Ruger Precision Rifle Discussion

#5,101
drcook said:
I am starting to get my .308 dialed in. This is 43.3 gr of Varget, 2.800 overall length, 168 gr Sierra HPBT. If I can quit shaking the rifle will shoot. Yesterday my blood sugar dropped which causes the shakes for me. Sometimes my hands shake so bad you would think that I have Parkinson's. Its like I run out of gas.

I just bought 100 of the new 169 gr bullets to try.

Oh, this was at 200 yards. Off a bipod. Eventually I would like to get a 24" barrel for this gun.

View attachment 7577607
Click to expand...

I did a ladder work up for my .308 RPR Gen2 just the other day to find a load for the new 169 SMK's (see pics below) using both my IMR 4064 and H4895. Though I struggle a lot with my prescription glasses in keeping a consistent sight picture, most of the time I can get good results. I loaded them where the COAL is 2.929, which was ~ .011 off the lands of my 24" Krieger barrel that now has over 5,000 rounds fired through it. Sunday I went out to confirm the loads that the ladder suggested were good and fired them at 200 yds. Sure enough, they worked really well and my best 5 round groups using 43.2 grs of IMR4064 were in the 1's. 43.9 grs of H4895 gave me the best group I've ever shot, what was .017 in @100 yds in this initial test. That was so good I felt like that was probably an abortion so of course I had to test that one more time and at 200 yds a 5 shot group of .340 with average MV of 2792 fps according to the LabRadar. And with the data put into my phone app Strelock Pro, it looks like this load for the 169 SMKs will do well long distance as it will stay supersonic out past 1200 yds. The 43.2 gr of 4064 worked very well again with an MV @ 2715 fps. So, I'm good to go with the 169 SMK's . . . if we can ever get more of them. 🤷‍♂️ ;)

169 SMK - IMR 4064 load developmenta.jpg
169 SMK - IMR 4064 load development.jpg
 
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#5,103
straightshooter1 said:
I did a ladder work up for my .308 RPR Gen2 just the other day to find a load for the new 169 SMK's (see pics below) using both my IMR 4064 and H4895. Though I struggle a lot with my prescription glasses in keeping a consistent sight picture, most of the time I can get good results. I loaded them where the COAL is 2.929, which was ~ .011 off the lands of my 24" Krieger barrel that now has over 5,000 rounds fired through it. Sunday I went out to confirm the loads that the ladder suggested were good and fired them at 200 yds. Sure enough, they worked really well and my best 5 round groups using 43.2 grs of IMR4064 were in the 1's. 43.9 grs of H4895 gave me the best group I've ever shot, what was .017 in @100 yds in this initial test. That was so good I felt like that was probably an abortion so of course I had to test that one more time and at 200 yds a 5 shot group of .340 with average MV of 2792 fps according to the LabRadar. And with the data put into my phone app Strelock Pro, it looks like this load for the 169 SMKs will do well long distance as it will stay supersonic out past 1200 yds. The 43.2 gr of 4064 worked very well again with an MV @ 2715 fps. So, I'm good to go with the 169 SMK's . . . if we can ever get more of them. 🤷‍♂️ ;)

View attachment 7577686View attachment 7577687
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Great info! I’ve had great luck in the 43gr range with the 168’s so that’s good that the 169’s will like them too!
 
#5,104
Now, I haven't loaded 308 in a number of years but one thing I do remember really sticks out.
I had been using 168 SMK for a couple of summers and having good results. Problem was my cold, clean bore shot zero was off a bit from the remainder of the group. Without fail the first round was zero, the rest of the group was off a little, always opening my groups to around 1 moa. If I left the bore dirty the rig would shoot 1/2 moa all day long. If I cleaned it the second round and up would move.
In an effort to combat this I tried a few different bullets and the one I settled on was Nosler 168 J4 jacket. That bullet would shoot cold, clean bore zero with all rounds following exactly. No more open groups on a clean bore, they all grouped just like the rifle had never been cleaned.
 
#5,107
Hey guys, very new to snipers hide and I’m enjoying all the resources. I recently got into long distance shooting as well as reloading. One of the first things I realized was that my factory magazine isn’t deep enough where I can seat my bullets a few thousandths off the lands. So a few questions here:

1) Has anyone found magazines for the RPR that will accommodate longer bullets or a shorter seating depth.

2) How far off the lands is a safe but proven measurement?

Thanks everyone!
 
#5,108
There Is a product called the bob sled that will allow you to load one round at a time.
I’ve been told to load .020 off but here is an interesting post on jamming the lands.

www.snipershide.com

Hand Loading for Long Range 3: finding start OAL

Chapter 3: "Where’s my rilflings and where should I put them?" So having prepped and primed our brass & sorted our bullets into identical lots now we need to know at what overall length we need to seat the bullet into the case. How do we figure that out? Well there are a few ways to establish a...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
 
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#5,109
Justgoingdownrange87 said:
Hey guys, very new to snipers hide and I’m enjoying all the resources. I recently got into long distance shooting as well as reloading. One of the first things I realized was that my factory magazine isn’t deep enough where I can seat my bullets a few thousandths off the lands. So a few questions here:

1) Has anyone found magazines for the RPR that will accommodate longer bullets or a shorter seating depth.

2) How far off the lands is a safe but proven measurement?

Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...

I can't answer #2.
For #1 I have a couple of different AICS mags and the ARC 10rd mags have been functioning 100% for me. I load the Nosler 130gr RDF .030" off and have plenty of room to jam the rifling if I wanted to.
 
#5,110
Justgoingdownrange87 said:
Hey guys, very new to snipers hide and I’m enjoying all the resources. I recently got into long distance shooting as well as reloading. One of the first things I realized was that my factory magazine isn’t deep enough where I can seat my bullets a few thousandths off the lands. So a few questions here:

1) Has anyone found magazines for the RPR that will accommodate longer bullets or a shorter seating depth.

2) How far off the lands is a safe but proven measurement?

Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...
As far as #1 goes I am having a single shot mag block tested right now. I am not sure about the RPR's, but my long range rifle's all require single round feeding when loading out to the lands, unless you have a chamber put in that has a short throat.
 

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#5,111
Justgoingdownrange87 said:
Hey guys, very new to snipers hide and I’m enjoying all the resources. I recently got into long distance shooting as well as reloading. One of the first things I realized was that my factory magazine isn’t deep enough where I can seat my bullets a few thousandths off the lands. So a few questions here:

1) Has anyone found magazines for the RPR that will accommodate longer bullets or a shorter seating depth.

2) How far off the lands is a safe but proven measurement?

Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...
I generally start at mag length, and then work my way in from there testing my seating depth. Depending on the bullets I have gotten plenty of precision anywhere from .080" to .140" off the lands.
 
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#5,112
Justgoingdownrange87 said:
Hey guys, very new to snipers hide and I’m enjoying all the resources. I recently got into long distance shooting as well as reloading. One of the first things I realized was that my factory magazine isn’t deep enough where I can seat my bullets a few thousandths off the lands. So a few questions here:

1) Has anyone found magazines for the RPR that will accommodate longer bullets or a shorter seating depth.
Click to expand...

When you refer to "seating depth" I take it your actually referring to shorter jump. Seating depth is how far you seat a bullet into the case. :)

Anyway, there ARE mags out there for the RPR that will allow you to seat bullets longer. They are typically made of metal and I'm sorry I don't remember which ones. But keep searching and asking and I'm sure someone will be able help. I have a mag for my .308 RPR that allows me to seat the bullet quite long (like out to 2.945"), but that company is out of business now.

Maybe this YouTube video might be of some help:





Justgoingdownrange87 said:
2) How far off the lands is a safe but proven measurement?
Click to expand...

You can be all the way touching the lands and be safe, but it all depends on the powder load you're using. Very often .010 off the lands works very well for a lot of guns and it works very well for me with various loads. But I've found I don't try to keep it there as it's been more important keeping an accurate load by keeping the same cartridge measurement even as the jump increases with the throat erosion. For example, with my 168 SMK's I started at .010 off the lands and I'm still getting really good results even though the throat has eroded to where I'm now .063 off the lands. So, I'd recommend you simply find a seating depth that works well for your gun and keep it there for a long as the accuracy remains.

You may find the 4 articles here about bullet jump of interest:

precisionrifleblog.com

Bullet Jump: Is Less Always Better?

About 2 years ago, Mark Gordon shared some preliminary research he’d conducted with the Applied Bal...
precisionrifleblog.com precisionrifleblog.com
 
Last edited:
#5,113
Justgoingdownrange87 said:
Hey guys, very new to snipers hide and I’m enjoying all the resources. I recently got into long distance shooting as well as reloading. One of the first things I realized was that my factory magazine isn’t deep enough where I can seat my bullets a few thousandths off the lands. So a few questions here:

1) Has anyone found magazines for the RPR that will accommodate longer bullets or a shorter seating depth.

2) How far off the lands is a safe but proven measurement?

Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...
What generation and what caliber are you shooting? My RPR is a gen 3 300WM, and mine uses aics mags that allow me to jam everything if desired. Tha max oal for my mags is 3.850". If I loaded that long, the bullet would fall out of the case. 😁
 
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#5,114
NCHillbilly said:
What generation and what caliber are you shooting? My RPR is a gen 3 300WM, and mine uses aics mags that allow me to jam everything if desired. Tha max oal for my mags is 3.850". If I loaded that long, the bullet would fall out of the case. 😁
Click to expand...
Gen 2 6.5 creedmoor. Factory amo is a hair off from touching the inside of the mag. I think I may try an AICS mag.
 
#5,115
straightshooter1 said:
When you refer to "seating depth" I take it your actually referring to shorter jump. Seating depth is how far you seat a bullet into the case. :)

Anyway, there ARE mags out there for the RPR that will allow you to seat bullets longer. They are typically made of metal and I'm sorry I don't remember which ones. But keep searching and asking and I'm sure someone will be able help. I have a mag for my .308 RPR that allows me to seat the bullet quite long (like out to 2.945"), but that company is out of business now.

Maybe this YouTube video might be of some help:







You can be all the way touching the lands and be safe, but it all depends on the powder load you're using. Very often .010 off the lands works very well for a lot of guns and it works very well for me with various loads. But I've found I don't try to keep it there as it's been more important keeping an accurate load by keeping the same cartridge measurement even as the jump increases with the throat erosion. For example, with my 168 SMK's I started at .010 off the lands and I'm still getting really good results even though the throat has eroded to where I'm now .063 off the lands. So, I'd recommend you simply find a seating depth that works well for your gun and keep it there for a long as the accuracy remains.

You may find the 4 articles here about bullet jump of interest:

precisionrifleblog.com

Bullet Jump: Is Less Always Better?

About 2 years ago, Mark Gordon shared some preliminary research he’d conducted with the Applied Bal...
precisionrifleblog.com precisionrifleblog.com
Click to expand...
 
#5,117
Justgoingdownrange87 said:
Hey guys, very new to snipers hide and I’m enjoying all the resources. I recently got into long distance shooting as well as reloading. One of the first things I realized was that my factory magazine isn’t deep enough where I can seat my bullets a few thousandths off the lands. So a few questions here:

1) Has anyone found magazines for the RPR that will accommodate longer bullets or a shorter seating depth.

2) How far off the lands is a safe but proven measurement?

Thanks everyone!
Click to expand...
I’m loading my rounds to mag length but I use a Bob Sled as some ranges require me to single feed. They’re very nice. Very smooth.
 
#5,118
Just purchased a RPR in 300 Win Mag ,Atlas Bipod, Vortex 5X25X50 w 34mm tube Mildot scope, waiting for my surefire muzzle breaks and blast director. Plan to change the trigger to a 2 stage Timmney trigger break in the barrel then pray enough Republicans have the balls to stand up to the Demonrats and I will be able to freely purchase enough ammo to hit a few schools and hopefully make a decent attempt to hit a target at a mile. Common availability of ammo led me to .300WM rather than the more potent .300PRC or .300 Norma Mag.
 
#5,119
Justgoingdownrange87 said:
Gen 2 6.5 creedmoor. Factory amo is a hair off from touching the inside of the mag. I think I may try an AICS mag.
Click to expand...
Not to create a rabbit trail, but I have a Savage 300 WinMag with the AICS mag also, but that 3.850" dimension stamped into it is the outside measurement of the magazine, not the length of the cartridge that will fit it. My COAL is 3.750" and it wont clear the inside of the magazine.
 
#5,120
Hi Everyone,

New member and precision rifle owner here. Recently bought a rpr 6.5cr and a vortex Razor HD Gen 2 4.5 x27 x56 and I'm really struggling on mounts and bipod.

Bipod: Everything I read, points to an atlas bipod but which one are most of you using. I've seen some mention the 5H

Mounts: I'm going just about crazy here. One day I lean towards rings, the next day a single piece mount, then the next day towards QD single mount. I don't know if I want to spend the money for a spuhr and have looked at Larue LT111. Then I say if I am going QD, I may as well go rings and save some weight and cost.

Overall, I would like to do a mix of precision shooting and maybe a bit of hunting. I tend not to be someone who will be reckless carrying the rifle but also don't mind a bit of weight. I also like the idea of being able to use the scope / mount and bipod on a future purchase.

Any suggestions is greatly appreciated. Especially with model numbers as my wife will kill me and my head will explode if I read much more before firing this rifle for its first time.

Thx

Mcbain
 
#5,121
mcbain1999 said:
Hi Everyone,

New member and precision rifle owner here. Recently bought a rpr 6.5cr and a vortex Razor HD Gen 2 4.5 x27 x56 and I'm really struggling on mounts and bipod.

Bipod: Everything I read, points to an atlas bipod but which one are most of you using. I've seen some mention the 5H

Mounts: I'm going just about crazy here. One day I lean towards rings, the next day a single piece mount, then the next day towards QD single mount. I don't know if I want to spend the money for a spuhr and have looked at Larue LT111. Then I say if I am going QD, I may as well go rings and save some weight and cost.

Overall, I would like to do a mix of precision shooting and maybe a bit of hunting. I tend not to be someone who will be reckless carrying the rifle but also don't mind a bit of weight. I also like the idea of being able to use the scope / mount and bipod on a future purchase.

Any suggestions is greatly appreciated. Especially with model numbers as my wife will kill me and my head will explode if I read much more before firing this rifle for its first time.

Thx

Mcbain
Click to expand...

For mounting your scope, I'd highly recommend the Burris XTR Signature Rings. It's really nice in having the inserts that you can use to have just the amount of elevation adjustment you want in additions to the RPR's 20 MOA rail. I've had this set of rings on my RPR since I bought and and currently have over 8,500 .308 rounds fired and the rings have stayed firm with no issue of them working loose. That adjustability helps over time when trying on different scopes that may not have enough elevation adjustment to suit your needs.

www.brownells.com

BURRIS XTR SIGNATURE RINGS | Brownells

Unique, self-centering, dual steel clamps with full cross-through connection assure proper center on any width Picatinny rail, while adding extra strength. Burris XTR rings ONLY fit a Picatinny style rail. Revolutionary Pos-Align® Inserts technolo...
www.brownells.com www.brownells.com


I haven't used an Atlas bipod, so I can't make a suggestion there. Though, if I were going to get one, I'd probably buy this one:

www.midwayusa.com

Atlas BT65-LW17 CAL Gen 2 Bipod Picatinny Rail Mount 4.75-9 Inches

The Atlas BT65-LW17 CAL Gen 2 Bipod mounts directly to any 1913 style Picatinny rail via the included ADM-170-S Lever. It is comprised of 6061-T6...
www.midwayusa.com www.midwayusa.com
 
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#5,122
mcbain1999 said:
Hi Everyone,

New member and precision rifle owner here. Recently bought a rpr 6.5cr and a vortex Razor HD Gen 2 4.5 x27 x56 and I'm really struggling on mounts and bipod.

Bipod: Everything I read, points to an atlas bipod but which one are most of you using. I've seen some mention the 5H

Mounts: I'm going just about crazy here. One day I lean towards rings, the next day a single piece mount, then the next day towards QD single mount. I don't know if I want to spend the money for a spuhr and have looked at Larue LT111. Then I say if I am going QD, I may as well go rings and save some weight and cost.

Overall, I would like to do a mix of precision shooting and maybe a bit of hunting. I tend not to be someone who will be reckless carrying the rifle but also don't mind a bit of weight. I also like the idea of being able to use the scope / mount and bipod on a future purchase.

Any suggestions is greatly appreciated. Especially with model numbers as my wife will kill me and my head will explode if I read much more before firing this rifle for its first time.

Thx

Mcbain
Click to expand...
I'd recommend a one piece mount. With a quality mount your rings are aligned perfectly and you don't need to worry about lapping, etc.
I'd also avoid Larue (tends to chew up your rail) and QD (are you really going to be swapping it between guns repeatedly during a range session?) since most brands struggle with return to zero. I highly recommend Spuhr. They're bombproof, and if you do need to remove it, it's only 4 bolts and they have excellent RTZ. Personally, I'd recommend a 4302 (10 moa incline) which would give you 30 moa total and help you maximize your elevation for as far as 6.5 can go. It's also 1.5" high to clear a handguard with full rail. You could also do a 4002 (0moa) to just use the 20moa in your rail if you not looking at taking it out as far, or even a 4602 (20moa) if you want to squeeze every last drop of elevation out of that scope (it will handle it, though you might loose a little optical clarity that far from center).
As far as a bipod, you can't go wrong with Atlas.
I'd probably avoid to 5H at least initially, it's a great bipod, but a lot bigger and more expensive than you probably need. I'd stick with a CAL Gen2 like straightshooter posted if you don't need/want the ability to pan (move side to side) or a PRS (bt46) model like I run if you like that feature.
I hope this helps!
 
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#5,123
mcbain1999 said:
Hi Everyone,

New member and precision rifle owner here. Recently bought a rpr 6.5cr and a vortex Razor HD Gen 2 4.5 x27 x56 and I'm really struggling on mounts and bipod.

Bipod: Everything I read, points to an atlas bipod but which one are most of you using. I've seen some mention the 5H

Mounts: I'm going just about crazy here. One day I lean towards rings, the next day a single piece mount, then the next day towards QD single mount. I don't know if I want to spend the money for a spuhr and have looked at Larue LT111.
Click to expand...
I’ve got a Burris AR-Signature QD P.E.P.R mount on mine. Item number 410352 (that’s for a 30mm tube though) and I love it. I like the fact that it gives you inserts to go inside of the scope mount which allows you to add a + 5 through + 40 MOA of can’t. Relatively inexpensive and I enjoy it. Scope hasn’t moved since I’ve had it
image.jpg
 
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#5,126
Justgoingdownrange87 said:
Gen 2 6.5 creedmoor. Factory amo is a hair off from touching the inside of the mag. I think I may try an AICS mag.
Click to expand...
I have the same rig as you do and am I'm planning to use it in F-Class shooting this year. F-Class requires single shot loading, (and no muzzle devises), so I did the PVC modification to the mags converting them to single shot.

I'm assuming the PVC modification has been posted somewhere on this forum, but I'll post what I did.
Cut a piece of 3/4" PVC plastic pipe to the length of the mag, then cut that piece in half lengthwise, sand the edges a tad and insert it into the mag ( the follower holds the PVC pipe up against the lips of the mag), and now your mag is a single shot devise and you can load your rounds as long as you want and the PVC pipe doesn't interfere with the bolt operation. On one of the PVC inserts, I made two cuts about an inch long on one of the ends so as to divide the cuts equal distance along the radiance of the end of the PVC, so the 2 cuts makes 3 tabs on the end that faces the chamber. Slightly bend the middle tab up a bit so as the bolt pushes the round forward, the middle tab lifts the round slightly so it feeds straight into the chamber. It works flawlessly in the AICS mags for 6.5 Creedmoor and I'm going to assume it will work for the .308's as well.

The only problem that I have is that I've been breaking my check weld to watch as I load a round. The chamber opening is big enough to load a round from the prone position without breaking my hold so I'm going to work on that by feel alone. I know there are mags available that allow for longer OAL rounds than what you load in AICS mags, (sorry, I don't remember their name), but they are very pricey. Again, I'm going to shoot F-class so a mag that allow for longer OAL rounds doesn't really work for me.
 
#5,127
mcbain1999 said:
Hi Everyone,

New member and precision rifle owner here. Recently bought a rpr 6.5cr and a vortex Razor HD Gen 2 4.5 x27 x56 and I'm really struggling on mounts and bipod.

Bipod: Everything I read, points to an atlas bipod but which one are most of you using. I've seen some mention the 5H

Mounts: I'm going just about crazy here. One day I lean towards rings, the next day a single piece mount, then the next day towards QD single mount. I don't know if I want to spend the money for a spuhr and have looked at Larue LT111. Then I say if I am going QD, I may as well go rings and save some weight and cost.

Overall, I would like to do a mix of precision shooting and maybe a bit of hunting. I tend not to be someone who will be reckless carrying the rifle but also don't mind a bit of weight. I also like the idea of being able to use the scope / mount and bipod on a future purchase.

Any suggestions is greatly appreciated. Especially with model numbers as my wife will kill me and my head will explode if I read much more before firing this rifle for its first time.

Thx

Mcbain
Click to expand...
I use a Warne one piece mount on both my long range rifle and AR. They are available in QD. I find them to be high quality and extremely solid.
 
#5,128
I've got 6.5/.338 RPR's and I've used the Burris Signature XTR rings on both. Although I didn't need to add anymore moa adjustment with them the availability was there. But I also like the fact that there's never a ring mark on the scope. And the inserts grip great, never had a slippage (I've also used them on other guns for years.
 
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#5,130
pfl338 said:
For those of you interested I now have Single shot mag blocks for the RPR, its based on the pmag 10 lr/ sr. great for load testing and development and for long range matches. If anyone is interested let me know.
View attachment 7587513View attachment 7587514View attachment 7587515View attachment 7587516View attachment 7587517
Click to expand...
These work great, folks. I have one for a 6mmCM, feeds nice and smoothly. Excellent product for a great price. Great seller, buy with confidence.
 
#5,131
Setup a 6.5 creedmoor RPR with the help of some local guys and this was my first range trip trying to make a load for it. One group is right at .500”. Going to see if I can match it tonight and then work from there. 3 rd shot groups @ 100 yds.

What I feel is working good for now is:

.020” off the lands oal is 2.790”
43.0 gns of h4350
120 gn Barnes match burners
Hornady brass with cci 200 primers
 

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#5,133
Tightened up my groups a little last night, I think most of it is the shooter. I did also get some 130 gn Sierra Nevada TMK’s and some 140 gn match burners. Might make a few with 140 gn and see how the perform. Thanks for the advice!
 

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#5,136
AXMC said:
I'd recommend a one piece mount. With a quality mount your rings are aligned perfectly and you don't need to worry about lapping, etc.
I'd also avoid Larue (tends to chew up your rail) and QD (are you really going to be swapping it between guns repeatedly during a range session?) since most brands struggle with return to zero. I highly recommend Spuhr. They're bombproof, and if you do need to remove it, it's only 4 bolts and they have excellent RTZ. Personally, I'd recommend a 4302 (10 moa incline) which would give you 30 moa total and help you maximize your elevation for as far as 6.5 can go. It's also 1.5" high to clear a handguard with full rail. You could also do a 4002 (0moa) to just use the 20moa in your rail if you not looking at taking it out as far, or even a 4602 (20moa) if you want to squeeze every last drop of elevation out of that scope (it will handle it, though you might loose a little optical clarity that far from center).
As far as a bipod, you can't go wrong with Atlas.
I'd probably avoid to 5H at least initially, it's a great bipod, but a lot bigger and more expensive than you probably need. I'd stick with a CAL Gen2 like straightshooter posted if you don't need/want the ability to pan (move side to side) or a PRS (bt46) model like I run if you like that feature.
I hope this helps!
Click to expand...
Thanks for this breakdown of the spuhr mounts. I think I am going to go with one of the spuhrs and save a bit of money on the bipod. Excuse my ignorance of math but what are the avg distance range for the 4002 mount with 0 MOA and the 4302 with 10 MOA?

Because of where I live, I will mostly be shooting 300 or less yds and don't have any options of 1000yd ranges without driving a few hours. I really want to be able to take my rpr out as far as it will go from time to time but if I get the 4302 mount with 10 MOA what will that do to my 300 yd and less shooting?

Thx
 
#5,138
ilaybrk said:
My 6.5 loves the 144 Berger Hybrids. out to 1000 4moa less than my Hornady 147 match
Click to expand...
Both my 6.5’s shoot really great with bullets in the 143/144 gr range. Seems to be the sweet spot for my riles. Going to try different brands of 130’s next week, but it is hard to get away from 144 Bergers in the RPR and 144 Sierra Match Kings in the MPA Pro.
 
#5,142
mcbain1999 said:
Is there no trade off? Why wouldn’t everyone just get the mount with 20 Moa?
I’m sure I’m missing something simple here.
Click to expand...
The trade off only comes when your total mounting MOA additive approaches or exceeds 1/2 of the total elevation range in your scope.

As an example, if your scope has 80 MOA of total internal elevation adjustment range, and you assume that a typical 100 yard zero would be in the middle of that range (with 0 MOA added by rail or mount), then you would have 40 MOA of 'up' adjustment and 40 MOA of 'down' adjustment. If you add 40 MOA with your mounting (20 MOA rail and 20 MOA mount), then you are transferring that 40 MOA from the 'down' side (which is generally useless) to the 'up' side of the adjustability of your scope where it is most useful.

Another example would be a scope with 100 MOA of elevation adjustment and that same 40 MOA of mount would take 40 from the 'down' side and add it to the 'up' side giving you 10 MOA of useless 'down' and 90 MOA of useful 'up'.

The problem with using the maximum mounting MOA add on is that puts your reticle at the zero setting nearer to the edge of the scopes lens and is not as optically clear as it would be closer to the center. The second example above would keep you 10 MOA (worth of internal travel) away from the edge of the optical limit.

Also, on a lot of scopes, you lose some windage adjustment when near the limits of vertical adjustment just because the reticle mechanicals are mounted inside of a round tube (at least that is my understanding of the reason for that loss).
 
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#5,143
hdmunger said:
The trade off only comes when your total mounting MOA additive approaches or exceeds 1/2 of the total elevation range in your scope.

As an example, if your scope has 80 MOA of total internal elevation adjustment range, and you assume that a typical 100 yard zero would be in the middle of that range (with 0 MOA added by rail or mount), then you would have 40 MOA of 'up' adjustment and 40 MOA of 'down' adjustment. If you add 40 MOA with your mounting (20 MOA rail and 20 MOA mount), then you are transferring that 40 MOA from the 'down' side (which is generally useless) to the 'up' side of the adjustability of your scope where is is most useful.

Another example would be a scope with 100 MOA of elevation adjustment and that same 40 MOA of mount would take 40 from the 'down' side and add it to the 'up' side giving you 10 MOA of useless 'down' and 90 MOA of useful 'up'.

The problem with using the maximum mounting MOA add on is that puts your reticle at the zero setting nearer to the edge of the scopes lens and is not as optically clear as it would be closer to the center. The second example above would keep you 10 MOA (worth of internal travel) away from the edge of the optical limit.

Also, on a lot of scopes, you lose some windage adjustment when near the limits of vertical adjustment just because the reticle mechanicals are mounted inside of a round tube (at least that is my understanding of the reason for that loss).
Click to expand...
Really appreciate all the information here. It's starting to make more sense. And here I thought math was all done after college.
The scope I'm waiting to receive is a vortex razor HD Gen 2 4.5x27x56 from Scott at liberty optics. Which spuhr mount would you suggest to balance optical clarity and shooting longer distances. The 4002 (0moa), 4302 (10 moa). It sounds like the 4602 (20moa) may be to much considering there is already 20 MOA on the rifle.
 
#5,144
mcbain1999 said:
Really appreciate all the information here. It's starting to make more sense. And here I thought math was all done after college.
The scope I'm waiting to receive is a vortex razor HD Gen 2 4.5x27x56 from Scott at liberty optics. Which spuhr mount would you suggest to balance optical clarity and shooting longer distances. The 4002 (0moa), 4302 (10 moa). It sounds like the 4602 (20moa) may be to much considering there is already 20 MOA on the rifle.
Click to expand...
I would go with either the 0 moa or at most the 10 moa.
 
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#5,145
mcbain1999 said:
Really appreciate all the information here. It's starting to make more sense. And here I thought math was all done after college.
The scope I'm waiting to receive is a vortex razor HD Gen 2 4.5x27x56 from Scott at liberty optics. Which spuhr mount would you suggest to balance optical clarity and shooting longer distances. The 4002 (0moa), 4302 (10 moa). It sounds like the 4602 (20moa) may be to much considering there is already 20 MOA on the rifle.
Click to expand...
I've got the same scope and I've got the 4002 0 MOA SPUHR on mine. No problem with getting out to 1,000.
 
#5,146
I agree with both of the above. Either the 0 MOA or the 10 MOA would be more than adequate, but I would probably go with the 0 MOA in your situation (300 or less, occasionally out to 1000).

The existing 20 MOA rail will give you about 70 MOA of 'up' on that scope (looks like about 100 MOA of internal adjustment on that model), which is PLENTY to get you way beyond 1000 yards and keeps you closer to the optical center of the lens for the shorter distances you would mostly be shooting.
 
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#5,147
hdmunger said:
I agree with both of the above. Either the 0 MOA or the 10 MOA would be more than adequate, but I would probably go with the 0 MOA in your situation (300 or less, occasionally out to 1000).

The existing 20 MOA rail will give you about 70 MOA of 'up' on that scope (looks like about 100 MOA of internal adjustment on that model), which is PLENTY to get you way beyond 1000 yards and keeps you closer to the optical center of the lens for the shorter distances you would mostly be shooting.
Click to expand...
Is there a "sweepspot" correlation for this particular setup with the Vortex Gen 2 Hd 4.5x27x56.

Something like:
0 MOA - best between 100-1200yds
10 MOA best between 300 - 1800yds
 
#5,148
mcbain1999 said:
Is there a "sweepspot" correlation for this particular setup with the Vortex Gen 2 Hd 4.5x27x56.

Something like:
0 MOA - best between 100-1200yds
10 MOA best between 300 - 1800yds
Click to expand...
You should always zero at 100 yards (imo). If your hunting and want your scope 'zeroed' at say 200 yards, then just dial the scope to the 200 yard setting and leave it there while you hunt.

As far as 0 MOA vs. 10 MOA, go to the following link, select your bullet from the drop down list at the top, enter your muzzle velocity and any other information you think pertinent (I suggest setting longest range to 2000 yards so you can see where you go subsonic) and then hit 'Calculate'. This should give you a good idea of the effective range of your bullet...you'll see that 70 MOA is plenty, but if you think 80 MOA of 'up' would be better, then there's your answer.

JBM - Calculations - Trajectory (Simplified)

www.jbmballistics.com www.jbmballistics.com
 
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