is a concealment paddle and belt loop combo holster that combines the security of ALS® with the speed and simplicity of an open-top design.

safariland.com

I like that its compact. Too many holsters these days seem to be these big flat pancakes with screws on the outboard ends for attaching the wearing device which makes them even wider. Got to consider the amount of real estate these things fit to.

Last option would be a training holster..

View attachment 7680689

Tactical Valknut OWB Custom Kydex Holster

Custom Tactical Valknut OWB Holster | Fully compatible with Safariland QLS & UBL or G-Code RTI #35 | can be mounted on belts or drop leg systems | select your gun and light model | Odin Holsters. Battle belt. Range day. Training tool.

odinholsters.com

It will accommodate my RMR and Olight choice, can take an RTI adapter. Though not intended for concealed carry it could take a belt slide, Lots of options regards appearance. No interior finish saving lining but that is not a deal breaker.

Anything out there I am missing realizing from what I posted my holster choices tend toward smaller footprint?

Have you checked Comp-Tac holsters yet?

 

[pmclaine]

Have you checked Comp-Tac holsters yet?

I like these.....

Looks like it would take a variety of mounts. would have to research if they do Olight.

 

[308pirate]

I like these.....

View attachment 7680703

Looks like it would take a variety of mounts. would have to research if they do Olight.

International Holster + Light

The International™ Holster with light and laser attachments are available in the drop-down box above. If your combination is not listed, we do not yet make International™ holsters with that attachment. Please do not choose a combination that does not fit your firearm and light. For questions...

www.comp-tac.com

 

[Hans7]

I haven't been much into shooting USPSA for the last year or so, but is that STI Stacatto thing even legal? I suppose the flashlight is good to go now too?

Did they make a division for them? SAO 1911/2011's with dots didn't have a home besides Open last I heard... (but truthfully, I haven't paid much attention since a while back when they said pretty much anything is legal and that there's no such thing as too heavy ...)

There will always be an outlier, but generally, for what I'd guess would amount to about 98 out of 100 shooters, a 1moa dot sucks donkey balls.

You are correct. I’m a carry optics shooter normally with a G17 and this 2011 is an open gun in USPSA and CO in IDPA.

My last post was just in respect to dot size and usability. The split and first shot times I posted were just an example of how a smaller dot was no hindrance. And the precision benefit on 6” steel at 20m+ is definitely there.

People generally think a smaller dot is harder to find on the draw and harder to maintain during recoil. I respectfully disagree because if your draw stroke and recoil management is there the dot doesn’t leave the window, doesn't matter if it’s 1MOA or 6MOA. If the dot is in the window, what does it matter if it’s bigger or smaller? For me, I’d rather have a smaller one that covers less of my target.
YMMV

 

[CK1.0]

You are correct. I’m a carry optics shooter normally with a G17 and this 2011 is an open gun in USPSA and CO in IDPA.

My last post was just in respect to dot size and usability. The split and first shot times I posted were just an example of how a smaller dot was no hindrance. And the precision benefit on 6” steel at 20m+ is definitely there.

People generally think a smaller dot is harder to find on the draw and harder to maintain during recoil. I respectfully disagree because if your draw stroke and recoil management is there the dot doesn’t leave the window, doesn't matter if it’s 1MOA or 6MOA. If the dot is in the window, what does it matter if it’s bigger or smaller? For me, I’d rather have a smaller one that covers less of my target.
YMMV

Ok, here's the thing: this whole "smaller dot covers up less of the target therefore is more precise" mantra is a fallacy.

Technically, if one is using a red dot correctly, with both eyes open (always), it doesn't matter what size the dot is really... because your non-dominant eye will "fill-in the blanks" for one's brain as far as any parts of the target being obscured by the dot in one's dominant eye view. If you don't believe me, keep your head straight and look hard left and right using only your eyes, whether looking left or right, the bridge of your nose was/is obscuring the view of one of your eyes the whole time, but since your other eye had the full visual info, your brain resolves the image and you don't notice your nose being in the way.

A smaller dot IS absolutely harder to find on the draw and maintain under recoil, because it's smaller, and therefore more difficult to see, water is wet too.

I stole borrowed this from C-More's site, target is at 50 yards which for most is about as far as most will ever ask of a handgun. For whatever reason, seems people talk about this subject of dot size and buy into one theory or another as some sort of ethos, without plainly considering what they're talking about actually looks like in the real world: