Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

[USSR]

Just got to thinking. It was about 10 years ago that MontanaMarine and myself were both developing the modern .30-06 Tactical Rifle load. You know, the 190SMK load at 2900fps that guys were telling us couldn't be done? All the great posts are gone, what with several Sniper's Hide software upgrades, but just wondering if there are any 'ol timers out there that remember all the load development work we did, and the grief that we took in doing it? Oh, and here's a shout out to Shane!

Don

 

[Mike]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Don,
Long time no see. I remember and followed in your and Shane's footsteps for a while.

I hope you keep it up.

 

[USSR]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Hey Mike,

Glad to see there is still a friendly face around here.

Don

 

[doc76251]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Don,

Good to see you again, been wondering where you got to. I think I picked up the torch for a while. Working on the 225's now

Cheers,

Doc

 

[bohem]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Several years before my time, but Shane's posts on RL-22 with 210gr class pills pushed me to experiment with slow powders and heavier bullets.

Til then I was still shooting 180-190 class bullets with RL19 and H4831

I'm still a huge fan of the venerable old -06 case with whatever diameter bullet you stuff down its throat.

 

[DP425]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Are you serious?!?! You guys developed a load within pressure spec that would send a 190smk only 50fps slower in .30-06 than in .300WM????

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

USSR, long time no see here! Yeah it was good stuff.

I still shoot the 30-06, but have migrated up to the 208gr AMax, and dabbling with the 225gr Hornady.

I'm thinking RL17 under a moly'd 190 would do even better. RL22 was running pretty much running out of case capacity for me at about 62gr.

208s at 2800 fps in a 26" bbl have been proven by many here, mostly with RL22.

I cut my 30-06 to 22.5", and still getting 2740 fps out of the 208s, propelled by RL17.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Yea, and glad to be a part of the 200 gr 2800+ FPS 26" RL22 work myself as well with you not too long after that.

 

[trailrider121]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Yeah great guys here on the Hide, lots of great info. I'm currently using 185 vld with H4350.

I plan in the future here to experience with RL-17 & Rl-22. I have a pretty decent load with 208's with Ramshot Hunter, getting 2720fps with 24" barrel.

 

[Bevan]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

That just sounds all kinds of unpleasant to shoot.

 

[Bevan]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I bet it's hell of effective on the other end, though.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Heck yeah, Don. Good hearing from you again. Your posts fanned my fires for a lightweight .30-'06 walkabout accurate rifle. There was some effort to develop a common load for that and my Garand, but I never completed that project. Reading this just might give me the kick in the butt that I need to get it off the back burner again. Hoping to see you and your young 'un again at our matches, might be good company for my 15yo Granddaughter.

Greg

 

[Kells81]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Odd that I have only ever owned a few 30-06's and that they all were Garands....

I just never seen the point of it but I am young. I have seen some sweet sticks that were '06's built for LR shooting. I always figured if I couldn't get it with a 308 then the 300WM would definitely work. My F-I-L has the theory that if he cant get it with a 22cal weapon then a 30-06 will do the trick. My dad was a die hard 30-06 guy and swore by the caliber.

Does sound pretty interesting to push 190's with decent results out of a non magnum stick. I guess an old winnie pre-64 target in this setup would be the cats ass of old school rifles.

 

[Red_SC]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Good to see you back Don, I remember those discussions well.

Don, remember the argument we had on thehighroad with the tool and die maker about how fluting affects barrel stiffness? The quotes we posted from barrel manufacturers didn't matter, we were idiots because we were a couple of computer hacks, not machinists. Hah, that pretty much finished that site off for me.

 

[Chance]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Yep, I was here and followed the posts directly. Because of what ya'll did I ended up building a 30-06 with a 21" bbl. I built it to use the heavy bullets, but it never liked them. Mine seemed to like 168 and 175 SMK's driven at around 308 speeds. I ended up selling mine, but I have a lot of love for the old girl (30-06) and currently own two hunting rifle configurations.

 

[USSR]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Ah, yes, there still <span style="font-style: italic">are</span> some 'ol timers here.

Speaking of 208's, I've got an unopened box of them that I have been meaning to try. I also have some of the lightweight Norma brass that Shane likes, so I'll have to mate them up sometime this summer and see what I get. 2800fps with those high BC suckers has got to be pretty flat shooting (and kick like a mule).

Don

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Don,

The 208s are a pussycat in my 16 lb, braked '06.

I also have a sporterweight unbraked '06 that gives a full-ticket ride with the 208s. It'll wake you up if you are not in a good tight position.

 

[USSR]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Shane,

Got no brake. Although the rifle weighs 16.5 lbs, even the 190's play havoc on my collar bone in the prone position.

That's why I had the 6.5 Swede built for F Class.

Don

 

[trailrider121]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I've been thinking of getting my barrel threaded for a muzzle brake for those 208's, recoil can take a toll on you.

 

[dbateman]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

If there is any way to get any of your work back I am very interested in seeing it , I did not even know the hide existed back then ( wish I did I have learned so much here )


MontanaMarine has answered a few questions I asked him a wile ago and I thank him for taking time to answer them for me , I will have more soon I think

 

[nashlaw]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I had Jerry Newman build an '06 on a 700 with a 26" barrel. He throated it for.the 190's. I have not put 50 rounds through it. Very handsome rifle in its McMillan A2 in woodland camo. Got the stock from Longrangedog'r-- both he and Jerry made the build a pleasure.

 

[mdesign]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I must have joined after the start of the debate but I have followed Shane's work with different loads and barrel lengths. Very well done testing with results to prove it. The 30-06 is a great cartridge but I'm a little partial to the 7mm versions.

I learned a lot from Shane and he helped me get the hang of LR shooting and a few pieces of equipment I needed. Taught me a thing or two about load development as well. He's a great guy! Some very experienced people on the Hide that know what their doing.

 

[kevinchen912]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

great post

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I picked the 190 SMK and 30-06, and then built this rifle around it last summer.

14.5 pounds, 25" Krieger twisted 1:9.5, Win brass, H4350, CCI mag primers, 2750 fps.....yes, it does very VERY well.

 

[Johnny Sasaki]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

10 years ago I was 13....

 

[trailrider121]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I'm to see guys like USSR, MontanaMarine, and others keeping the 30-06 competitive. Its a great cartridge...

 

[mrhog]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

This came just when I was thinkinng about converting my old Rem.700 from the custom shop to a LR rifle. I'm thinking on rebarreling and a brake to make shooting it less painfull.
Anybody have a twist rate for the 190 and 208s?

 

[dbateman]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I think 1 in 10 is what a lot of the guys are using?

 

[mrhog]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman™</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think 1 in 10 is what a lot of the guys are using?

</div></div>
Thanks.......... Ant idea what rem. uses in their factory barrles?

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Had this built last year by William Roscoe. Krieger 1:10 and Manners T2 for heavies. Love the /06.

 

[longeyes]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

So how's about we start the discussions again---I'm shooting a 700 with a 26" hart barrel and a break using the 208s but looking for more ideas

 

[dbateman]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

^ how far have you been able to send the 208s out of the 26" ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Had this built last year by William Roscoe. Krieger 1:10 and Manners T2 for heavies. Love the /06. </div></div>

Nice looking stick what are the spec's ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrhog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman™</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think 1 in 10 is what a lot of the guys are using?

</div></div>
Thanks.......... Ant idea what rem. uses in their factory barrles? </div></div>

I know some are a 10 twist from the factory but I can't say for sure.

 

[herr.baer]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I run a 200gn SMK out of my .06

 

[longeyes]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

^ how far have you been able to send the 208s out of the 26" ?
My longest hit is 1180yds---hit 3 out of 10 on a 20inch target

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I'm shooting the 208 AMax, 2720 fps from 22.5" bbl.

Was at a shoot last weekend in NE MT, had no problem hitting approx 20" diameter round steel at 1500 yards, after a couple adjustments. Winds were 15-30 mph from 8 oclock. Elevation was 2900'.

In mild conditions, I've shot rocks (roughly 1-2 moa in size) out to a mile+ at elevations in the 4500-5000' range.

I have a few boxes of the Hornady 225gr BTHP on hand and I'll be shooting some of them this summer. Preliminary results with the 225gr (moly'd) are 2620 fps via 54gr RL17, in the 22.5" bbl, and .6 moa accuracy with about 4500 rounds through this bbl.

Hornady says the 225gr has a BC of .670, but my results out to 1200 yards indicates a BC of .710 or so. Looks promising.

 

[longeyes]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

out to 1500---very nice.
I haven't had the chance to reach out farther yet.
I will definitely be waiting to hear how the 225's work out for you.
been thinking about trying moly'd bullets---any tips on how to get started would be apreciated

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Moly is easy. I just dump a couple boxes of bullets in the tumbler along with about 1/4 tsp of the moly powder and let it run for an hour or so.

You'll want a dedicated moly bowl for the tumbler, it will get really covered in the stuff.

 

[longeyes]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Sounds almost too easy--thanks

 

[LOBO]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I'm still here with both my 30-06's. They both have 1/12" barrels. I started out with the 175 gr SMK & H4350. The farthest I have shot is to 1000 with that combo. It did great out of both my hunting rig and my long range rig. Before I got sick I had settled on 150 gr TSX's over RL-15 for the hunting rigs load. I had also swapped the long range rigs load to 155 gr Scenars over RL-15. This load had proven itself to 600 yds but my illness has kept me from testing it any further. When I'm able to go shoot again, I'd like to see if these 1/12" barrels will stabilize the 208 gr A-Max.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">"Hunting" 30-06 1/12" Hart #5 contour @ 26"</span>

<span style="text-decoration: underline">"Long Range" 30-06 1/12" Broughton 5C 7.4 LV contour @ 28"</span>

 

[dbateman]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Need more 30-06.

 

[Surffshr]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman™</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Need more 30-06.


</div></div>

+1

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I've had 06 on the brain for some time now as a tac rig. I'd leap on a good one. For those of you dabbling in it...What's the availability of decent factory match ammo?

 

[cypriss32]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

I had a few 30-06s

I sold them thow

Now I am building a new one. If my T3 doesnt sell its going in that stock. If it does ill be using a A1-3 with Med Palma fluted. 25"

 

[battlestick]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Here is mine. She is in pieces now at the smith. Can't wait to get her back, it is depressing being without.

 

[trailrider121]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

My Marlin XL7 30-06, weighs in at 11.8 lbs. It's my Long range, and hunting rig. I plan on working with some 208's soon.

 

[BrigandActual]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

The capabilities of the '06 is something I've been trying to learn more and more about these last few months. I've followed a lot of the discussions by the OP and Montana Marine with great interest.

I have a Garand now, and two .308s. I've thought I was settled on a 30-06 for the next gun for all the reasons cited above, but the the 6.5x55 just keeps coming back into the equation.

 

[aegis305]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

My good friend German Salazar (Triple Distinguished in highpower, pistol and small bore) has done a lot of competitive shooting and testing with the 30-06. He has some really interesting articles on his blog at www.riflemansjournal.blogspot.com

You guys may enjoy them.

 

[cypriss32]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shoot1K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My good friend German Salazar (Triple Distinguished in highpower, pistol and small bore) has done a lot of competitive shooting and testing with the 30-06. He has some really interesting articles on his blog at www.riflemansjournal.blogspot.com

You guys may enjoy them. </div></div>

Good read.... Thanks.

 

[campx]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

Sooooooooo.......what IS the magic load that will push a 190grainer do 2900?!?! I am intrigued.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: Remember the Great .30-06 Debate 10 Years Ago?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Red_SC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good to see you back Don, I remember those discussions well.</div></div>

Caused me to pick up an -06 back in the day, but since have sold off for other projects. Great discussions.