Romanian PSL questions

M

minnpatriot

Private
Minuteman
Jan 20, 2011
12
0
47
USA
#1
Hello all

Well been on a relatively tight budget I am considering a Romanian PSL for my rifle. Ammo is dirt cheap and easy to find. What concerns me is the horror stories I hear about century arms and therefore I do not wish to purchase a century arms PSL. Are there any other guys who import the PSL's and who has the best reputation among them? Also I read that redstararms makes an after market adjustable trigger for the PSL that supposedly will do wonders to the gun. Is this true does anyone here have experience with it ? Another question I have is, would it benefit me to send the rifle off to a gunsmith and ask him to true up all the surfaces, parts etc in an effort to get every bit of accuracy out of this rifle. I know it will never be a tack driver as many of the guns here on the forum but I want to get all I can with a nominal cost. Or should I just buy a remington sps tactical in .308.....? which I have considered but the cost of ammo is very prohibitive.....I dont want a safe queen I want a rifle I can afford to shoot on a regualr basis. Thanks all in advance for any advice.

Edit: Or how about buying a Yugoslavian M76 Sporter rifle with scope, in 8mm. They come with milled receivers as well and I read that the 8mm round is s uperior long range round to the 7.62x54r.
 
#2
Re: Romanian PSL questions

When I first got into guns AKs where my first love, I don't know why everyone beats up on century. the first rifle I bought myself as a century AK47 still have it and it has well over 12k rounds through it over the last 12ish years. Not one time has it failed me. I actually have 4 others, well of course if you like AKs then you have to have a PSL (mine is a ROMAK 3) so I have one. I haven't shot it for awhile but it is pretty accurate. I have moved on to ARs and now getting in to really accurate bolt guns.

Anyway the barrels are thin and heat up fast, also ammo is cheap but it is not the stuff for super accurate shooting (although some is called "sniper"). mine always has impressed me and most my friends. And it always works. and that would be my point for 98% of the people it will amaze them. the other 2% hangout at snipershide.com

I like mine, but I like most guns. JMHO
 
#3
Re: Romanian PSL questions

The ones century imported from Romania are usually okay (I have one, it shoots pretty well), the ones that century is offering now are built by them on less-than-awesome parts kits. Century built ones are a mixed bag, some good some really bad. I've seen a couple with headspace that was so off you couldn't chamber a round in it.

If you buy one I'd try to have it hand picked or hand inspected. Look at the rivets, make sure the sights aren't canted, that the scope fits properly, etc etc.
 
#4
Re: Romanian PSL questions

If you want accuracy, get a bolt action or an AR platform. If you want cheap, I'd get an AK. Wanna play? Gotta pay.

IMG_0575.jpg
 
#5
Re: Romanian PSL questions

ok, where to start...

if you're worried about cost of an accurate rifle, a PSL is not what to start with, and here's why...

you're talking about a rifle that will cost you what? $600ish minimum... then you're talking about having it tuned up, let's be generous here and say you pay a smith for 5 hours at a shop rate of $50 an hour ( that's cheap ) and another $50 for a trigger kit, and $100 for a scope mount, and $225 for a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x... yes you will buy a new scope and mount, the ones that come on a PSL are all OLD, they're 4x, half aren't as clear as they were new, and several that I've seen have canted reticles, plus the mounts aren't known to be fitted to the receivers properly... so in the long run it is cheaper to replace.

total....$1225.00, and this is for a rifle that MIGHT shoot about 1MOA with reloads.... no, you can't shoot that cheap surplus ammo, it's by no means match ammo or accurate.

for the same $600ish + $100ish for rings + the same $225 for the Bushnell 3200, you can get a Remington SPS or a Savage HB in .223.

total = $925

with it you can find better ammo for cheap and it WILL definately shoot SUB MOA... and you've saved $300 bucks...

why are you looking at a PSL again?

 
#8
Re: Romanian PSL questions

1. I really like combloc weapons, 2. I am a fan of semi auto rifles. But you are right perhaps a bolt rifle although I would not go .223 as I already have a .223 I would have to go .308 and as I mentioned ammo is expensive meaning less range time for me. I have been eyeing a remington 700sps tactical, remington 700vtr and a savage 10 FLCP-K. Perhaps I will go with one of these although with a reasonable scope I am looking at $1500 or thereabouts.


http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical.aspx

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-vtr.aspx

I am very new to bolt guns....what do you think of the Tikka T3 rifles they seem real nice as well but as I said I am a complete noob at bolt guns. Never mind I just looked at prices its $1500 just for the tikka t3 tactical in 308.
 
#9
Re: Romanian PSL questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: minnpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. I really like combloc weapons, 2. I am a fan of semi auto rifles. But you are right perhaps a bolt rifle although I would not go .223 as I already have a .223 I would have to go .308 and as I mentioned ammo is expensive meaning less range time for me. I have been eyeing a remington 700sps tactical, remington 700vtr and a savage 10 FLCP-K. Perhaps I will go with one of these although with a reasonable scope I am looking at $1500 or thereabouts.


http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical.aspx

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-vtr.aspx

I am very new to bolt guns....what do you think of the Tikka T3 rifles they seem real nice as well but as I said I am a complete noob at bolt guns. Never mind I just looked at prices its $1500 just for the tikka t3 tactical in 308.

</div></div>

this directly contadicts your original post...
now I have no idea what you're actually (cheap first rifle or comcloc or dead set on .30cal or bigger)looking for.... carry on
 
#10
Re: Romanian PSL questions

I'd buy a really nice AK over a PSL.

I just bought one of Century's "Milled 1960 Polish Ak47", through J&G Sales.

The wood, the receiver, the parts, and the fit/finish are out-fucking-standing.

PSL quality is extremely hit or miss, and I dont feel safe running a stamped receiver rifle in 7.62x54r.
 
#11
Re: Romanian PSL questions

IMO don't get a PSL to start with. build a budget bolt gun with a good scope and practice with that once you have a decent precision rig then go and collect other "fun" guns.

also I to like comblock weapons but just for fun plinkers never a precision rig
 
#12
Re: Romanian PSL questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: minnpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello all

Well been on a relatively tight budget I am considering a Romanian PSL for my rifle. Ammo is dirt cheap and easy to find. What concerns me is the horror stories I hear about century arms and therefore I do not wish to purchase a century arms PSL. Are there any other guys who import the PSL's and who has the best reputation among them? Also I read that redstararms makes an after market adjustable trigger for the PSL that supposedly will do wonders to the gun. Is this true does anyone here have experience with it ? Another question I have is, would it benefit me to send the rifle off to a gunsmith and ask him to true up all the surfaces, parts etc in an effort to get every bit of accuracy out of this rifle. I know it will never be a tack driver as many of the guns here on the forum but I want to get all I can with a nominal cost. Or should I just buy a remington sps tactical in .308.....? which I have considered but the cost of ammo is very prohibitive.....I dont want a safe queen I want a rifle I can afford to shoot on a regualr basis. Thanks all in advance for any advice.

Edit: Or how about buying a Yugoslavian M76 Sporter rifle with scope, in 8mm. They come with milled receivers as well and I read that the 8mm round is s uperior long range round to the 7.62x54r.
</div></div>



Howdy and welcome!The PSL/FPK/ROMAK 3 is intended more as a designated marksman rifle than a precision "sniper" rifle.That being said,the originally imported Romanian built guns are alot of fun.With a bunch of work you will probably wind up with a 1-2 MOA rifle with good handloads or EXTRA or Wolf Match ammo.The rifles are not meant to be shot alot with bullets over 148grains such as 181grain heavy ball or most match ammo.Search the internet and you will find they have a cult following and people have come up with mods to fix most things.As other respondants noted, the barrel is very light and heats quickly,few aftermarket scope mounts work well and the better Russian optics that fit the stock rail are primitive and expensive.As far as "truing the surfaces", there is little that a general gunsmith could do.These rifles use a stamped reciever and steel trunnions riveted into it to hold the barrel and stock.You possibly could lap the locking lugs on the bolt to its trunnion but getting happy with this leads to excessive headspace.You could bed and sorta free float the hand guards but this is not really effective.If you just like the rifle and want trigger time with cheap ammo go ahead and have fun,You might even surprise some folks!
Now as to the 8mm Mauser and the M76.I love the 8mm and have tons of heavy barreled rifles that I've built over the years on all kinds of actions.As to the M76,a buddy bought a new parts kit and a reciever from ORF and a complete rifle they built on their reciever.We were both very excited about these rifles.The parts kit and reciever went togather well and looked great,until both rifles were fired.Accuracy should not even be used to describe what they produced!We are talking random 6-8 inch clusters at 50 yards.We started looking at the brass and discoverd the case head was "tilted" by .020-.035".I,being a tool and die maker,broke out my mics and such and started checking both rifles.I wound up disassembling first the parts kit rifle.When I checked the dimensions from reciever face to locking lugs I found the problem,the left lug was machined .027" to deep!Knowing that these rifles had a helical profile to the lugs I confirmed the measurement by carfully measuring the bolt and calculating what the measurement should have been.With this flaw found we used modeling clay on the factory rifle and discovered an identical defect.I contacted ORF and explained and provided documentation and they agreed to accept return of both rifles for refund.This was several years ago and I never heard of a recall,but noticed that prices from dealers went down fast.If you want one of these it must be inspected by a diligent gunsmith for the same problem.I am sure that ORF corrected the problem on subsequent recievers but there may be many on the market that were not returned and just written off as bad shooters.If you purchase one make sure its built on an original parts kit and original barrel as the newer ones have a US made barrel that is not chrome lined.
I apologize for the extreme long windedness of my post,but since I had experience with your question I felt I should try to answer fully.
 
#13
Re: Romanian PSL questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlxcupid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want accuracy, get a bolt action or an AR platform. If you want cheap, I'd get an AK. Wanna play? Gotta pay.

IMG_0575.jpg


</div></div>

Which top cover is that?
 
#15
Re: Romanian PSL questions

Get an Arsenal built AK or RPK.

PSLs are money pits if accuracy is your main concern...unless you can find a true Soviet SVD, than you have something serious to play with.
 
#16
Re: Romanian PSL questions

You can get some accuracy out of them, but you're not gonna do
it with the cheap ammo and without spending 300-500 more on the gun. I have one and I am modding it now. One thing I am doing is jetting the gas block. I threaded the hole in the block 8/32 and
got some stainless 8/32 set screws. Drilled though with various drill bits and test them out. It was throwing brass 20-30 yards
now it throwing it about 5 ft. I can use heavier than 148 without beating up the receiver. Sierra 174 Matchkings are next.
After a barrel tensioner. Yeah, I know how to polish a turd.
 
#17
Re: Romanian PSL questions

Looks like everyone covered it!

PSLModSm.jpg


My attempt, which per above after a lot of time and money, was not really worth it! With the best surplus ammo that I could find it was around 2-3 MOA. With my best handloads I was able to get it to around 1.5-2 MOA with limited firing. Heating of the barrel will really wreck the accuracy on these quickly.

If you have a PSL, something to check is the barrel bore diameter. A number of them have bores which are significantly over .30 cal. If that is the case you can run the .303 cal / .311 diameter bullets in handloads and the accuracy and performance should improve.

If you are OK with a rapid fire 3 MOA lead chucker, then it may be an option. If accuracy is any part of what you are looking for, I would have to say no.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson
 
#18
Re: Romanian PSL questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlxcupid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Texas Weapons Systems Gen 2 on a MAK90. I'm one of the beta testers. He just sent it out couple of weeks ago. There's a huge thread on arfcom.

http://texasweaponsystems.com/ </div></div>

As much as I'd love to go troll arfcom, will he produce these for milled receiver rifles? I've got a spare Eotech that would be fun to put on my Ak.
 
#19
Re: Romanian PSL questions

If this is about precision shooting on a budget you may be better off getting an SPS tactical and a single stage reloading press. I picked up a Savage 10 PC in .308 and the Lee Anniversary kit press and am making more ammo than I ever could have afforded a while ago.
 
#20
Re: Romanian PSL questions

thanks all for the advice I think I will not buy a psl unless I find a used one for real cheap just as a plinker. I am partial to the savage 10 FLCP-K it has a comopensator or the remington Model 700™ SPS™ Tactical. I need to find out more ont hese guns before I choose. Also how do you gus feel about the apex tactical scope http://www.apextacticalllc.com/products_2.html

It seems like a lot of scope for the money. Or is there something better I can use int he same price range ?
 
#21
Re: Romanian PSL questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like everyone covered it!

PSLModSm.jpg


My attempt, which per above after a lot of time and money, was not really worth it! With the best surplus ammo that I could find it was around 2-3 MOA. With my best handloads I was able to get it to around 1.5-2 MOA with limited firing. Heating of the barrel will really wreck the accuracy on these quickly.

If you have a PSL, something to check is the barrel bore diameter. A number of them have bores which are significantly over .30 cal. If that is the case you can run the .303 cal / .311 diameter bullets in handloads and the accuracy and performance should improve.

If you are OK with a rapid fire 3 MOA lead chucker, then it may be an option. If accuracy is any part of what you are looking for, I would have to say no.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson</div></div>

that rifle screams awsome!
 
#22
Re: Romanian PSL questions

Stevens 308, 16X SWFA SS scope and a Lee Anniversary reloading kit in 308.

Shoot a lot.

AK's are fun for their purpose, and precision rifle isn't one of those purposes...
 
#26
Re: Romanian PSL questions

I had a PSL, and had a noted AK gunsmith do all the accurizing stuff you talked about...it still didn't shoot all that well, and I got rid of it. 2-3 inches at 100 yards with a scope off sandbags just didn't impress me.

I tried one of the ORF 8MM rifles, and had problems with the brass cases rupturing, so I thought I had a bad batch of ammo. So I got a batch of surplus ammo that was only 10 years old, looked great, and it did the same thing. I called ORF, and they said the only thing they would guarantee the rifles with was what they tested them with..PMC ball. I couldn't find a box of PMC ball 8mm anywhere in the Portland, OR area. I told ORF that I thought it was silly to have a surplus rifle that couldn't fire any reasonably new surplus ammo...that was the entire reason for buying an 8MM. If I couldn't shoot surplus ammo through the rifle, it was useless to me.

Fortunately for me, ORF was kind enough to refund my money with out difficulty.

I still like the machined 8mm receiver over the pressed PSL receiver. Take a look at the slow motion photography of the flex in the PSL when it is fired... If I were to buy one, I would want the 8mm, but would want to see and shoot it
first.

Of course, there are plenty of relatively cheap semi-auto 308's like the DPMS or FNAR that will shoot at least as good as any PSL or 8MM yugo rifle.
 
#27
Re: Romanian PSL questions

Silk purse, sow's ear..., ain't gonna happen.

You'll likely end up with an overpriced sow's ear. Somebody's gonna be making a profit, but it won't be you.

If you're gonna sink the bucks into a project, at least start with something that has some actual potential.

Fire and maneuver warfare is not about accuracy; it's about volume of fire. That's why snipers don't use assault weapons for their primary mission.

Greg
 
#29
Re: Romanian PSL questions

I bought one of the early ones built (by Cugir Factory I believe) at J&G. Never had any problems at all. Came with the original miltary scope. Shot 3" or so with Czech Silver tip light ball. It is about as accurate as my SVD with the same ammo. I have heard some of the CAI builds were problematic. The PSL is what it is. Some are decent some are horrible.
 
#30
Re: Romanian PSL questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PSL fills the same role as an SVD or a scoped, rack grade m1a and is about as accurate as either one (unless you get a crappy one which is entirely possible).</div></div>

Let's not compare PSL and Kadish guns with true Soviet SVDs, OK. Those who say they are just as accurate as SVDs are simply never had one, never shot one, never seen one, and have no clue what differences are between a high quality SVD and such a cheap knock-off as PSL. SVD has a better barrel, higher quality steel, reliable magazines, and tighter tolerances...most of parts of SVD are not interchangeable with so called "copies" - PSL, Kadish, etc...Completely different animals.
 
#31
Re: Romanian PSL questions

The Soviet doctrine regarding the SVD and suchlike rifles is not the same as the Western Sniper doctrine. It more parallels the Western Designated Marksman role. The SVD is itended to be employed in larger numbers and with less emphasis on surgical precision. As such, it is about ideally suited to its intended task; but that task is not intended to achieve Western Sniper-like accuracy.

Greg
 
#32
Re: Romanian PSL questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VYD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PSL fills the same role as an SVD or a scoped, rack grade m1a and is about as accurate as either one (unless you get a crappy one which is entirely possible).</div></div>

Let's not compare PSL and Kadish guns with true Soviet SVDs, OK. </div></div>

LOL.

They're all built to fire the same caliber ammunition, using the same type of scope and in the same type of role.

And yes I've shot SVD before; NDMs, Tigers, and a russian long-barrel SVD. The russian rifles are built a lot better but they aren't any more accurate.

They're neat rifles but not "sniper rifles" in the way we think of "sniper".
 
#33
Re: Romanian PSL questions

I have shot a lot of PSL rifles and none of them even with 7N1 are show stoppers. I also owned a SVD when x54 ammo was hard to come by. I shot a bunch of Norma and then reloaded the brass. With my handloads that SVD never managed better than 2 MOA on AVERAGE. sometimes I saw a few 1.5 MOA groups but they were NOT the RULE. I agree with others that you would be well served with a different gun. If you have to have a "cheap" precision rifle may I suggest a Mosin Sniper. with a PE scope, with some work YOU can do your self it is entirely possible to tighten up the groups you will get out of it, but it will still require hand loading. 7N1 was not all that great despite what many will tell you. Also for those who continually want to think Russian 30 cal is like the Western 30 cal it is not. Russian bore diameters always run in the 310-311 range.

 
#34
Re: Romanian PSL questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Soviet doctrine regarding the SVD and suchlike rifles is not the same as the Western Sniper doctrine. It more parallels the Western Designated Marksman role. The SVD is itended to be employed in larger numbers and with less emphasis on surgical precision. As such, it is about ideally suited to its intended task; but that task is not intended to achieve Western Sniper-like accuracy.
Greg </div></div>

Yes sir, you are absolutely right. The Russians have a completely different approach to "sniping." I just thought it's a common knowledge so I didn't mention it. There are some excellent pieces out there, unfortunately prohibited for exportation...OSV-96, SVN-98, and few others. SVD rifles were originally designed as infantry support weapons, not as "sniper rifles." I have shot several original SVDs that were made in 70s, and they were excellent out to 800 meters on man-size torso with 7N series of ammo. Dragunov ranging reticule is easy to use, accurate, and simply deadly...
Cheers.
 
#35
Re: Romanian PSL questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VYD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PSL fills the same role as an SVD or a scoped, rack grade m1a and is about as accurate as either one (unless you get a crappy one which is entirely possible).</div></div>

Let's not compare PSL and Kadish guns with true Soviet SVDs, OK. Those who say they are just as accurate as SVDs are simply never had one, never shot one, never seen one, and have no clue what differences are between a high quality SVD and such a cheap knock-off as PSL. SVD has a better barrel, higher quality steel, reliable magazines, and tighter tolerances...most of parts of SVD are not interchangeable with so called "copies" - PSL, Kadish,etc...Completely different animals.</div></div>

I wouldn't even call the PSL rifle a copy. Totally different design than the SVD. The only thing that is the same is the ammo and the role each country uses them for. I have heard the PSL gets similar accuracy to the SVD. I would like to shoot both and see. The barrels may be the same diameter, or so I have heard, but I find it hard to believe a stamped receiver would get same accuracy as a milled. The Romanians are very poor. They are looked down upon by many eastern European countries. I find it hard to believe that they would use parts of equal quality to the Russians. I bought a Century PSL, not a Cugir build imported by Century, for $449. It was a steal. Glad I bought it at that price, because the SVD is several thousand. That's the closest I could get without taking a loan. If it doesn't shoot well, it was still worth the gamble. I have
heard TN Guns PSL build is total junk. Interordinance is supposed to be good, but I think they are Cugir imports as well.
 
#36
Re: Romanian PSL questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
captrichardson said:
Looks like everyone covered it!

PSLModSm.jpg


.....

that rifle screams awsome! </div></div>

Thanks, but as pointed out, really just a polished turd!

It has a place & purpose as outlined in this topic, but MOA accuracy is not it!

Best of Luck,
M Richardson
Click to expand...
 
#37
Re: Romanian PSL questions

Well for what it's worth I'll throw my 2 cents in and my experience with the romanian psl. Well, first off I really wanted one of these guns, I don't know why....but I did. It was relatively fun to shoot and accuracy with mine was about 1.5-2 moa and with the 7n1 sniper ammo I had gotten it down close to 1moa. But here was the trick, the first 3 shots would be around that, but the more you shot the worse my gun got. IT would spread the bullets vertically so, I know that some of these do this for whatever reason....maybe barrel heating up touching something or whatever, but in the end I tried it out to 800 yards with my 4x scope and manage to get 3 shots 54 inches apart, the other 2 shots didn't even hit the 4ft x 8ft board. So for what it's worth, it is alot of fun, but don't expect any crazy accuracy from this gun. I know some are better and some are worse, but if your looking for accuracy get a remington sps tactical and save you some money.
 
#38
Re: Romanian PSL questions

The PSL I used was horrible.

The mags were of such poor quality that it would not even strip a round from the magazine.

The accuracy was horrible, due in part to the cruddy Romanian scope no doubt, but it was still a weapon that I would not take into combat regardless of the situation.

I have fired standard AK platform rifles without optics more accurately than that PSL.

You would be better off buying an Arsenal Russian or Arsenal Bulgarian and mounting a scope on it, rather than buying a PSL.
 
#39
Re: Romanian PSL questions

I may still get a PSL just because they look mean and have that old school com bloc feel. That said, I have a Saiga 308 22" that shoots cheap Russian steel cased ammo around 2 MOA and I wouldn't expect a PSL to do any better. The Saiga actually has a stiffer, thicker barrel so if authenticity isn't your primary concern, it's probably a better buy for $500.
 
#40
Re: Romanian PSL questions

I just bought one of the PSL 54c's, first thing I noticed is there is more oil and grease in this thing than in axle on a tractor. I really do wonder if people who find "rust" didn't clean out this goop, I am serious! I had to completely, take all the wood off and clean and spray, took over an hour.

If you read up on some of the eastern block snipers (no this is not a draganov), they all explained their favorite scope. It is the 4x scope, why? They liked the field of view. Why? So they can accurately do suppressing fire, when I say accurately, keeping people's heads down whilst others move in.

I have not shot this yet, but from taking it apart and looking at it I can see a few things.

One, the barrel is very thin, like a hunting rifle. This has one advantage, its light, walking around with my FN SPR A1 would suck worse than carrying a microwave oven 3 miles.

Two, its really basic (talking about the PSL not SVD), much like an M1A/M14, simple is good.

So, if you want to bench rest shoot this gun, you're nuts. Only way I could see this being an "accurate" shooter is to shoot, then wait 15 minutes or so for the barrel to cool. I think you COULD make this accurate, if you got a huge milled receiver, bigger barrel and had some bolt work done. But guess what? Now you have something vastly different, that is heavy, but accurate, and you could have saved money and time by just buying some Rem 700P.

Just looking at the barrel and then looking at the size of the round, it makes complete sense why this came with a 4x scope.
 
#41
Re: Romanian PSL questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PoniesWhee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Saiga actually has a stiffer, thicker barrel so if authenticity isn't your primary concern, it's probably a better buy for $500. </div></div>

Saigas are built much better than a PSL. I shot a converted one that was about 1MOA with my handloads. Seemed to be a little rough on brass though.

Same goes for if you want an Ak, a saiga 5.45 is really cheap and if you convert it you'll have a nice ak pattern rifle for really cheap (and they use ak74 mags just fine).
 
#42
Re: Romanian PSL questions

I have had opportunity to try out Saigas and I like them a lot. As rifle and shotgun caliber semis of a reliable and relatively effective nature, they git 'er done.

My only serious issue is that while models are listed that hold my interest, they may as well be discribed as 'vaporware' due to their pretty univeral unavailability when one get seriious enough about them to want to buy one.

I expect someday soon to be able to spend some actual money on some items I've been biding ( ...and biding..., and biding...) my time on. One can develop a fairly well-refined wish list under the right circumstances. Doesn't look like having money will do me much good when the time arrives, however.

...where the Saigas are involved, anyway...

Greg
 
#44
Re: Romanian PSL questions

The Russians aren't dumb, and know how to build accurate precision rifles when they want to. I am pleased to see how many people understand the differences between western precision marksmanship, and the Russian designated marksman roles.

If the Russians wanted to build and field rifles capable of shooting 1MOA or less, they certainly have the ability to do so. Their olympic athletes, and other international shooting athletes don't use crap equipment, so they know what is out there if they want to produce it. Some of the Russian 22 pistols are excellent, and very cost efficient tools, even if their appearance is a bit rough by our standards. But again, they wanted to put the effort into shooting accuracy, not the finished appearance of the product.

In the US we have many rifles that I think of as designated marksman rifles, even if the manufacturers want us to think differently of them. Those would be the FN FNAR, DPMS 308's, and many of the semi auto 308's. Sure, most of the US made 308's mentioned outshoot the PSL and similar rifles, but they most certainly aren't comparable to M24, M40, GA Precision, or similarly made rifles.
 
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