RELOADING PROBLEM what can I do???

whitenup11

whitenup11

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Minuteman
Jul 30, 2013
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middle america
#1
I am reloading some WSM. I had about 30 cases prepped at the same time with the same die. I didnt do a full length die just partial length. Today when I was seating bullets I noticed a few of them were way short. after further inspection I noticed that the bullets were able to slide in and out of the cases. I went ahead and reloaded all the cases I had prepped and kept the ones that were "tight enough" not to move and hold their OAL. any suggestions why this would have happened to some of these cases? anything that I can do to get them smaller around the neck? they are primed and not sure if the depriming pin will set the charge off? I assume not but just thought I would ask. ANything that I can do to the necks to get them down to size with doing a FL resize? thanks for your responses.
 
#3
What exactly do you mean by a partial length size? What die did you use?

The neck always needs to be sized. That can be done with a neck die that only sizes the neck or a full length die sizing the full length including the neck.

You can pull the decapping pin and full length size again without doing any harm. You can also push the primers out with a decapping pin...just turn your head. A drop of oil in the primer will render it void.
 
#4
Using a FL die you have to run the case all the way thru its cycle of the die. Just partially skiing the case doesn't Sierra the necks. If you want to fl and or just neck die you can purchase a redding type S die that bumps the shoulder and uses a neck bushing for the necks or you can use a redding body die to just size the case but the you need a neck die to die the necks.
 
#5
dddoo7 said:
What exactly do you mean by a partial length size? What die did you use?

The neck always needs to be sized. That can be done with a neck die that only sizes the neck or a full length die sizing the full length including the neck.

You can pull the decapping pin and full length size again without doing any harm. You can also push the primers out with a decapping pin...just turn your head. A drop of oil in the primer will render it void.
Click to expand...

I have the redding competition dies. I have always full length sized my brass for AR's but now on this bolt action I wanted to try to just partial size them. I read about how to do it here and then demonstrations on you tube. So the primers will discharge when I pop them out??
 
#6
James n TN said:
Using a FL die you have to run the case all the way thru its cycle of the die. Just partially skiing the case doesn't Sierra the necks. If you want to fl and or just neck die you can purchase a redding type S die that bumps the shoulder and uses a neck bushing for the necks or you can use a redding body die to just size the case but the you need a neck die to die the necks.
Click to expand...

Ok, so a question is how come some of the necks were sized and I didnt have a slipping bullet and then the other necks were a little too big and bullets slipped up and down?
 
#7
To partial size properly with a FL die vs adjusting them down to the shell plate according to manufacturer instructions you must have them set up to properly size cases via measurements. To do this you will need to adjust the dies so that you have 0.001-0.002 of shoulder bump for a bolt gun. If you do not partial size down far enough you will end up with inadequate sizing and inconsistent neck tension.
 
#8
whitenup11 said:
I have the redding competition dies. I have always full length sized my brass for AR's but now on this bolt action I wanted to try to just partial size them. I read about how to do it here and then demonstrations on you tube. So the primers will discharge when I pop them out??
Click to expand...

If you're careful and don't hamfist the lever when depriming, you can easily remove live primers and reuse them, but if you're worried, you can kill the primer with some oil or WD-40.
 
#10
Are these bushing dies? Are you using a bushing in them? If so...and you are sizing them far enough down then you have too large of a bushing. If your bushing was right on the border with new brass it might be too big with multi fired brass. Multi fired brass is harder (not annealed) and also thinner because it has stretched and been trimmed.

I have popped out quite a few live primers and never had one go off, but there is no need to pop them out. Just remove the decapping pin. Or if it is a bushing die you can remove the entire rod.
 
#12
dddoo7 said:
Are these bushing dies? Are you using a bushing in them? If so...and you are sizing them far enough down then you have too large of a bushing. If your bushing was right on the border with new brass it might be too big with multi fired brass. Multi fired brass is harder (not annealed) and also thinner because it has stretched and been trimmed.

I have popped out quite a few live primers and never had one go off, but there is no need to pop them out. Just remove the decapping pin. Or if it is a bushing die you can remove the entire rod.
Click to expand...

the dies are the redding competition dies. I have not added anyting to them they are just factory standard. Sounds like maybe I didnt bump the should back enough. however I didnt buy a set of hornady head space gauges and made sure they were .002 back on all of them. some of them were a little more. maybe the brass is just getting old. I bought the set up from a guy on here and maybe some of the brass from the reloads are getting worn.
 
#14
You need a bushing in order for these dies to size the neck (which absolutely must be sized). I recommend the tin bushings as they don't require lube when only neck sizing.
 
#15
whitenup11 said:
the gun I'm reloading is 7wsm. THe dies are redding competition S dies and not sure the bushing size. Its whatever came with the dies.
Click to expand...

The dies do NOT come with the bushing in them!

You need to measure the neck thickness and the bullet diameter in order to buy the right bushing.
Most factory chambers need you to use 2 (TWO) bushings, one down from the obturated diameter to an intermediate size, then a second pass with the final bushing.
 
#16
Just load a round in a case measure the neck with a mic and subtract . 002 from this and order the appropriate bushing it's best to have bushings .002 .003 smaller than your loaded round

Sent from my Droid RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk Pro
 
#17
James n TN said:
Just load a round in a case measure the neck with a mic and subtract . 002 from this and order the appropriate bushing it's best to have bushings .002 .003 smaller than your loaded round

Sent from my Droid RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

the guy who i purchased the gun and dies from reloaded with these dies for for a few years. im pretty sure its not the die its something that i need to do. Im gonna go knock a primer out and do a full length resize on one and see what that does
 
#18
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#19
The FIRST thing I do, with a "new" set of dies, is disassemble and clean them. The I check the schematics and assemble them per the specs. Bushings have an upside and a down-side! Bumping the shoulder back does NOT affect neck tension, except for the "dreaded donut". Consistent neck tension DIRECTLY affects accuracy! Please slow down, do the "homework". Read your reloading manual again. Inspect your new old dies for missing parts. The LAST thing iI'd do, is assume the used dies were OK. Don't blow your nose off. Be "absolutely damn sure", not "pretty sure".
 
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#20
ok so this is the first time ive used redding dies. I think they may be different then the hornady rifle dies. I have a die set that has 2 FL sizing dies and a competition seater die. am I missing something that I need to reload the 7wsm. when i reload using he hornady there are only 2 dies that I use. I think I may have left something out. here are pics of what i have

IMG_2601.jpgIMG_2603.jpg
 
#21
JoshcBoucher said:
The FIRST thing I do, with a "new" set of dies, is disassemble and clean them. The I check the schematics and assemble them per the specs. Bushings have an upside and a down-side! Bumping the shoulder back does NOT affect neck tension, except for the "dreaded donut". Consistent neck tension DIRECTLY affects accuracy! Please slow down, do the "homework". Read your reloading manual again. Inspect your new old dies for missing parts. The LAST thing iI'd do, is assume the used dies were OK. Don't blow your nose.............OFF!
Click to expand...

Im pretty careful and meticulous in what I do. Ive only used the hornady dies and unfamiliar with redding. there is something different from what Ive learned on for my AR and 45ACP. Thats why I am here asking questions and doing my homework to try figure out my error. can you explain to me in my photos above what I need or if i even need something else. thanks
 
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#24
Ok. I figured out how to blow up the pic. Give me a shot of the decapping assembly, from the side. It looks like you have two decapping dies. You might have a full length die, and a neck sizing die. If that assembly came out of the neck die, I'm not seeing the bushing.
 
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#25
Make friends with somebody from the highpower or F-class shooters group where you live. Get him to check your setup, and make sure you do the right things. Also, check with previous owner and ask if he turned the case necks. If so, get new brass, since you will have to buy several different bushings to match the different neck thicknesses. There are potentially a lot of factors operating here, and you need to know every one of them, to minimize the expense, and make sure the loads are safe. Also, ask the previous owner if the chamber is cut to special size, such as a tighter neck than usual, which can make neck turning essential for safety and accuracy. After a round is fired, and before sizing, a bullet must be able to fall through the neck. Otherwise, the neck portion of the chamber is too tight. Partial neck sizing is generally a waste of time, and can get a live round stuck in the chamber, which definitely means a trip to the gunsmith, and could mean a new barrel.
 
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#28
Ok. Nice pic. It looks to me like the bushing is in the wrong place and so is the nut. But I need some time to pull up the schematics of your die, to "know" what's what. I'll try to work in the time. Just for a thought: I've been reloading, for 30 + yrs? . A month ago, I made an " assumption" , that moving a COL from 2. 96, to 2.8 wasn't a "problem", for my load. Boy, was I wrong. I went from a hot load to a dangerous load, that fast. I went back to the book, posted here, got deservedly kicked for my "rooky" mistake, and learned. Just sayin that loose neck tension, and bullets moving from COL can be a big, bad issue for you.Jim k brought up some points that are very valid. Read his post, again. I hadn't even considered them, but are spot on. Those are the "problems" with buying a used set up.
 
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#30
#31
Ok. I found a picture of your die in my Sinclair catalog. Looks like the nut is on upside down on the shaft, and the bushing is gone. Could it be stuck in the die body? Get a small light, and see. Other wise, ya need a bushing. If ya don't have the papers for the die set, you should contact them, and get them. It' no wonder you're having trouble.
 
#32
O/P you need to find out what you have and then go from there. If you have a set of Redding "S" bushing dies, you need to get an instruction manual and read it carefully.

O/P look at the side of the die box and photograph it and post it here or let us know what die set you have. There will be a product code number on the box, that will tell you / us what you have.

Now, what it LOOKS like you have is a set (F/L die, Neck Only die and a micrometer seating die) of Redding "S" bushing dies. BUSHING dies are a different animal than a regular set of dies. BUSHING dies require you to purchase separately a bushing in a certain size to properly size the necks of your brass. Bushing dies also give you the option of using or NOT using an expander ball / button. I don't use the expander ball / button when using my "S" bushing dies.

As an example, I have "S" bushing sizes for my 308 Winchester dies in .337",.335",.333",.331" and .329" to use for all of the different makes of brass I have that has different thicknesses of case necks.

Redding "S" bushing dies are different and are a bit more complicated to use than regular off the shelf reloading dies.

Try to find someone in your area that can tutor you in using these dies. It's obvious from your posts you don't understand how to use them. There's also a ton of information on the net to help.
 
#33
JoshcBoucher said:
Ok. I found a picture of your die in my Sinclair catalog. Looks like the nut is on upside down on the shaft, and the bushing is gone. Could it be stuck in the die body? Get a small light, and see. Other wise, ya need a bushing. If ya don't have the papers for the die set, you should contact them, and get them. It' no wonder you're having trouble.
Click to expand...

Ok, i have it all squared away I believe. What was throwing me was and extra die, which was a bushing die from the way I understand it. I have only used the hornady die sets and there is not a separate bushing die . You are correct the bushing is gone and my local store didnt have the neck bushing. oh well, i will order one. I went ahead and ran the cases throw that die anyway per my local stores recommendation and everything seemed to be fine. I could verify the neck being sized by a small ring about 3/4 down the neck. I think Im good. Im still a bit confused as to the purpose of the neck bushings vs what I did. when I measured with head space gauge i was at least .0015 less than an untouched fired case. I was just confused because I have always reloaded AR's and never really messed with precision shooting. Still learning about the details of precision reloads without the help of anyone. Its much easier to learn when you have someone who to show you what youre reading or hearing. anyway thanks for your help
 
#34
FLIGHT762 said:
O/P you need to find out what you have and then go from there. If you have a set of Redding "S" bushing dies, you need to get an instruction manual and read it carefully.

O/P look at the side of the die box and photograph it and post it here or let us know what die set you have. There will be a product code number on the box, that will tell you / us what you have.

Now, what it LOOKS like you have is a set (F/L die, Neck Only die and a micrometer seating die) of Redding "S" bushing dies. BUSHING dies are a different animal than a regular set of dies. BUSHING dies require you to purchase separately a bushing in a certain size to properly size the necks of your brass. Bushing dies also give you the option of using or NOT using an expander ball / button. I don't use the expander ball / button when using my "S" bushing dies.

As an example, I have "S" bushing sizes for my 308 Winchester dies in .337",.335",.333",.331" and .329" to use for all of the different makes of brass I have that has different thicknesses of case necks.

Redding "S" bushing dies are different and are a bit more complicated to use than regular off the shelf reloading dies.

Try to find someone in your area that can tutor you in using these dies. It's obvious from your posts you don't understand how to use them. There's also a ton of information on the net to help.
Click to expand...

thanks for your help. do i just measure the neck of a fired case to determine the neck bushing to get? do i subtract a couple .001?
IMG_2606.jpg
 
#35
Your die set #36365 : Redding Type S Match Bushing 2-Die Set 7mm Winchester Short Mag (WSM)

Originally is a two die set, a F/L "S" bushing die and a Micrometer seating die. Your third die must have been purchased separately. You will have to look on the body of the dies to see what is the third die.

To determine a bushing size, you can take a loaded round and carefully measure the O/D of the neck with a bullet seated. You then deduct .001"-.002" for your bushing size. That is what I do, but I deducted -.001" and it has worked for me, many people deduct -.002".


Another method is to measure the neck thickness with a ball micrometer. Double the neck wall thickness and add this number to the bullet diameter. The result is the neck diameter of a loaded cartridge, and bushing size can be determined as above.
 
#36
FLIGHT762 said:
Your die set #36365 : Redding Type S Match Bushing 2-Die Set 7mm Winchester Short Mag (WSM)

Originally is a two die set, a F/L "S" bushing die and a Micrometer seating die. Your third die must have been purchased separately. You will have to look on the body of the dies to see what is the third die.

To determine a bushing size, you can take a loaded round and carefully measure the O/D of the neck with a bullet seated. You then deduct .001"-.002" for your bushing size. That is what I do, but I deducted -.001" and it has worked for me, many people deduct -.002"


Another method is to measure the neck thickness with a ball micrometer. Double the neck wall thickness and add this number to the bullet diameter. The result is the neck diameter of a loaded cartridge, and bushing size can be determined as above.
Click to expand...


Looked at my dies one says redding 7mmWSM B/FL M7 and the other say redding 7mmWSM FL M7.

So since i have a FL and a bushing/FL which one should I use. not sure why the other was purchased separately. Im assuming the die marked as B/FL is the one i would take apart and add the neck bushing.. correct?
 
#38
whitenup11 said:
Looked at my dies one says redding 7mmWSM B/FL M7 and the other say redding 7mmWSM FL M7.

Im assuming the die marked as B/FL is the one i would take apart and add the neck bushing.. correct?
Click to expand...

Yes. I would use the F/L M7 until you want to use the bushing die. Now, F/L size your cases properly, not this partial sizing shit. Get a case gauge and measure your fired cases and when you F/L size, bump the shoulder back only -.001"-.002". Capiche ?
 
#39
dddoo7 said:
You can pull the decapping pin and full length size again without doing any harm. You can also push the primers out with a decapping pin...just turn your head. A drop of oil in the primer will render it void.
Click to expand...

Just a quick safety note:

NO NO NO it will not! A drop of oil on a modern primer = an oily live primer. Oil, WD-40, etc. can not be relied on to deactivate a primer.

Stick the case in the chamber at the range and make it go boom.

Or, if you don't mind having a still-live primer, as others have said, you can carefully/gently push it out with the decapping pin in the die. WEAR EYE PROTECTION.
 
#40
I'd go with hearing protection also. Leave the primers dry, gently bring the shell up to the depriming pin until it touches the primer, then gently press the primer out. The primers will be reusable. I'd keep it for fouling rounds or sighters just in case there is a crack in it.
 
#41
You do not need to deprime the cases. Just pull the expander and remove the decapping pin.

Then resize the cases. If you do not push the case all the way into the die, you will not push the neck into the part of the die that sizes it.

You can also buy a neck size only die and resize just the necks of the cases.

And if you are using a die with bushings, DOUBLE check that you have the proper bushing installed in the die.

And since you said the guy used the dies to reload for years, did he actually include the bushing with the die? He may have kept the bushing to use with other dies.
 
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