Remington?

[wreckingball]

Hey guys
Im looking for a new rifle and was thinking about the Remington 700 VTR. Im trying to find 700 police but cannot seam to find it in canada. I done some research and it seams that the VTR and the SPS-DM are similar to the 700p.Is there anyone who can confirm or disagree with this statement.

What your opinions?
Wreck

 

[fdkay]

Re: Remington?

I'll jump in before someone else.
This has been covered before, try the search, or better yet, the Sh google search:
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=010955838166721108978:qcbx5qqy10o&hl=en

Now to answer your question.

The VTR is a gimmick and the triangular barrel does not work very well.
The 700P is nothing more than an SPS varmint in an H&S stock.

My recommendation would be to order a varmint or tactical SPS and install it in a bell and carlson stock. Either the BCS 1000 (m40 style) or the light tactical.

If you buy the standard SPS varmint with a 26" barrel and the B&C stock, you will save about 100 USD and probably end up with a better stock.

 

[YN*Dotte]

Re: Remington?

Avoid the VTR like the plague, get the sps varmint( same barrel as the 700P), then a B&C stock and you will be good to go, if you want detachable bottom metal then the Badger M5 or CDI( if you wanna save some money)

SPS varmint
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/41046

 

[fsu13]

Re: Remington?

Thats exactly what i done. I bought the sps varmit in .308 and installed the Timney 501 trigger. Then dropped it in a B&C m40 style stock. Shoots lights out!

 

[-Snyper-]

Re: Remington?

Same here, bought the sps varmint put it in B&C. Other than having to wait for the stock for 4 weeks, I'm pleased. Sub Moa all day long.

 

[Oddball Six]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The 700P is nothing more than an SPS varmint in an H&S stock.
</div></div>

It is actually an SPS barreled action which is then parkerized, placed in an H&S stock and test fired for accuracy.

The 700 police model rifles are guaranteed at 1MOA or better whereas the SPS technically has no accuracy guarantee. Which is not to say that if something were REALLY wrong with it, they would've fix it, just that there is no formal guarantee whereas the police models do have one.

 

[jeepwilson]

Re: Remington?

Yes I would agree with them as well.My son had a 26"barrel 22-250 SPS and that thing was deadly new.I told him to keep it but he thinks all guns shoot like that.He look back one day and realize.

 

[winxp_man]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The 700P is nothing more than an SPS varmint in an H&S stock.
</div></div>

It is actually an SPS barreled action which is then parkerized, placed in an H&S stock and test fired for accuracy.

The 700 police model rifles are guaranteed at 1MOA or better whereas the SPS technically has no accuracy guarantee. Which is not to say that if something were REALLY wrong with it, they would've fix it, just that there is no formal guarantee whereas the police models do have one.</div></div>

+1 this error is made often. The 700P is a little different then the SPS Varmint model.

 

[vman]

Re: Remington?

Buy the SPS and dont fall for the triangular barrel gimmick.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: winxp_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The 700P is nothing more than an SPS varmint in an H&S stock.
</div></div>

It is actually an SPS barreled action which is then parkerized, placed in an H&S stock and test fired for accuracy.

The 700 police model rifles are guaranteed at 1MOA or better whereas the SPS technically has no accuracy guarantee. Which is not to say that if something were REALLY wrong with it, they would've fix it, just that there is no formal guarantee whereas the police models do have one.</div></div>

+1 this error is made often. The 700P is a little different then the SPS Varmint model.
</div></div>

It is still the same action and barrel, just because it has a different cheap finish on it does not make it a different rifle.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Remington?

Well...the 700P I bought here on the hide was made in the 90's. According to the barrel code. Crown was dinged, so I recrowned it. Shoots in an inch at 400 yards. I couldn't be happier. JMHO

 

[Tacticalrum]

Re: Remington?

I have had very good luck with my sps .308, added the B&C stock and it shoots 3/4 moa in good conditions out to 850.

 

[bigbuckbandit]

Re: Remington?

I have a 700pltr and it shoots about .75 moa @100 with 168gr it is an older model and my buddy shoots the new aac sps in a b&c stokc his shoots .52 on average and his barrel is a 1/10 twist were mine is 1/12 twist. Mine is fluted his is not. I'd look at getting one of those. He is a better shot than me so I think they are very comparable but the sps is much cheaper.

 

[wreckingball]

Re: Remington?

Thanks for all your input once i get it to my liking ill post some bad ass pics

 

[wreckingball]

Re: Remington?

1 question about stocks?

is there a big difference between HS and BC stocks? what that main difference?

 

[JCH]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wreck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1 question about stocks?

is there a big difference between HS and BC stocks? what that main difference?</div></div>

Not in my opinion. The aluminum bedding block on the B&C helps it alot. The HS is a great stock as well. I would say it is all personal preference between the two.

 

[lennyo3034]

Re: Remington?

They both have full aluminum bedding blocks, they both are made of roughly the same material. The feel on the outside is a little different, and many HS stocks have a palm swell. They perform about the same, so its really your preferance on which one feels better for you.

 

[jbuck88]

Re: Remington?

I picked up a NIB 17FB VTR at the last gun show for a donor because it was cheaper then buying a action. I don't really care for the Triangle barrel but there is absolutly no muzzle rise at all. It is a pretty fun rifle to shoot. Killed a crow or two after sighting it in and it worked well. New 300BLK barrel is due any day now and it will be converted though.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wreck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1 question about stocks?

is there a big difference between HS and BC stocks? what that main difference? </div></div>

The finish I have seen on the B&Cs are better than H&S. I have also not seen the studs rip out of B&C like on the H&S.

I have not seen a H&S sectioned like the B&C so I don't know how far the aluminum extends. The B&C extends from the grip area almost all the way to the end of the forend.

 

[wreckingball]

Re: Remington?

Is there a big sacrifice with getting a 20" heavy barrel instead of the 26"

 

[ZULUTAC]

Re: Remington?

After many years as a SWAT Sniper, I would have to say you should stick with an SPS Tactical. I loved my LTRs I shot three of them over the years and each were well worth the $ on the part of the Department and the extra time getting used to them on my part.

I’ve seen a number of LTRs and SPS’ produce just as good as the AI’s , FN’s and other popular makes. Truly any Remington Tactical type is ready to go out of the box. Aside from the stock triggers, you can’t go wrong. Trust me. These guns will shot better than you.

I swore to myself that I’d never buy anything but an LTR as long as I live. Well I just got an SPS Tactical-AAC I can honestly say it’s even better than any of the LTR’s I’ve been around . It cost less, has a “REAL” heavy barrel and is threaded which works out great for the CAN I’m going to order. It also has an adjustable trigger. I’ve shot thousands of rounds through LTRs , AIs, FNs and on… go with the SPS Tactical.

 

[ZULUTAC]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wreck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a big sacrifice with getting a 20" heavy barrel instead of the 26" </div></div>

The first question is what are you wanting to do with the rifle? If you want to shoot regularly at 1K then yes a 26" is better. You'll have to see what the others say but I wouldn't trust a 20" Remington anything past 900yds. Some custom 20" barrels do better at 900 but not these.

If you are staying within 1K then don't waist time with the 26". Truly makes no difference on target within say 7-800yds, after that you start to see the Remington 20" destabilize. Once your at 900yds it's really up in the air.

If you are like most people and shooting within 300yrds or even 100yds then you would be greatly benefiting from less weight and easier mobility in the 20". If you're planning on competing, this can make a big difference too.

I love the 20"s. If I plan on shooting at 1k I'll use my 338LM.

 

[wreckingball]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SHAKAZULU</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wreck</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a big sacrifice with getting a 20" heavy barrel instead of the 26" </div></div>

The first question is what are you wanting to do with the rifle? If you want to shoot regularly at 1K then yes a 26" is better. You'll have to see what the others say but I wouldn't trust a 20" Remington anything past 900yds. Some custom 20" barrels do better at 900 but not these.

If you are staying within 1K then don't waist time with the 26". Truly makes no difference on target within say 7-800yds, after that you start to see the Remington 20" destabilize. Once your at 900yds it's really up in the air.

If you are like most people and shooting within 300yrds or even 100yds then you would be greatly benefiting from less weight and easier mobility in the 20". If you're planning on competing, this can make a big difference too.

I love the 20"s. If I plan on shooting at 1k I'll use my 338LM. </div></div>

Thanks for the input i was thinking of entering a F-class competition with a .308 but i guess ill just use my .338 lapua

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SHAKAZULU</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I’ve seen a number of LTRs and SPS’ produce just as good as the AI’s , FN’s and other popular makes. Truly any Remington Tactical type is ready to go out of the box. Aside from the stock triggers, you can’t go wrong. Trust me. These guns will shot better than you.</div></div>

I own a 700 SPS-V (restocked with a B&C), 700 SPS-T AAC-SD, AI AE MkII, and three 700 LTR's at work.

All were brand new when they came into my control.

First, the majority of the issue is shooter and not system. In no way is a factory 700 the equal of an AI. Not in construction, finish or accuracy. While some factory 700's may come close on some days with one or two groups, they do not offer the consistent performance from even the bottom end AI AE.

I honestly wish this wasn't the case. If I got my AE MkII and it did not perform better than the 700 SPS-V or SPS Tactical then I could have resold it and saved a TON of cash for ammo, match fees, training, etc.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SHAKAZULU</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I just got an SPS Tactical-AAC I can honestly say it’s even better than any of the LTR’s I’ve been around .</div></div>

I also have to disagree with this. The stock on the AAC-SD limits its accuracy to well below what a LTR is capable of. I am demonstrating this in the build series I am writing for 8541Tactical.com.

Now you may have just gotten some crappy LTR's. It happens. However all of ours routinely shoot under 3/4" groups at 100 yards. At least one of them has been able to come closer to 1/2" when I am on it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SHAKAZULU</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I’ve shot thousands of rounds through LTRs , AIs, FNs and on… go with the SPS Tactical.</div></div>

Anyone who would choose an SPS-Tactical over an AI needs their head examined. The SPS-Tactical is an excellent BUDGET rifle. Comparing "factory" to "factory" the SPS Tactical is a good option in it's PRICE RANGE. Once you add a couple hundred dollars to the pile you have options available that are more accurate.

If you don't NEED excellent accuracy and you have a budget you need to stick to, then the SPS Tactical is good to go. If you have the budget for an AI, don't buy an SPS Tactical because someone told you it's just as accurate as an AI.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SHAKAZULU</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I swore to myself that I’d never buy anything but an LTR as long as I live. </div></div>

This is actually a common issue. People get married to their choice. THEIR choice then becomes the choice they attempt to bestow on others. Their financial and emotional investment makes it a personal issue. I have to guard against it infecting my own opinion. I shoot and enjoy an AI I have spent a lot of money on. When I compare it to others I have to make sure I am doing so on a factual basis. Not an emotional one.

This is not a personal dig on you. It's just reality. The SPS-V, SPS-Tactical and SPS AAC-SD are EXCELLENT choices for the beginning shooter. They can be wonderful building blocks leading up to a full custom. The low price point allows you to spend more on glass, ammo and training. That will all make more of a difference in the shooter than an expensive rifle will. However if money is not a concern, then the SPS ceases to be a viable option.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SHAKAZULU</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The first question is what are you wanting to do with the rifle? If you want to shoot regularly at 1K then yes a 26" is better. You'll have to see what the others say but I wouldn't trust a 20" Remington anything past 900yds. Some custom 20" barrels do better at 900 but not these. </div></div>

When comparing factory match ammo, there is almost no difference in the 20" and 26" Remington barrels.

Bullet selection and load development is more important than an extra 6" of tube.

HOWEVER I do agree that if long range competition is the goal, then the 26" barrel is a better choice. You can take advantage of the extra volume with hotter loads. More speed means less wind drift.

 

[para38super]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[I also have to disagree with this. The stock on the AAC-SD limits its accuracy to well below what a LTR is capable of. I am demonstrating this in the build series I am writing for 8541Tactical.com.

Now you may have just gotten some crappy LTR's. It happens. However all of ours routinely shoot under 3/4" groups at 100 yards. At least one of them has been able to come closer to 1/2" when I am on it.
</div></div>
Care to clue us on how accurate the AAC-SD is? Are we talking about over an 1 moa?

 

[Kalman]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Para38super</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[I also have to disagree with this. The stock on the AAC-SD limits its accuracy to well below what a LTR is capable of. I am demonstrating this in the build series I am writing for 8541Tactical.com.

Now you may have just gotten some crappy LTR's. It happens. However all of ours routinely shoot under 3/4" groups at 100 yards. At least one of them has been able to come closer to 1/2" when I am on it.
</div></div>
Care to clue us on how accurate the AAC-SD is? Are we talking about over an 1 moa? </div></div>

I personally watched someone at my local range putting various handloads (mix of sub and supersonic, however w/o a can attached) down range on one. He was shooting 5 shot groups and the favorable ammo was coming in well under 1MOA @ 100 yards, with several different loads eyeballing around 1/2 MOA. His last group, he shot a 3 round group that was under 1/4 MOA and refused to take another shot at that group because it looked to pretty to mess up. It was in the original green/black swirl stock. Didn't think to look to see if he had done any extra work to make sure the barrel was free floating on him or not. All the reading I've done on the issue suggest it's pretty rifle dependent on how much clearance there is to start with. I've seen some stuff suggesting that stock was never inteded to be used with a barrel of that taper/diameter, but it is.

Lonewolf, if you are doing a write up on it, and you're willing I'd much appreciate it if you reworked the stock to completely free float the barrel and see how the stock does in that form compared to original, and then the aftermarket of your choice.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Para38super</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Care to clue us on how accurate the AAC-SD is? Are we talking about over an 1 moa? </div></div>

Initially it was hovering around 1-1.25" @ 100 yards. Then I realized that during zeroing the thread protector spun loose. Once I tightened it down it put the last group of 168 FGMM and 175gr Black Hills under 1".

This was not really an accuracy test. It was off a bipod in the stupid cold with a five pound trigger.

I have an issue I need to fix with the base being too long for the 10x. Then I am going to shoot some more video on scope mounting and zero.

I planned on just swapping out the Hogue un-molested, in hopes that I could sell it. However if there is enough demand, then I can hog out the forent tip and see if I can get it free floated. This wasn't possible on the SPS-V without heroic efforts to stiffen the stock. I may try to shim the stock first. That may work better and still leave the stock in a condition that someone would buy it.

The biggest problem is the company I had hoped would sponsor the ammo for the series hasn't gotten back to me. I can still run it with handloads, but I feel it looses some meaning.

 

[para38super]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Para38super</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Care to clue us on how accurate the AAC-SD is? Are we talking about over an 1 moa? </div></div>

Initially it was hovering around 1-1.25" @ 100 yards. Then I realized that during zeroing the thread protector spun loose. Once I tightened it down it put the last group of 168 FGMM and 175gr Black Hills under 1".

This was not really an accuracy test. It was off a bipod in the stupid cold with a five pound trigger.

I have an issue I need to fix with the base being too long for the 10x. Then I am going to shoot some more video on scope mounting and zero.

I planned on just swapping out the Hogue un-molested, in hopes that I could sell it. However if there is enough demand, then I can hog out the forent tip and see if I can get it free floated. This wasn't possible on the SPS-V without heroic efforts to stiffen the stock. I may try to shim the stock first. That may work better and still leave the stock in a condition that someone would buy it.

The biggest problem is the company I had hoped would sponsor the ammo for the series hasn't gotten back to me. I can still run it with handloads, but I feel it looses some meaning.

</div></div>
I can't wait till you start posting the videos of this process. I don't have funds to replace my stock so I might just work on the stock...

 

[winxp_man]

Re: Remington?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buy the SPS and dont fall for the triangular barrel gimmick.</div></div>

+1

As for stocks I would say its preference. Me personally I really like the palm swell on my HS stock.

 

[ZULUTAC]

Re: Remington?

Bro...

I'm thinking practical with a budget in mind. If I had the money for an AI I'd get one just to have. As you know it's shooter not system 9 time out of 10 especially with in a few hundred yards. So that being said out of the box Remington's are a much better investment for someone stating out, he will get all he needs and more plus have more cash to invest in some high quality glass.

I don't need my head examined I'm actually prioritizing. If I can do the job effectively for less than half the cost why waist my money?

I totally agree about the stock in the SPS. Totally. I hate the one in the LTR too. I change mine out for better ones. I truly don't think he will notice much until he's become more accustomed to accuracy with a long gun.

If I wonted a system to shoot consistent sub moa groups past 700 all the time... I'd invest up. I don't think that's what he was looking for. He just wants the best bang for his buck with above average accuracy.