Reasonable goals for first year of precision rifle shooting

[krimet]

First, I'll give a little context in terms of my own experience. I'm an experienced hunter/shooter. In the past I spent way more time with my shotguns. Tons of shells shot between NSCA competitions and upland bird hunting. On the rifle side, it's the usual suspects - Deer, pigs, maybe a rabbit if I'm particularly bored. I wouldn't say Im a guaranteed MOA shooter. I've honestly just started collecting the data to know whether I'm a MOA shooter or not. Based on the data I've collected so far (about 60 5 shot groups), I range from .3 MOA to 1.7 MOA bench rest with a bipod. I imagine I can improve that a little bit once my rear bag comes in. I also intend to put more time in with my rifles in general. Like many I believed the only reasonable ranges for shooting were within 250 yds. And then.... I came across some precision rifle info that led me to this site. Which leads me to the real questions:

Now that I know that people are regularly shooting their rifles at much longer ranges with success, I want to stretch my own legs. I'm already working on the equipment piece (precision rifle, bags, etc.). So, we don't have to touch on that. I have access to enough space to easily setup a rifle range to shoot out to 1000+ yds. So, I've ordered a bunch of steel targets to lay out at various distances. Looking at 2020, what would be some reasonable goals?

For example, In my head I made the arbitrary goal that "I want to be able to consistently shoot a target at 1000 yds". However, I don't know how to frame that within reason. Meaning, should it be a 10" gong (~1 MOA)? Or is that completely ludicrous? My ultimate goal is to be a well rounded marksman. So, the answer may be that it is completely reasonable if you're prone, but good luck if you're kneeling. PRS competition might be a good framework as I work my way to various distances. If that is the case, maybe you guys have some ideas on that. Something along the lines of "just about every strong PRS competitor can hit a x MOA target at 300 yds while kneeling with barricade". Any information will be greatly appreciated.

 

[SD Carpenter]

The best way is to go to local matches and play against yourself. Kind of like golf, where you see where you stack up against your last match.

Going for accuracy is a good first goal like you said, after you consistently make hits then try to do it faster. A shot timer is a great investment.

 

[salks]

If it were me I would make the targets bigger than MOA most PRs targets are. You can have everything perfectly right but at a 1000yards even 500yards the wind and being able to read it ,is key. A bigger target with a 10 " painted circle would make it easier to spot where you miss

 

[lash]

Despite your effort to provide detail to your question, there are a bunch of variables that affect any real answer. Here’s an attempt to answer some of your questions.

If you’re as new to this as it sounds, then you should be generous to yourself regarding expectations and results. Start with at least 2 moa targets at the ranges you have available to you. Especially at the longer ranges of 600-1000 yards. Personally I’m partial to 2 moa and 1 moa targets at every range.The 2 moa plus targets are necessary to work up dope for new shooters and loads and the 1 moa targets are better for challenging yourself once you get it down a bit.

You need to allow yourself some ability to detect rounds that are not on target at first. This also assumes that you are going to practice prone or other static and supported positions enough at first to become proficient with your rifle. The real answer to your title question depends additionally on your base abilities and your willingness to expend the time and ammunition to get good at your shooting.

Then there are other variables too. Your rifle’s capability, your ammunition’s capability and your locale.

All said and done, with a good rifle you should be able to work your way to good 1000 yard impacts fairly quickly. It boils down to practice, learning proper form and fundamentals and more practice.

Oh, and take a class somewhere before the year is done. What you will learn at a quality class will serve you better than all of the ammo that you’ll shoot on your own all year.

Opinions, you asked, you got ‘em.

 

[krimet]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the info. Keep it coming. The suggestions for larger targets are in line with what I was thinking. I've already picked up some 4", 6" and 8" targets to start working outward with. I intend to pick up some larger targets as well (someone always seems to have an IPSC on sale). That way I could paint a bullseye and get some feedback if I'm off. Re: taking a class - I was thinking the same thing. I've had good luck mixing formal training with "goof off" shooting in other disciplines.

 

[sled_mack]

Maybe consider the question differently. Pick a target size and max distance that you can make 95% or better first round hits from any supported position (prone, barricade, tripod, etc) in any weather conditions. Then work to extend that range.

For me, there is a big difference between prone and barricade with regards to first round hits. This thinking encourages more practice not prone. It’s also not the same for all of my rifles. My “confidence” distance is less with my AR than my 300WM.

You also have to practice in various weather conditions to know how your system is going to react on any given day.

Just a different way to challenge yourself.

 

[krimet]

For sure. This has been really helpful. I wanted to be sure I was setting a proper baseline for realistic goals.

 

[Dthomas3523]

How many rounds do you shoot a week/month/year? Do you have regular access to longer (600+ )? Will you be shooting any matches this year and if so, how many?

Someone shooting 1k rnds/yr and a couple matches is going to have different realistic expectations than someone shooting a couple matches a month and 5k rnds/yr.

 

[C_R_Slacker]

Understand how to input good data into a ballistic calculator. Use that calculator to collect d.o.p.e. for your rifle. As others have said, bigger targets are useful for this. True your calculator to your observed d.o.p.e. by tweaking muzzle velocity and/or b.c. Learn to use the wind reading method frank and others have talked about on here and on the everyday sniper podcast. Understand how changing environmental factors affect your d.o.p.e.

Practice dot drills. Practice positional shooting. Keep stretching your cold bore comfort range. Getting hits at 1,000+ is a lot easier after you've "walked it out" from closer ranges than it is on the first round of the day.

Understand that conditions aren't always conducive to shooting at 1,000+ yards, especially if you're shooting by yourself. Where i live, mirage often makes it hard to see hits on steel or splash on misses. If you can't see your errors, it's really hard to make adjustments and learn from mistakes. On days like that, you're better served practicing at intermediate ranges on challenging sized targets.

As far as expectations, as someone else said, it depends how much work you put into it. Getting pretty consistent hits at 1,000 on an IPSC target should be very reasonable expectations for your first year even if you don't get out that often.

You've come to the right place and you seem to have a good attitude about it. Just get on here often and read, read, read. I've learned a ton here.

 

[stello1001]

I guess I see myself somewhere in the same position as you are or perhaps slightly ahead. I still consider myself very new to this. I do not have access to land like you do and almost never have the time to shoot. Regardless of that, I decided to head out to a local fabrication shop and got me a 12x12 AR500 plate cut for me. Shortly after getting it, I was invited out to a ranch and decided it would be a great opportunity to take my rifle and plate. I had never done any type of LR shooting but on that first outting, I was able to get very consistent hits on it with very cheap ammo.

Just recently, I had the opportunity to stretch out. I was able to easily hit that 12x12 plate out to 700 yards. It was stupid boring, that I stretched out to 1000. I was only able to send about 10 rounds until I had a squib which ended my day. If your not familiar with a squib, it's pretty much an empty case. As I "fired" it, the primer ignited but did not burn any powder. The primer igniting was enough to send the bullet out just a bit and got it stuck in my rifling. Anyhow, I did not get a single impact at 1000 but I was spotting all my misses and they were literally just off by very very little. If I could have sent a few more downrange, I may have been able to figure it out and put some on the plate.

I think you should have no problem whatsoever getting out to 1000 on at least a 14x14 plate within a few months, being that you have access to a lot of land and lots of steel. This is assuming you will practice a lot. One thing I'd like to add, do not forget to dry fire a lot and pay attention to how your body responds/reacts as the trigger breaks. If you want, it may even help to leave your smart phone leaned up again some thing while recording so you could dry fire and then see yourself. You'll be able to identify any bad shooting habits that could possibly develop.

 

[littlepod]

If you got the money to spend - https://www.autotrickler.com/shotmarker.html is also great if you're by yourself. Put it on a 3foot by 3 wood frame. We have these at the local ranges, makes life easy.

 

[atepointer]

First, I'll give a little context in terms of my own experience. I'm an experienced hunter/shooter. In the past I spent way more time with my shotguns. Tons of shells shot between NSCA competitions and upland bird hunting. On the rifle side, it's the usual suspects - Deer, pigs, maybe a rabbit if I'm particularly bored. I wouldn't say Im a guaranteed MOA shooter. I've honestly just started collecting the data to know whether I'm a MOA shooter or not. Based on the data I've collected so far (about 60 5 shot groups), I range from .3 MOA to 1.7 MOA bench rest with a bipod. I imagine I can improve that a little bit once my rear bag comes in. I also intend to put more time in with my rifles in general. Like many I believed the only reasonable ranges for shooting were within 250 yds. And then.... I came across some precision rifle info that led me to this site. Which leads me to the real questions:

Now that I know that people are regularly shooting their rifles at much longer ranges with success, I want to stretch my own legs. I'm already working on the equipment piece (precision rifle, bags, etc.). So, we don't have to touch on that. I have access to enough space to easily setup a rifle range to shoot out to 1000+ yds. So, I've ordered a bunch of steel targets to lay out at various distances. Looking at 2020, what would be some reasonable goals?

For example, In my head I made the arbitrary goal that "I want to be able to consistently shoot a target at 1000 yds". However, I don't know how to frame that within reason. Meaning, should it be a 10" gong (~1 MOA)? Or is that completely ludicrous? My ultimate goal is to be a well rounded marksman. So, the answer may be that it is completely reasonable if you're prone, but good luck if you're kneeling. PRS competition might be a good framework as I work my way to various distances. If that is the case, maybe you guys have some ideas on that. Something along the lines of "just about every strong PRS competitor can hit a x MOA target at 300 yds while kneeling with barricade". Any information will be greatly appreciated.

I'm like you first year of making a concerted effort to reach out there. If you have anyone with experience in this discipline you can meet up with I'd highly recommend. I met up with a local Hider who has been a huge help for me it's crazy.....I didn't even know what I didn't know! From little things like a proper shooting bag(and how to use it correctly), how to begin the quest of wind/mirage learning and even changing things up to keep it fresh and challenging. Not sure where you are, but this is a big community you may have some local boys right at your fingertips. I'll finish up by saying a 'tutor' standing next to you really is different than reading about something and then trying to apply it.....at least it was for me. Gotta check the ego, admit to ourselves we don't know it all and be willing to adapt. Enjoy the journey, have fun and remember: the correct number of firearms to own is whatever you currently own PLUS ONE MORE!

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

For new shooters to PRS I tell them to focus on hit/shot ratio rather than total hits. If I get 10 rounds off but only hits 2 times its the same as building a good position, shooting twice and getting 2 hits. The difference is you are building the fundamentals to your positions and feeling what a GOOD position feels like rather than some luck and timing on your shot rushing through. Speed will come after that and you'll have a much better foundation to work off.

As far as your home range there is nothing wrong with big targets, in fact when learning its probably a bit better. You can always paint a 8" circle or 10" circle on a IPSC target and see if you can hold within it. The benefit to large targets is you will get feedback (easier) when you you dont get inside the circle and know by how much. It also helps with dope gathering to see if you are above or below the centerline and again by how much. It is beneficial to have a few smaller targets so if you do miss you can see what spash looks like (if you have a berm or any other type of environment to lend good feedback) and how to judge a good correction.

I see a lot of mention for % rates for first round hits but correcting for a missed shot is just as important. You will eventually get the wind call wrong or not dial correctly. Being able to see the impact, adjust for it and continue the stage with that correction getting hits is in my opinion just as if not more important.

Last piece of advice....DONT CHASE GEAR/CALIBERS. If you are building a rifle and its any of the 6mm or 6.5 flavors IT IS FINE. 308 and 223 are perfectly fine as well. Learn the caliber...same with gear, most things today can be shot with 1 bag (GC, Mini GC, Saracen, Comanche, Clede, etc.) and a 2nd bag as a dedicated rear isnt a bad idea. Use what you have, borrow some to test but dont jump around...

 

[308pirate]

I would add some club level NRA F class matches into the mix. Mid range F class (300 - 600 yards) will tell you a lot more about your ability to assume and maintain an effective prone position than anything you could ever learn with binary (hit/miss) targets like steel.

It will also teach you a serious fundamental base for wind reading and estimation.

IMO a mix of bullseye and practical shooting is essential to progress in rifle marksmanship.

 

[krimet]

If you got the money to spend - https://www.autotrickler.com/shotmarker.html is also great if you're by yourself. Put it on a 3foot by 3 wood frame. We have these at the local ranges, makes life easy.

Awesome! I never even knew that existed. I work in the tech industry so I love when I find something that mixes the tech in. May have to set aside something for that.

For new shooters to PRS I tell them to focus on hit/shot ratio rather than total hits. If I get 10 rounds off but only hits 2 times its the same as building a good position, shooting twice and getting 2 hits. The difference is you are building the fundamentals to your positions and feeling what a GOOD position feels like rather than some luck and timing on your shot rushing through. Speed will come after that and you'll have a much better foundation to work off.

As far as your home range there is nothing wrong with big targets, in fact when learning its probably a bit better. You can always paint a 8" circle or 10" circle on a IPSC target and see if you can hold within it. The benefit to large targets is you will get feedback (easier) when you you dont get inside the circle and know by how much. It also helps with dope gathering to see if you are above or below the centerline and again by how much. It is beneficial to have a few smaller targets so if you do miss you can see what spash looks like (if you have a berm or any other type of environment to lend good feedback) and how to judge a good correction.

I see a lot of mention for % rates for first round hits but correcting for a missed shot is just as important. You will eventually get the wind call wrong or not dial correctly. Being able to see the impact, adjust for it and continue the stage with that correction getting hits is in my opinion just as if not more important.

Last piece of advice....DONT CHASE GEAR/CALIBERS. If you are building a rifle and its any of the 6mm or 6.5 flavors IT IS FINE. 308 and 223 are perfectly fine as well. Learn the caliber...same with gear, most things today can be shot with 1 bag (GC, Mini GC, Saracen, Comanche, Clede, etc.) and a 2nd bag as a dedicated rear isnt a bad idea. Use what you have, borrow some to test but dont jump around...

That's a good tip. Better to let the time run out than practice poor shooting. I'll keep that in mind. Re: chasing gear - I'm trying to keep it simple at the moment. Going with a 6.5 Creedmoor first because of it's a good middle ground for barrel life and ballistics. I intend to put enough time in to shoot out that barrel this year. I picked up a Game Changer and a tab gear rear bag. Going to just roll with that until i get some more experience under my belt.

The funny part about gun/gear shopping, is that my rifles used to be second class citizens. I would scoff at high priced actions and ammo, but would have no problem dropping cash on a nice over/under. Luckily this has started to balance my firearms bias.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I feel the best steps to learn and progress at anything requiring skill/knowledge are:

- Get a solid foundation by taking a course. I started in long range by taking a fairly rudimentary course. It gave me the confidence to know I could get hits at 1000 yards and beyond, and it gave me the baseline skills I needed to work on.

- Find someone else of similar skill level and go shooting with them... a lot. My main shooting buddy and I go out once or twice a month and we're always bouncing ideas off each other - and having fun. We challenge each other, help with spotting, play around with new target setups, scout new shooting spots, etc.

- Like anything else, continuing education is important. Go to shooting matches and talk to shooters. Learn their equipment and techniques. Take more advanced training - I recently did two days with Sean Little down in Texas, and my group size dropped by a third. All we did was work on grip and trigger management (in 39 degree rain and 20 mph wind, no less).

As for realistic goals a year in, it totally depends on what you put into it in terms of time and training. When I take new long range shooters with me to a nearby private range, I have them ringing steel at 850 yards (the longest range there) consistently within 10-20 shots. Heck, I've got video of a friend of mine shooting fire-forming loads using 8x68S brass in my 300 PRC out at 1300 yards on his first time shooting past 300.

For targets, where will you be shooting? For me, I do most of my shooting in hilly terrain, so I have to get creative with my stands. I have a couple 20x12 gong silhouettes (though only one hill stand for them), a few 8" gongs, some 4" gongs, but recently I've figured out how to do a hillside 7" popper with a slide-on 2x4 mount for relatively cheap. I really have fun with these.

Link to the popper: https://www.rmpstore.com/RMP-Spring-Load-Rifle-Target--AR500-Steel_p_12.html

I'll be doing a video on how to put this together, it's pretty easy. The whole thing with 2x4 stake and everything is as low as about $140, excluding shipping and tax.

 

[krimet]

That’s a cool little popper. I like that. Terrain wise I have a decent amount of flexibility. There are some large flat areas, ravines and very large hills (I intend to use them as natural backstop). I bought enough T post hangers for all of the targets that I have purchases so far. My thoughts are that I can pretty much drive a set of T posts down wherever I need a target.

 

[Rocketmandb]

That’s a cool little popper. I like that. Terrain wise I have a decent amount of flexibility. There are some large flat areas, ravines and very large hills (I intend to use them as natural backstop). I bought enough T post hangers for all of the targets that I have purchases so far. My thoughts are that I can pretty much drive a set of T posts down wherever I need a target.

I love reactive targets. I also just bought a silhouette with two reactive plates in it. I just haven't figured out how to stand it up yet. T-posts tend to work pretty well for a lot of targets, depending on the ground. A lot of places I shoot are really rocky, and they don't work there. That's where the 2x4 stake bases work. I can usually get them in a few inches then stack rocks around them to steady. The 2x4s don't work well in soft/wet ground. They like to give way after impacts - even with the springs on the poppers taking a bunch of the force/ If I don't have some rocks or a sand bag to back them up, they'll eventually fall backward. It does take quite a few hits, though.

 

[C.R. Adams]

IMo, that is not a useful goal that will neither improve nor measure a person's growth as a marksman. E ach attempt is a pass/fail. Nothing is measuring progress. For me, my goals are much smaller. A few examples would be ability to effectively and efficiently operate the bolt. trigger follow through, Number of hits out of attempts for a particular position regardless distance, measurements could be a rolling 3 or 4 meet average. Marksmanship will be an ongoing event, each day/week working with the previous. And then the foundation for the next month and months adding to years.