Run what you brung

[Tomas204]

I am a huge fan of the internet, but there is to much BS/good info out there, these youngin's, should just learn about what they have tune, it up and do your best, unless you have boat loads of money, just learn proper shooting habbits with the rifle you have.

JMHO What do you other oldtimes have to say ????????????????????????

 

[Ol' RD]

Learning proper shooting technique and your rifles characteristics is great but the young bucks need to push the envelope just the same as their fathers before them. The technology is here let them benefit from it. JMHO.

 

[peaceatwar]

Us "youngin's" as you call it also have vast knowledge in forming complete sentances.

 

[Ol' RD]

Us "youngin's" as you call it also have vast knowledge in forming complete sentances.

LOL! Be respectful young buck. LOL!

 

[CMH]

Us "youngin's" as you call it also have vast knowledge in forming complete sentances.

But apparently we are still lacking in the spell check department.

 

[hk dave]

But apparently we are still lacking in the spell check department.

L O L, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[blcouch]

Darn tootin'! If we'd jest go back to falling block black powder rifles chambered in half-inch bullets we wouldn't be needin' no harus' and kesterls. Just throw some grass in the air and look at the vane on top the barn!

Seriously, it seems to get to be too much with the latest chassis of the week and 4-6000 dollar scopes becoming an increasing reality but to a degree this is the road that gets us from smoothbore round ball shooters to rifles sending pointy things that fly better than aircraft with the same amount of fuel.


The above 'fun-pokin' was borrowed from Quigley incase the young ins were conscrewed.

 

[Huskerhunter]

Honestly the amazing accuracy of out of the box savage rifles, with decent (accu) triggers makes it easer than ever to simply get out and shoot. When I started out, a 1/2 MOA AR style rifle was a Chupacabra.

After 30 years of shooting I wish I had spent more time shooting from something other than the bench and learining to dope the wind, and less time fiddling with loads for too many rifles. But Lord I do love all my rifles.

 

[George Az]

From a guy who has the original Bob Pease ring bound books through today, there is some truth to what you say. There is nothing like trigger time, reading wind and learning mirage. you can judge wind after a while without a kestrel, you can learn to estimate range; these things take practice. Too much shooting is done prone behind a 15 plus pound rifle. I don't want to be humping seriously heavy stuff when I have to pack out meat. I don't see much difference between putting rounds in a 8 inch circle vs rounds in a buck (deer). One is serious though because you owe that animal a clean and humane kill. You want good tasting meat.

Almost any gun, from a lowly Savage Axis to the most expensive rifle has little things that make them shoot better. Every shooter has their biggest obstacle to overcome -YOURSELF. I met Gunny Hathcock and heard him speak on more than one occasion, he didn't give a darn what you were shooting, shoot to the best of your ability. Always, Every time.

 

[dieselgeek]

I am a huge fan of the internet, but there is to much BS/good info out there, these youngin's, should just learn about what they have tune, it up and do your best, unless you have boat loads of money, just learn proper shooting habbits with the rifle you have.

JMHO What do you other oldtimes have to say ????????????????????????

I'd guess I'd be considered young. The internet might have some false or BS information, but it sure is a way to squash BS as well.

If all I knew is what my grandfather taught me about shooting I'd be pretty far behind the curve. I have tons of respect for my grandfather, but he was just misinformed a few times over the years.

I've been lucky to meet some very friendly, helpful, and excelent shooters that have helped me become a much better shooter, and make some good choices on equipment I've bought.


Had I just "run what I brung" since my first match, I'd prob still be finishing last place.

First match

20 inch .308 w/ factory barrel
NO detach mags ( must load on the line)
Mil/MOA scope
rifle unbedded in stock.
cheap bipod, that was to tall
crappy rings
Carry sling, not a shooting sling.
No LOP or comb height adjustment.

Last Match.

26 inch .260
Muzzle brake that's effective
10 round detachable mags.
tact bolt knob,
20 MOA rail
Nice badger rings.
FFP mil/mil scope.
Proper bipod.

 

[Tomas204]

But apparently we are still lacking in the spell check department.

Didn't know there was spelling police , ya got what I wrote ??.

What I am saying is ome of the young kid's out there seem to need a 5-7K shooting rig, and the net feeds this ( I have 1 ) he has several fine rifles, and a little tweaking they will shoot, fine 1/2MOA but he now thinks a new AI SA or some other farkled out gun is better, yes it is, but budget is lacking at this time, and he needs to see that, and enjoy shooting not shopping.

 

[Tomas204]

But apparently we are still lacking in the spell check department.

Didn't know there was spelling police , ya got what I wrote ??.

What I am saying is some of the young kid's out there seem to need a 5-7K shooting rig, and the net feeds this ( I have 1 ) he has several fine rifles, and a little tweaking they will shoot, fine 1/2MOA but he now thinks a new AI SA or some other farkled out gun is better, yes it is, but budget is lacking at this time, and he needs to see that, and enjoy shooting not shopping.

 

[dieselgeek]

Didn't know there was spelling police , ya got what I wrote ??.

What I am saying is ome of the young kid's out there seem to need a 5-7K shooting rig, and the net feeds this ( I have 1 ) he has several fine rifles, and a little tweaking they will shoot, fine 1/2MOA but he now thinks a new AI SA or some other farkled out gun is better, yes it is, but budget is lacking at this time, and he needs to see that, and enjoy shooting not shopping.

I can understand that, but no reason to not have the right tool for the job.

 

[George Az]

that VTR wasn't so bad though - it is no .260 at thrice the price. On the VTR you could have bedded the action, bottom metal and mags for about $250, better bipod and sling - which it looks like you picked up. I think what Tomas is at least trying to say is there is something to be said for just shooting, and you have to have something to start with, to begin with. Most of us, our father's and grandpa's may have known about some shooting, but there is/was a lot of bad habits. Maybe you got the enjoyment from the hunt or shooting from one of them, but it doesn't mean they knew what they were doing.

On the other hand there is a whole lot to be said for trigger control, breathing, alignment, scope alignment, proper position, and swagging stuff that takes a while to learn. I know most of the newer shooters have the kestrel, pda, and really good glass and it works and works welll. But there is something to be said for practice - PROPER practice.

 

[Punisher29073]

My guess is at one time someone was saying that about the rifle you load on Sunday and shoot all week long, and guns with rifled barrels, and percussion cap guns, etc... That is a timeless point of view I believe.

Ryan

 

[Strive4More]

Some guys like driving a Ferrari and some like a minivan. The minivan will get you point a to b as good if not better (IE increased cargo/ better MPG). Some people have a passion and spend their money on it. Some of us younger guys like owning a plethora of weapons that are the tops of their respective games. In the past 6 months Ive bought a Nighthawk 1911, Larue OBR, DTA, and a Surgeon Scalpel is in the mail to me now. Maybe it will give me that warm fuzzy where it'll have a permanent place in my safe. If not, it'll be sold and I'll get something else. It could be worse... he could be donating his money to the Brady Fund!

 

[dieselgeek]

that VTR wasn't so bad though - it is no .260 at thrice the price. On the VTR you could have bedded the action, bottom metal and mags for about $250, better bipod and sling - which it looks like you picked up. I think what Tomas is at least trying to say is there is something to be said for just shooting, and you have to have something to start with, to begin with. Most of us, our father's and grandpa's may have known about some shooting, but there is/was a lot of bad habits. Maybe you got the enjoyment from the hunt or shooting from one of them, but it doesn't mean they knew what they were doing.

On the other hand there is a whole lot to be said for trigger control, breathing, alignment, scope alignment, proper position, and swagging stuff that takes a while to learn. I know most of the newer shooters have the kestrel, pda, and really good glass and it works and works welll. But there is something to be said for practice - PROPER practice.

Yes, you need BOTH, I agree with that.

On the VTR you could have bedded the action, bottom metal and mags for about $250, better bipod and sling - which it looks like you picked up.

Bedding Bottom metal and mags is more to the tune of $500+ at a minium. Bipod and sling $150ish.

Then again, that's not running what you brunnin.

 

[northern50]

When I got into shooting the one phrase a good friend told me to remember was " Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear." as we were driving to Nebraska to shoot a 1000 yard match with the .50's. That phrase is universal in life.

Like any other sport, get into it with good beginner / basic tools and if you enjoy it build from there. I have been at this game for about six years now and have moved up in quality if equipment. Be smart about your purchases and buy what's needed you will do fine. Also, practice with good solid basic equipment gets you a lot farther than owning high end equipment you can't shoot.

Shoot, have fun, enjoy the sport, share it with someone else.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

i've been saying that for years. its not the bow its the indian.

watch many a full house build get its ass handed to it by a shooter with a remington.

learn to shoot, and learn what you like, then build your rifle. build a gun that works for you and you know why, not just listen to the guy with the highest speed gun.

 

[dieselgeek]

i've been saying that for years. its not the bow its the indian.

watch many a full house build get its ass handed to it by a shooter with a remington.

Many huh? I'm saying you're going to need both. Taking two equal shooters giving one a factory SPS .308 w/ a basic and the other a 6.5/6mm rifle in a bedded Manners/McMillan stock w/ 10 round mags, FFP mil/mil scope, muzzle brake, nice clean breaking trigger etc etc.

I think it's pretty obvious who's going to win. Errry damn time.

Now you can have all of that stuff, and it's not going to make you shoot any better if you don't know how to shoot of course. If you want to be competitive though some of that stuff is pretty much needed.

 

[BoilerUP]

21 posts before this one, and not once did I read "Buy once, cry once"?

SnipersHide, I am disappoint.

....so says the guy rockin' home-built Savages...

 

[steve123]

I am a huge fan of the internet, but there is to much BS/good info out there, these youngin's, should just learn about what they have tune, it up and do your best, unless you have boat loads of money, just learn proper shooting habbits with the rifle you have.

JMHO What do you other oldtimes have to say ????????????????????????

I'm kinda old, early 50's and I definitely don't have boat loads of money or for that matter boat loads of patience either!

Proper tools for the job I say! Is the youngin going to compete? Do long range big game hunting? Try to hit PD's way out there? If so there is a minimum accuracy requirement.

It sucks trying to shoot less than 1moa with a 1.5 moa rifle right??? Remember the days way back when... I was a lucky guy if my factory rifle shot 1 moa, more often than not it took glass bedding, free floating the barrel and working a load to achieve 1 moa. I actually hated it! Especially how much time and money I wasted striving for accuracy. It would have been way cheaper in the long run to have taking a frikken loan out and bought a nice rifle, also much less frustrating!

Nowadays if my custom rifles shoots 1 moa I'm totally disgusted, LOL. They better shoot 1/2 moa or less. Yes they were expensive but damn well worth it!

Does a guy need a $8000 AIAX and $4000 scope ? Nope, but if he can afford it, then great, that's his choice. Does a guy have to jack around with a POS 2 moa rifle, POS scope, POS rings and struggle? Hopefully not! I say to sell something/things, work after school, take out a loan, charge it on a CC, etc and buy as nice a rifle as you can afford or up grade as one can.

I was fortunate enough when I was a boy to live in west Germany, the home of really nice air rifles at that time. I learned to shoot with them and was able to hit a dime at 20 yards because those air rifles were capable of doing so. Everything a kid needs to know about marksmanship with a rifle can be learned with a air rifle or rimfire. Let them start with those and get the fundamentals down, then move up to centerfires. Don't make the kid have to hassle with a POS though.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Many huh? I'm saying you're going to need both. Taking two equal shooters giving one a factory SPS .308 w/ a basic and the other a 6.5/6mm rifle in a bedded Manners/McMillan stock w/ 10 round mags, FFP mil/mil scope, muzzle brake, nice clean breaking trigger etc etc.

I think it's pretty obvious who's going to win. Errry damn time.

Now you can have all of that stuff, and it's not going to make you shoot any better if you don't know how to shoot of course. If you want to be competitive though some of that stuff is pretty much needed.

We are not talking equal shooters we are talking new shooters and ones that have no idea if a chassis will fit them or if they will like a certain stock, wether they like single or two stage triggers, want a 6mm, 6.5, or 7, want to shoot mil/Moa, u don't know the newbs budget either. I'm sick of watching u guys tell every new guy on here to buy a AI or surgeon full build. How about buy a sps 308 and learn to shoot. When I go to sell you'll lose...50 bucks maybe on resale? After putting a couple thousand rounds down range. Weird they will have got into the sport and learned what they like and dislike by that point. Take a newb and give em a Aiax 260 and give someone like wade or chase, George etc a sps and see where they are at. It's not the bow it's the Indian. But what do I know

 

[dieselgeek]

We are not talking equal shooters we are talking new shooters and ones that have no idea if a chassis will fit them or if they will like a certain stock, wether they like single or two stage triggers, want a 6mm, 6.5, or 7, want to shoot mil/Moa, u don't know the newbs budget either. I'm sick of watching u guys tell every new guy on here to buy a AI or surgeon full build. How about buy a sps 308 and learn to shoot. When I go to sell you'll lose...50 bucks maybe on resale? After putting a couple thousand rounds down range. Weird they will have got into the sport and learned what they like and dislike by that point. Take a newb and give em a Aiax 260 and give someone like wade or chase, George etc a sps and see where they are at. It's not the bow it's the Indian. But what do I know

Would they beat the newb? I'm sure, would they suffer at the match. YES. Some things at matches require more than just an SPS tactical and a scope.

Also, all we got from the OP was some broken english saying that we should just run what we brung. Kinda like that we should quit asking questions on a .... FORUM and just run it.

It's not JUST the indian. That's proven w/ better bows vs = indians.

 

[cotntop]

First rifle was a Rem 03, paid 25 bucks and still have her. Built my first shooting bench on a persimmon tree in the hay field 43yr ago. Back then you shot 3 shot groups just to get average of where the rifle shoots. Fortunate to have my own backyard range for years. Always had to hold over for windage and was very good at it, but the young bucks with the programs and scopes were gettin the best of me. Jumped into the world of fancy scopes and ballistic calculators with the young bucks and pulled back up with them. Still love my old shootin irons but these new fangled gadgets are a lot fun. What's so amazing is that shit really works.

 

[DeSnifter]

If you have the money, spend it, you can't take it to the grave with you. I'd rather learn proper shooting techniques on the rifle I actually want, than a rig that will eventually hold me back. Would an SPS work? Sure, but why the hell would I want to do that if I have the money for a TRG instead. That being said, before buying a second rifle I took a Rifles Only course. All it comes down to is how much money someone is willing to spend to shoot a sport they enjoy. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[jamesZ71]

First rifle after a few upgrades
savage 10 20in 308

Second rifle put together one piece at a time over 2 1/2 years.Shot it for a few months and sold it.
24in 6.5 grendel

Third and latest rifle
26in 260 rem with rock creek barrel and timney trigger at 4 onces

Started with a budget rifle then did a full build AR and lastly bought a custom built rifle,but the funny part is that my budget savage it still my go to rifle.

 

[xXlojackXx]

Who cares what us "youngins" are shooting these days. Shoot what you want, I'll shoot what I want and leave her there partner. For you to imply that you wouldn't shoot the latest and greatest technology, assuming you can comfortably afford to do so, is just ignorant and dated. That's like blaming Tiger Woods for not swinging a wooden driver anymore. For me, it's pretty simple. I have a serious passion for the sport of marksmanship and hunting, and I take it fairly serious while enjoying it. That being said, any technology that gives me an edge over the guy next to me in the field or at the range, you can bet I'll be taking advantage of it. Assuming that its not a financial burden. If you want to stick with your dated gear, more power to you brother. And congrats for learning with less advanced techniques and products than I did.

 

[digitalshooter]

Well, it doesn't matter what you shoot if you don't know the fundamentals of marksmanship. You can take a $10,000 setup and put it in the hands of someone that doesn't know how to shoot and they still won't be able to hit the broad side of a barn with it. If someone wants to put down the big bucks when they are first starting out then more power to them. If they don't want to and want to start with a low budget gun then that's their business as well.

The more people rely on technology they might get somewhere until SHTF and that technology dies on them at some point. Computer programs and gadgets will only get you so far.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

What ends up happening is you guys tell some 20 year old kid he needs a surgeon 260 he can't afford to feed and it's for sale 6 months later with 20 rounds through it cuz everyone convinces him he will never stand a chance at a match without it. He won't stand a chance if he can't shoot or call wind either. Yes if u have the money more power to ya but that question is rarely asked. It's always the full custom cuz eventually you'll outgrow it. I know for a fact take 90 percent of the shooters on here off a cement slab with a bipod amd bag and u guys can't out shoot a base r700 308. That's a fact I know I have a lot to work on too and I shoot for a living. I'm not hitting on customs guns only the assumption that its required to enjoy this sport.

 

[AK Sgt Maj]

For a new person who is just starting shooting, they are better off getting a good factory Varmint rifle, Savage, Remington, Winchester, etc., a good scope with click adjustments and spend the other $2000/3000 on ammo or reloading and when the barrel needs changing they should have an idea of what they need or want and be able to use it to it's abilities. Most of the new guys that I see come out with $3000 to $5000 rigs do not come back, because they think all they need is a high dollar rig and some guy with a cheap Savage Tactical hammers them and they don't come back. The factory varmints do work and when the time comes either be upgraded or a new high dollar rig bought, with the knowledge gained from the trigger time, as long as it's not just 100 yards from a bench.
By the way, I'm 70 and learned to shoot at Ft Benning, at the Infantry School, in 1958.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Amen to that brother,

 

[X-fan]

For a new person who is just starting shooting, they are better off getting a good factory Varmint rifle, Savage, Remington, Winchester, etc., a good scope with click adjustments and spend the other $2000/3000 on ammo or reloading and when the barrel needs changing they should have an idea of what they need or want and be able to use it to it's abilities. Most of the new guys that I see come out with $3000 to $5000 rigs do not come back, because they think all they need is a high dollar rig and some guy with a cheap Savage Tactical hammers them and they don't come back. The factory varmints do work and when the time comes either be upgraded or a new high dollar rig bought, with the knowledge gained from the trigger time, as long as it's not just 100 yards from a bench.
By the way, I'm 70 and learned to shoot at Ft Benning, at the Infantry School, in 1958.

Roger that!

I have been to shoots where the top shooter beat out a few hundred thousand dollars worth of gear with nothing more than a dirty old Mauser...maybe $500.00 worth with an old external adjustable scope. I have not seen this happen in some time, but as always it is the driver not the gear.

All that aside I am a founding member of the buy once cry once society.

 

[Drifter™]

Yep, run what you brung... But bring something good.

 

[dieselgeek]

If you have the money, spend it, you can't take it to the grave with you. I'd rather learn proper shooting techniques on the rifle I actually want, than a rig that will eventually hold me back. Would an SPS work? Sure, but why the hell would I want to do that if I have the money for a TRG instead. That being said, before buying a second rifle I took a Rifles Only course. All it comes down to is how much money someone is willing to spend to shoot a sport they enjoy. Nothing wrong with that.

Good money would be spend on training. That's for sure. Trigger time is very important as well. I'm not taking anything from that. I suck less because I've been getting a lot more trigger time. Of course the right trigger time is also what matters. You don't want to keep shooting the wrong way the whole time :/

 

[dieselgeek]

Roger that!

I have been to shoots where the top shooter beat out a few hundred thousand dollars worth of gear with nothing more than a dirty old Mauser...maybe $500.00 worth with an old external adjustable scope. I have not seen this happen in some time, but as always it is the driver not the gear.

All that aside I am a founding member of the buy once cry once society.

Well I'll pay to see an old dirty mauser win a match these days.

 

[X-fan]

Well I'll pay to see an old dirty mauser win a match these days.

It wasn't bone stock. IIRC it had an Obymyer barrel (7X57) and have no doubt the rifle (though fugly) was a ripper.
He shot three targets @ 1000 from 7-11 inches when I was in the pits. His other targets were at least competitive.
Conditions were horrendous. Snow swirling made it easy to see the three distinct wind changes before the targets. Many guys were unable to even get on target.

Put somebody like Terry Cross on that rifle and he will beat you every time.
It could easily happen again...Its just that you don't see crap equipment (in good hands) like that any more.

 

[digitalshooter]

What ends up happening is you guys tell some 20 year old kid he needs a surgeon 260 he can't afford to feed and it's for sale 6 months later with 20 rounds through it cuz everyone convinces him he will never stand a chance at a match without it. He won't stand a chance if he can't shoot or call wind either. Yes if u have the money more power to ya but that question is rarely asked. It's always the full custom cuz eventually you'll outgrow it. I know for a fact take 90 percent of the shooters on here off a cement slab with a bipod amd bag and u guys can't out shoot a base r700 308. That's a fact I know I have a lot to work on too and I shoot for a living. I'm not hitting on customs guns only the assumption that its required to enjoy this sport.

I have to wonder, if they can't feed that Surgeon 260 you are talking about then how in the world could they have afforded the money to buy it in the first place? If they can't afford to feed the rifle then they should have known better than to buy a rig like that in the first place. That's not the fault of anyone on here suggesting that they should by this or that.

 

[digitalshooter]

For a new person who is just starting shooting, they are better off getting a good factory Varmint rifle, Savage, Remington, Winchester, etc., a good scope with click adjustments and spend the other $2000/3000 on ammo or reloading and when the barrel needs changing they should have an idea of what they need or want and be able to use it to it's abilities. Most of the new guys that I see come out with $3000 to $5000 rigs do not come back, because they think all they need is a high dollar rig and some guy with a cheap Savage Tactical hammers them and they don't come back. The factory varmints do work and when the time comes either be upgraded or a new high dollar rig bought, with the knowledge gained from the trigger time, as long as it's not just 100 yards from a bench.
By the way, I'm 70 and learned to shoot at Ft Benning, at the Infantry School, in 1958.

The question is why didn't they come back. I have seen people try something new and really suck at it. Instead of practicing and learning how to do what they are trying they just give up and quit. For folks like that it won't matter if they bought a $100 rifle or a $5,000 rifle, they will quit no matter what you tell them to get because they are the type of people to just give up if they aren't good at it the first time.

 

[turbo54]

There are several affordable match-ready rifles on the market:

Savage 12LRP in 260 or 6.5CM, for under $1000 for example. If you can't connect downrange with one, no AIAW or GAP etc etc is going to save the day

If F class is your game, Savages F/TR rifle and F class rifles are highly competitive. They cost $1250 or so.

High $$ rifles provide some niceties, but nothing "needed" to compete.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

digital your still pushing people to buy something they don't know if they fit or not, how many people on here sell stocks, chassis, etc because they don't work for them? yes if you have the money more power to ya, but alot of people have also proved that built r700's or whichester m70's or FN's, savage etc can be modified and highly competitive and the person will be able to modify as their skill grows and they figure out their taste. if i wanted to teach someone to honestly shoot i would tell them to put their 5000 dollar gun away and put them behind a 22lr at 50 yards and work from there.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Ya know I had this envy too watching the grunts driving in Hummers, wearing a bullet proof body suit that was almost bullet proof vs walking with all your sht on your back and having a vest that might stop a 22lr, I have finally concluded this is a good thing, especially after my son survived two ID's when two Hummers didn't, back in my day I would have been a red smear on the side of a dusty road. He was still using a M2 though hehehe, kind of an old meets new situation. I say if these young bastages can afford it, they should go for it, especially before they get married and start spending their ammo money on the OL and feeding little bastages.The activity accelerates progress in our hobby areas, my other hobby is motorcycles, you aint seen nothing here in the shooting world like the $ spent in the bike world. Highlight of my bike life in he last year is the introduction of self cancelling blinkers on a foreign bike (Triumph Explorer), Harley has mhad them many years now.

Didn't know there was spelling police , ya got what I wrote ??.

What I am saying is ome of the young kid's out there seem to need a 5-7K shooting rig, and the net feeds this ( I have 1 ) he has several fine rifles, and a little tweaking they will shoot, fine 1/2MOA but he now thinks a new AI SA or some other farkled out gun is better, yes it is, but budget is lacking at this time, and he needs to see that, and enjoy shooting not shopping.

 

[Bevan]

I think that

-some places on the internet are great for demystifying things and passing on information
-there are a lot of terrible pieces of "conventional wisdom" which aren't correct which are perpetually passed around, both in real life and on the internet, but less so on some parts of the internet
-practice is important however you must critically analyse what you are doing for real improvement. Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes Perfect.
-gaining experience with a lot of different gear is a good idea before you jump feet-first into the expensive gear pool
-there is a certain level of quality of gear required for success at long range, otherwise you're pushing shit uphill with a pointy stick

I always recommend a person buy used, but good quality and functional equipment for a start, and shoot the shit out of it while using as much different gear as possible, thinking analytically about their results and seeking training wherever possible.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

I think that

-some places on the internet are great for demystifying things and passing on information
-there are a lot of terrible pieces of "conventional wisdom" which aren't correct which are perpetually passed around, both in real life and on the internet, but less so on some parts of the internet
-practice is important however you must critically analyse what you are doing for real improvement. Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes Perfect.
-gaining experience with a lot of different gear is a good idea before you jump feet-first into the expensive gear pool
-there is a certain level of quality of gear required for success at long range, otherwise you're pushing shit uphill with a pointy stick

I always recommend a person buy used, but good quality and functional equipment for a start, and shoot the shit out of it while using as much different gear as possible, thinking analytically about their results and seeking training wherever possible.

i am in no way advocating being content with low end gear or not modifying it ever, i think you put it really well and i agree completely. my point is people on here immediately tell people they need a AIAX or a full surgeon build, while both amazing weapons (i own both) not necessarily the best for a beginner with a budget, if you don't have a budget and want to spend the money on a "starter rig" and get a top of the line weapon awesome more power to ya, but i in no way think you are now that farther along because of the rifle you have or that its the hottest caliber, i shoot my 308's and 223's more then any of my comp caliber guns. i enjoy the challenge more and having to battle the wind.

 

[peaceatwar]

My dumb young gun self started my quest for precision with a SCAR 17-S with a Timney Trigger and a NF 5.5-23x56. That quickly turned into a FN SPR A5M which is still hands down the best factory rifle on the market IMHO. Nothing else has been mass produced and shot so well. Many many people get theirs with a 1/4 MOA test target. Me being a lefty I was always left wanting more. I was extremely fortunate to have the oppurunity to purchase a new lefty crusader in an AICS without having to wait. It's not that a factory Remington couldn't have done the job for me. The GAP just does a better job. I value my time more than anything. I work 50-60 hours a week and thats if I'm not traveling. When I have time off I don't want to spend time messing with my gear or futzing around at the range. I want to compete and I want practice like I play.

My point is, that you get what you pay for and if you invest in yourself and in quality equipment you need to buy and sell anything. You will have everything you need the first time and you won't need to adjust a damn thing about it.

 

[jimmykm21]

i am in no way advocating being content with low end gear or not modifying it ever, i think you put it really well and i agree completely. my point is people on here immediately tell people they need a AIAX or a full surgeon build, while both amazing weapons (i own both) not necessarily the best for a beginner with a budget, if you don't have a budget and want to spend the money on a "starter rig" and get a top of the line weapon awesome more power to ya, but i in no way think you are now that farther along because of the rifle you have or that its the hottest caliber, i shoot my 308's and 223's more then any of my comp caliber guns. i enjoy the challenge more and having to battle the wind.

I've been a member here for a while and I really haven't read a lot of members telling new shooters to go and buy an AX , a new Surgeon or a GAP.

It's usually quite the opposite. Most new threads of a new shooter asking advise for a first time bolt action purchase is met with a stock Rem 700 , Savage etc..

We do have new shooters and members asking which custom or high end factory rifle they should buy.
But it's usually initiated by the new shooter .

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Evidently u and I have been on diferent boards then

 

[digitalshooter]

If someone on here signs up, says they have $4000 - $5000 for a rifle to buy what do you expect people to say? After all, if they have that kind of money to spend on a rifle then they should be able to afford to shoot it. I've seen the threads where they are asked what their budgets for the rifles are and they are given an answer within that budget. If they can't afford to shoot it after they've bought it then that's on them. Not the members of the board who tell them to go out and buy a custom rifle within the stated budget. Only the person doing the asking knows their financial state. It's not up to anyone on here to ask if they can afford to shoot it after they bought it.

And you're assuming that since they've sold it with only 20 rounds through it that they are selling because they can't afford to shoot it. That might be the reason but there might be other reasons they are selling it as well.

 

[dieselgeek]

I think everyone is going full retard here.


No one tells a noob to get a full build or an AIAX. No one says, You MUST have S&B bro, Only scope to get.


I think things are mentioned like features.

FFP is good for tactical matches, as is detachable bottom metal. A good wind cutting caliber, w/ a practical barrel life. A nice sling, and bipod. Matching reticle, and turrets.

 

[5RWill]

i've been saying that for years. its not the bow its the indian.

watch many a full house build get its ass handed to it by a shooter with a remington.

learn to shoot, and learn what you like, then build your rifle. build a gun that works for you and you know why, not just listen to the guy with the highest speed gun.

Agreed, 99.9% of the time accuracy is derived from the shooter not the weapon.

For a new person who is just starting shooting, they are better off getting a good factory Varmint rifle, Savage, Remington, Winchester, etc., a good scope with click adjustments and spend the other $2000/3000 on ammo or reloading and when the barrel needs changing they should have an idea of what they need or want and be able to use it to it's abilities. Most of the new guys that I see come out with $3000 to $5000 rigs do not come back, because they think all they need is a high dollar rig and some guy with a cheap Savage Tactical hammers them and they don't come back. The factory varmints do work and when the time comes either be upgraded or a new high dollar rig bought, with the knowledge gained from the trigger time, as long as it's not just 100 yards from a bench.
By the way, I'm 70 and learned to shoot at Ft Benning, at the Infantry School, in 1958.

Also agreed.

I take it we're talking 18-25 age group here so i'd definitely be considered young at 22. My rig isn't the most expensive but it could've been a whole lot cheaper in some areas. My SN-3 really adds to cost but i'd have hard time trading it regardless of the situation. Currently the only competition i have participated in is USPSA which i've cut back on recently. Really wanted to go to some practical rifle matches but they're pretty expensive for me. Trying to work on getting a reloading room setup up. Problem is at this stage in life there is just a ton on my plate and shooting takes the back seat to it. My situation isn't bad or anything but i'm two hours away from reloading, shooting any kind of distance, and my land where i don't have to pay to shoot. Couple that with the fact i'm shadowing now and looking to take an tech position come next semester while studying for the MCAT and well shooting will become nonexistent. So yes in my situation cutting back on my rifle budget could have helped me put more money into other necessities and maybe time for shooting. Do I regret it? Right now nope, because this is my favorite hobby and eventually i'll be able to shoot more, hopefully.