Rifle Scopes Rifle Scopes: Tunneling Between Magnification Ranges

[Edsel]

Thanks to orkan for starting the original thread:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/235119-tunneling-heres-what-looks-like.html

If you didn't know... now you do. Rifle Scope Tunneling - YouTube

Since manufacturers do not list this feature / detractor when marketing their scopes, it would be a good idea to come up with a compilation on our own.

If possible, let's keep the thread limited to that and that alone; no brand biases, political views, my scope is better than your scope, or anything like that.

Just a list, for potential buyers to be made aware of their intended scope's characteristics.

Let's make it a list of scopes with and without this issue

 

[Edsel]

TUNNELING PRESENT

Hensoldt ZF 3-12x56mm SSG-P: tunneling between 3-4x, absent beyond that.
IOR 2.5-10x42mm: 2.5-4x
IOR 3-18x42: 3-4x
IOR 3.5-18x50mm: 3.5-4x
IOR 4.5-14x50mm SFP: 4.5-7x
Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56mm PM2: 5-7.25x
U.S. Optics SN-3 1.8-10x37mm: 1.8-2.25x
U.S. Optics SN-3 3.2-17x44mm: 3.2-5x

TUNNELING ABSENT

IOR 6-24x56mm (2012 model)
Kahles K624i Gen1 & 2 6-24x56mm
Leupold Mark4 3.5-10x40mm M3
Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56mm
Steiner 5-25x56mm (all Steiners?)
SWFA SS HD 5-20x50mm
Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50mm
Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24x56mm T*

 

[Edsel]

From binnerscot:

I'll add:

IOR 3.5-18x50: Tunnels just a bit from 3.5X to about 4X, absent after that.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Steiners don't tunnel.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[KUSA]

USO SN3 1.8 to 10. Tunnels from 2.25 down to 1.8. I wish it had the mechanical stop set at 2.25 power.

 

[orkan]

USO 3.2-17 tunnels up to 5X.

S&B 5-25 tunnels to 7.25X.

IOR 2.5-10 tunnels to 4X.

 

[orkan]

USO SN3 1.8 to 10. Tunnels from 2.25 down to 1.8. I wish it had the mechanical stop set at 2.25 power.

USO can do that. I had 3.2-17's made that stopped at 5X. I liked the 5-17 with no tunneling.

 

[Edsel]

Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm: no tunneling

 

[jeo556]

SS 5-20 HD. NO tunneling

 

[bigbear_98]

Does Nightforce?

 

[earthquake]

Steiners don't tunnel.

I can confirm that. My 5-25x Steiner did not tunnel. I've yet to own a scope that has, but I've only owned a few. Here's my meager list FWIW:

SWFA 5-20x = No.
Steiner 5-25x = No.
Vortex Razor 5-20x = No.
Leupold Mk-IV m3, 3.5-10x = No. (though I doubt it would with such small mag range)

 

[ZiaHunter]

S&B PMII 5-25x50 tunnels between 5x-7x. Never paid attention to it prior to looking at the video.

 

[orkan]

So are we making a list of scopes that tunnel, or scopes that don't tunnel? I'm confused.

 

[NoLegs24]

Just wanted you guys to take a look at the S-B 3-27x56. Pics were taking with iPhone
3x

5x

12x

20x

27x

 

[delixe]

Steiners don't tunnel.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

My 5-25 tunnels a tiny bit at 5x, but you really have to look for it.

I've always felt that the S&B 5-25 is a 7.5-25... let's face it, no one lowers magnification to decrease the size of viewed objects, they lower the mag to increase the FOV. Most scopes that tunnel increase the FOV until the magnification where tunneling sets in and from there FOV remains constant. Designing and selling a scope that functions as such only boosts the specifications of the instrument, not the usefulness.

 

[orkan]

I've always felt that the S&B 5-25 is a 7.5-25... let's face it, no one lowers magnification to decrease the size of viewed objects, they lower the mag to increase the FOV. Most scopes that tunnel increase the FOV until the magnification where tunneling sets in and from there FOV remains constant. Designing and selling a scope that functions as such only boosts the specifications of the instrument, not the usefulness.

This is worth repeating. Excellent post Sir.

 

[Edsel]

So are we making a list of scopes that tunnel, or scopes that don't tunnel? I'm confused.

Edited the first post

 

[orkan]

I think listing the scopes without tunneling is a mistake. This thread will be cluttered beyond belief.

If the thread lists only those that tunnel, then someone will be able to find if the scope they are interested in is listed, and move forward.

The only thing that would prevent this is for you to continually edit the first post in the thread, and keep a list. That would be a good thing anyway, actually. Don't you love when other people volunteer your time? If you do this, you'll be a hero to some.

 

[sandwarrior]

NoLegs24

I understand that these photos being taken with your iphone may not give the scope a good look over, but how close are they to reticle useability? Meaning I see no reticle at 3x (would not expect to), but not hardly seeing anything at 12x bothers me and still not seeing it be useable at 20x would definitely be a no-go for me. In your opinion, seeing as how you are with the scope, (no pun intended) where does the reticle become visible and then useable?

 

[RobertB]

DMR tunnels from 3.5 to about 5x. Still like it though. TUnneling doesnt stop me a bit. roll with it

 

[orkan]

TUnneling doesnt stop me a bit. roll with it

Does tunneling help you at all?

 

[bigbear_98]

No one has answered my question. Does the Nightforce scope, specifically the nxs 5.5-22x56 do this?

 

[KUSA]

No one has answered my question. Does the Nightforce scope, specifically the nxs 5.5-22x56 do this?

Looking at the FOV for the upper (4.7 ft) and lower (17.5 ft) magnification range I would say it doesn't. If it does it will be very little.
You can calculate what the lower FOV should be if it is actually linear. Calculated FOV at 5.5 power = 4.7/(5.5/22). This comes out to be 18.8 feet. Compare this to the published FOV of 17.5 feet. Since this is close it suggests there is little to no tunneling.
For a comparison the S&B at 5 power has a FOV of 15.9 feet and it should be 22.5 feet if it didn't tunnel.

 

[delixe]

This is worth repeating. Excellent post Sir.

Thanks.

It would be great to be able to add a stop to the mag ring on scopes that tunnel for those quick "dial down for target acquisition, dial up once acquired" situations without buggering up the scope.

It would be even better if the scope manufacturers did it for us, though

Despite all that, the S&B PMII 5-25x56 is a fantastic scope, but I like my Steiner a little more, even though the glass is not quite as good.

 

[NoLegs24]

NoLegs24

I understand that these photos being taken with your iphone may not give the scope a good look over, but how close are they to reticle useability? Meaning I see no reticle at 3x (would not expect to), but not hardly seeing anything at 12x bothers me and still not seeing it be useable at 20x would definitely be a no-go for me. In your opinion, seeing as how you are with the scope, (no pun intended) where does the reticle become visible and then useable?

yes, the phone does not the reticle any justice. I also crop the pics to focus more on the tube itself. It was a bitch at first to on the reticle focus at 3x but I was still capable of seeing it. Maybe the fact that I have young eyes helps me out lol. I can only answer the question on the visibility and usability on myself because everybody has different vision. Obviously you won't be using 3x at 100 yds. I have only taken it out to 100 yard indoor range to zero it out and & some ammo testing at this point, so I only had it at 27x, I have yet to check it out how it will do on a target at that low power, But its visible to me at 3x. its a bit hard to really focus .2 mil hash marks and such at that low power tho

 

[bigbear_98]

Looking at the FOV for the upper (4.7 ft) and lower (17.5 ft) magnification range I would say it doesn't. If it does it will be very little.
You can calculate what the lower FOV should be if it is actually linear. Calculated FOV at 5.5 power = 4.7/(5.5/22). This comes out to be 18.8 feet. Compare this to the published FOV of 17.5 feet. Since this is close it suggests there is little to no tunneling.
For a comparison the S&B at 5 power has a FOV of 15.9 feet and it should be 22.5 feet if it didn't tunnel.

Great thank you!

 

[datec]

I think we need to stick to the ones that tunnel only so it dosen't become too confusing. I think that would keep everything on point and the reader can find weather he would still like to persue the purchase.

 

[sandwarrior]

yes, the phone does not the reticle any justice. I also crop the pics to focus more on the tube itself. It was a bitch at first to on the reticle focus at 3x but I was still capable of seeing it. Maybe the fact that I have young eyes helps me out lol. I can only answer the question on the visibility and usability on myself because everybody has different vision. Obviously you won't be using 3x at 100 yds. I have only taken it out to 100 yard indoor range to zero it out and & some ammo testing at this point, so I only had it at 27x, I have yet to check it out how it will do on a target at that low power, But its visible to me at 3x. its a bit hard to really focus .2 mil hash marks and such at that low power tho

That is good information. It's almost a shame you are doing us a favor and showing us a S&B 3-27 but the phone, not doing it justice, makes some of us cringe at reticle useability.

As you state though being able to see it at 3x at least gives you a sight. Pretty much punching out what you need to at short range, but getting the job done. Of course, if visible at that low power, it's probably useable from there on up.

BTW, yes, I would find it VERY useable at 100 yds. on 3X.

 

[sandwarrior]

No one has answered my question. Does the Nightforce scope, specifically the nxs 5.5-22x56 do this?

NO! FOV expands all the way out.

 

[ryu_sekai]

TAG. I think people should list both that tunnel and those that don't. This way when people read the thread and don't see the scope the want, they don't have to wonder if it does tunnel but no one has listed it yet.

 

[Barry in IN]

TAG. I think people should list both that tunnel and those that don't. This when people read the thread and don't see the scope the want they don't have to wonder if it does but no one has listed it yet.

I agree. This thread has been interesting to me, but when it started out I wondered that if Scope X wasn't named, did that mean it didn't tunnel, or nobody had one, or nobody wanted to say it had any fault at all, or what?

 

[orkan]

Edsel, can you keep a running list in the 1st post? That will make all the information here extremely easy to digest.

 

[Edsel]

Edsel, can you keep a running list in the 1st post? That will make all the information here extremely easy to digest.

Ok, will do.

How about we list our scopes in the following format?

Brand / Model / Generation / Magnification Range / Objective Diameter / Magnification Range Where Tunneling is Noted

It'll make it much easier to cut and paste.

 

[orkan]

I'd include where the tunneling is also.

S&B PMII 5-25x56 - Tunnels from 5-7.5x

 

[Edsel]

I'd include where the tunneling is also.

S&B PMII 5-25x56 - Tunnels from 5-7.5x

Of course.

The most important part, and I left it out...

 

[orkan]

Tunnels - IOR 3-18x42: 3-4x

 

[datec]

I would like to see this thread as a sticky who do we do that? I think it it a real viable thread that everyone can use and contribute to give good usefull information.

 

[Edsel]

Morning bump - I would think that nearly everyone on this Forum has a scope!

 

[Elite_KG]

Any word on tunneling in the Leupold Mark 6 specifically the 3-18?

 

[CMH]

Never, EVER, have I had a scope jump off a rifle and start boring a hole through the earth, no matter what the brand.

 

[orkan]

Same field of view at the low end for S&B tunnelers as the non-tunnelers.

Actually this has been proven untrue. Very untrue.

If tunneling doesn't bother you, that's fine. It's a personal preference kind of thing. However, misrepresenting the facts does no one any good.

 

[knockemdown]

Ofg, I think you jumped in too quickly and missed the part about the S&B 5-25's stated fov measurement as being grossly inaccurate. Might want to go back and re-read...

 

[Thumper580]

Edsel
Zeiss 6-24x56 Victory - no tunneling
IOR 6-24x56 (2012 model) - no tunneling

 

[orkan]

Nahhhhh, too much work. Time for my nap.

OFG

It does take far less work to propagate bad information. No doubt about that. The actual field of view on the S&B 5-25 on 5x is closer to 16ft.

 

[knockemdown]

Ofg, yep scopes are tools.
The fact is, the PH 5-25x has a ~33% larger FOV @ 5x over the S&B @5x. It's your prerogative to trivialize that discrepancy, but that doesn't mean the difference is any less real, measurable, and strikingly apparent, when seen side by side.

And just because you use a tool where a limitation is not recognized, does not make that limitation any less recognizable to someone else wanting a more complete and accurately represented tool.

I wonder, if the tables were turned and it was the PH that tunneled and had bogus FOV specs, how S&B 5-25 owners would reply to a comparison between the two???

 

[orkan]

OK, so where did Kruger21 get his numbers, not that it matters.

Looking past your contemptuous tone, if it doesn't matter to you... then why ask? Go looking for confrontation and you'll always find it.

This doesn't strike me as the correct thread for discussing it. Does it seem correct to you? The other thread, that spawned this thread, would seem a better place... given that this thread is not for discussion, but to create a list. That's all. A thread that says "here's a list of scopes that tunnel." Why does this threaten those of you that like tunneling so much, that you have to come in this thread and try to convince everyone that doesn't like tunneling that we're all wrong?

Scopes are tools. ... and if I don't like an aspect of a tool, and there's another tool that will do the things I want WITHOUT that aspect which I don't like... then I'll use THAT tool instead. Frankly, I don't give a shit which tool you like, or want me to use. I'll use the one I want to use. Yet this thread says NOTHING of that. It is simply to serve as a list of scopes that have verified tunneling, and those that don't.

Is it outside of reason to expect you to keep your snide comments to other threads where opinions are actually warranted?

 

[ClearwaterKen]

Here is a short video showing the mag range, 6-24 through the Kahles K624i with the AMR reticle:

View My Video

 

[NET65]

Nightforce ATACR 5-25 does have tunneling.

 

[RyeDaddy]

IOR 4.5-14x50 SFP tunnel from 4.5-7x

 

[Edsel]

Edsel
Zeiss 6-24x56 Victory - no tunneling
IOR 6-24x56 (2012 model) - no tunneling

Nightforce ATACR 5-25 does have tunneling.

IOR 4.5-14x50 SFP tunnel from 4.5-7x

Here is a short video showing the mag range, 6-24 through the Kahles K624i with the AMR reticle:

View My Video

Thanks, guys.

It does take far less work to propagate bad information. No doubt about that. The actual field of view on the S&B 5-25 on 5x is closer to 16ft.

I really don't understand what their inclination is to do that, honestly.