Reasonable accuracy expectations .223 on progressive

[PowerstrokeOBX]

I know this is a very open ended question and will have different results from different components used but here it goes.

I know many people don't reload "precision/match" grade reloads on a progressive. I want to build a bolt gun in 223 with high quality parts for a "cheap trainer" rifle to practice with and be able to shoot more than my match and hunting guns. (I was going to build a .22 but there's no love for lefty .22 shooters and I'm not spending 2000 on a .22).

I want to buy a progressive for reloading .223 because I have about 20000 pcs of 1x good brass and I hate reloading on a single stage. If I use a good metering powder and a good match grade bullet what kind of accuracy and deviation should I be looking at?


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[SPEAK338]

I load my 5.56 AR ammo on a dillon 550, LC brass , varget, 77 SMK. I shoot 1 moa with it regularly at distance. No problem with a good progressive

 

[1idCat]

I load precision .223 on a LNLAP, and shoot it out to 800 yards from a 26" WOA varmint AR. It'll stay under about 3/4 MOA vertical, but windage, well, windage requires some ability.

I use 77 gr Noslers, Win cases, Rem 7 1/2 primers, and 24.0 gr of Varget individually weighed. 24.0 gr of TAC works almost as well without weighing. As always, work up loads safely for your rifle.

 

[ksthomas]

Depends on the rifle (of course) but anywhere from 1/4 to 1/3 MOA, with virtually none of the groups going over 1/2 MOA, if you do your part. I ran a rather lengthy test on this some years back, at a time when I was totally buried in work doing daily QC testing. I was loading and firing anywhere from 7-800 rounds a day, literally 70-80 ten shot groups a shift, with ALL the rifle ammo being loaded on single stage presses. At that time, I had two Dillon 550s set up that I used for loading handgun test ammo, but not rifles. In a rather desperate attempt to keep up with the veritable shitload of QC firings, I started thinking about trying the Dillons for the 223s, which I was using to test 52s, 53s, and 55 grain bullets at the time. I decided to give it a try, knowing what sort of average groups each of these runs had been producing over the past couple weeks. If it worked, it'd save me a bunch of time loading, and if not (or if the groups opened up), I'd go right back to the single stage presses and only be out a little time for the effort. I set one of them up, and began loading QC samples with it. No difference. The groups didn't open up a bit over what I'd been seeing from that run for the past few weeks, with most hovering anywhere from 1/4 to 1/3 MOA fro ten rounds @ 200 yards. None went over 1/2 MOA, which would have been danger close to failing and having to reject that barrel. I continued this for the next couple weeks, throughout the rest of the run, monitoring the results and keeping track of the average group size. When it was done I evaluated the groups fired before, which were loaded on single stage presses, and after, with those loaded on the 550. Statistically speaking, there was no difference whatsoever. From that point forward, I loaded virtually ALL of our test ammo for 223s on the Dillons.

I wrote the results up and forwarded them on to Dillon, which they promptly used in an article for their "Blue Press" catalog. Can't remember what issue that was, and I don't know if they have any means of tracking back articles like that. In any case, I was using sized and deprimed cases, priming, charging and bullet seating on the Dillon. I used either Forster or Redding competition (sleeve style) seaters, and a Redding BR-30 powder measure in place of the stock Dillon measure. The powder was usually Benchmark (though I did use a couple others as well) and primers were usually Fed 205Ms. Aside from those minor alterations, the press was completely as issued. Since then, I've continued to load my own match ammo via this method, and never had an issue. This is Service Rifle ammo, used for everything from local matches to the Nationals at Camp Perry.

Trust me, if you do your part on the set up and operation of the progressive, it'll do well for you.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I use the Dillon RL550B and an RCBS 2-die F/L die set with PPU brass, HDY 75gr HPBTM (no moly) at 2.260" COAL, CCI BR-4, and 23.7gr of Varget. At 250yd it is F Open-competitive. I have four .223's with 1:9" twist or faster, barrel lengths ranging from 16", thru 20", and up to 24"; and this load appears to be a generic accuracy load for all of them.

It even makes my Mossberg .223 MVP Predator look a lot better on paper than a basic truck gun.

I am accumulating HDY 75gr HPBTM a box a month, there are other folks out there who should have some too. BTW, this load also works well with collet pulled PPU 75gr Match HPBT's, which I am holding aside in case the HDY's dry up.

I also reload TulAmmo Boxer Primed steel .223 cases with these bullets and BR-4 primers. The TulAmmo cases are reduced capacity, and need to be treated as a different, smaller chambering that fits in between 222 and 223. Preliminary experimentation shows similar accuracy with 22.0-22.2gr of Varget, but this load will not lock back the BCG after the last round. Shoots great in a bolt gun, though; but I need to test it beyond 100yd before I consider it for match shooting.

Greg

 

[jmorris]

Even with my mixed brass, bulk 55g FMJ stuff, kids who have never shot a center fire rifle, have no problem hitting a 9" steel plate @ 300yds at my "farm" range. Sort your brass and use "good" bullets and you can do sub MOA pretty easy (if you and the rifle can).

This is my .223 press.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La83ZVKnBzw

 

[bruddah]

Good to know. I wouldn't have thought you could that easy get match grade ammo off of a progressive.

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

[MENTION=56133]SPEAK338[/MENTION] [MENTION=13499]1idCat[/MENTION] [MENTION=28929]ksthomas[/MENTION] [MENTION=91]Greg Langelius *[/MENTION] [MENTION=10377]jmorris[/MENTION]

Thanks for the quick replies. I think I am going to sell one of my ARs and get a progressive setup. Either a Dillon or hornady ammo plant. Anyways that's another topic.

Having never ran a progressive Next question ; What should my process and die setup look like? I'm not using military crimp brass and I don't need to crimp for AR use yet. Just bolt gun.

Here's what I was thinking and please let me know what you guys think.

Tumble
Lube
Throw cases into feeder
Stage 1 FL size and deprime
Stage 2 Prime
Stage 3 charge
Stage 4 powder check
Stage 5 hand feed bullets and seat on a sleeve seater

Is feeding lubed cases through a case feeder a no no? Should I do my sizing/decap on my single stage then tumble lube off?

Or should I run 2 tool heads with 1 head for brass prep?

How about trimming? Using mild loads how much are y'all trimming? I only after the first firing on my creedmoor.



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[RadarsRUs]

Hello Powerstroke (Ford truck I take it)...

The dies' sequence sounds right and YES, do use a Powder-Cop in there before your seating (and watch it every time you pull). What you have described is a fairly Production Oriented reloading situation for the ammo. You are Improving the Quality (low Run-Out) of those rounds Big-Time by using a FORSTERS BR Seating Die! Hint...FORSTERS with micrometer is Ultimate beauty!

I run a Hornady LNL but Not an Ammo Plant. I am a little more fussy on the Pre-Loading side with a FL Sizing of brass after depriming and ultrasonic bath. Unfortunately (you will eventually have to learn the true "joy" of this step), I ALSO case-trim to length spec with in-out chamfer each time I reload my .223's Before going to the progressive.

Consider using a powder like Benchmark (light bullets) or IMR 8208-XBR for heavier pills because (small kernels) they Drop Charges much more uniformly than Varget or 4895 (large kernels). I personally Love 8208 XBR. It also burns much more cleanly than another favorite VV-N135.

My experience is usually about 1/2-1/3 MOA at 100 yds with 18" Shillen 1-8 U-Match AR pushing 69g. Nosler Cust-Comps in Mixed Brass at a little Over Book Max in charge weigh. PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK THERE... 8208-XBR and Tula 556M's to make things go.

PS: Reloading is FUN, got my Savage bone-stock 12-BTCSS in .223 shooting a .209 MOA last week (5 rnds.) from Hand-Made ammo with weighed charges, optimized cartridge length and 69g. SMK's. WooHooo!

 

[ZombieMonkey]

I load precision loads capable of sub 3/4 MOA accuracy for 223 with my Dillon 650 and did so as well with the Hornady LNL AP when I had that too. Ammo may even be capable of smaller groups consistently, but the SPR I shoot it out of averages around that 3/4 MOA mark with the occasional sub .5 MOA 5 shot groups. Set your stuff up well and they can be very consistent. The biggest thing is going to be using a powder that will meter consistently. I TAC and Accurate 2520 both meter very consistently. My loads have been as accurate or more so than FGMM or the Fiochi match that my rifle likes.

 

[elfster1234]

you can 100% make top notch ammo on a progressive... all of my ammo is done on a hornady LNL progressive press... just use the press in stages for rifle ammo, and use the progressive aspect of the press for pistol and blastin ammo.

I know this is a very open ended question and will have different results from different components used but here it goes.

I know many people don't reload "precision/match" grade reloads on a progressive. I want to build a bolt gun in 223 with high quality parts for a "cheap trainer" rifle to practice with and be able to shoot more than my match and hunting guns. (I was going to build a .22 but there's no love for lefty .22 shooters and I'm not spending 2000 on a .22).

I want to buy a progressive for reloading .223 because I have about 20000 pcs of 1x good brass and I hate reloading on a single stage. If I use a good metering powder and a good match grade bullet what kind of accuracy and deviation should I be looking at?


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[PowerstrokeOBX]

20,000 1x 223 brass? Nobody mentioned swaging? If you have unswayed brass mixed in, the primer systems on most progressives will drive you nuts... If your not changing calibers often really consider the Dillion 1050 with built in swaging


Jt

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It's not military brass. Hornady, Remington, And fiocci


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[Pinecone]

No problem running lubed cases through a Dillon. I do it all the time with my 650.

I have a bunch of 1x mil cases, so I make a pass with a Lee Universal Decapper at Station 1, and a Dillon Carbide Sizing die at Station 2. Lube cases with Dillon Spray Lube and start pulling the handle.

I tumble the decapped/sized cases in corn cob media to remove the lube, and then sage with a Dillon 600 Super Swage.

Then when I go to load, I have to clean the case feeder. Paper towels with some denatured alcohol work great. I wipe down the bowl and case feeder plate, and run a "patch" down the tube.

The load using Station 1 empty, Station 2 - powder measure, Station 3 - Empty (I can see if there is powder and a double charge is obvious from powder EVERYWHERE), Station 4 - Bullet Seater, Station 5 - Lee FCD is desired. I then tumble the loaded rounds (vibratory tumbler) for about 15 minutes to remove any residual case lube and finger prints.