Reliable AR10 style that's reliable for "plinking"?

[teddy12b]

Somehow or another rifles like the Sig 716i, and Ruger SFAR are popping up in my emails and it got me thinking. Those are two examples, and I know there more comparable rifles out there. One thing though is that I just can't stand a rifle that doesn't run reliably. I know if I was going to max a rifle out for competition I'd be looking in the Seekins SP10 class of rifle, but for something that runs reliably and accurate enough to enjoy at the range or light enough to take hunting I'm just curious on what's out there. I could get talked into either a 308 or 6.5cm because I'm a fan of both. I don't know that I'd shoot a competition with the gas gun, so it doesn't need to be hair splitting accurate, but it's gotta shoot better than my M1A scout, lol.

Thanks,

 

[Rob01]

I was looking for something similar a few years back and just bought a PSA and it runs like a champ and is also fairly accurate for an AR. I think it cost me around $750 total. I am sure the Sig or Ruger would work out too.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I wouldn't touch the ruger. Every third post on here is someone trying to get an sfar to run. Aero makes a great rifle, reasonably priced.

 

[jljames81]

I would pick up an Armalite for 1200-1300 bucks at palmetto state armory.

 

[teddy12b]

I was looking for something similar a few years back and just bought a PSA and it runs like a champ and is also fairly accurate for an AR. I think it cost me around $750 total. I am sure the Sig or Ruger would work out too.

I got tempted by a PSA AR10 and mine never ran or cycled anything close to reliably. If you got one that works I'm very happy for you and I wanted the one I bought to have been my new favorite, but it just didn't play out that way for me. For what I'm looking for now I wouldn't put PSA on my list of choices although I have to admit their new sabre M110 clone ish rifles look very tempting.

 

[Rob01]

I understand as PSA can be a little hit or miss in reliability and why I almost didn’t mention it but mine has run great from day one so figured I would toss it in the mix. If I had a bad experience with them I wouldn’t put them on my list either.

 

[teddy12b]

I understand as PSA can be a little hit or miss in reliability and why I almost didn’t mention it but mine has run great from day one so figured I would toss it in the mix. If I had a bad experience with them I wouldn’t put them on my list either.

Don't get me wrong, I've assembled enough PSA kits at my kitchen table for myself and others that I'm sure there's a political party that would love to ban my kitchen table. I've seen more good than bad out pf PSA, but it's a gamble every time it's not their premium line.

 

[Redlion]

I have heard some pretty good things about the Springfield Armory Saint Victor. With that said, it goes for around $1,250-$1,300.

 

[teddy12b]

I went to Aero's website and every complete lower is out of stock. I'm not sure if there's another website where they sell their stuff, but I don't know where to find them.

I haven't heard anything bad about the Saint Victor, and I'd consider it.

 

[roostercogburn98]

What about the SFAR? No need to have a large frame to run 308 or 6.5. Comes in both off the shelf.

 

[teddy12b]

What about the SFAR? No need to have a large frame to run 308 or 6.5. Comes in both off the shelf.

I haven't seen a lot of glowing reviews for the SFAR as far as reliability goes. From what I've read and listened to so far I think the Sig 716 tread seems to be more reliable. That's also why I'm asking and asking here too. I'd like to tap into peoples first hand experience with any of these and hope to here about some experience.

 

[BCP]

Armalite or 716i

Most AR10 reliability comes from shooting decent ammo and keeping your rifle clean

 

[simonp]

My Sig has been reliable that being said it is so proprietary that I would never but it again or recommend it.

 

[stanley_white]

After the positive reviews here, I went with the 18” barrreled Armalite for a great price at PSA.

I hope to shoot it soon.

Fit and finish are great. Upper and lower don’t wiggle at all.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/armalite-308-win-7-62-semi-automatic-ar-10-rifle-ar10tac18.html

-Stan

 

[tna9001]

I had a Ruger SFAR, had to send it back twice. Eventually it worked but at best it was a 3 MOA gun. A friend of mine has one too that he bought around the same time and it runs great and shoots 1.5-2 MOA. That seems to be a common theme with Ruger.

 

[BCP]

My 716i is perfectly reliable it's definitely gassed for 150/155 grain ammunition though, the Armalite has a heavier profile barrel and an adjustable gas block so more accurate/tunable, that's about it for the reasonably priced AR10s, can't really recommend PSA or Aero/Stag although plenty of people buy them and are happy with them.

 

[tna9001]

What’s the latest with POF?

 

[GhostFace]

I would pick up an Armalite for 1200-1300 bucks at palmetto state armory.

Agreed, that’s the best deal going right now. You get a proven rifle that had solid R&D behind it, not something that was cloned from something that was another companies best guess….

 

[JS8588]

I'm going to be the jackass to say this. Plinking and maybe hunting? Bear Creek.

 

[Rob01]

Now I don’t feel bad for mentioning PSA. Lol

 

[tekmann2377]

I have 2 PSA PA-10's, one was a receiver set that I assembled with a Criterion barrel, other was a complete rifle. Both have been fine. They are an adequate platform for this.

The complete rifle has been exceptional, but this was from a first run of them that PSA did with premium parts (NiB BCG, MI 15" handguards, and a 18" rifle gas FN CHF barrel). I don't know how the rest of the new production cheaper versions are.

At this point for a complete rifle I would not hesitate to get one of the Armalites.

 

[JS8588]

Now I don’t feel bad for mentioning PSA. Lol

You weren't wrong. Completely g2g for OP's stated intent.

 

[Rob01]

You weren't wrong. Completely g2g for OP's stated intent.

Funny is I have a BCA .223 side charger also. Bought it cause it was cheap and looked interesting. Sucks they are a half hour down the road and I still have to pay all the shipping lol

 

[JS8588]

Funny is I have a BCA .223 side charger also. Bought it cause it was cheap and looked interesting. Sucks they are a half hour down the road and I still have to pay all the shipping lol

Yeah, I was actually thinking about their side charging CHF AR10 upper.

 

[sparky702]

I have a ruger sfar 308 20 " and apparently I am one of the lucky ones . it will shoot 150grain core-lokts minute of angle for 5 shot group's at 100 yds perfect for deer hunting . I don't like the gas block but it works running the gun suppressed or not . That being said I bought an armalite 6.5 creedmoor 22inch barrel at an exceptional price from PSA and have run it for 1 season shooting dmr matches . There is a world of difference between it and the sfar , much better and easier to adjust than the sfar and I run hornady 140 grain American gunner all through the season . I had no malfunctions of any kind and the rifle just hammered I seen a big improvement in my score's as we progressed through the season .

 

[Makinchips208]

Have seen at least 6 of the diamondback db10 in 308
All have been very reliable.
None have been super accurate.

For the price of the DB10 and then a barrel upgrade, I’d probably instead go with an armalite or ruger sfar.

 

[teddy12b]

Ok, so I kept looking at the Armalites and couldn't figure out why something didn't seem right to me about them. Then it dawned on me. Didn't they used to have some weird proprietary magazine? Now it looks like they're built to run off of magpul pmag pattern mags and that's great. I just couldn't help but think something was off or different every time I looked at them.

So, I think these are the options and rough prices of what's been talked about so far. Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding something about any of these rifles.

Sig 716i ~$1,300
Ruger SFAR ~ $1,000
Armalite ~ $1,400
PSA ~ $700 on up
Aero ~ $1,200 depending

As far as the Sig 716i goes it sounds like they run and shoot, but parts are proprietary. Not a big deal if you like it the way it is, big deal if you can't help yourself from swapping parts out. I think it's a feather in their hat that the Indian Army is using this as their main rifle.

Ruger SFAR sounds hit or miss on both accuracy and reliability. Sounds like swapping parts can be easier if that's a must.

Armalite sounds like they run and shoot well. It doesn't sounds like much is proprietary, and now that they run on pmags I'm more interested in them.

PSA seems like you can get about any configuration you'd want and results will vary.

Aero Precision sounds good but everything I look at on their website is mostly out of stock and I don't know of other retailer websites that sell their products. Seems like the most plug and play out of the options and buy your preferred lower and whatever uppers you'd want and you're good.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I'd probably go Aero if I were you. Friend had one, shot great.

A family member had a PSA PA-65 rifle. Didn't shoot great, had reliability problems. I took a look at it and noticed the barrel was pretty canted and not centered in the free float handguard at all (gas block was almost touching the inside of the handguard on the right side). They sent the upper back to PSA, and PSA fixed it. Shot reliability after that. Their updated premium line might be better.

 

[hafejd30]

Ok, so I kept looking at the Armalites and couldn't figure out why something didn't seem right to me about them. Then it dawned on me. Didn't they used to have some weird proprietary magazine? Now it looks like they're built to run off of magpul pmag pattern mags and that's great. I just couldn't help but think something was off or different every time I looked at them.

So, I think these are the options and rough prices of what's been talked about so far. Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding something about any of these rifles.

Sig 716i ~$1,300
Ruger SFAR ~ $1,000
Armalite ~ $1,400
PSA ~ $700 on up
Aero ~ $1,200 depending

As far as the Sig 716i goes it sounds like they run and shoot, but parts are proprietary. Not a big deal if you like it the way it is, big deal if you can't help yourself from swapping parts out. I think it's a feather in their hat that the Indian Army is using this as their main rifle.

Ruger SFAR sounds hit or miss on both accuracy and reliability. Sounds like swapping parts can be easier if that's a must.

Armalite sounds like they run and shoot well. It doesn't sounds like much is proprietary, and now that they run on pmags I'm more interested in them.

PSA seems like you can get about any configuration you'd want and results will vary.

Aero Precision sounds good but everything I look at on their website is mostly out of stock and I don't know of other retailer websites that sell their products. Seems like the most plug and play out of the options and buy your preferred lower and whatever uppers you'd want and you're good.

Of your list I’d go Armalite

Could watch for a used rock river LAR 8 as well. Mine used FN pattern mags but was a solid shooter

 

[BCP]

Like I said up above the armalite has a heavier profile barrel/adj gas block, also 2 stage trigger so no need to upgrade it. My 716i I immediately put in a diff trigger.

The armalite that interests me the most is the 14" 308 I'd want to take off the stupid tank brake they use and put a threaded flash hider though.

 

[teddy12b]

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea of being able to use the 308 pmags that I've already got and can easily get more. The pmag is a great mag and they're dirt cheap by comparison so I don't see why I'd hop into a specialized mag.

Something else I'm considering, is I'm looking for spare parts online. How hard is it to find an new extractor for brand XYZ? I had forgotten about the Daniel Defense 308's but I don't see their spare parts. Do any of these brands sell a "spare parts kit" like you can find for AR15's?

 

[sloporsche]

I'm going to be the jackass to say this. Plinking and maybe hunting? Bear Creek.

I got ya beat....I recommend something in 7.62x39 made in serbia ....it has an A in it but no r

 

[Ape_Factory]

What’s the latest with POF?

I have a pre-COVID POF that I just rebarreled through them as I was worried the headspace was too long for factory ammo. After figuring out my buffer situation (been experimenting with different weights) and installing a new Riflespeed gas block (I'm a modaholic), I finally have it running 100% reliable again like it was out of the box. As it originally came, it ate everything and was pretty damn accurate with hand loads which is all I do usually. New barrel, I used some PMC X-Tac for break-in and once I got it dialed in, it produced sub-MOA with that factory round. But the Revolution DI is priced a good bit more than the Sig or the Ruger. There's at least one company making drop-in barrels for them too if you want to switch calibers, go with a different length, etc. It's under 7 pounds naked. My 12.5" P415 piston in 5.56 is heavier, LOL.

 

[sloporsche]

a little DONK for plinking

 

[teddy12b]

So I'm still thinking about this and thankfully this discussion has really helped me define exactly what I'm looking for. Accuracy, Reliability, Weight, Run Suppressed, Run Scoped. Bonus things would be the ability to have both 308 & 6.5 options, and use PMAG pattern mags.

From everything I read online, and listen to youtube channels on my focus has moved to the Sig 716, Daniel Defense DD5, and Scar 17 NRCH. It sounds like the three of these rifles are all accurate, but the DD5 or Scar 17 would edge out the 716 by a little. Sounds like they're all as reliable as a person could hope for with everyone using proprietary parts. Where I think I lose the Scar is being able to run it suppressed and not have it eat up scopes. I think the DD5 or 716 would be the better fit for me, and I want to put my hands on either one before purchasing. I've checked every local store and none of them have either.

Thoughts?

 

[stanley_white]

I went with this, likely a best value, based on recommendations from this website, though I confess I haven’t gotten a chance to fire it yet:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/armalite-308-win-7-62-semi-automatic-ar-10-rifle-ar10tac18.html

-Stan

 

[simonp]

I would go for the DD over the Sig, I have a 716 and it runs but the level of proprietary parts and difficulties surrounding any changes would lead me away from that route again.

 

[sparky702]

I went with this, likely a best value, based on recommendations from this website, though I confess I haven’t gotten a chance to fire it yet:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/armalite-308-win-7-62-semi-automatic-ar-10-rifle-ar10tac18.html

-Stan

I can say I have no complaint with my armalite 6.5 creedmoor . I hope you have the same experience as I have had .

 

[LRRPF52]

If you are set on a large frame, ArmaLite is the company to beat for reliability, accuracy, durability of the small parts, and cost.

The cheap parts guns tend to have a lot of problems once you start shooting them, namely in bolt catch pin failures, and overall unreliability. The more you shoot them, the more bugs raise their heads.

If you can afford to plink with .308, then you can afford a good rifle that won’t crap the bed like many on the market do.

Ignore the list price fixed costs and focus on reputation from guys who have been shooting AR-10s for decades and learned the hard way so you don’t have to.

Also budget-in optics, which will likely be more than the rifle if you want quality variable power that won’t break. NF and Vortex Razor line are great easy buttons for durability and quality with great reticle options.

I’ve been shooting, trouble-shooting, repairing, and competing with AR-10s since about 2002. I went back to small frame though in AR-15/Grendel, so I don’t shoot my large frame guns much anymore.

If you can’t afford .308 ammo, I would ditch the interest in AR-10s because it will basically be a safe queen. For plinking, your best option is 7.62x51 147gr Swiss right now as far as cost/quality go. AmmoSeek is your friend.

 

[EotS]

I miss DPMS of the mid 2000s.

 

[teddy12b]

The things that concern me about armalite is the changes in ownership. I get it's an old name like Springfield, but just like Springfield it's not the original. Maybe that's good, bad, or meaningless but it's something. I do like how Armalite changed their mag system when they came back though. I've just read too many bad reports on reliability for Ruger, PSA, or Aero.

When I say plink what that means to me is the occasional defensive rifle class, maybe take it hunting, and definitely plink at the range at distance to see what it'll do.

 

[Old Corps 8541]

"plink at distance" & "defensive rifle class" They don't necessary fit into the same rifle. At what distance and at what size targets.
Shooting any AR at distance , I'll say 300 yds and longer requires as much from the shooter as it does the weapon.
Things may have changed but in the past there were 3 different patterns of large frame AR's, RRA, Armalite, and DPMS .
All required different parts including magazines
I say this just in case you think at some point in time you want to change barrels, ect.
Just do a little internet searching for large frame AR bbl's and you should find the stores selling barrels ONLY carry one pattern that fits only one frame. That's not to say any good gunsmith can't build you what you want.
Armalite AR10-T with new Shilen 26" tube.

 

[GhostFace]

The things that concern me about armalite is the changes in ownership. I get it's an old name like Springfield, but just like Springfield it's not the original. Maybe that's good, bad, or meaningless but it's something. I do like how Armalite changed their mag system when they came back though. I've just read too many bad reports on reliability for Ruger, PSA, or Aero.

When I say plink what that means to me is the occasional defensive rifle class, maybe take it hunting, and definitely plink at the range at distance to see what it'll do.

Very, very few American companies are under the original ownership and I’m not just talking about firearms. Colt, S&W, SA etc….. So if that concerns you to the point of not buying something then you’ll be living in a cave wearing clothes out of animal skin.

Here’s the thing, Armalite already put in the work to make an accurate, reliable and durable system years ago. That fact doesn’t change regardless of ownership of the company. What ownership of the company does change is how they do business. How is it to buy parts? How is customer service?

With the new company I think we have our answer. You can’t buy parts direct from them as you used to be able to do but they link where you can get them. Who cares where you get parts from just as long as you can get them. Customer service I haven’t seen anything to suggest that it is bad but I haven’t read anything to support it’s like when Westrom owned the company.

ETA I don’t really care for SAC, Armalite has a different feel to it from when Westrom owned it. I have enough parts to last me a life time and then some. I have yet to break a part since owning them for the past 25 years. I shoot suppressed, one has a binary trigger that gets used sometimes. I’ve burned out 2 barrels shooting precision, not doing mag dumps. That’s about 16,000 rounds…..

 

[Hound Dog]

Ok, so I kept looking at the Armalites and couldn't figure out why something didn't seem right to me about them. Then it dawned on me. Didn't they used to have some weird proprietary magazine? Now it looks like they're built to run off of magpul pmag pattern mags and that's great. I just couldn't help but think something was off or different every time I looked at them.

Armalite makes 2 variations of the AR10, the 10A, which is the more common and takes the magpull style mags. Then the 10B which is less common now, but takes a modified M14 style mag. The 10B was for the most part the original AR10 from decades ago. Armalite got the the times and changed the lower to use the magpull style mags. They both shoot great. I have 2 of them (both being 10A's) and both are just under 1 moa rifles. Have run flawless, and no complaints. I had a gen 1 sig 716. I absolutely hated it. Everything but the grip was proprietary, didn't shoot worth a shit, and had this wicked sharp kick to it that is worse than my 300 WM. I sold mine.

 

[teddy12b]

Very, very few American companies are under the original ownership and I’m not just talking about firearms. Colt, S&W, SA etc….. So if that concerns you to the point of not buying something then you’ll be living in a cave wearing clothes out of animal skin.

Here’s the thing, Armalite already put in the work to make an accurate, reliable and durable system years ago. That fact doesn’t change regardless of ownership of the company. What ownership of the company does change is how they do business. How is it to buy parts? How is customer service?

With the new company I think we have our answer. You can’t buy parts direct from them as you used to be able to do but they link where you can get them. Who cares where you get parts from just as long as you can get them. Customer service I haven’t seen anything to suggest that it is bad but I haven’t read anything to support it’s like when Westrom owned the company.

ETA I don’t really care for SAC, Armalite has a different feel to it from when Westrom owned it. I have enough parts to last me a life time and then some. I have yet to break a part since owning them for the past 25 years. I shoot suppressed, one has a binary trigger that gets used sometimes. I’ve burned out 2 barrels shooting precision, not doing mag dumps. That’s about 16,000 rounds…..

I agree with a lot of this. I don't fault a company for changing ownership and it's a natural part of the entities survival. I just know it doesn't always work out well. In the case of Armalite, I think it absolutely makes sense that they made the changes to use pmags.

One thing I'm doing while thinking of this is getting on MidwayUSA & Brownells looking for parts. When I look for a replacement bolt carrier group I'm not seeing any, for any brand, other than maybe old style DPMS. On the manufacturers websites, I'm not seeing where I can buy a spare either.

 

[GhostFace]

Parts

 

[LRRPF52]

I miss DPMS of the mid 2000s.

They kicked out a mediocre product across the board, with many rifles that just wouldn’t run.

My LR-308 folded the extractor rim over within a few boxes of ammo back in 2007 right before I took it to a Sniper Competition overseas. I was able to get a replacement, but it wasn’t confidence-inspiring.

Anecdote for sure, but their own product manager told me when they sat down after Luth sold out the company to Freedom Group, they wanted to fix the LR-308. Everyone was commenting on little tweaks they wanted to make, and he just broke out with, “How about we make it actually reliable."

They made a list of things that needed to happen, and realized they were better off going with a clean slate. That’s how the GII was born. GII went through excellent design and development processes, extensive pyramid testing with man-firing and 100k rounds, then they sabotaged it by offering early 2000s-era pineapple quad rails from YHM on some of the SKUs, CLGS 16” barrels for the MOE, and crap that made most of the models heavier than they needed to be.

Those SKUs were handed over to DPMS production and QA left over from LR-308 and AP4, with predictable results of defecating the bed. It could have been a great product line with QA/QC overhauled, but the organizational culture was already in place to seize defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[LRRPF52]

The things that concern me about armalite is the changes in ownership. I get it's an old name like Springfield, but just like Springfield it's not the original. Maybe that's good, bad, or meaningless but it's something. I do like how Armalite changed their mag system when they came back though. I've just read too many bad reports on reliability for Ruger, PSA, or Aero.

When I say plink what that means to me is the occasional defensive rifle class, maybe take it hunting, and definitely plink at the range at distance to see what it'll do.

The M14 magazines actually run great in the AR-10B variants, and allow more COL. Feeding is smooth and trouble-free. I’ve seen a lot of them go though higher-volume shoot sessions ranging from the US East Coast to Finland in extreme cold, and never saw a malf.

 

[teddy12b]

I've owned two of the old school DPMS 308B's which was an 18" heavy barrel. Both were very accurate and I'm talking close to 1/2". They were both used at 1,000 yards just for fun. I never took them to any competitions, but they were also pretty heavy. Each one I had, and ended up having to sell for the $$$ as we were raising kids. The first one was far more reliable than the second, but they both did pretty good.

 

[LRRPF52]

I quickly learned to look at the 1st Gen DPMS LR-308s and AP4s as starting points to work off of, using the receivers and BCG as a donor action, then replacing most everything else.

I see Aero M5s and PSAs in the same light, but since there are enough working rifles to just grab, glass, and go shoot, there’s no need to waste your time if you really want a large frame for some reason.

I personally am done with large frames, which is sad to admit, being such a big AR-10 guy for so many decades. I never thought we were going to have access to them, given the trajectory of anti-2A infringements being passed in the late 1980s and the 1994 AWB.

KAC came out of their normal areas of expertise with suppressors in the 1980s, and made the SR-25 with Stoner, which changed everything.