rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

[dynamic research]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

Find a gunsmith with a bore scope and have a look in the bore. It may suprise you what you will see. This will tell you if your barrel needs replacing. If your scope has been shooting well before, this is where I would start.

 

[cmdrtim]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

You might look at Vortex they are a solid optic at a very reasonable price I have them on my duty rifle (M4) and my Remington 700 LPR in .308 no problems will sub moa all day

 

[PhOnEpHrEaK]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyanMcIntyre</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Melsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no advise is ever looked at as offensive

</div></div>
Then may I state the obvious? Centerpoint and BSA scopes? I've beaten the reticle out of a BSA scope before so my faith in their quality is that they're as "good" as Tasco and Simmons. I'm not saying you need to spend a fortune on optics, but my experience is that until the price goes around and over $300 with name brands, clicks aren't reliable and reticles don't stay in place, especially as they age and the beatings accumulate.

If that isn't the issue, none of the other points that were brought up aren't the issue, and you're confident in your ammo, then maybe it's some things I haven't heard mentioned yet: namely barrel cleanliness/fouling or something else is loose like trigger pins, sling stud, or a broken spring or something erratic. I don't mean to patronize you, but maybe your form is changing during your session. Even the best shooters dry fire more than live fire. Could be fatigue or your ears ringing or a flinch.

Last, you sound like a hell of a shooter if you can get a stock 700 under 1/2". I'm in that 100 yard group contest further down the page and the proof is that it takes expensive rifles to do that consistently; I know, I'm shooting a stock 700 against those guys. Part of me slightly doubts your claim of 1/2", but for all I know it's probably true because it's certainly plausible with the right load and riflemen better than me. BUT what I'm saying is - I'm not refuting your claim - maybe your memory of earlier groups is optimistic or centered on that one good one and not all of them.

I do that all the time!

I haven't intended to offend you, just a brutally honest look from my side of the keyboard. I'm just trying to help. </div></div>



My 700 shoots 1/2 MOA if I do my part.


To help with the question. My bet is that it is the scope. I had one on a .22 a few years ago and it died on me within 6 months.

 

[Melsy]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

Optic fund has been started YAY how is the bushnell banner 6-24 mil scope. any thoughts on it. i looked through a 4-16 banner on saturday and it looked pretty good in well lit academy looking at a spot across the store on high power. MUCH better then the BSA. thanks for helping me dodge a bullet on that one.

 

[cadbike]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Melsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Optic fund has been started YAY how is the bushnell banner 6-24 mil scope. any thoughts on it. i looked through a 4-16 banner on saturday and it looked pretty good in well lit academy looking at a spot across the store on high power. MUCH better then the BSA. thanks for helping me dodge a bullet on that one. </div></div>

Still not what I would consider an upgrade. Look at the Vortex scopes in the viper line. It is worth the wait to save up for something with a proven track record that you can rely on.

 

[okiefired]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

The Bushnell is definately and upgrade over the BSA. If you could jump up to a 3200, it wound be a big jump IMO....but dont scimp on rings....its a weekest link kinda thing ya know.

okie

 

[Helter]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Melsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Optic fund has been started YAY how is the bushnell banner 6-24 mil scope. any thoughts on it. i looked through a 4-16 banner on saturday and it looked pretty good in well lit academy looking at a spot across the store on high power. MUCH better then the BSA. thanks for helping me dodge a bullet on that one. </div></div>

Based (solely) on some comments in the optics section regarding Bushnell's customer service, you might want to avoid them. You will be doing yourself a favor in the long run if you stick to optics that the company will stand behind.

 

[George63]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Helter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Melsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Optic fund has been started YAY how is the bushnell banner 6-24 mil scope. any thoughts on it. i looked through a 4-16 banner on saturday and it looked pretty good in well lit academy looking at a spot across the store on high power. MUCH better then the BSA. thanks for helping me dodge a bullet on that one. </div></div>

Based (solely) on some comments in the optics section regarding Bushnell's customer service, you might want to avoid them. You will be doing yourself a favor in the long run if you stick to optics that the company will stand behind. </div></div>

Bushnell CS if fine on the elite line - lifetime no bs warranty, that is what is included in the deal

just do not expect the same warranty on the basic scopes because that was never what was agreed upon/ paid for

 

[Melsy]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

well i got a banner from a guy 6-24 with 50mm objective for 85$ so i am going to install that and use it but i have a scope fund still going that i add a couple dollars to everyday so i can upgrade to something around the 3 to 40 range in 6 months or so.

 

[hammer502]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

i have a millet 4-16x56 mil dot on my 700. getting to the range soon,i hope. looks clear out in the back yard,but the neighbors look at me funny sitting on the porch looking across the pond. good luck with yours and i say go for the millet!

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PhOnEpHrEaK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My 700 shoots 1/2 MOA if I do my part.
</div></div>

I think you misunderstood, "<span style="font-weight: bold">shoots</span> 1/2 MOA" means it reliably, consistently, and repeatably shoots under .50235" at 100 yards - every group. "<span style="font-weight: bold">Shot</span> 1/2 MOA" is more believable and realistic from a stock gun in that build quality/price range. My 700s shot .376" and .430" in the contest(you can see my targets for proof), but consistently shot only .649" and .609", proving that my 700s don't actually even shoot 1/2 MOA.

Currently there's only two guys with rifles that shoot under 1/2 MOA in the 100 yard thread and one in the 300 yard thread under 3/4 MOA, and all three are high-dollar, custom guns.

 

[Melsy]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

so got got f'n scammed. The "bushnall" scope is a knock off with a bushnell tag. The reticule moves diagnal and i can only get around 15 to 20 clicks of moveable cross hairs.

 

[redirt78]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

More wasted money. Someone said earlier, before you got the Banner that it was not a real upgrade anyways. So whether it was real or fake you were wasting money. Keep saving, use what you already had for now. Shoot 5 shot groups and let your barrel cool between shots, especially after the first three. Never post pics of a target with holes all over it and claim that all those other random holes are not part of the group. It doesn't help anyone who might be trying to diagnose any problems when they see all of those extra holes with a circle drawn around the tightest 3 or 5. Don't ever spray "sighters" or "barrel heat up" rounds, make every shot as good as it can be. Having buddies pick up random brass at the range, with no idea how many times they have been shot is probably not the best idea when trying to handload for gnat's ass accuracy.

Good luck, keep saving, keep shooting.

 

[Melsy]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

yeah i see your point. the centerpoint i am using is definitly the issue. i put it on my boresighter and adjusted knobs all around and they rarely move straight. guess im just stuck for a while

 

[redirt78]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

Sucks man, a lot of us have been there so use some of the advice especially if it gets repeated 3-4 times. Hate that the $85 you spent was damn near 1/3 the cost of something decent. I thought I had decent gear until I joined here... Been flat broke, but with way cooler/better performing chit ever since haha.

Oh, some vendors will take down payments and let you pay as you can for gear so ask around. That's how I have been able to afford some of my stuff. You can also get really good second hand equipment from older members in the classified section here.

You will really appreciate it when you finally own a scope that does what you tell it to. Dialing a turret and knowing the reticle is going where it needs to is priceless, not to mention taking a beating and holding a good zero.

 

[Melsy]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

thats good to know on the down payment stuff. ive been looking at the for sale when i have time but i work ALOT and by the time i get to look at it i can never catch up with all the new stuff lol. I have came to the conclusion that my gun is broke without a scope and i need to fix it... I have some money saved up and i am takiing in a few side jobs this weekend and and going to push what i can to get the 350 for something decent. Problem is that none near me stocks the mil dot bushnells or anything besides leupold or Nikon. im not really a fan of the nikoplex reticule. I am going to take back the leupold high rings i bought as well since i dont know tube size of an unknown scope. Thank you everone who has posted here and offered advise. I am really stubborn and hard headed and one day i will learn to listen

 

[redirt78]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

It's nice to support local shops but not at your expense if it's not what you need. Try SWFA and also check their used scopes. A fixed 10x that tracks and holds zero is better than a lot of options out there in your price range. I have also heard the Millets are good for the money as well as Vortex like people have mentioned. This $350 range scope you are saving for will eventually be your backup if you stick around here/shooting for a while.

There are a lot of good vendors here, do your homework before you buy something this time. Find the best deal you can

 

[fdkay]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

Many of us have been in your shoes.
Money is hard to come by, and it seems that anything of decent quality costs a lot.

350 is not a bad benchmark for a decent scope.
To be honest, I would not be too concerned with a mil-dot scope right now, just something that has decent glass and is solidly put together.

Years ago, before there was a real "tactical" scope market, I bought a Bausch and Lomb Elite 3000 4-12 scope. Glass was decent, not spectacular, it was fingertip adjustable, though not a tactical style turret scope, but it was accurate, repeatable and tough. Had it mounted on a 7mm Rem Mag.
I still have that scope, it still works and it cost about 280 bucks back in 1994.
It was my first "good" scope. It still is a good scope.

You don't "need" a tactical scope right now, you need a good, solid scope that tracks accurately and holds zero.
For example, look at this:
http://swfa.com/Sightron-45-14x42-SII-Big-Sky-Riflescope-P9165.aspx

It is initially a little higher than your budget, but with the 100 dollar rebate, comes in far below your budget.

 

[PhOnEpHrEaK]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

I never said my 700 was a stock 700 now did I??

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PhOnEpHrEaK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never said my 700 was a stock 700 now did I?? </div></div>

Then it's not apples to apples is it? Bragging doesn't help, it just gives him an unrealistic figure he'll never achieve.

Why don't you shoot in the 100 & 300 yard threads, sounds like you'll take top 3 for sure.

 

[tigerfan_9]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PhOnEpHrEaK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never said my 700 was a stock 700 now did I??</div></div>

Then what is the point of mentioning it? If not stock/factory then it is not a "rem 700" it is a custom build on a rem 700 action.

 

[David S]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MichaelK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Still not what I would consider an upgrade. Look at the Vortex scopes in the viper line. It is worth the wait to save up for something with a proven track record that you can rely on.</div></div>

I'll second this advice, but even go so far as to say you might be well-served to look at the Vortex PSTs, Melsy. They're much, much cheaper than the <span style="text-decoration: line-through">Vipers</span> Razors (i.e., $500-900, depending on whether or not you want first focal plane), but still deliver a beautifully clear, bright image. If you're on a really tight budget, I say they're worth a close look.

Yours,

David

 

[tigerfan_9]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

Vortex pst line or an swfa. Great scopes for the money. A straight 6, 10, 12 power swfa would be a nice buyer scope with good glass, mechanics and warranty.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

The truth is you have a hunting rifle, not a precision rifle. Those light little barrels commonly shoot three into a nice group, but after that, it's going to fly.

1/2 MOA rifles do exist, but very few factory sporters are going to do it. Accept it for what it is. I'd enjoy it for the fine hunting rifle it is. Also, as others have said, the scope isn't helping things, but I seriously doubt that it's the reason your rifle shoots three in a group and then "flyers".

 

[Melsy]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

i am using another scope and these are my new 300 yard groups

the bottom is a 6" sticky target and top is a 12"x12" grid.

I believe the problem was my powder measure. I poured 20 loads and weighed them and 13 were not dead on. Turns out the lee perfect powder measure is not prefect. Now im weighing every charge, seperating bullets by bearing surface, making the bullets just off the lands and a few other things that i skimped out on before. There is no telling what actually made the problem as to many veriables were changed but one thing is for sure. My 700 hates to be cold. The best grouping was with a barrel that was HOT HOT HOT. GOing to destroy the barrel but doesnt matter. begining next year im buying a good scope then blueprinting the action and getting a new barrel. So until then im going to murder this thing. Thanks to everyone that posted here and thatnks to all the advise given. Have a great thanksgiving and eat lots of delicious turkey

.

 

[HD1911]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

Why not just buy a $200 Midway Bushnell 10x Mildot with mil/mil Turrets? U won't find a better scope for that kind of money. They really are an awesome scope for someone on a Tight budget.

 

[Melsy]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

well begining next year im looking at spending around 350 for something but for now a friend gave me a bushnell banner 6-24 x40 that is a shit ton better than the centerpoint. just had to buy zee rings and i already am using leupold bases so its an ok combo till then

 

[HD1911]

Re: rem 700 .308 wont hold groups

Gotcha. Good deal