Sidearms & Scatterguns Red Dots - Looking for some advice

[Franko]

I need to switch from iron sights to red dots on my handguns due to getting older and my vision deteriorating. I have two guns I need red dots for:

Glock G45
1. Nightstand gun just in case something goes bump in the night
2. Range use
3. Open carry sidearm in the unlikely event a zombie apocalypse breaks out

Glock G20SF
1. Open carry sidearm for when I am in the great outdoors fishing, hiking, or hunting

I am currently considering:

1. Trijicon RMR
2. Holosun 508T
3. Holosun 509T

Note: I will also be using co-witnessed suppressor height sights

I am currently leaning towards the 508T. I am looking for advice on this decision from people who use red dots a lot and use them hard under tough conditions.

Thank you.

 

[skl1]

I've only been using red-dots the last 2 years. I've used them at shooting schools and in competitions, so moderately hard conditions.

I tried several before buying. The RMR's have the best reputation for toughness. I wanted the wider view and clearer glass that I saw in deltapoint pro, Sig RomeoPro1, and Holosun's. I liked the idea of the solar panel backup on the Holosun. Also, price was a factor. Since I'm shooting (poorly) in competition, I want the bigger window and so I use 507c's vs 508/509T models. The 508/509 should be tougher, but the 507c's haven't had any issue. One has seen around 3K rounds. Also, had to use the sight body against a barricade for single-hand racking the slide. Holding up well. No change in POI.

I also liked the small dot, and the wide 35MOA circle. Dot is small enough not to obscure too much of the target. Circle is big enough to find easily/quickly as you're practicing drawing and finding your new sight plane, typically a little off from where the irons lined up.

RMR will also be bulletproof. But I think the glass clarity and difficulty of changing batteries (you have to remove sight from gun to access battery) are downsides.

 

[Sogan]

You will more than likely struggle a little to find the red dot initially. This is something that a lot of new shooters struggle with and don’t get discoursged. You’ve shot irons for years and years to learn them so give yourself some time to learn a dot.

Couple options:
-Trijicon SRO will give you a much larger window than an RMR or Holosun
to help with you losing your dot on presentation or during recoil.



-Holosun 507c with the ACSS reticle. It’s basically a chevron with a massive ring around the reticle that on a normal presentation you cannot see BUT if you are misaligned at all, it will help you know where the reticle is and help bring you back to center.



I think those are the best two optics for new shooters to red dots but any will work with training

 

[bllistc]

Check out sage dynamics on YouTube. He does a lot of good red dot reviews. Holosun 407/507 are a good choice. Been running one on mine for the past couple years. The 507 has multiple reticles and is available with the ACSS reticle. The vortex venom and viper series are also good in my experience. They look a little less durable as the frame is thinner but I’ve dropped mine plenty and used it to rack the slide. Still working perfectly. Leupold delta point is also another good option. Has a larger window and also plenty tough. Stay away from the doctor optics or any other polymer bodied ones.

 

[Animal357]

They work great when you have a consistent draw stroke from a standard position. When you are unable to do a standard draw or have to shoot from an odd position such as cover/concealment, you will have trouble finding the dot. I tried it and went back to standard sights. Just learn to shoot with a fuzzy sight picture and you will be better off.

Plus, red dots fog with temperature changes, can crack if banged or dropped, run out of batteries, become obstructed by rain and snow, etc.

 

[Delicatessen]

I have had a few including the rmr/similar holosun ones. I would recommend the acro, it seems much more natural to acquire the dot quickly and I have been using for a few years without issue (mine has the small battery but it’s not a huge deal and they now have the 2032 size ones). Haven’t tried the holosun similar one but at the time they were almost the same price and I trust aim point more even though holosun is a good red dot.

I have played with the sros and they seem similar in speed to acquire for me/tracking ability on recoil but not as robust as the acro.

 

[shoobe01]

See if you can look through a few first. Not all look the same, especially to our old bad eyes. There are a LOT of them. While RMR Type 2 is the duty gun go-to, lots of people have Holosuns and they are... fine. I use Jpoint but everyone thinks I am crazy. Aimpoint ACRO may be among the nicest things there are, but it shows with the cost. And... many more.

Sure, worth time to retrain shooting through RDS, but not because they are harder to align. I find the small RDS window size — which bugs many — to be actually a GREAT thing. It isn't "hard to find" so much as "exposes your crappy draw stroke." If you can't see a red dot, you only think you are aligned to the irons. Try again. At practice, I literally put it away, try again to get better over time.

I feel it's made my shooting better not just because I can see the dot-at-infinity with my bad eyes, but also doesn't let me get away with any screw ups at all. No wild shots anymore.

Other notes:

• Don't worry about where battery is. They mostly only need annual changes and even if you need to remove the sight, putting it back stays zeroed, 100% of the time in my experience or from those I trust who have shared. Check, but it won't be a problem.
• Think hard about irons. Most of them need suppressor height sights to have them visible through the window, but the dots are pretty reliable, and if it fails, out to at least 10 yds you can hit okay with just the window. Tall sights can make holsters hard to find, for example, so ponder the consequences either way.
• Get wipes, brushes, maybe canned air. They'll get dusty. Not a big deal, but get used to it.
• You can try it out, cheap and reversible. I did this cheap eBay rear sight dovetail mount and a pawn shop $20 Millet RDS for 6 months to see if I liked it
• 
• Custom cuts are neat. But lots of guns coming from the factory with RDS cuts. I might get new slides or new guns for most of yours, vs getting them all cut. Easier, you have the gun, you have spare guns/parts. I did a new gun for my M&P, but swapped so I have my well-worn-in frame and trigger bits, just a new slide effectively and a spare iron-sighted half-new backup.

FWIW, what a custom cut looks like:

And... how some some custom cuts can cowitness to normal height irons!

My suppressor height sight gun. I did loose the dot at an IDPA day once (I knew it was dying, wanted to see how it went at a range day) and... the transition wasn't so smooth either.

 

[308pirate]

They work great when you have a consistent draw stroke from a standard position. When you are unable to do a standard draw or have to shoot from an odd position such as cover/concealment, you will have trouble finding the dot.

LOL

No

 

[Animal357]

LOL

No

LOL

YES

 

[502Chevelle]

Only if you don’t practice.

 

[Franko]

Thanks to everyone for the help. I am going to go with the Trijicon.

 

[308pirate]

LOL

YES

That's because you don't do anything to get better.

How come those of us who compete in USPSA carry optics don't have any problem finding and keeping the dot when drawing while in a lean around a barrier, or squatting, or any other number of awkward positions that we have to shoot from?

You can accept mediocrity but don't tell everyone else your standard is as high as they can go.

 

[Clayman]

They work great when you have a consistent draw stroke from a standard position. When you are unable to do a standard draw or have to shoot from an odd position such as cover/concealment, you will have trouble finding the dot. I tried it and went back to standard sights. Just learn to shoot with a fuzzy sight picture and you will be better off.

Plus, red dots fog with temperature changes, can crack if banged or dropped, run out of batteries, become obstructed by rain and snow, etc.

Lol no.

 

[308pirate]

Plus, red dots fog with temperature changes,

Cat Crap

can crack if banged or dropped,

Don't buy hobby grade shit for serious use

run out of batteries,

Only if you're an idiot and don't change them once ever year or two. Trijicon RMR's battery life is anywhere from 3 to 5 years depending on how it's used.

become obstructed by rain and snow, etc.

LOL

 

[Animal357]

That's because you don't do anything to get better.

How come those of us who compete in USPSA carry optics don't have any problem finding and keeping the dot when drawing while in a lean around a barrier, or squatting, or any other number of awkward positions that we have to shoot from?

You can accept mediocrity but don't tell everyone else your standard is as high as they can go.

Sad that you think that USPSA has anything to do with real life defensive shooting. That's all that I need to know about you.

 

[shoobe01]

I have had irons covered in snow or ice as much as I have had an RDS not usable due to dirt, precipitation, etc.

And over time, improving it with coatings, with protruding covers on some of mine, etc.

Never seen one that wasn't a $30 chicom knockoff crack.

As said: change the batteries. Your car is worse than walking because you have to put /gas/ in it?

 

[pmclaine]

Thanks to everyone for the help. I am going to go with the Trijicon.

I bought mine from BH Photo because they had the best price for what I wanted but the amazing thing was having it in my hands less than 24 hours from ordering it.

 

[Clayman]

Sad that you think that USPSA has anything to do with real life defensive shooting. That's all that I need to know about you.

You realize you are shooting behind all kinds of barricades and obstacles with strange/awkward positions in comps? With emphasis on speed and accuracy. What possible "real life defensive" positions would you face that differs from competition scenarios or where a dot would be harder to find than irons.

Hell at ranges under 10 yards most proficient shooters could remove their sights completely and not have an issue getting a zone hits.

 

[Gustav7]

They work great when you have a consistent draw stroke from a standard position. When you are unable to do a standard draw or have to shoot from an odd position such as cover/concealment, you will have trouble finding the dot. I tried it and went back to standard sights. Just learn to shoot with a fuzzy sight picture and you will be better off.

Plus, red dots fog with temperature changes, can crack if banged or dropped, run out of batteries, become obstructed by rain and snow, etc.

Sad that you think that USPSA has anything to do with real life defensive shooting. That's all that I need to know about you.

Dude...You're just flat out wrong. Stop repeating ridiculous internet gun lore.

I've only shot 3 matches in USPSA and I already know your statement just doesn't hold up.

 

[308pirate]

Sad that you think that USPSA has anything to do with real life defensive shooting. That's all that I need to know about you.

I'm your huckleberry.

 

[Milf Dots]

Thanks to everyone for the help. I am going to go with the Trijicon.

Franko, How'd you make out with that Trijicon? Btw, great choice- the gold standard for open emitter duty pistol optics, and they're not a CC P company like Holoson.

 

[RayDBonz]

Trijicon or Aimpoint for me.
I don't do Chyna crap.

 

[Milf Dots]

Trijicon or Aimpoint for me.
I don't do Chyna crap.

Yep, Chyna has played a major role over the last fifty years undermining our Republic with their leftist propaganda.

 

[Franko]

Franko, How'd you make out with that Trijicon? Btw, great choice- the gold standard for open emitter duty pistol optics, and they're not a CC P company like Holoson.

I have the slides out being cut now. However, due to all the Covid weirdness impacting the supply chain I don't expect to be able to shoot for 3 or 4 months. Very much looking forward to using a red dot for the first time.

 

[Enbloc]

holosun are great, but the money you give them gets funneled back into the Chinese govt/military
the RMR isn't the biggest view or clearest glass, but its practically indestructible and will always turn on when you need it.

Shooting in competition I have cracked a DPP, but the crack didn't make any difference and I finished the stage like nothing was wrong, a cracked or dirty lens isn't as big a deal as many seem to think. I see the plastic Glock iron sights break more often than I see quality red dots break. I've also seen metal front sights snap, as well as one time I saw a small pebble get stuck inn the opening of the rear sight on a CZ, that pebble blocked any sight picture whatsoever.

anything can break or get obstructed or simply go wrong, but buying quality gear and training with it goes a long way

 

[0311@LAR]

Red dots are like turning a cheat code on. They’re awesome on a pistol. Once you figure out you need to be target focused and just hang the dot…it all comes together. And is so much quicker than focusing on iron sights. I wish I had the scratch to put a dot on every pistol I own.

Currently using holosun and have had good luck so far, but plan on bumping up to an RMR because they seem to be ACOG like bombproof.

 

[308pirate]

Red dots are like turning a cheat code on. They’re awesome on a pistol. Once you figure out you need to be target focused and just hang the dot…it all comes together. And is so much quicker than focusing on iron sights.

I just LOL at all the fools who say that irons are faster than dots up close.

Even if you shoot irons with target focus, the dot is still faster because it allows you to see what you need to see both sooner AND more precisely.

The real cheat code is how well and how quickly you can call your shots with a dot compared to irons.