Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen this?

[Winchester 69]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt these are new thoughts to most of you. </div></div>
Actually, the notions that a longer, straight-sided expander button might better straighten a case neck and that a floated expander button might follow a case deviation rather then correct it, when coupled with different case neck preparations (none, turned, turned thin) leaves a lot of room for experimentation. I had never really considered button shape and had assumed that floating would be superior to fixed under any circumstance. Gives a guy a lot to think about.

Thanks for the expansion. My thoughts previously had been limited to a floated sizer button operating on a slightly smaller neck possibly providing the best of all worlds. I guess it may for one world, but not for all worlds. More to consider.

 

[JLM]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

Hrm, so here was the experiment.

I decided to resize a batch of Lapua using the expander ball in my bushing Die.

I really didn't notice different results on the targets, nor differences in runout on seated boolits. If anything the RO was 'slightly' more than sans expander.

I'm wondering out loud, but if you have work hardened necks that probably could stand to be annealed, is the ball really going to push and inconsistencies to the outside of the neck? Hrmmm....

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm wondering out loud, but if you have work hardened necks that probably could stand to be annealed, is the ball really going to push any inconsistencies to the outside of the neck?</div></div>
So, how many ghosts CAN dance on the head of the pin?

 

[Winchester 69]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, the notions that a longer, straight-sided expander button might better straighten a case neck and that a floated expander button might follow a case deviation rather then correct it, when coupled with different case neck preparations (none, turned, turned thin) leaves a lot of room for experimentation. I had never really considered button shape and had assumed that floating would be superior to fixed under any circumstance. </div></div>
Rafael,
Here's some further discussion along these lines. Thought you might find it interesting.

http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3690336&trail=8

 

[Rafael]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

Cool.
They seem to like either no expander or the ball.
I will have to try a ball one of these days, but my standard expander works very well for me.

 

[918v]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

1.

Even a slight .001" neck tension on the bullet creates tremendous drag on an <span style="text-decoration: underline">unlubed</span> expander ball, carbide or steel.

2.

Case necks vary in thickness and hardness from one case to the next. Within the same box of ammo you will find cases that go through the sizing die like a hot knife through butter and others that hang-up.

3.

I now use a Lee collet neck sizing die. No expander ball. No bushing. No problem. It don't matter if the necks are .010" or .015" thick.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 918v</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1.

Even a slight .001" neck tension on the bullet creates tremendous drag on an <span style="text-decoration: underline">unlubed</span> expander ball, carbide or steel.

</div></div>

I basically removed the expander ball from my .308 dies as the case necks are rarely out of round and have no issues so far. But for my .223 loads from an AR, a lot of my case mouths are dented and I will definitely need to use the expander ball.

So how do most people lube the inside the case mouths (spray on lube inside the mouths or what?). And just as importantly - how do you remove the lube before dumping powder? Is the norm to retumble the brass after sizing/decapping?

 

[918v]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

You can lube the inside of the case with imperial sizing wax on a q-tip.

You can tumble again, or use brake cleaner on a q-tip.

Some people don't remove the lube.

I remove dents with needle nose pliers (by opening the pliers inside the neck)

 

[Falar]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

Reaper, how much smaller was your bushing than your loaded neck diameter?

I use a Redding "S" Bushing Neck die for my bolt gun, and SB FL "S" Bushing die for my gas gun. I read an article by David Tubb saying that if you want .003" tension (for coated bullets, and also in my case gas gun loads that aren't being crimped) to select a bushing .004" smaller to account for springback. I'm currently using .328" bushings because with Winchester brass loaded necks are .332". However, if I measure a neck after it comes out of my dies I get .330", not .329" like I'd expect. I'm thinking about trying .327" bushings next but don't want to experience case stretch. There is a bit of drag on the way out with the carbide expander ball and .328" bushings but I'm not stretching the necks any measureable amount.

 

[308sako]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen this?

.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reaper, how much smaller was your bushing than your loaded neck diameter?

I use a Redding "S" Bushing Neck die for my bolt gun, and SB FL "S" Bushing die for my gas gun. I read an article by David Tubb saying that if you want .003" tension (for coated bullets, and also in my case gas gun loads that aren't being crimped) to select a bushing .004" smaller to account for springback. I'm currently using .328" bushings because with Winchester brass loaded necks are .332". However, if I measure a neck after it comes out of my dies I get .330", not .329" like I'd expect. I'm thinking about trying .327" bushings next but don't want to experience case stretch. There is a bit of drag on the way out with the carbide expander ball and .328" bushings but I'm not stretching the necks any measureable amount. </div></div>

I was going .002 under the loaded neck diameter. On the FC brass that I had the problem with using the expander ball... I was using a .336 bushing.

Also, I cannot imagine going that small on your WIN brass. I measured my loaded factory WIN brass at about .334-.335, so I use a .332 bushing for them and they worked fine. .329 or under seems WAY too small to me.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen this?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomekeuro85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So lets say I have the FL S type busing die. I can take off the expander ball and the rounds will size fine at the proper neck diameter? </div></div>


Yes they will if your bushing is not oversizing the necks. </div></div>

Ditto, that's what I do now as well. The neck sizer will even round out the necks nicely if they have any small dents - even without the expander ball.

 

[JLM]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cool.
They seem to like either no expander or the ball.
I will have to try a ball one of these days, but my standard expander works very well for me. </div></div>

Any difference in concentricity of the sized necks?

 

[PLeighton]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

It is pretty amazing actually, using the bushing alone makes all but severely distorted case necks concentric again.
I had my doubts until I saw it myself.

I added the carbide ball to my setup due to a comment that Doc76251 made.
He feels that bushing dies push whatever flaws that are in the outside of the neck to the inside.
(Even know you can't see them.)
Since I know Doc personally and value his opinion I choose to add the carbide ball to my setup in order to eliminate this possibility.

It is also worth mentioning that on several forums and several magazine write-ups, results have been reported of the Redding setup actually correcting runout issues due to the "floating" nature of their design.
YMMV

 

[bdh308]

Re: Redding Neck sizer die issue - anyone seen thi

I just use the smaller provided ball that Redding gave me in my Neck sizer set. I felt like I had to hammer the ram down when using the larger ball which cant be good.