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Ron Unz - Everything you know about WW2 is wrong
- Thread starter Kamerad
- Start date
Good points that I don't know about. But I know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop
One....two.....three.
Also, the Holocaust has historical use and it did happen. But it also allows the darker side of humor to have a reference. See, it gives context so that one get a giggle out of hearing about the new German microwave.
It seats ten.
You are welcome, internet.
All I have to do is figure out a joke about internment camps so that I can piss off George Takei.
I don't belittle the suffering, I laugh in the face of pain.
Ok...so. dude claims Hitler is just misunderstood and there is a vast MULTINATIONAL conspiracy between the Russians, Americans, British, Germans, French, Japan etc to collectively erase the shared experience of an entire generation of people across the globe.
And he's just asking questions?
I think I'd need A FUCK TON MORE PROOF.
And like a true full retard, I never said govts don't lie. My point was if govt lie, what makes you think this fucktard is telling the truth?
@Bullfrog08 you gave me so much shit for "Defending Nazis" when I said SS members should get a trial.
This asshole claims hitler wanted peace and is just misunderstood.
FULL
FUCKING
RETARD
(And yeah we all knew WW2 ended the depression. Shit that's taught is school. We know we broke the Japense Codes. Commanders did get warned. McArthur had 24 hours AFTER PEARL HARBOR and was still sitting on his ass. And the peace loving austrian corprol just decided to up an invade the USSR AND THEN Decalred war on the USA--because we only decalred war on Japan.)
FULL
FUCKING
PLAID
RETARD
Grade school history has always been taught in broad swaths and with clear delineations of right and wrong. It also tends to be a survey course with lots of chronology involved.
It’s only once you get into masters and PhD level history that you start looking at causality and taking deep dives.
Everything you were taught about history unless you have a masters or PhD is probably just a scratch at the surface. And you were not being misled you were just being taught enough to, get through life or decide you want to learn more during your formative years.
From what I read of the interview, none of the guys assertions are wrong. Because in all of history, there are many views and many causes and often plenty of blame to go around. Which is what so interesting about studying history because there’s always some new angle to come up with.
At the same time there are plenty of folks who want to warp history or erase it or destroy it in order to further their own political ends. Bay 1619 project whack jobs or holocaust denying fruit bats there is plenty of fuzz in any history that you can come up with new interpretations to try and , make modern political points or sell books.
Interpretation of History is considered an “art” for a reason. Though the injection of more and more science (through archeology, forensics, dendrochronology, dna analysis, geology, climate analysis, pollen analysis, hydrology, living history, and tons of other sciences) the final product is still the best approximation and merely is a snapshot of “what happened.”
History is in fact infinite. Because in the chaos of the moment, thousands… millions of “histories” happened. Every individual had their own history. But we see the world through only the eyes of the records left behind… or the artifacts. Or the bones. And mut weave a story based on evidence.
And it doesn’t help that the victors write the histories… and that historians are products of their times and views/opinions/ agendas.
So not everything you kno about WW2 is wrong. Is just incomplete.
And the “wrong” stuff is often made intentionally wrong. Because revisionism and post-modernism dictate that history is only valuable a a tool to show the future. So must be altered accordingly.
Cheers!
Sirhr
It’s only once you get into masters and PhD level history that you start looking at causality and taking deep dives.
Everything you were taught about history unless you have a masters or PhD is probably just a scratch at the surface. And you were not being misled you were just being taught enough to, get through life or decide you want to learn more during your formative years.
From what I read of the interview, none of the guys assertions are wrong. Because in all of history, there are many views and many causes and often plenty of blame to go around. Which is what so interesting about studying history because there’s always some new angle to come up with.
At the same time there are plenty of folks who want to warp history or erase it or destroy it in order to further their own political ends. Bay 1619 project whack jobs or holocaust denying fruit bats there is plenty of fuzz in any history that you can come up with new interpretations to try and , make modern political points or sell books.
Interpretation of History is considered an “art” for a reason. Though the injection of more and more science (through archeology, forensics, dendrochronology, dna analysis, geology, climate analysis, pollen analysis, hydrology, living history, and tons of other sciences) the final product is still the best approximation and merely is a snapshot of “what happened.”
History is in fact infinite. Because in the chaos of the moment, thousands… millions of “histories” happened. Every individual had their own history. But we see the world through only the eyes of the records left behind… or the artifacts. Or the bones. And mut weave a story based on evidence.
And it doesn’t help that the victors write the histories… and that historians are products of their times and views/opinions/ agendas.
So not everything you kno about WW2 is wrong. Is just incomplete.
And the “wrong” stuff is often made intentionally wrong. Because revisionism and post-modernism dictate that history is only valuable a a tool to show the future. So must be altered accordingly.
Cheers!
Sirhr
So no one thinks our grandparents/great grandparents were smart enough to correct this narrative in their accounts and just parroted this to us to reinforce a narrative that was not true? WTF ever..... While there are debatable subtleties to the high school level versions of WWII the overwhelming facts show we did not enter that war without due cause. While our ancestors went on the best information they had, they were not in a bubble, and far from gullible, especially in comparison to today's generations. They only figured out how to mobilize and field the most effective fighting force to date in that war......
But at least I'm not claiming Hitler was wronged and the Holocaust was faked.You talk like a fag and your shits all retarded
I know, "Just asking questions" Like "WHy the fuck are you wasting our Oxygen?"
I never actually claimed anything. I just posted what people have said or asked over the years.
I simply agree with Patton. We fought the wrong enemy. And they killed him for it.
Actually the generations that all went to the slaughter for WWI and WWII were some of the most totally gullible, indoctrinated, brainwashed folks ever. They totally lived in their jingoistic bubble and believed all the propaganda the government spewed out.
The start of WWI and WWII were preceded by huge amounts of government propaganda and thought control, the government working hand in hand with the "media" and "news" and "entertainment" industries to totally brainwash people and drive mass hysteria and hatred for anyone saying anything else.
You think today is bad? HA! You haven't seen anything compared to the total propaganda that our government did back in WWI, even the Nazis were in awe of how effective and total USA government propaganda was.
Add in some false flag operations, lots of lies and everyone from the government to the pulpit spewing out patriotic propaganda about why we need to kill our fellow man because... and then you have the start of your glorious war.
Oh and don't forget our "friends" the British "doing all they could" to get the USA to help them in their little war with their cousins on the continent...
And it wasn't just here that the propaganda was in full swing either...
In confusion there is opportunity,... sow confusion & you can run your game on all none thinkers,...
I largely agree with this, but the history of WWII in 1950 is far more salient than the revisionist history of WWII in 2024.
For instance, if you read all the headlines and stories in newspapers coming out of Hawaii after December 7th, 1941 you will find that a great deal of Ink was spilt about Niʻihau incident where Japanese Americans helped the downed attacking pilots. The Wiki page on this incident (and others) scrubs quite a few first person narratives, but the impact on the American people was huge. The Japanese did, indeed, revere the Emperor as a living god, so it wasn't hard for Americans to understand that a man's allegiance is to God before men. Ergo, they concluded that among the Japanese there was a very real threat of disloyalty to America. It is my contention that we never would have interned the American Japanese if it weren't for the stark fact that in the aftermath of Dec 7th it was a fact that a few of them sided with our attackers. This is just a fact. You can argue that the internment was too reactionary and draconian, but not that it was born out of inherent racism (though that is also legit). There was a ton of emotion and zeitgeist, and to understand that does take a "deep dive" to understand.
All that said, the internment is pointed to as yet another original sin, and just like pinning slavery on the USA, it's bullshit. I find way more problem with modern (leftist) revisionist history than I do with anything written in the immediate aftermath of the war.
I've read many, many books on WWII, but I would still council to start with W. Churchill's five volume set before making any pronouncements about false histories or using tertiary sources to form your opinions. To actually understand you need to read first person narratives from the people who were there. Von Manstein's "Lost Victories" is another essential, as is Herman Balk's "Order in Chaos".
Hitler was bad. The Nazis were bad. Most of the leadership of the Wehrmacht knew this from the beginning, but they were good soldiers and did their duty.
Revisionist history is bullshit, and academic, mental masturbation.
Just you know remember that Churchill had his own reasons for making sure "history" was written his way so I wouldn't hold any book he wrote as perfectly true.
There was this thing about him really badly wanting a war with Japan and not peace because of some possibly family business dealings.
He also really wanted a European war for other reasons and refused most efforts at peace
He was also responsible for goading the USA into the war to support the UK, with all kinds of false propaganda about what the Nazis' wanting to take over the world. And then there are also some folks saying the British understood the Japanese codes a lot earlier than they admit to and knew the attack on HI was coming but didn't do much to warn anyone as they wanted the USA in the war.
Did this alleged war cause Germany, Italy, and Japan to make really good cars and bikes? This should be a determining factor in who gets involved in the next war.
I never said that, period. Have you read his five book chronicle? That's why I also recommend first person sources from the German side of things as well. The more perspectives you consider they better your overall understanding will be. Here is the rub:
Like looking for a single source of news that presents the truth and one that you can trust...don't bother. Every human has a perspective. To understand you need to get more than one perspective. Everyone is going to tell the same story, assuming "truthfully", a little different. The Gospels are four perspectives of the same events told from four different points of view. In Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ" he points out that from the perspective of a detective the way these books support each other and the way they differ is actually evidence of their truthfulness in a way that if they were exactly the same would indicate mendaciousness. First person sources are always preferable than assemblers of history that were not there and have no idea what it was like to be there, but still insert their own points of view.
If you had read Mein Kampf in the in the late 20s, and really believed that this nobody insurrectionist meant what he wrote, what happened after was little more than following the plan he laid out. Similarly Obamas Dreams from My Father laid out his radical leftist penchant. Whenever he spoke it was basically the opposite of what he had already admitted to in print.
Like looking for a single source of news that presents the truth and one that you can trust...don't bother. Every human has a perspective. To understand you need to get more than one perspective. Everyone is going to tell the same story, assuming "truthfully", a little different. The Gospels are four perspectives of the same events told from four different points of view. In Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ" he points out that from the perspective of a detective the way these books support each other and the way they differ is actually evidence of their truthfulness in a way that if they were exactly the same would indicate mendaciousness. First person sources are always preferable than assemblers of history that were not there and have no idea what it was like to be there, but still insert their own points of view.
If you had read Mein Kampf in the in the late 20s, and really believed that this nobody insurrectionist meant what he wrote, what happened after was little more than following the plan he laid out. Similarly Obamas Dreams from My Father laid out his radical leftist penchant. Whenever he spoke it was basically the opposite of what he had already admitted to in print.
I’ve personally seen a dam holding back 12-14’ of water, using a two-tiered dam structure, made by fucking beavers. It was magnificent, and about 3 miles from the nearest road. I’m an engineer, and I shit you not it would cost humans a million dollars or more to accomplish what those little swamp rats did with sticks and mud.
Don’t underestimate hard labor and determination.
Not only is this 'not' wrong... it is right on numerous levels. Goebbels learned much of what he knew from Ed Bernays... a marketing executive who became Wilson and the Democrat Party's 'opinion' shaper.
Those marketing guys are scary as shit.
Sirhr
Churchill did say that "History will be kind to me, because I intend to write it!"
Interesting that some of the best 'histories' of WW2 came from Cornelius Ryan who went to primary sources.
Historiand poo-pooh'd him because he was 'just' a journalist. And could not possibly comprehend how to do history.
Today, his archives are considered some of the best primary records of WW2.
As for revisionist history... yup! Mostly leftist post-modernists. That said, some of the work is rigorous and has proved some 'sacred cows' wrong. History should always be 'reviseable' IF the facts, research and details can be rigorously verified at a level commensurate with the scientific method.
But most 'revisionist' history is based on wishes and a lot of hemp-addled bullshit. Look at the 'revisionist' version of Native American history spewed in the '60's and '70's. No, they were not noble advanced people living in peaceful communes in an idyllic Western setting. They had short, violent and disease-riddled lives. They sold and traded in slaves. They killed each other wholesale. Nothing wrong with that. It's how humans have been for millenia.
However the portrait painted of Native American culture by leftist communist revisionists during the '60's and '70's is more fantasy than reality. But it created a political movement.
Don't even get me started on the Palestinian shitbags.
History is always available for folks to alter, attack and use to their own ends. Which is why it needs to be undertaken apolitically and agnostically. Looking for truth. Well, as an historian, I can say that this is not as easy as it sounds. Because I am as prejudiced in my own way as any leftist commie revisionist. But at least I try and recognize it and stand outside my own prejudices to make evaluations.
Does it always work? Well, who am I to judge!
Sirhr
But the most recent research indicates that it was not slaves... it was a population that was committed to their sun god... who was willing to give up months or years of their lives to work on the project. Similar to Stonehenge or the Easter Island heads.
Change 'slave labor' to people committed to their own salvation who will give their time and effort to build giant structures... and you get pyramids. Aztec Temples. Great Cathedrals. Salt Lake City. And the Nazi hierarchy.
One does not have to put everything under the lens of slavery. Getting folks all 'God-crazy' and you can motivate the shit out of them.
Sirhr
I never actually claimed Michelle Obama ass rammed you on a daily basis...
I'm just asking the question "When did you stop taking 16 inches of Michelles black dick in the ass?" like others have asked.
Just askin questions man.
David Irving Lived and worked in Germany after ww2. He spent most of his life collecting personal accounts and diaries of key people on all sides involved in ww2. He has written many books on the subject.
Look further back in history...all of the ruling families were related to each other. Cousins fucking cousins and sisters fucking brothers to keep the wealth. They would have little wars here and there to keep the populace proud to be patriotic countrymen and hating the enemy. The wars created an opportunity to increase the taxes demanded by the ruler(s). In the end, no true conquering of land took place. At least not amongst those fucking cousins. Sure, an acre here, a lake there. 20 years goes by and it's returned to it's "rightful" owners. Long live the King. Those incestuous families are still the ones pulling the real strings.
They had a real plan going on to rule all of the people on earf but then the free Americans happened and it took them about 150 years to figure out how to make that concept fail.
It's still going on.
The way I see it, WW1 was never really settled and led to WW2. WW2 "ended" but the dipshits who "won" just divvied the lands up by drawing lines on a map, disregarding the indigenous people there which led to the ongoing skirmishes with people like the Kurds, including the shitshows that were the Korean War, the conflict in Vietnam and the rise of the dog fuckers in the Middle East.
They had a real plan going on to rule all of the people on earf but then the free Americans happened and it took them about 150 years to figure out how to make that concept fail.
It's still going on.
The way I see it, WW1 was never really settled and led to WW2. WW2 "ended" but the dipshits who "won" just divvied the lands up by drawing lines on a map, disregarding the indigenous people there which led to the ongoing skirmishes with people like the Kurds, including the shitshows that were the Korean War, the conflict in Vietnam and the rise of the dog fuckers in the Middle East.
You know how liberals sound like complete nut jobs when they say there are 500 genders and call riots peaceful protests?
Well this and claiming everything you know about everything is a lie, is the right wing version of that insanity.
Well this and claiming everything you know about everything is a lie, is the right wing version of that insanity.
Irving is a discredited Nazi apologist and a holocaust denier. In fact, he claims that the Allies perpetrated the horrors of pictures and film from 1945.
He claims that the Joos start every war there ever was. He's a radical lunatic, and probably a commie.
Take that Nazi apologetics somewhere else. My Grandfather-in-law was an FO at The Battle of the Bulge, and received a bronze star. He was in Germany till 1948 in the occupation force. At age 96, in a 2014 interview for PBS when he was finished telling his story the interviewer asked him if he had anything to add. He said, "I liked killing those Nazis. If they asked me to do it again, right now, I'd say yes. "
He claims that the Joos start every war there ever was. He's a radical lunatic, and probably a commie.
Take that Nazi apologetics somewhere else. My Grandfather-in-law was an FO at The Battle of the Bulge, and received a bronze star. He was in Germany till 1948 in the occupation force. At age 96, in a 2014 interview for PBS when he was finished telling his story the interviewer asked him if he had anything to add. He said, "I liked killing those Nazis. If they asked me to do it again, right now, I'd say yes. "
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Obituary for Benjamin Yancy Cooper, Jr. at Johnson-Quimby Funeral Home
Benjamin Yancy Cooper, Jr. 95 of Atmore, AL. passed away April 19, 2015 in Atmore. He was born June 12, 1919 to the late Benjamin Yancy, Sr. and Emma Odum Cooper in Mitchell County, GA. He served in the U.S. Army during WW II, took part in the Battle of
www.johnsonquimby.com
you obviosly have not taken the time to listen to Irving. He was born and raised in Britan. Because there was no work in britan after ww2 he took a job in a steel mill in germany where he learned to read, write, and speak german out of necessity. It was there that he heard firsthand accounts of the war from the German people. We wouldnt know anything about the horrors of the Dresden bombing without the extensive research done by Irving. No one is discrediting the war effort of courageous americans like your grandfather in law who answered the call. There was a lot of deception done by government leaders. It is prudent to learn both sides of history.
Aaaahhhhh! My Ancestors!
lol.
You are exactly right. If anyone doubts it, they should visit some of the reservations. The feds, through the tribal governments, have pumped enough money into it to fool some, but many are sad, depressing, hopeless places.
These zealots will even fly airplane bombs into aircraft carriers, battleships and buildings or wear special vests to the market.
I never mentioned slaves. I just said don't underestimate anyone with determination to achieve something and the willingness to work their asses off.
The welfare system is designed to take the husband/father out of the picture. This has 2 primary implications....obviously, the first one is a lack of parenting so the kids are (not)raised with a father figure creating the cretins we are all well aware of. But it also devaluates the man. The husband. The dad. He is discouraged from being around lest the authoritays show up and take away some of the welfare money. So the man feels like crap about being just a sperm donor and spirals into a self-medicating piece of shit that we end up paying even more for his incarceration.Aaaahhhhh! My Ancestors!
lol.
You are exactly right. If anyone doubts it, they should visit some of the reservations. The feds, through the tribal governments, have pumped enough money into it to fool some, but many are sad, depressing, hopeless places.
The children see this. In most of these communities, the children see this played out over 2-3 generations and realize that IS their future. Depressing. The suicide rate increases accordingly along with all the various substance abuses, furthering the state of depression.
Vicious.
Zoomer Historian is the bomb. I'm actually watching his stuff right now.
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Some of what Irving says is sourced. Most of it is not. At least the allied leaders wanted to win at all costs, which is more than you can say for the pussies leading us recently.
And there goes the “i read multiple sources and first person account narrative…” Youre just as biased or even more than those commies you claim are reinventing history…
As a slav and if i had a say i’d exterminate germans in ‘45 but some things Holoscam included just did not happen in a way it is generally accepted and taught..
That is literally what the left called WW2 in the USA prior to operation Barbarossa, then it changed into a crusade to save the world.
The USNI magazine "Naval History" also finally admitted and published an article in the late 90's that we knew about what was coming and allowed the Pearl Harbor attack to happen so we could finally whip up enough emotion to join the war.
i supposed i would have to dive into the reference material to be serious about it...
...but why weren't we taught that the polish and ukrainians were slaughtering jews well before hitler and the nazis did it?
...but why weren't we taught that the polish and ukrainians were slaughtering jews well before hitler and the nazis did it?
And each other since Vikings first came south 
...
Usually people "living in a moment" are very very poor source of information just ask someone who has been vaccinated and take their account of "Corona times" as a fact....riiight?
Point being regardless of atrocities Nazis did it was not "out of the blue" but had a cause just as WWI had a cause (or wars before and after it). World aint black and white but as for the TribeTM from the dawn of men (almost ) there is a common denominator whomever came into the contact with the TribeTM had genocidal tendencies - eventually. Funny eh?
PS: Just to add i wonder how many of you know that a civil war that you fought wasn't one tiny little bit about slavery or secession but about North exploiting the South and fucking South over with unjust tariffs and taxes and federal "overreach"... Not many i would guess...and its your own basic history.
...Usually people "living in a moment" are very very poor source of information just ask someone who has been vaccinated and take their account of "Corona times" as a fact....riiight?
Point being regardless of atrocities Nazis did it was not "out of the blue" but had a cause just as WWI had a cause (or wars before and after it). World aint black and white but as for the TribeTM from the dawn of men (almost
) there is a common denominator whomever came into the contact with the TribeTM had genocidal tendencies - eventually. Funny eh?PS: Just to add i wonder how many of you know that a civil war that you fought wasn't one tiny little bit about slavery or secession but about North exploiting the South and fucking South over with unjust tariffs and taxes and federal "overreach"... Not many i would guess...and its your own basic history.
Yeah.. I think it was some other folks but your post was the most worthwhile one to hit reply to. And… yes! What you just said!
Cheers!
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