Rifle Scopes Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

[bforney1984]

Thank you in advance for everyone's help! Another member on the Hide has already let me ramble on and helped tremendously so I thought I'd take what little info I have and open it up for more input.

I recently purchased a Sako TRG-22 in 260 Rem from EuroOptic and am beyond excited to start shooting it! I can't decide on glass though. It will primarily be a target shooter but who knows what the future will hold. I've been shooting for a grand total of about 3 months now and know I have A LOT to learn and look forward to doing so.

I want to be able to shoot out to 1k yds with accuracy, possibly shooting local competitions. Most shooting (and endless practice) will be done inside of that obviously. I like the FFP concept for the ability to have accurate reticle markings at any magnification without any calculations. I also see the benefit of the SFP scopes with magnifications in the 30's and 40's for the 1000yd competition crowds.

If I were to buy a Premier Heritage 3-15, am I taking myself out of the running in a long distance competition? If I buy a NF NXS with a high end in the 40's for the few times I shoot a 1000yd competition, am I giving up anything by passing on a USO 3.2-17 or 3.8-22 custom build? What it boils down to is can I have my cake and eat it too with a competitive long range tactical scope?

I am fortunate that my price max is about $3000 but don't want to spend it all if I really don't have to. Would a Premier be wasted on a newbie and a Razor suit me just fine? Thanks to anyone who's willing to read all this and give me some advice!

 

[tt350z]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Paragraphs...

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Haha sorry, it's the result of a 14hr workday today...

 

[Alpine 338]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Get the best glass you can afford. You can't go wrong with Premier. However, on my TRG-22 I'm running a S&B 4-16x50 with P-4F reticle, and really like it on the TRG for the low profile it has with the Near Alpha mount.

The Premier is a larger and heavier scope, and like them on my Rem 700 actions.

Good luck, you'll love the TRG platform.

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Alpine- Would a 16x truly enable me to shoot at 1000yd and make X ring hits assuming I do my part or would I be asking too much of that magnification?

Cant wait for the TRG to arrive and my 10-day wait period start (good old California)

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Before someone nails me on that last post, I realize people shoot 1k with iron sights and the scope doesn't make my shots for me

 

[VKC]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

For out to 1000 yards tactical comps, I don't think you need anything beyond 25x. Beyond that, those scopes are fairly specialized for 1000yds benchrest shooters because that high of mag variable scope has a low end that is too much mag for most moving targets and inside of 200 yds. Also with mirage, anything beyond 25x is difficult to use except in perfect conditions.

If you are shooting steel out to 1000yds, 3-15x is enough and more ideal for moving targets and closer ranges. If you shooting paper only then 5-25x would be prefered for longer distances, and tighter groups.

If you have the money, I would skip Vortex and get a NF, Premier or S&B. The new S&B 3-20x50 has a near perfect mag range for comps.

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

VKC- That helps a lot, thanks! Is there a reason you leave out USO? Seems like they're a love em or hate em kinda deal?

 

[cooper_257]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

if it is a hot day and you have bad mirage the higher power scopes wont be any advantage at all, because you wont be able to use them much past 12 to 14. a 4-16 is plenty of power to shoot accurately at 1000, I prefer variables with a top end around 20.

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Living in California, cool, mirage-free days are few and far between so that narrows my scope search quite nicely

 

[Alpine 338]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

You have to decide if you want a tactical rifle, or a benchrest rifle. I think your TRG is more of a tactical rifle, and should wear a tactical scope.

I know you would like it to do all things, but like some of the others have said, going with a high powered scope like what is used in benchrest really limits you.

My first precision rifle started out with a fixed 10X, and I had no problems hitting center mass on steel at 1000-yards with it, and seeing my hits. Yes, you would want more magnification for punching paper, but you have to decide what role you want the rifle to fill.

In my opinion, anything over 20X is a waste and not usable on a hot day. If you like the Premier reticles, the Premier 5-25 is a much better scope then the S&B 5-25. I prefer the P-4F over Premeirs XR reticle, so I'm torn there. I have both scopes, and if it was a perfect world, my perfect scope would be a Premier 5-25 with P-4F reticle.

Someday I will have a 6.5 whether it's a 260 or 6.5x47L, and have already decided it will wear a S&B 4-16x50 with P-4F Reticle.

Ultimately, you have to decide what will work best for you.

 

[blaserman33]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

I got a little bit of magnification schooling when looking for binos and someone suggested to try comparing actual detail between the 8x and the 10x, and surprise surprise, I got more from the 8x due to lower effect from minute shaking and what not, so I would agree that above the 20x-25x range you will have more problems than you might expect from the mirage, air conditions,weather conditions,etc.

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Perfect, thanks guys. I'm definitely going to go the tactical route. I've narrowed it down to Premier, S&B or USO. Not sure why I can't seem to shake the USO option... I really like the low-profile EREK knob. Are they really as hit and miss as I've read on here?

The Premier light tactical 3-15 seems like a great deal and would save me about a grand over the 5-25 but being able to dial the magnification down would obviously be much better than needing more and going without.

About a month ago I tried to save a couple hundred bucks and bought a Redfield spotting scope. I promptly returned it after one trip to the range as the clarity just wasn't there. I told myself I'd never again buy something just because it's less expensive. Buy once and be done with it. Not to mention, it'd be downright wrong to skimp on glass for the TRG

 

[Cologgi]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

The S&B 5-25 P4f, 4-16 or 3-20 will ruin you. After owning one and learning to use it, you will be ruined. You'll have to have one one all your rifles. In my opinion the optic is more important than the rifle and there is nothing not to like about the S&B. Its the best $3k you can spend if you are serious about shooting.

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Bobcat- The 3-20 is listed on SWFA but another thread on here said they aren't avilable until next year. Can you speak to that at all? Thanks!

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

This may be a dumb question but... Why S&B over Premier?

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

fyi- cleared up on other topic... S&B 3-20x50 not available on SWFA

 

[CaptainH]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

With glass you do get what you pay for so to speak. However, I think there is a point of diminshing returns. The question that I would be asking is - is there any real significant advantage to spending 3K vs 1K for my eyes and for what I will be shooting. I shoot F class and long range bang and clang and for my money the Sightron scopes are very nice. I also like the Bushness new Elite line. I spend the extra money on bullets, primers and powder and shoot more. If you can do both, then more power to ya. It is America after all.

 

[VKC]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

I have a S&B 3-20 on order and it is supposed to available by October, but these things get delayed.

 

[Wilkinkc]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

From my own personal experience; I had planned on doing the same. Ended up going with a Vortex PST 4-16x50 and have been extremelly pleased with it. Have not gone 1000 yards or anything like that with it, but come to find out I don't really have that opportunity around here. You may check into that before you drop the serious cash on a scope. Make sure you have a range/land local to you to justify spending the money on a 1000 yard scope. For the money I'd grab a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP. Just my 2 cents

 

[65nut]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

i have a sightron siii and its a mil to mil scope. sending it back tuesday. just looked through it to compare to my vortex razor, its not even nearly as clear and i was looking at ranges from 0 yards to 800. sightron doesnt even compare. spend the money if you can on great optics.

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Luckily there's a 1,000yd range about 20min from my house

I'm still stuck between S&B, Premier, and USO. I'd like to think I cant go wrong with any of those. Trying to decide if i can get away with the Premier Light Tactical 3-15x50 for 1000yd shooting. While I know more magnification (up to 25x) wouldn't hurt, I'm wonderinng if my 26yo eyes can bail me out with the 15x

 

[Rob01]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

You can dial the 25x down to 15x but you can't dial the 15x up to 25x if needed

Get a 25x.

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Very true Rob... I think I'm sold on the Premier Heritage 5-25x56 unless someone has a definitive reason to go with S&B?

 

[whitefarms4840]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

I wouldn't rule out Nightforce, could save you 1k. My 26 yo eyes are good enough behind a 3-15x50 to get to 1000. Save 1k and buy a thousand rounds, or reloading supplies. etc. good luck with whatever decision you make.

 

[300ATT]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

FWIW,

On Friday I shot one of my tactical .308's at 300, 500,600 ,800 ,900 and 1,000 yards in preparation for the CO state full-bore match. The gun wears a S&B 3-12X with Gen II mill dot. I also brought a 6.5 gun with a 6.5-20X Leupold on top. While shooting the 12x S&B there were times when I wished for more magnification (you can't see the 5" X-ring at 1,000 yards - what a surprise. Even if you could the cross hairs of the FFP scope will cover it completely up). So you go to 20X and guess what, with the mirage it gets worse! ... you have a hard time telling if the target is even round. As you pointed out earlier there are shooters that do VERY well at 1,000 yards with iron sights. Learn learn the fundamentals of marksmanship learn to dope wind and if you can do those things and hard-hold center of mass you can do great with a 2.5-10x scope.

My experience is that for NRA target shooting out to 1,000 yards 12X is a little light, 20X tends to be too much and 16x is about perfect/max magnification for 1,000 yard fixed distance match shooting. If you happen to have near perfect conditions (never happened to me) you will naturally want to look at the target in 25X but you will be surprised how distracting it is to watch those crosshairs jump around with each heart beat. This is one of the great advantages of shooting iron sights over a scope at distance ... you don't see all of that wiggle.

Here is a pic from a good article to give you some more insight:

http://demigodllc.com/photo/FClass/?small=D101_4447_img.jpg

Note if you are going to shoot small targets at long distances a SFP scope might be better for you as the reticles of FFP scopes tend to become "too course" at high magnification settings and cover up too much of those small targets ...

All that being said, every penny spent on great glass is never wasted (I would vote, S&B, Premier, US Optic, IOR, Nightforce ... )

Good shooting ...

 

[FX44]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Take a look at the Trijicon Accupoint TR23 5x20x50. It is a beautiful piece of glass with a few different options for reticles and colors. If you shop online you can find one for about $1100 (http://www.red-dot-scopes.com/trijicon-accupoint-5-20x50-riflescopes.html). For that price you will have a fine piece of glass and save your money for other things (maybe trigger work).

 

[AussieSnipez]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .300 AT&T</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW,
in 25X but you will be surprised how distracting it is to watch those crosshairs jump around with each heart beat. This is one of the great advantages of shooting iron sights over a scope at distance ... you don't see all of that wiggle.
</div></div>

I shoot a BA110 with a LEUPOLD Mk4 Tactical TMR 8X-25X at ranges of 600m to 1500m and the point you made about the heartbeat in 25X is Spot on! Like you I tend to hover around 15 to 18X even at 1500m.
Like I said I have the Leupold Mk4 on a .338LapMag and a NXS Nightforce 5.5 - 22X on a Cheytac .408. The nightforce is good but the Leupold in my humble opinion is a thing of beauty!

 

[cuffm4615]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Definately go premiere !! Too bad I can never afford one but the ones I have seen have been truly awesome.

 

[AKAce]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

All of them will work... You can buy Better Glass than a Nightforce, but Not better internals. They are Industrial Strength.

We shoot well beyond 1000 all the time with 3.5-15 and 5.5-22 NXS.

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Wow thanks guys! Tons of great insight! So now the question is do I get the PH 5-25 on the off chance I can use the 25x or go with the 3-15? If I go 3-15, the light tactical might provide less adj range but with the 260 needing less than 8mils to get to 1k, might be a viable option?

 

[Rob01]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Get the 15x. Call it a learning lesson.

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Point taken on my stupid question

5-25 it is

 

[300ATT]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

If weight is an issue go with the light tactical. If it will make you sleep better at night to have 25x get that one as the 3-15x PR is about the same weight as the 5-25x.

Good shooting ...

 

[cdopson]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

You don't need 25 + power to shoot 1k. 15 is a graceous plenty. However, if you have plans for a .338 or 50 in the future go for it. I don't have the experience or skill as most of the guys here but I like the USO SN3 3.2-17. GAP or MPR reticle with EREK elevation and you're set. The other bells and whistles are up to you of course.

 

[bforney1984]

Re: Rookie, PLEASE HELP! Tactical vs Long Range scope?

Dammit Greedy you throw a wrench into my plans! That's what I was thinking before this recent premier kick!!!