Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

[Rifle Barrel Blanks]

I have searched with not much luck so one of you experts might be able to help.

Will a magnum 700 long action make a good 338 action? I see alot of the big 338's having heavier custom actions. Also alot of action companies advertise a bigger and beefier action for the 338's. I am thinking about making a 338 rum out of a magnum bolt long action. Good idea or is there a better route for me?Thanks guys

Jake

 

[THUNDERBOLT68]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

remington already builds a 338rum and 338 lapua on that action so i would say yes, but bigger is better.

 

[shooter53]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

Short answer, YES. Be prepared to do some machining on the receiver to accomodate the 338 Lapua round. And beef up the recoil lug (min. 0.25")

Would not recommend for the faint of heart but I built one over a year ago on a 300 Win Mag action. Has over 1200 rounds down it with no problems.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

Yes to RUM and no to the Lapua. With a steady diet of warm loads in the RUM you will over time set the lugs back into the action. With the Lapua I can guarentee it and it will happen faster. The higher load on the lugs combined with a small contact area will lead to problems. Remington was forced by market pressure to bring the Lapua out in the 700. I'd expect it made a lot of people nervious. There are no short cuts when it comes to safety and reliability.

Here's some numbers that may help. These are the percentage increase in thrust on the bolt using a standard belted magnum case (.511 body diameter) as the base line.

RUM 16% increase in bolt thrust
Lapua 32% increase in bolt thrust

I'm in the middle of developing a 338 round that will easily work out of an AI Mag box. Performance will not quite be equal to the RUM but reliability and function mean more to me than balls to the wall speed.

 

[JJones75]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

Dave , I've heard some guys say that by "Ackley"improving the big Lapua case that you can get the bolt thrust issues back into a normal range. I'm not experianced enough to accept that.

It seems to me that bolt thrust is bolt thrust and pressure is pressure , maybe the wrong way of thinking but woulden't a round like the 300 H&H loaded to say 85,000psi give an action more trouble than if you ackley improved it and ran the same pressures? I understand that those pressures are way higher than needed I'me just wondering if it would negate some of the lug setback

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

JJones75

Pressure is pressure regardless of chamber shape. Step on a tube of tooth paste and there is equal pressure on all sides. If we were speaking in strickly scientific terms we would probably use ID of the case not the OD. But the % increase in thrust is still pretty much correct. Then there is another issue that comes up with Lapua's on Remingtons. Chamber side wall strength. 1 1/16" diameter barrel tenon is marginal. With high pressure loads extraction problems will show up quickly. The side walls of the barrel tenon expand, the action receiver ring expands. Both past the yield point of the brass then pressure subsides, receiver and barrel return to original size, brass doesn't and you have sticky extraction. Winchester had problems with the WSM's on a 1" diameter tenon.

You can't fool Mother Nature.

 

[Rifle Barrel Blanks]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

So you are saying I will be fine with a 338 rum with average loads

 

[rundm]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

So are you all saying that if I shoot 1k rounds out of my 300Rum or Lapua that the action is going to blow up on me down the road. Why would Rem put something like this out knowing that some people shoot alot and that they could easily have company ending law suits just a short time down the road? I am not contradicting anything you all are saying but I shoot a fair bit and do not want my head taken off because I happen to have alot of rounds down the chamber.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

rundm

No your action won't blow up. What happens is the constant pounding of the bolt lugs on the action lugs displace metal over time. With enough shooting the headspace changes and things just don't fit as well as they did. The issue with the barrel tenon is just an extraction problem.I've seen as much as .005" set back on a 30 cal. wildcat on the standard magnum case that was shot very hot for years.

Remember that the brass case itself is a safety valve. It will rupture long before the action comes apart. I've got a Remington bolt in here with the nose gone. Best as I can calculate that round expanded the barrel tenon .009". That round was probably in the neighborhood of 100K PSI.

All I'm saying is the RUM would be as large as I will put on a Remington action and have stated why.

 

[pd721el]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

just too clear things up for me, are you speaking of the 338 rum cartridge itself or the ultra mag size cartridge family. I ask because I am about to build an 338 edge.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

pd721el

Yes I'm talking about a class of cartridges based on case diameter.

 

[308isgreat]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

I don't want to start any pissing contests or rain on anyone's parade but I've had no problems with my 700.

It was built by Rumble Wepnz on a long action and was machined to reliably feed and extract using the Wyatt detachable mag setup. The bolt is made by PTG if I recall correctly.

I have measured headspace alot and can say the headspace has not grown at all over the course of 1800 rounds. I haven't checked to see if the barrel tenon has grown, but I can tell you the base of the case is still measuring the same diameter since the rifle has been built. Also, I don't have any of the extraction issues mentioned in previous posts. Most of my loads are right at max pressure or just a little below it.

All I can say is that this rifle is amazingly accurate and totally reliable. I won't hesitate to have another 338 Lapua built on a remy 700. I trust the guys at Rumble Wepnz to do quality work, and know other people that have said the same thing.

Like I said earlier, I don't want to start any crap, I'm just giving you all my actual experience with my rifle!

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

308isgreat

No pissing contest here. Never will be with me. Nothing wrong with a civil discussion that ends with different opinions.

A steady diet of moderate loads shouldn't cause a problem for you but some people have no common sense. Those are the people I have to plan for. All barrel tenons grow under pressure. Under normal conditions they have not gone past their yield point and come back to their original size. Happens every time you pull the trigger regardless of caliber.
My position as a riflesmith is a larger action is needed. That's not to sell anyone anything but it's a prudent thing to do when using that large a case. I've seen too many things over the years. Rule #1 in my shop is don't do anything to make the phone ring. Taking care of that rule starts with safety, function and accuracy.

 

[308isgreat]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

Dave Tooley:


Thanks for your response. The way people respond will tell you if they are newbs or pros, and you are definetly the latter.

LOL, you really have been at this a while if you're concerned about the lack of common sense people tend to have

I've been running near or at max pressure loads through this rifle for a little over a year now without any issue. I was wondering, since you're in the business of building rifles, would you happen to know if there is any difference in the Remy 338 action versus any of their other long actions? I haven't heard anyone say that a difference exists and thought a pro might be privy to this information.

Anyways, you've earned my respect (FWIW) and I look forward to picking your brain in the future!

 

[vman]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

So, could you guys explain to me if in a nut shell you think the Remy .338 Lapua Police MLR is a good choice?

Out here in Australia, you will be hard pressed to find the sort of gunsmiths available like those in the states... yes maybe skill levels are comparable however we just dont have big custom gunsmiths out here so purchasing a custom made .338 Lapua may prove difficult.

If you see a .338 Lapua out here it tends to either be one of the following.

1) Rem 700 MLR $2500 AU
2) TRG 42 $8000 AU
3) accuracy international $10,000 AU (i think?)

So if you were in my shoes and dont have custom actions available on hand, would you go with a Remy MLR or fork out the extra money for a European make?

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

308isgreat

Thank you for your kind comments. I'm here anytime you have a question.

The only difference in the actions that I'm aware of are the feed rails.

BTW I started out as one of those guys with no common sense.

 

[Dick D]

Re: Rem700 long action make a good 338 action???

There is a reason the custom action makers like Surgeon and Stiller and BAT and Nesika Bay make their big actions designed for the .338 Lapua. In the long run many of them, especially the Stiller .338 arn't really that much more money than what you spend on a Remington with the blueprinting, bolt face conversion and feed rail work. Like Dave says, the brass case is the safety valve, but a lot happens when you touch one of these big cartridges off about 9" in front of your face, and it's kind of comforting to have the extra safety margins these big actions have. And you can still build a pretty high end rifle for a lot less than what the TRG or AI rifles cost, not that they are not fine weapons, just a bit pricy.