Reduced loads for barrel life

[lte82]

I started playing with quickload and that excel based barrel life calculator and figured out I could extend the life of my barrel quite a bit. In my 6x47, 35gr varget / 105 hybrid gives me around 1800 rounds of predicted barrel life at 3000 fps, and 33gr AR Comp gives me 2800 rounds of barrel life at 2970 fps. If I reduce the charge of AR Comp to give 2650 fps, the drop in charge weight and pressure gets me to around 6500 rounds of predicted barrel life!

So this morning I ran a test and the reduced loads works seemingly fine. Also the full power AR Comp load was spot on with quickload and had zero pressure issues. It also had significantly less recoil than varget. Think typical 6br / varget recoil.

Has anyone else done something like this to extend barrel life on their training barrels?

 

[Dstoenner]

Yes i use a discontinued powder IMR 4759 with light bullets. 20 gn with 55 Sierra BK for my 6x47 L. This is for 100 yard practice. They shot to the same poa as my full power loads within a couple of clicks. Really lets you focus on consistent postion for f-class

I figure they are almost free for barrel wear. But for my records i record them as .5 rounds. Based on what you are saying they must be .2 rounds. But i am happy

David

 

[Sheldon N]

I played around with reduced loads in a Dasher barrel, 28gr of XBR with a 105BTHP, around 2800 fps. Shot great and I burned through maybe 1000 rounds of it. Not sure that it extended my barrel life much, I still saw a drop off in velocity around 2000 rounds and pulled the barrel from comp use.

I have done a bit of practice lately using pulled match barrels that still shoot half decent. At that point the barrel life is "free" so I don't feel as bad about burning rounds through it.

I don't think I'd switch all my practice to match caliber though. The cost of projectiles plus brass wear still makes it a lot more expensive than 223, even if you ignore barrel life.

 

[lte82]

Man I was hoping that a 35k psi load with a cool(er) powder would give me extra barrel life. Sounds like it might not be as effective as I hoped. I may still give it a try just to see what happens.

The main reason I was hoping it would work is to not have to load multiple calibers. Set up the 650 and Giraud trimmer for 6x47 and crank out ammo fast. Time has been limited lately so I opted for a 6.5 creedmoor to shoot factory ammo and have decent barrel life for training. But if I could get the same life or better with the same cartridge and run 100 rounds in under 20 mins, that sounds even better.

 

[Mike Casselton]

For that velocity, wouldn't it just be cheaper to shoot the 6 Grendel or a BR case?
Or even a 6-223?

 

[lte82]

For that velocity, wouldn't it just be cheaper to shoot the 6 Grendel or a BR case?
Or even a 6-223?

Yea it would, but the idea wasnt just to reduce cost per shot, but also simplify loading and time on the reloading bench. Not swapping tool heads or dies, tuning the Giraud trimmer, keeping up with multiple cases, etc is appealing. If there was a way to triple / quadruple barrel life by just using a cooler powder and loading light I would be willing to spend a little time loading. If not, I'll just stick with buying factory 6.5 creed in bulk for practice...

 

[Sheldon N]

My vote would be add a Dillon 1050 and leave it set up for 223.

I've got mine set up so that I can switch between brass prep or loading by just screwing in or removing two dies with lock rings, no need to change the toolhead. Takes about 35-40 minutes to size/process 1000 pieces of brass. Then I load them when needed, maybe 20 minutes to load a bucket of 300 rounds.

 

[lte82]

My vote would be add a Dillon 1050 and leave it set up for 223.

I've got mine set up so that I can switch between brass prep or loading by just screwing in or removing two dies with lock rings, no need to change the toolhead. Takes about 35-40 minutes to size/process 1000 pieces of brass. Then I load them when needed, maybe 20 minutes to load a bucket of 300 rounds.

A couple of years ago I had two automated 1050s with primer tube fillers, bullet feeders, etc and two 650s for lower volume stuff. It was too much. I'll have to find pics of the setup, I had to build a shop to house it all. I still have like 20k+ primed new 308 brass haha. I could load it so fast...

I have 14k primed wolf 223 brass, just waiting on my rifle to be finished up. It's simple enough to load, and I throw the brass away. I'm sure it will get plenty of use.

 

[Dstoenner]

To add to my previous post on this.

There is also another way to reduce loads using H4895. If a H4895 load is specified by Hodgdon for a give caliber and bullet then you can go as low as 60% of the max load specified and still be safe. I use that rule for my 308 Garand. My load is 36gn H4895 with a 125 SMK. The bolt cycles so low you can watch it all happen out of the corner of your eye but at 100 yards it is really fun to shoot. I tried that on my 30-06 Garand and it wouldn't cycle the bolt but 49 gn H4895 with the same 125 SMK is easy also.

Both of these Garands have modern barrels on them so I am not trying to save the barrel like I am with my 1903A3 so for it I go back to the IMR 4759. Also saves my shoulders as I have had 3 shoulder injuries.

More food for thought.

David

 

[lte82]

To add to my previous post on this.

There is also another way to reduce loads using H4895. If a H4895 load is specified by Hodgdon for a give caliber and bullet then you can go as low as 60% of the max load specified and still be safe. I use that rule for my 308 Garand. My load is 36gn H4895 with a 125 SMK. The bolt cycles so low you can watch it all happen out of the corner of your eye but at 100 yards it is really fun to shoot. I tried that on my 30-06 Garand and it wouldn't cycle the bolt but 49 gn H4895 with the same 125 SMK is easy also.

Both of these Garands have modern barrels on them so I am not trying to save the barrel like I am with my 1903A3 so for it I go back to the IMR 4759. Also saves my shoulders as I have had 3 shoulder injuries.

More food for thought.

David

I read about h4895 as well. I think as you go to less pressure you also have to start using faster powder, otherwise you can start getting a secondary pressure spike that can be very very high. I read that it's the slowest powder they found that didn't have this issue.

 

[Sheldon N]

A couple of years ago I had two automated 1050s with primer tube fillers, bullet feeders, etc and two 650s for lower volume stuff. It was too much. I'll have to find pics of the setup, I had to build a shop to house it all. I still have like 20k+ primed new 308 brass haha. I could load it so fast...

I have 14k primed wolf 223 brass, just waiting on my rifle to be finished up. It's simple enough to load, and I throw the brass away. I'm sure it will get plenty of use.

Well heck, you're ready to rock and roll then!

For me going to the range is the most time consuming part.

 

[Dstoenner]

I read about h4895 as well. I think as you go to less pressure you also have to start using faster powder, otherwise you can start getting a secondary pressure spike that can be very very high. I read that it's the slowest powder they found that didn't have this issue.

Actually Hodgdon has a short paper on their website stating what I said. They are saying that as long as you stay north of 60% you will not have an issue of detonation. I am sure that the lawyers reviewed that and 60% has some guardband margin built into it. I just haven't seen the need to go lower than 60%. In fact when I tried it on my 308 Garand it wouldn't cycle so I kept increasing the load till the Garand was happy which is still really light recoil compared to a full load.

David

 

[Dstoenner]

I don't think I'd switch all my practice to match caliber though. The cost of projectiles plus brass wear still makes it a lot more expensive than 223, even if you ignore barrel life.

What I do for practice ammo is I have lower cost brass that I use. For my 1000 yard loads, Lapua brass is my staple and I have 2 sets I use for my matches. But for practice at 100 yards you don't need Lapua brass. In the case of my 260 Rem I used Remington brass till it wore out and then I got Hornady. Now for my 6x47 Lapua practice brass, I made it out of 6.5 Creedmoor that I was picking up at the range for free. It takes quite a few operation and it has some fallout but I will have a group of 200 or so I will use for little cost except for my time to do all of the operations to get to the case. Since I am now retired, it keeps me off the streets

David

 

[lte82]

Top row is full power, bottom row two reduced loads. The weird thing was it seemed like the reduced load rounds were hang firing or something, hard to explain but it recoiled weird for sure. 27gr grouped well under 1/2 moa in the 10-12 mph wind tho. I might try going up a couple of grains and see what happens.

 

[nfoley]

I have been fire forming 6 dasher - shooting 28.5g Varget with 115 DTACs jammed 0.040" and they are right at 2680-2690fps. They are accurate enough that I have thought about running a barrel at the lower velocities just to see how many rounds I could get through one.

 

[LRDD]

Fuck those barrels,let them burn. Never understood having a hotrod caliber and running it like a Pinto.

 

[PAYDIRT]

223 light load thrown BLC-2 and a 75 bthp. 223 is really the answer for cheap practice.

 

[steve123]

When you guys practice are you just shooting off obstacles out to 3 - 4 hundred yards?

 

[PAYDIRT]

When you guys practice are you just shooting off obstacles out to 3 - 4 hundred yards?

That's basically what I do, I have a bunch of different "obstacles" that I practice from. My backdoor range goes to 555, and has targets in 3 different directions, so the wind is different for each. The 223 is plenty good for that.

 

[Sheldon N]

When you guys practice are you just shooting off obstacles out to 3 - 4 hundred yards?

I do a ton of practice at 200 yards, single target from a folding ladder. Just working at building position and transitions and shooting a 1 MOA target. I also will do midrange 300-600 yard stuff from more variety of obstacles, rock, tank trap, stumps. That's range is a bit farther drive for me though so I don't go as often.

 

[Dstoenner]

When you guys practice are you just shooting off obstacles out to 3 - 4 hundred yards?

For me, I am practicing F-Class in prone position. The only range I have access to as a member is 100 yards indoors.

David

 

[Dstoenner]

Top row is full power, bottom row two reduced loads. The weird thing was it seemed like the reduced load rounds were hang firing or something, hard to explain but it recoiled weird for sure. 27gr grouped well under 1/2 moa in the 10-12 mph wind tho. I might try going up a couple of grains and see what happens.

What was your full power load and what is your powder? I had tried Trailboss like about 8 or so years ago and it had that hangfire feeling also. It really required you to have good follow through or that shoot was screwed up. Then I tried IMR SR4759 and Accurate 5744. I got the best results with 4759 so I stuck with it. It gives more the same pull the trigger and instant bang compared to Trailboss.

David

 

[lte82]

What was your full power load and what is your powder? I had tried Trailboss like about 8 or so years ago and it had that hangfire feeling also. It really required you to have good follow through or that shoot was screwed up. Then I tried IMR SR4759 and Accurate 5744. I got the best results with 4759 so I stuck with it. It gives more the same pull the trigger and instant bang compared to Trailboss.

David

This one was 33gr & 33.5 gr AR Comp/ 105 hybrids. 2950 / 2980 fps respectively. I shot the 33gr load out to 1100 today and it worked great. Not anywhere close to r16 velocity wise, but accuracy at distance is excellent.

 

[steve123]

I do a ton of practice at 200 yards, single target from a folding ladder. Just working at building position and transitions and shooting a 1 MOA target. I also will do midrange 300-600 yard stuff from more variety of obstacles, rock, tank trap, stumps. That's range is a bit farther drive for me though so I don't go as often.

Wow, 2" ish at 200Y, that's a bit beyond my ability level off an obstacle!

 

[jd5521]

223 light load thrown BLC-2 and a 75 bthp. 223 is really the answer for cheap practice.

This^^^****. I have a 223 barrel I swap with my 6brx barrel for training. Throw 223 barrel on. Switch mags and bolt and go!

 

[Diver160651]

A bit off topic, but for wind training, I down loaded 140 Spear 6.5 with a bad .435 (ish) G1 and run them at only 2400 FPS. Best kart is they are $18 for 100!

Not sure how much barrel I save but they drift a lot more than my other going. 3050fps out of ny 6mm or 6.5

 

[THEIS]

Most 5.56 is loaded on the higher end of SAAMI specs (55k C.U.P.?), so going down to a lighter bullet (conceivably to get more velocity), burns even more powder than shooting a heavier bullet with less powder...but it's the heat and pressure that does the barrel in, so unless you're shooting those lighter bullets at the same or lower velocity than the heavier bullets you'll see no savings...and even then I'd say you're not gaining enough to make an appreciable difference.

Hi,

Isn't that convenient that you gave exact same advice as someone gave on another forum 9 years ago...down to the exact placement of the parenthesis.

Also ironic that you joined here October 2018...same time that at least 2 other members joined (that have been banned) that have pulled the same copy and paste shit that you are doing.

Sincerely,
Theis

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fa18hooker
Joined:Nov 7, 2007Messages:37

I'll throw my two cents in...no. Most 5.56 is loaded on the higher end of SAAMI specs (55k C.U.P.?), so going down to a lighter bullet (conceivably to get more velocity), burns even more powder than shooting a heavier bullet with less powder...but it's the heat and pressure that does the barrel in, so unless you're shooting those lighter bullets at the same or lower velocity than the heavier bullets you'll see no savings...and even then I'd say you're not gaining enough to make an appreciable difference.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Theiss
Is it against the rules to cut copy and paste here?
I was banned for two weeks but thought it was for defending a vendor of gun parts?

 

[spife7980]

Theiss
Is it against the rules to cut copy and paste here?
I was banned for two weeks but thought it was for defending a vendor of gun parts?

From what I gather you were banned for flaming LRI, no one gives a shit about anything to do with PTG.


And it is not against the rules to copy/paste or quote but it is against the rules to copy/paste others posts when you are just trying to get your post count/activity level up to open the door to spamming the part exchange.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Well if anyone needs a forum "rule" to keep them from potentially having "typically" second degree misdemeanor Plagiarism charges brought against them has lost all calibration of morale compass.

Per US Legal:
Intentional or unintentional use of another's words or ideas without acknowledging this use constitutes plagiarism: There are four common forms of plagiarism:

• The duplication of an author's words without quotation marks and accurate references or footnotes.
• The duplication of author's words or phrases with footnotes or accurate references, but without quotation marks.
• The use of an author's ideas in paraphrase without accurate references or footnotes.
• Submitting a paper in which exact words are merely rearranged even though footnoted.

Sincerely,
Theis

PS: I am pretty sure you were banned for the LRI and PTG shit thread.

 

[Lynn Jr]

I wasn't flaming anyone just posting the truth. But I don't advertise here so I will log out and let you guys have fun.

Theis
I doubt posting what you quoted violated any laws but then again I am no lawyer

 

[lte82]

So as an update, I do *not* recommend using AR Comp in the 6x47. I have noticed that even at high pressure loads, there is a slight hang fire type feel that I *think* is caused by low case fill that gets worse as you reduce the charge further. I'll stick to more speed and burning barrels out quick with Varget for now haha.