Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaws

[Jgoodley01]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

I would like to bring everyones attention to one peice of that video. I am refering to the part where the "police sniper" from portland maine is firing a rem700 prone. If you listen closely at the begining of it you can here them proclaim now its "working again" before cycling the weapon 2 times and firing 2 shots normally. On the "third" watch closely....he has cycled the weapon, loaded a live round and pulled the trigger, but the weapon does not fire. He proclaims "no fire" and removes his finger from the trigger. This as we all know is a HANG FIRE, which can and will happen to any rifle. This is usually not a flawed product, but more than likely a very dirty one.... causing the firing pin to hang. He jiggles the bolt all the while the trigger has already been pulled and amazingly the rifle fires. (by the way the rounds he is feeding into that particular rifle are being picked up out of the dirt) Hmmmm.....as a professional aircraft mechanic and hobby gunsmith I can see exactly how that particular incident took place. 1. Dirty rifle, has not been properly maintained and cleaned. 2. Making the situation worse by continuing to fire a dirty rifle that exibits a problem, and introducing more dirt by feeding it amunition from the ground. 3. The trigger is pulled. 4. The "sear" in the trigger drops and allows the firing pin to slightly move forward and hang. 5. When releasing the trigger the sear is unable to return to its normal position infront of the cocking peice, this is what holds the firing pin back. 6. Jiggle the bolt, the firing pin unsticks and viola....strikes the primer....we all know the end of this story.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

I just read the article on CNBC and I love this series of quotes:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gus’ mother, Barbara Barber, had been unloading her rifle and later said she was certain her finger was not on the trigger when the gun suddenly fired.</div></div>

So her unloaded firearm discharged on its own killing her son, then the article says,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Within days of the accident, Barber began hearing about other incidents in which Remington 700s inadvertently went off.</div></div>

Funny how we can deflect our guilt to something other than "ourselves" , because she could have never have killed her son, it was the inanimate object that did it.

I think this exchange says it all... I won't even go into the countless procession of fools who lighten their trigger pull weight to levels that cause 99% of the problems they encounter.

 

[GuyCoker]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

I would like a better diagram showing the issue. They showed a verry short clip on what happened but I didn't catch it. I would really like to know a bit more about the mechanical issue not so much not so much about the law suits. You should be able to look at the design and decide if it has a issue or not. They kind of left it open to question.

 

[Jgoodley01]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

BTW i have a competition benchrest rifle with an action that is a custom clone of a 700. The trigger is 2.5 OUNCES...jewl of course. AND IF YOU SLAM THE BOLT CLOSED.......IT WILL GO OFF. I am POSITIVE that if it had a 3lb trigger that would not happen.

 

[Hummer]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

As indicated I have nine of them. I carry one when me and dog are out walking our seven mile circuit in case I get a shot at a coyote. I have known about the problem for years and for that reason I got four in the mag and carry on empty chamber.

I did a Ruger 77 for a good friend and he wanted a good trigger so I worked him up a good safe trigger but gave it back to him with no tang safety. I told him his new safety was keep the bolt open till ready to shoot. When he felt how good it was he was very happy and then a few months later wasn't. His old lady split on him and took all his guns with her and burned the house down. Losing that Ruger was what pissed him off the most as he said it was the best shooter he had. She wasn't bad looking either so if any of you guys run up on a good looker and she has a Ruger 77 with no tang safety that feels good it was from my buddy. He is dead now so it is a moot point. But remember don't get her irritated at you haha.

 

[Country DeVil]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

I am so excited about this.
I was thinking about a new trigger for my 700 and now my wife insists on me getting one. now all I have to do is decide which one to get, any suggestions?

 

[wfjames22]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaws

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Sad really, not funny. It is sad that it has become such a well known problem, that it is accepted that the safety MAY perform the function of primary fire control. We are ok with the fact that the rifle MAY fire when the safety is released even though that is not its intended function!?!? <span style="font-weight: bold">Seriously, what other rifles are doing this??</span>
Dave </div></div>

I had it happen on a buddy's dad's Dakota 22-250 about 15 years ago. Squeezed the trigger not realizing the safety was still on, realized it, picked my head up and pushed the safety to fire....BOOM! Scared the shit out of both of us (he was at the bench sitting beside me watching). We were 16 yrs old and it reinforced a lot of the firearms safety instruction that we had been receiving from our fathers since we were old enough to hold guns and shoot. It was a long time ago and the only Dakota I have ever handled, but it seems like it had a model 70 action. I could definitely be wrong on that though, he sent the gun back to Dakota to be fixed and I havent seen it since.

 

[liberty_man]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaws

I have a 700 5R and self adjusted the trigger by knocking off the sealant drop on the screw. That turned the rifle into a very different and improved gun. The drop is crisp and light. That said, I know enough that I never chamber a round until I am ready to shoot and the only safety I use is having the bolt open and the chamber empty. I own a SAKO too and handle it the very same way, no bolt closing until I am in position to aim and fire. My Rem has never let me down and I love it. It is popular for a good reason, it shoots great and is reliable. The shooter is always responsible for what happens with the gun and handling is everything.

 

[hognuts]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just read the article on CNBC and I love this series of quotes:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gus’ mother, Barbara Barber, had been unloading her rifle and later said she was certain her finger was not on the trigger when the gun suddenly fired.</div></div>

So her unloaded firearm discharged on its own killing her son, then the article says,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Within days of the accident, Barber began hearing about other incidents in which Remington 700s inadvertently went off.</div></div>


I think this exchange says it all... I won't even go into the countless procession of fools who lighten their trigger pull weight to levels that cause 99% of the problems they encounter. </div></div>

This is one of the few posts that I have put up on your site, I have mostly just come here to read and learn from others on the site. This will be my last, but I wanted to say my peice. <span style="text-decoration: underline"> I think that your statement here is cruel, rude, and pointed</span> at the people involved because of some of <span style="font-weight: bold">your PETTY ass disagreements</span> that have occurred on other threads. You are a jackass! shooting skills and knowledge be dammed!
Funny how we can deflect our guilt to something other than "ourselves" , because she could have never have killed her son, it was the inanimate object that did it.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hognuts</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just read the article on CNBC and I love this series of quotes:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gus’ mother, Barbara Barber, had been unloading her rifle and later said she was certain her finger was not on the trigger when the gun suddenly fired.</div></div>

So her unloaded firearm discharged on its own killing her son, then the article says,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Within days of the accident, Barber began hearing about other incidents in which Remington 700s inadvertently went off.</div></div>

This is one of the few posts that I have put up on your site, I have mostly just come here to read and learn from others on the site. This will be my last, but I wanted to say my peice. I think that your statement here is cruel, rude, and pointed at the people involved because of some of your PETTY ass disagreements that have occurred on other threads. You are a jackass! shooting skills and knowledge be dammed!
Funny how we can deflect our guilt to something other than "ourselves" , because she could have never have killed her son, it was the inanimate object that did it.

I think this exchange says it all... I won't even go into the countless procession of fools who lighten their trigger pull weight to levels that cause 99% of the problems they encounter. </div></div> </div></div>
It is easier to differentiate your post if you type it outside of the quote box.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

I fixed it for him, he was yelling at me for being cruel and unusual because I don't believe an unloaded firearm discharged on its own.

I have seen plenty of firearms malfunction, the screws will back out, the triggers not adjusted properly, or them just not work because of dirt and debris in the mechanism -- but I have never seen an unloaded firearm --- fire.

What I have seen is people have their fingers on the trigger while manipulating the firearm causing it to discharge. I have seen people with a round in the chamber, finger on the trigger, lift the rifle up, pull the magazine down and fire, with shock on their faces.

People hit the triggers all the time -- does it make it the weapons fault.

 

[hypertex]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaws

It happened on my Snipetac. After several hundred rounds, one of the loctite'd screws on 'my' Remingoton trigger loosened up. I was dropping into position behind the rifle, while on my knees, I closed the bolt handle and BANG! According to JBM, that round came down around 8000 meters away. Never even got to pull the trigger on a target that day.

 

[hognuts]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fixed it for him, he was yelling at me for being cruel and unusual because I don't believe an unloaded firearm discharged on its own.

I have seen plenty of firearms malfunction, the screws will back out, the triggers not adjusted properly, or them just not work because of dirt and debris in the mechanism -- but I have never seen an unloaded firearm --- fire.

What I have seen is people have their fingers on the trigger while manipulating the firearm causing it to discharge. I have seen people with a round in the chamber, finger on the trigger, lift the rifle up, pull the magazine down and fire, with shock on their faces.

People hit the triggers all the time -- does it make it the weapons fault. </div></div>

Ok. THIS is my last post....I promise, if I am not already booted....First of all you must not have actually watched the program on CNBC, or read the article very carefully...I watched it in its entirety twice...It DID NOT say an unloaded firearm went off, it said that in the process of her unloading it in order to open the bolt she had released the safety and the firearm went off...her son had been beside her when she started the process and had moved around behind the horse trailer that she was using as a backstop to point the rifle at and when she clicked the safety off and the round discharged (not an unloaded rifle you tool!) her son was struck by the discharged round. I think you should read your little saying that you put under your posts and think about it for a second......Hognuts out.

 

[sillykak]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jgoodley01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to bring everyones attention to one peice of that video. I am refering to the part where the "police sniper" from portland maine is firing a rem700 prone. If you listen closely at the begining of it you can here them proclaim now its "working again" before cycling the weapon 2 times and firing 2 shots normally. On the "third" watch closely....he has cycled the weapon, loaded a live round and pulled the trigger, but the weapon does not fire. He proclaims "no fire" and removes his finger from the trigger. This as we all know is a HANG FIRE, which can and will happen to any rifle. This is usually not a flawed product, but more than likely a very dirty one.... causing the firing pin to hang. He jiggles the bolt all the while the trigger has already been pulled and amazingly the rifle fires. (by the way the rounds he is feeding into that particular rifle are being picked up out of the dirt) Hmmmm.....as a professional aircraft mechanic and hobby gunsmith I can see exactly how that particular incident took place. 1. Dirty rifle, has not been properly maintained and cleaned. 2. Making the situation worse by continuing to fire a dirty rifle that exibits a problem, and introducing more dirt by feeding it amunition from the ground. 3. The trigger is pulled. 4. The "sear" in the trigger drops and allows the firing pin to slightly move forward and hang. 5. When releasing the trigger the sear is unable to return to its normal position infront of the cocking peice, this is what holds the firing pin back. 6. Jiggle the bolt, the firing pin unsticks and viola....strikes the primer....we all know the end of this story. </div></div> I too noticed this and hopefully the firearms community will also. However I doubt the general public will. Along with this did anyone notice the plug for a government safety board as an over watch. (this was in the segment referring to the cross bow recall and toys) At least the father of deceased son did recognize this might allow for lawmakers to impose safety solutions so extreme they would be unrealistic. I am kind of surprised CNBC didn't edit that out.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

Whatever Hognuts, I quoted the article exactly...

it's a good thing this is your last post, I just checked 3 of my Remingtons, since when do you have to take it off safe to open the bolt ?

So, not only was she wrong, you're wrong too... I just ran the bolts, put them on safe and you know what the bolts open.

So, PA LEEZE -- don't tell me how it happens.

 

[762frmafr]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

the rifle should have been pointed at the ground anyway....remember the saying....do not point a weapon at anything you do not plan to destroy....why would she want to destroy her horse trailer?

 

[sillykak]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whatever Hognuts, I quoted the article exactly...

it's a good thing this is your last post, I just checked 3 of my Remingtons, since when do you have to take it off safe to open the bolt ?

So, not only was she wrong, you're wrong too... I just ran the bolts, put them on safe and you know what the bolts open.

So, PA LEEZE -- don't tell me how it happens. </div></div> remington removed the bolt lock feature in 1982. If she was shooting a pre 82 gun then she possibly did have to set the gun fire. I do not know though if safe=bolt lock and fire=bolt manipulation only or if there was a 3rd position like the mauser. I guess thats the question.

 

[Mr blasty]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

How about rules 1, 2 and 3? If the bitch followed them her son would still be alive! If the 4 rules are followed properly then there isn't really a way a person can be killed on accident.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
it's a good thing this is your last post, I just checked 3 of my Remingtons, since when do you have to take it off safe to open the bolt ?

</div></div>

I don't know the exact year they switched, but the earlier triggers had a bolt lock that prevented the bolt from opening with the safety on.

I don't know if that was the situation in this case, but is is possible.

ETA:
Apparently 82 was the year according to above.

If her trigger has the glue removed from the screws, I don't see how this is an issue for Remington at all. They just have the deepest pockets.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

If it was old, and if so what were the odds they did any maintenance on the rifle or the trigger... again, operator error if she happened to have an older model and didn't insure it was in proper working order.

Having a firearm and flying on auto pilot is still the fault of the owner.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

If it isn't the rifles fault, she will have to accept responsibility for shooting her kid.

 

[Tomcat088]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the-conservator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">remington removed the bolt lock feature in 1982. If she was shooting a pre 82 gun then she possibly did have to set the gun fire. I do not know though if safe=bolt lock and fire=bolt manipulation only or if there was a 3rd position like the mauser. I guess thats the question. </div></div>

I'm not supporting hognuts or whatever his position is. I'm merely coming in to verify what The Conservator said. On older rifles (pre '82 I guess), you DID have to push the rifle to safety in order to open the bolt. I built a custom on an old Remington 700 action 2 years ago, and that's exactly how it was. There is NOT a third position like a mauser, only 2 positions (Safe and Fire). The trigger that I replaced the old style with didn't have the safety on it, so the safety had to be removed from the old one. I chose NOT to add the extra little piece of metal that causes the bolt to lock when on safety. I much prefer being able to run my bolt while on safe. One of my buddy's dad's was building a rifle on a newer action and WANTED the feature for his rifle because it was just like the one he grew up with. So I gave him the little metal piece so that his bolt would be locked while on safety.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it isn't the rifles fault, she will have to accept responsibility for shooting her kid.</div></div>

That is what I said and I was called cruel... if this happened 10 years ago and the rifle was pre-82... with this bolt safety, then how much use did it get before this happened ? Clearly if it happened in 2000, and this was changed in 82, they had to have some time behind it.

I bet her finger was on the trigger and she released the safety, seen it before.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

Your way just didn't sound as nice.

 

[RomanDad]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whatever Hognuts, I quoted the article exactly...

it's a good thing this is your last post, I just checked 3 of my Remingtons, since when do you have to take it off safe to open the bolt ?

So, not only was she wrong, you're wrong too... I just ran the bolts, put them on safe and you know what the bolts open.

So, PA LEEZE -- don't tell me how it happens. </div></div>

Removing the Bolt lock was Remington's first fix for the problem... They put it on all new 700 rifles. They didnt recall the existing guns, although for twenty dollars they would make the fix. Most owners never knew there was any issue, or such a fix was available/ prudent.

Her gun was an older model that still had the bolt lock. It made it so the gun could not be unloaded except with the safety in the fire position. Add that to the videos showing the guns going off as the safety was moved from safe to fire without ANYTHING near the trigger, and Remington has a serious problem on their hands.

 

[Tomcat088]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it isn't the rifles fault, she will have to accept responsibility for shooting her kid.</div></div>

That is what I said and I was called cruel... if this happened 10 years ago and the rifle was pre-82... with this bolt safety, then how much use did it get before this happened ? Clearly if it happened in 2000, and this was changed in 82, they had to have some time behind it.

I bet her finger was on the trigger and she released the safety, seen it before. </div></div>

Most likely had some trigger time behind the rifle. Could have been filthy, rusted, who knows since lots of people don't take care of their equipment. They also might have modified the trigger, or bought the rifle used and someone else modified the trigger. There's really no telling, but either way, the error was on her for not watching the muzzle.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

I have two older Remington 700s. Not sure how old one is, but I got my 223 varment in 1977. You cant open the bolt with the safety in the locked position.

I hardly ever use the safety. I've never felt the need to carry a round in the chamber. When hunting, I can drop into position to shoot, and it takes me a pair of seconds to work the bolt.

In shooting HP, I've seen a lot of people touch off a round while going from standing to sitting or prone (rapid fire). Of course they all say their finger wasn't on the trigger but I know damn well the got excited and touched off around getting into postition. That's the reason CMP & the NRA now requires you to drop into postition prior to chambering a round.

Anyway, accident or not, no bullet ever hit a person if the mussle wann't pointed at that person, even if there was a horse trailer between the muzzle and person. No rifle with an empty chamber ever fired even if the hammer fell.

What really puzzled me was the reporter buying a rifle from Cabala's..........ok.........and. There was nothing mentioned about the gun after he walked out of the store. I bet if it missfired, something would have been said.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

It is clearly a tragedy for the family, no questioning that. It's the worse possible thing ever... but when people ND they are so surprised they don't know what they did. was her finger on the trigger, she can't say, it happened too fast and immediately everything went wrong. Clearly she failed to follow the firearm safety rules, which is your first line of safety, it's only gets worse after that.

usually when the triggers start to go south that cause them to fire when you close the bolt, or take it off safe, there are warning signs. # 1 the rifle usually doesn't cock the first time you close the bolt it will require you lift the handle again to cock it. There are normally clues that something is wrong.

Problem is, if the trigger was adjusted, fault could lie there, if it was indeed more than 18 years old at the time, you have to ask what kind of maintenance was done, all these things add up to owner responsibility.

Hate me for, but it is how I see these things.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have two older Remington 700s. Not sure how old one is, but I got my 223 varment in 1977. You cant open the bolt with the safety in the locked position.
.</div></div>

Good thing you dinosaurs are around here, none of us new guys ever saw one.

 

[ubet]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

A good friend of mine was close with the family. Remington paid for her flight back to their HQ, took her on the top floor and the president of the company told her to name her price and sign a non disclosure agreement. I have no dog in this fight, just wanted to help shine a light on the situation, I didnt see the show though cause I dont have TV.

 

[wildnv]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaws

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm sure I don't make the trigger as light as it can be but my rifles are safe. Now... that said, I don't mess with a trigger if it's already decent or I can't find a diagram to study.

Personally, I take adjusting a trigger VERY SERIOUSLY and would never recommend it to anyone... and would NEVER adjust someone elses trigger. Unfortunately, not everyone is like me in this regard. </div></div>

When I was a kid my dad was a gun smith and owned a small gun shop. He would get Remington's in all the time that would fire when the safety was flipped off . Every one I had ever seen had the trigger improperly adjusted. The people did not take it as seriously as onekill. I have also seen allot of revolvers that would go off if you touched the cocked hammer.

That being said The number one rule in Nevada hunter safety is "KEEP THE MUZZLE POINTED. IN A SAFE DIRECTION" I know is some places that is rule number 2. If the MSNBC video makes people thank of about the direction the gun is pointed maybe we will all be a little safer.

 

[DirtyRod]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaws

A couple responses from Remington. May have to go to Top Stories on the 2nd link.

http://m.remington700.tv/

http://www.nranews.com/#/nranews/Vid...20Schauble.xml

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

This is mostly crap on remington i adjust a lot of rem triggers and fix triggers that others have played with and stuffed up because they try to make the trigger to light with the factory spring. The reason a rem trigger will over ride the sear when held verticaly is because someone has lightened the trigger pressure spring so it does not return the trigger any more it is actualy floating. if you hold the rifle horozontaly the weight of the trigger leaver resets it but then hold it verticaly the force of gravity holds the trigger leaver back and it will not engage the sear making the rifle cam over. This is not a design fault it is a user fault. The person that said no other rifle has a similar trigger is wrong sorry there are a lot of other trigges out there with a top sear that is along the same lines.

It all comes down to the end user screwing with a trigger that they dont know how to. before people say all the crap about a Win Model70 being the safest every model70 that we get in that has been used a lot can not have the safety engaged because the trigger sears wear and the safety will not engage so you have to file the cutout further to give the required clearence again.

Also if you pull the trigger on a rifle while the safety is on sometimes when they are incorrectly adjusted they will fire when it is released. It all comes down to triger adjustments not the actual design there are a lot of other triggers including Sako's and Tikkas that have this problem i have fixed them aswell so the euro rifles are not immune either.

I hope this crap does not keep going as it is just a war against legal firearms ownership.
The safety on a Jewell is slightly different as it blocks the sear inside the trigger housing and is very safe as you would have to break the sear by hitting the cocking piece extremly hard to make the rifle fire but if you leave the bolt forward but not cammed shut the rifle should be in a safe position. But here in Australia there was a guy on my range that never maintained his rifle went to close the bolt on a round after hammering the other rounds into the chamber with his hand the firing pin snapped before the bolt was closed so the round fired and sent the bolt rearward very fast and the cheek piece tore his cheek open and he nearly lost his eye. he had not ever done the maintnance and was treating the rifle badly with bad ammo and an accident happened.

 

[bowslngr]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

You guys can love your Remingtons all you want. I have not owned one since I was a kid, and they will never get any more of my money. There are plenty of other options out there coming from manufacturers that seem to care a lot more about safety.
Remington knew there was a problem and they were too cheap to fix it.

 

[btrapr]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

I have owned and shot a variety of Rem 700's starting back in 1982...

NEVER had a slam/misfire! Again ajusting the tirgger should be doine by a gunsmith if you do not know what you're doing...

 

[hula]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

My understanding after watching the special was the gentleman who designed the trigger for the 700 stated there was an undesireable trait with the safety mechanism on the 700 trigger, and the quality control check that he instituted while at Remington was eventually discontinued after he left. Did you happen to notice the guy heading all this up who's son was tragically killed? He was wearing an ASA (American Sniper Assoc.) cap and showed him reloading his own ammo. He also appeared to be a knowlegeable individual about weapons and still shoots and owns Remington 700s which were custom long range weapons. He also stated he didn't want to take this to the point where the government would make weapons so safe they wouldn't even fire. The TV report never went into whether or not there were any modifications on the rifle in question. I feel like alot of these incidents were due to poor weapon maintanence and poor weapon handling, but it could all be multifactorial. I own R700 based weapons and will continue to shoot them.

 

[rsilvers]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

sorry, double post

 

[Bloody_Tailgate]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hula</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The TV report never went into whether or not there were any modifications on the rifle in question. I feel like alot of these incidents were due to poor weapon maintenance and poor weapon handling.</div></div>

This story was so one-sided that with the same research and reporting "skills" one could portray the Pope as a horrible, careless human being. Never once was there a question about modifications. I can at will with a allen wrench make any model 700 replicate the "misfires" they are reporting on. The only one that I could not produce is the hang fire the "sniper" in Maine encountered but then like others have said that instance is likely a dirty bolt.

They took 5-10 words out of internal Remington documents and made accusations toward their intentions. When they said that the fix for the problem would cost 5.5cents they never actually showed any of the text around that figure. Who the hell knows if that figure was really concerning fixing the trigger?

Then they take snippets of an interview with a 90+ year old man arrange them in an order that suits their argument. Is that the way he said them or did the way they showed his interview actually get the message across that he meant it to? Who knows? Again they only let us hear what <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">they</span></span> wanted us to hear and how <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">they</span></span> wanted us to hear it.

I have owned a model 721 since I was 14, it has the old firing control mechanism that forces you to take the safety off before you can lift the bolt. I have never had a problem but the rifle is maintained and the trigger is unmolested.

 

[samnev]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

IIRC this is not the first time this story has come up. Quite a few years ago the same problem with the Remmy 700 safety /trigger problem surfaced with much todo, then quietly died. I have owned several 700's and have many friends who also own them. I have never heard of a single incident of this problem occuring.

 

[subdued]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

isn't it funny that they talked about Remington knowing that there was a problem with the 700 as far back as 1948 but the 700 wasn't sold until 1962. now i realize that there is an r&d phase that can take a while but the context in which they put it in is awful shady.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: subdued</div><div class="ubbcode-body">isn't it funny that they talked about Remington knowing that there was a problem with the 700 as far back as 1948 but the 700 wasn't sold until 1962. now i realize that there is an r&d phase that can take a while but the context in which they put it in is awful shady.</div></div>

Part of the problem is the mistake I made, they said 700 we think R700 but it is really the series to include rifles we don't use necessarily. Triggers are similiiar but not all the same.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: subdued</div><div class="ubbcode-body">isn't it funny that they talked about Remington knowing that there was a problem with the 700 as far back as 1948 but the 700 wasn't sold until 1962. now i realize that there is an r&d phase that can take a while but the context in which they put it in is awful shady. </div></div>

The part in question is the Remington-Walker-Haskell Trigger which was patented in 1948. This same trigger was used on Remington's Model's 721/722/725/700/600/40.

To be clear, the problem part is the floating trigger connector, as designed by Walker, not the Remington 700 action or the safety per say. If you will read Remington's own internal documents, the faulty triggers (trick triggers they call them) effect somewhat less than 1% of all Remington 7xx series rifles. But that less than 1% may represent up to 30,000 rifles.

So it is possible for someone to have owned 10-20 or 30 Remington 7xx rifles, and NEVER experienced any problem.

The correct answer to this problem is to: 1) always keep your muzzle pointed in a safe direction regards of which Remington 7xx trigger you use, and if your so inclined 2) to replace the original Remington 700 trigger (pre-Mk X), with one that does not utilize a floating connector, i.e. Timney, Shilen, Jewel, among others.

The Remington 7xx action is NOT unsafe, but the Remington-Walker trigger may be in some cases (less than 1% of Remington's sample).

Bob

 

[wildnv]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

This is what I learned from watching it

1. Remington came up with the rule "keep your muzzle pointed in a safe direction" To cover their butts

2. From the gun expert that has his finger on the trigger with the bolt closed "It is not possible to keep your gun pointed in a safe direction"

3 We need to change the second amendment so government can take all are unsafe guns.

4. Mike Walker believed the trigger was designed wrong & Remington would put profit above safety. Until they asked him in person he had a much different answer.

5. The Remington 700 came out in 1948

 

[renegadelizard]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hognuts</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I fixed it for him, he was yelling at me for being cruel and unusual because I don't believe an unloaded firearm discharged on its own.

I have seen plenty of firearms malfunction, the screws will back out, the triggers not adjusted properly, or them just not work because of dirt and debris in the mechanism -- but I have never seen an unloaded firearm --- fire.

What I have seen is people have their fingers on the trigger while manipulating the firearm causing it to discharge. I have seen people with a round in the chamber, finger on the trigger, lift the rifle up, pull the magazine down and fire, with shock on their faces.

People hit the triggers all the time -- does it make it the weapons fault. </div></div>

Ok. THIS is my last post....I promise, if I am not already booted....First of all you must not have actually watched the program on CNBC, or read the article very carefully...I watched it in its entirety twice...It DID NOT say an unloaded firearm went off, it said that in the process of her unloading it in order to open the bolt she had released the safety and the firearm went off...her son had been beside her when she started the process and had moved around behind the horse trailer that she was using as a backstop to point the rifle at and when she clicked the safety off and the round discharged (not an unloaded rifle you tool!) her son was struck by the discharged round. I think you should read your little saying that you put under your posts and think about it for a second......Hognuts out. </div></div>

Since when did a horse trailer become a safe backstop?

 

[renegadelizard]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jgoodley01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to bring everyones attention to one peice of that video. I am refering to the part where the "police sniper" from portland maine is firing a rem700 prone. If you listen closely at the begining of it you can here them proclaim now its "working again" before cycling the weapon 2 times and firing 2 shots normally. On the "third" watch closely....he has cycled the weapon, loaded a live round and pulled the trigger, but the weapon does not fire. He proclaims "no fire" and removes his finger from the trigger. This as we all know is a HANG FIRE, which can and will happen to any rifle. This is usually not a flawed product, but more than likely a very dirty one.... causing the firing pin to hang. He jiggles the bolt all the while the trigger has already been pulled and amazingly the rifle fires. (by the way the rounds he is feeding into that particular rifle are being picked up out of the dirt) Hmmmm.....as a professional aircraft mechanic and hobby gunsmith I can see exactly how that particular incident took place. 1. Dirty rifle, has not been properly maintained and cleaned. 2. Making the situation worse by continuing to fire a dirty rifle that exibits a problem, and introducing more dirt by feeding it amunition from the ground. 3. The trigger is pulled. 4. The "sear" in the trigger drops and allows the firing pin to slightly move forward and hang. 5. When releasing the trigger the sear is unable to return to its normal position infront of the cocking peice, this is what holds the firing pin back. 6. Jiggle the bolt, the firing pin unsticks and viola....strikes the primer....we all know the end of this story. </div></div>

+1

I caught it...it seems some people out there assume we are all idiots...are there no pro-gun rich guys out there that want to start there own news channels?..

 

[Badshot308]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

Excellent idea, let's ask Ted Nugent to start his own news service!

 

[jakhamr81]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaw

Things break, designs fail. That is why I was taught very early on to never trust the safety. I don't doubt that the 700 in the main story went off without the trigger being pulled, that is simply a horrible tragedy, but one that could have been avoided by knowing what lies beyond your target (or backstop). While the story was very one sided I did take a valuable reminder, that it only takes one second for something to go horrible wrong.

 

[King-Kong]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaws

I would bet my money that those triggers were badly tuned/mainteined. Or more then likely it was operators error.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fx1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im Sorry but all my Sako triggers never get this problem and i have them turned as light as they will go.

The remmington 700 is an American fascination and in my opinion a low quality gun. i wouldnt spend a £ on one ever.

The design doesnt come close to the winchester 70 which in fact is a european design based on a Mauser. Same with Tikka, and Sako.

i have never heard of unintended discharge or bolt handles snapping off those guns. </div></div>

Well i have heard many "unintended" discharge whit Sako (rk-62 and rk-95 specially) as well whit Tikka/mauser.

But i have never seen gun go off by it self. many times shooters are so focused on their target that they forgot trigger finger on the trigger.
These "unintendet" dishcharges usually hapens to new shooter who is tired and excited. heavy recoiling gun whit light trigger doesnt help at all! Specially if that trigger is tuned badly or mainteined badly.

 

[mnpatterson]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaws

Hello,

I do web work for Remington and wanted to make sure you are aware of our response to this. Check out http://www.remington700.tv

Hope this clears up any confusion out there.

Best,
Colleen

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Remington accused of 700 series dangerous flaws

Welcome to 20 years ago......

Why the hell did CNBC decide this was news this decade? Why report on this four years after Remington discontinued the trigger that the "Expose" attacks?

What is the ulterior motive?

Any of us who have been around firearms for more than a minute know to never point a weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot.

If you are holding a weapon, it discharges and kills someone YOU ARE AT FAULT. That's all there is to it folks.

Does the Walker Trigger have issues? Yep. Can they be prevented with proper maintenance? Yep. So what's the problem?

The problem is the scent of money.