Doesnt look like they do "Carry" barel length or the Olight Mini.
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Sidearms & Scatterguns RDS Pistol people, why dont you have a seat right over here......
- Thread starter pmclaine
- Start date
When I first started asking I noted that the dual illumination RMRs have really high MOA offerings and I thought to myself "Dismiss Outright"....
seeing that though, and considering only speed and practical accuracy......bigger can be better.
I am now totally happy with my 6.25 choice even though, and as this post indicates, I kind of agonized over it.
I totally get it. The dot thing is strange in that they've been around forever, yet they're "new", and there's a lot of nonsense out there that one has to sift through when looking into them still...
There's all kinds of "mall-ninja/operator-guy" slanted opinions and ethos' on shit that have nothing to do with the dot as a sighting system. Guys' picking which dot to run based on what allows the coolest back-up sight options instead of dot-size and reticle options, and shit like that.
Then there's the folks who chime in that their way is best, even though that's all they know... ~2+ years ago I would've told you you're crazy for going with a dot bigger than 2-3moa, because that's what I had haha.
Anyways, we're all learning in this area as far as the dots are concerned, because both are true: they have been around forever, and they're kind of "new" still too...
For holsters, I like those 7TS ALS Safariland holsters too, that shit is slick and indestructible and the lock is probably the most unobtrusive out there that I've ever used. Personally, I don't open carry unless I'm being paid to, so if it's a OWB that's not just for fun I want retention of some sort.
There's this (as long as you buy a new light haha): https://safariland.com/products/mod...olster-model_7371?_pos=7&_sid=235f41112&_ss=r
Oh yeah: wanted to mention, Trijicon should be ashamed of themselves at this point... yeah, they are "the standard", but they probably don't deserve that title.
If one is honest, it's pretty terrible just how shitty both the SRO's and RMR's look next to some of the others' out there in respect to a true 1x undistorted sight. I just put an RMR on my bolt gun for target acquisition and it's freaky how funhouse the Trijicon dots are when looking out to distance. I may not even be able to use it. They're still the most durable out there IMO, but that's all they got going for them at this point.
IDK if "bright enough" and "doesn't break" is going to be enough for me going forward, I might actually want an actual 1x sight too haha.
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Different strokes brother, there’s pros and cons to everything! Like I said YMMV…For me and my use cases, 1-2.5moa dots are what I prefer.
Which doesn't matter precisely because of how binocular vision works in conjunction with reflex sights.
Yep. I'm objectively faster (and just as accurate) with a 5 MOA SRO than I am with a 2 MOA Holosun 507K
Yes and no.
With both eyes open, having a true 1x versus a slightly magnified not-really-1x can be kind of a big deal depending on one's eyes. Regardless of one's vision 100% of people will prefer the true 1x unmagnified because it's just an easier puzzle for our brains to solve.
When there's magnification present, our brain's can resolve the image to a point, but because each one of one's eyes are physically seeing different things (one unmagnified view, the other view magnified slightly) it fucks with us.
For some it doesn't bother them enough to even care, for others it's a huge deal making some of them out there tough to call useable (looking at you MRO).
I've looked for this "magnification" in either of my SROs and I can't find it. I can see some distortion towards the edges of the lens in my RMR. I think that's what people think is "magnification".
Whether they have any or not, they are sure not slowing me down in a stage.
Thank you for the experience based responses.
No open carry where I live, so OWB and cover shirts are my style. Saving money on not buying a second pants wardrobe 2 inches bigger in the waste lets me pay for indestructible, US made dots that look like busted assholes on occasion.
To anyone looking at dots........I think you need to see them outside. I was pleased to note at the range my dot became more dot like less crab nebula. Not a clean circle like the examples above but better and the blue Trijicon glass calms the negative waves...
Knowing what I know now I might be a bit more interested in some of the dual illum. RMRs sporting bigger dots with my concern being the fiber window discolors over time or the tritium dies in ten years.
Im good now....expecting Suarez sights are on the way. Slide those in the dovetails and this will be bomb proof for anything I can imagine needing it for.
Kind of experienced some of this in class when using a seldom used AR with a TA33 (3X) ACOG after frequently using an Aimpoint Pro.
This is me with Aimpoint...
What my brain is telling me to be with the unfamiliar ACOG....
Using the ACOG tommorow in a Mid Range carbine class.......gonna train that shit out. Bindon Concept bros!
Wrong
I even contacted them and asked which one specifically would fit an X carry slide. Mine doesn’t match any of the pics…
View attachment 7681387
View attachment 7681388
With the square face of your sight/red dot cover Im thinking this may be you....
Trijicon RMR/SRO Adapter Plate for SIG SAUER P320 X-Carry
Buy Trijicon RMR/SRO Adapter Plate for SIG SAUER P320 X-Carry featuring Matte Black Anodized Steel, Easy to Install. Review Trijicon null
www.bhphotovideo.com
Nothing CPHWS has looks like it matched your slide.
It looks like the Trij piece from B&H provides no recoil locks under the plate
Sending the Chinesium Olight back to Wuhan.
Arrived earlier in the week. Opened the box first thing that caught my eye was that the rail clamp flipper appears to be some magnesium alloy, ie "potmetal", under the shiny paint.
Beam appears bright enough, if wide, and not center focused as I expect from my Surefires or even an issued Streamlight. Cant get over the cheap looking flip lever when being accustomed to ADM stuff. My going chinese kind of made me feel dirty anyway.
Probably just run this pistol au naturel. It will make holster buying easier, maybe I will use the light money to buy an MGW sight tool and install the incoming Suarez sights on my own.
Arrived earlier in the week. Opened the box first thing that caught my eye was that the rail clamp flipper appears to be some magnesium alloy, ie "potmetal", under the shiny paint.
Beam appears bright enough, if wide, and not center focused as I expect from my Surefires or even an issued Streamlight. Cant get over the cheap looking flip lever when being accustomed to ADM stuff. My going chinese kind of made me feel dirty anyway.
Probably just run this pistol au naturel. It will make holster buying easier, maybe I will use the light money to buy an MGW sight tool and install the incoming Suarez sights on my own.
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Damn you @Mr. Z
Got this to go with it...
So training holster and light quandry are settled with my most favorite solutions.
Im going to get the Garrett holster option for the occasional concealed carry times. that version X300U has the coin slot screw rail clamp so for carry I will just go without the light.
Order Details:
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Got this to go with it...
So training holster and light quandry are settled with my most favorite solutions.
Im going to get the Garrett holster option for the occasional concealed carry times. that version X300U has the coin slot screw rail clamp so for carry I will just go without the light.
Gotta love the surefire x300 and safari land. Won’t even consider another holster. I got one for my RDS when it comes in and my normal Glock 19.
This will be my third X300. Wish they made a half pint version but the battery dictates the length Im guessing.
Guess the snout will be ahead of blast so glass on light should stay clear even though the body will get cooked.
Agreed fo training use Safariland is the best. Have my G-Code adapter ordered.
Regarding MOA dots and optics. The "dot" that is viewed by the operator is not proportional to the MOA the "dot represents". A 8 MOA dot is not visually 4 times larger in the optic lens then a 2 MOA dot. An extreme example are my EOTECH holographic sights with a 1 MOA central "aiming dot" enclosed with a 68 MOA circle; the central dot is not 1/68" of the diameter of the illuminated 68 MOA circle, one would have to have an optical window the size of large sports flat TV screen. I think a lot of confusion regarding dot size exists about this elementary concept.
I just finished a Mossberg 590 shockwave conversion to SBR project with a Vang Comp ported barrel; Vang Comp recommends a Holsun 32 MOA red dot optic as that is consistent with the "cone" of pellet projection for their porting, i.e. at 25 yards the Holsun dot represents 8" which is about the Vang Comp patterning at that distance. The "dot" that would be seen by the operator is not 4X of a 8 MOA size dot of similar optics.
I just finished a Mossberg 590 shockwave conversion to SBR project with a Vang Comp ported barrel; Vang Comp recommends a Holsun 32 MOA red dot optic as that is consistent with the "cone" of pellet projection for their porting, i.e. at 25 yards the Holsun dot represents 8" which is about the Vang Comp patterning at that distance. The "dot" that would be seen by the operator is not 4X of a 8 MOA size dot of similar optics.
Said who? Where did you get this information?
Show your work.
Everything you said sounds like fudd bullshit.
Wrong
I even contacted them and asked which one specifically would fit an X carry slide. Mine doesn’t match any of the pics…
View attachment 7681387
View attachment 7681388
WTF leave it to SIG to fuck up a wet dream. Something so simple (see CZ's Optic Ready plate system) made FUBAR.
Got my X300U yesterday....I feel cleansed.
How Chinese is Olight?
This is from my email correspondence requesting an RMA....
发件人: PMcLaine
已发送: 8/23/2021 6:50 下午
收件人: [email protected]
主题: Re: 回复： Re: Request for Return Authorization
Whats weird is half hour after the Chinese Olight arrived I wanted to buy another one.
How Chinese is Olight?
This is from my email correspondence requesting an RMA....
发件人: PMcLaine
已发送: 8/23/2021 6:50 下午
收件人: [email protected]
主题: Re: 回复： Re: Request for Return Authorization
Whats weird is half hour after the Chinese Olight arrived I wanted to buy another one.
Pretty sure that's exactly what it means, chief.
I've got 1moa 3moa 6moa and 8moa RDS in my stable and you can absolutely see the difference so I'm not sure wtf you're smoking but it's some good stuff.
Easy way to find out, zero your Eotech and then use the top of the circle at 100yds. Tell us what happens after you get kicked off the range.
1moa is the approximate resolution of the human eye. If it’s smaller and bright, you see it. If it’s smaller and dark, good luck.
The specific reason for the smaller-than-1moa dot is so you can put a magnifier behind the sight and still see a dot that’s 1moa.
I understand the "why's" my primary point was to mention the fact that the two illuminated representations (MOA dot central and 68 moa ring) in the Eotech is that the illuminations are scaled differently in order to be viewed by the operator as there is no way one could align the central 1 moa dot x 68 thru the center of the ring to define the 68 MOA circle; it appears as though about 15-18 MOA dots would create the diameter for the 68 MOA ring.
What is the charge on paper if he tapes tritium to a firecracker?
Got my slide with RMR compatible sights back.
Of course mail showed up minutes after I left work.
Sights look great! More daylight for front to nestle in than Im used to. Looks that they are intended for practical purposes.
Got my Garrett holster ordered. Except for ammo my spending on this project is done.
Try to get time tonight to put everything back together.
Of course mail showed up minutes after I left work.
Sights look great! More daylight for front to nestle in than Im used to. Looks that they are intended for practical purposes.
Got my Garrett holster ordered. Except for ammo my spending on this project is done.
Try to get time tonight to put everything back together.
Time to seek out USPSA matches. Definitely lots to choose from in your area.
Taking it even moderately seriously will push your skills to the next level, I promise you.
Thank you all for your valued input and help....
This thread is done...
This thread is done...
Wait!.....There's more!
That is one beast of a holster!
Set up for the training belt....G-Code RTI use....
See you later big shield...
Thinking I may lose the top strap. The holster itself has the ALS security lock....kind of a pain having two redundant security features...
I like the shield for the RMR to keep donut crumbs out....Probably keep the RMR covered and strap in place behind the firing line but when intending to draw/drill rotate it forward prior to the drill and only use the ALS lock as I am accustomed to.
What an engineering marvel.
That is one beast of a holster!
Set up for the training belt....G-Code RTI use....
See you later big shield...
Thinking I may lose the top strap. The holster itself has the ALS security lock....kind of a pain having two redundant security features...
I like the shield for the RMR to keep donut crumbs out....Probably keep the RMR covered and strap in place behind the firing line but when intending to draw/drill rotate it forward prior to the drill and only use the ALS lock as I am accustomed to.
What an engineering marvel.
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It does not take any longer to draw from the Level 3 SLS/ALS holster than an ALS. You just have to multi-task and manipulate the
controls in one continuous motion. Only a very sophisticated bad guy might be able to liberate your firearm out of a Level 3 holster ; keep the protective hood makes it even more unlikely.
Bill Rogers demonstrates the technique taught at the elite Rogers Shooting School. I happened to be there when this video was made.
www.dropbox.com
controls in one continuous motion. Only a very sophisticated bad guy might be able to liberate your firearm out of a Level 3 holster ; keep the protective hood makes it even more unlikely.
Bill Rogers demonstrates the technique taught at the elite Rogers Shooting School. I happened to be there when this video was made.
Dropbox
www.dropbox.com
It does not take any longer to draw from the Level 3 SLS/ALS holster than an ALS. You just have to multi-task and manipulate the
controls in one continuous motion. Only a very sophisticated bad guy might be able to liberate your firearm out of a Level 3 holster ; keep the protective hood makes it even more unlikely.
Bill Rogers demonstrates the technique taught at the elite Rogers Shooting School. I happened to be there when this video was made.
Dropbox
View attachment 7696984View attachment 7696985
My M45A1 holster has SLS only.
My M&P/M18 holsters have ALS only.
Im guessing I can learn to walk/chew gum and operate both together.
By the way did you see how beautiful a job the installer did on my Suarez sights?
That's nonsense. See you at the Rogers School and you'll learn first hand it's just not true.
LOL yeah okay. You went to what a 3 day class and listened to a former feebs schpiel and you think that gives you some kind of status?
Been on the job just shy of 17 years started with an SLS holster and carried several different guns DAILY for years before ALS even existed.
Been to instructor classes, classes taught by instructors, SWAT, tens of thousands of rounds probably hundreds of thousands of draws.
ALS is simpler, and faster, and much more conducive to what matters, getting the fucking gun out fast when you need it.
You went to a pistol school, good for you. How much weapons retention training have you done? How many fights you been in with a weapon on your hip? How many times you pulled one out and pointed one at somebody doing something that alarmed you?
But yes, I'm sure you're right... you're pistol class trumps my nearly two decades of experience
The irony here is you're trying to argue there's no loss of speed, not the case but we'll come back to that.
I'm arguing anybody relying on holster features to retain their weapon is an idiot. You're the retention mechanism. Not the holster.
Once you have that epiphany, you'll see the light and the wisdom of removing any and all obstacles not absolutely necessary and minimal to executing your draw.
Then again, it's easy to overlook how shit like this can hang you up when you're shooting paper that doesn't have an I'll will in store for you.
Introduce adrenaline, injuries, blood, weather, and manipulating your level 7 "mother-may-i" holster gets a little less reliable but you do you boo.
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Just can’t let your profound trolling or keyboard ignorance go unchecked.
It’s clear you know nothing about my experience with firearms or about the Rogers Shooting School. It is considered a finishing school for many U.S. and worldwide elite military units / gov’t agencies before they deploy and subsequently to maintain their proficiency.
The Rogers School testing program has long been established and recognized worldwide as the most difficult and comprehensive qualifying course of fire used by any known shooting academy or school.
You would be surprised to know how many like-minded LEO and military operators show up to the Rogers School and humbly learn by Monday afternoon that they are unable to even achieve a Practical Rating on their testing program. By Friday a few of them still haven’t attained a Practical rating.A few years ago the Secret Service team arrived on Monday and by Wednesday they all left after just 3 days as none could achieve a Practical pistol rating.
I have attended the Rogers School 1-2 weeks per year for the past 20 years and have Advanced Ratings in all of their courses of fire .I shoot thousands of rounds a month training with holsters. Authored 27 firearm technical manuals.NRA instructor for all disciplines. Former U.S. Navy Commander augmentee to NSW, deployed to Africa and the Middle East theaters. Bill Rogers is a friend that started his holster company in the 1970’s and subsequently sold to Safariland where he has been designing and manufacturing their holsters for decades. I have trained with every Safariland style of holster.
Oh, and 10 years as a civilian and combat trauma surgeon so please save your adrenaline and blood spew for those that don't know any better.
Attend the School, earn an Advanced rating and we'll chat again.
It’s clear you know nothing about my experience with firearms or about the Rogers Shooting School. It is considered a finishing school for many U.S. and worldwide elite military units / gov’t agencies before they deploy and subsequently to maintain their proficiency.
The Rogers School testing program has long been established and recognized worldwide as the most difficult and comprehensive qualifying course of fire used by any known shooting academy or school.
You would be surprised to know how many like-minded LEO and military operators show up to the Rogers School and humbly learn by Monday afternoon that they are unable to even achieve a Practical Rating on their testing program. By Friday a few of them still haven’t attained a Practical rating.A few years ago the Secret Service team arrived on Monday and by Wednesday they all left after just 3 days as none could achieve a Practical pistol rating.
I have attended the Rogers School 1-2 weeks per year for the past 20 years and have Advanced Ratings in all of their courses of fire .I shoot thousands of rounds a month training with holsters. Authored 27 firearm technical manuals.NRA instructor for all disciplines. Former U.S. Navy Commander augmentee to NSW, deployed to Africa and the Middle East theaters. Bill Rogers is a friend that started his holster company in the 1970’s and subsequently sold to Safariland where he has been designing and manufacturing their holsters for decades. I have trained with every Safariland style of holster.
Oh, and 10 years as a civilian and combat trauma surgeon so please save your adrenaline and blood spew for those that don't know any better.
Attend the School, earn an Advanced rating and we'll chat again.
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Not sure what that means, not a military guy but thanks for your service.
Not impressed with NRA instructor ratings I've seen the qual requirements.
What does being a surgeon have to do with guns, marksmanship, or fighting people with guns. Or are you trying to say because you work around blood it won't affect your ability to manipulate your doohickey holster? I was referring more to having it on your hands than the sight of it, but whatevs.
You didn't answer any of my questions.
Where you at? If you're close enough I'll drive there and pay your entry fee to a local USPSA match so you can show everyone how it's done at the Rogers School.
That'd be a small price to pay to be in the presence of such an esteemed "combat master"
You're not Ignatius Piazza by chance?
PS, I know what the word "agumentee" means. It's not impressive.
Most of his post is about other people and their accomplishments or lack thereof. His buddy Rogers has this great school, that everyone but him fails out of, etc. etc.
Never heard of it but that doesn't really mean anything. My gripe is with the whole relying on holster widgets for retention thing. That's bad juju and anybody saying otherwise is a dumb shit.
If he's got half the trigger time he claims I'm amazed he fails to see how adding levels of retention doesn't come at the cost of time to deactivate them prior to a draw.
Think of it like locks on a door. I can open a door with one lock faster than a door with two locks even though the door with two locks might make me feel safer.
I wonder if they try it with a shot timer because the ALS guys consistently light up targets ahead of SLS or SLS/ALS combo holsters every time I'm on a line.
Never heard of it but that doesn't really mean anything. My gripe is with the whole relying on holster widgets for retention thing. That's bad juju and anybody saying otherwise is a dumb shit.
If he's got half the trigger time he claims I'm amazed he fails to see how adding levels of retention doesn't come at the cost of time to deactivate them prior to a draw.
Think of it like locks on a door. I can open a door with one lock faster than a door with two locks even though the door with two locks might make me feel safer.
I wonder if they try it with a shot timer because the ALS guys consistently light up targets ahead of SLS or SLS/ALS combo holsters every time I'm on a line.
The courses of fire in that "Elite Rogers School" never change and people pay to practice them over and over there or at some other range in GA that has the same system.
Is Rogers easy? Not really. Is it uber difficult? Not really, not from the videos I've seen of the courses of fire. The target presentations for each drill and test never seem to change and there is little to no movement involved. Some of the tests are mostly or all one handed shooting, so those aren't so easy for sure. But I'd rather suck at weak hand shooting and be very good at getting good hits while moving aggressively.
I think competition is the best training tool myself because you never get to set yourself up for success and you don't have the benefit of prior knowledge. It's the best measure of true on demand performance.
I'm not saying drills and set course of fire shooting don't have their place. I think it's better for measuring performance to a minimum standard than for pushing the performance to higher standards.
Reason being, with enough practice and repetition you can train to pass anything.
It's a lot harder to show up to a course of fire you've never seen before, designed by somebody you've never met, and perform well on the first attempt, cold, on demand.
Just my take
I'm not saying drills and set course of fire shooting don't have their place. I think it's better for measuring performance to a minimum standard than for pushing the performance to higher standards.
Reason being, with enough practice and repetition you can train to pass anything.
It's a lot harder to show up to a course of fire you've never seen before, designed by somebody you've never met, and perform well on the first attempt, cold, on demand.
Just my take
I think competition is the best training tool myself because you never get to set yourself up for success and you don't have the benefit of prior knowledge. It's the best measure of true on demand performance.
I'm not saying drills and set course of fire shooting don't have their place. I think it's better for measuring performance to a minimum standard than for pushing the performance to higher standards.
Reason being, with enough practice and repetition you can train to pass anything.
It's a lot harder to show up to a course of fire you've never seen before, designed by somebody you've never met, and perform well on the first attempt, cold, on demand.
Just my take
You're not alone in that reasoning. https://www.xrayalpha.com/
People think that USPSA is easy because you can see the stages ahead of time and walk them through. Then they try it for the first time......LOL.
anyone running the rmr dual illum with 9moa? wondering what the aimpoint looks like at full dark or bright light. debating between this and the type 2.
Get the any of the LED models with the buttons on the side. Pick whatever size dot you want but trust me when i tell you that you want the largest one (6.5 MOA)
I have two 5 MOA SROs, one RMR (RM07, which adjustable LED with a 6.5 MOA dot), and Holosun 507CX.
The LED RMRs with the side buttons have three modes: manually adjustable brightness, locked brightness, and auto adjust brightness. My RMR lives on my carry gun (a G19) and it's on constantly in auto brightness mode. The RMR's auto brightness feature is remarkable in its sensitivity and reaction speed. The SRO has the same modes but its auto brightness is not as responsive as the RMR's. It's close but not the same. Holosun's auto brightness mode is completely useless and it makes Holosun products unsuitable for serious use.
I haven't tested my RMR for washout due to WML, mostly because I don't have any WMLs, but I can assure you that I have zero problems standing in a pitch black room, aiming into a brightly lit one, and seeing a perfectly illuminated dot.
I will not use any pistol mounted RDS for defensive purposes whose auto brightness feature isn't as good as the RMR's, and none are as good as the RMR.
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