Gunsmithing rust bluing.. what am i doing wrong?..

[PlinkIt]

Ok trying my hand at rust bluing using laurel mountain forge formula.. tried this on a few Beretta mags and a stevens 20 I had from when I was a kid.. the color I don't feel bad about I didn't expect a bright blue.. but it is a decent gun metal grey..

Problem though is on the receiver.. I keep getting a rough finish during the rusting process.. I am using the poor mans humidity room and putting a monitor up in the bathroom and after a shower wait until the humidity gets back down to around 80% and use that as my cabinet.. then boiling in distilled water in a stainless pot.. card with a stainless carding brush.. but I still get this rough looking finish.. I wanted it to be a smooth finish and had polished out to 1500 grit and then metal polished on top of that.. and I know the finish was mirror slick when I started this process.. so where did I screw up?...

you will also see it looks like one side came out better than the other so I am very certain it is something I am doing wrong.. but what?..

thanks for any help

 

[M.rolen]

I have not done it in a few years but I think you are polishing to much I believe your suppose to finish with 320 grit.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

You are trying to blue cast steel. It's too porous. You might be able to get a little more sheen with a carding wheel. Brownell's sells one with .005" dia. wire that works good. It will accent the voids (large pores) in the left rear though. Wish you could get back your polishing time.

 

[PlinkIt]

so I really cant go that fine at all with the process then?..

So best bet at this point would be what glass bead blast it and then do it again with blasted finish maybe?..

And yea T.I.T.P. I wish I could get that time back too but its all about learning and best way I can do that is to mess some stuff up lol

I have not done it in a few years but I think you are polishing to much I believe your suppose to finish with 320 grit.

You are trying to blue cast steel. It's too porous. You might be able to get a little more sheen with a carding wheel. Brownell's sells one with .005" dia. wire that works good. It will accent the voids (large pores) in the left rear though. Wish you could get back your polishing time.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

so I really cant go that fine at all with the process then?.

Not with that grade of steel. There is a reason most are color case hardened. You can opt for a hot/salt blue on a high polish but they usually turn purple.

I think you did a damned fine job and would be happy with as is. Puts most of the "commercial" bluers around here to shame ;-)

If I were you, I'd find something more worthy of your time.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

To add,

I use Art's Belgian Blue. Prob the same crap in a diff bottle. ;-)

In the case of your mag, there is little color. Try applying the first 3 or 4 coats in a dry box and card. Then go thru your process.

 

[PlinkIt]

Not with that grade of steel. There is a reason most are color case hardened. You can opt for a hot/salt blue on a high polish but they usually turn purple.

I think you did a damned fine job and would be happy with as is. Puts most of the "commercial" bluers around here to shame ;-)

If I were you, I'd find something more worthy of your time.

wow thanks for the compliment!! and I have a few older guns I have inherited that could use a face lift that's why I am trying to really wrap my self into doing this fairly well.. these are my first tries at it..

To add,

I use Art's Belgian Blue. Prob the same crap in a diff bottle. ;-)

In the case of your mag, there is little color. Try applying the first 3 or 4 coats in a dry box and card. Then go thru your process.

and I will give the Art's BB a try too.. might work better so cant hurt right..

now you are loosing me on the dry box approach?.... you want subtle coats then more aggressive?..

I actually only did about 3 cycles on the mag it was just my first victim if you will.. the receiver was at 8 or 9 cycles I think..

 

[Turd in the Pool]

now you are loosing me on the dry box approach?

Just skip the bathroom humidity and the boil out. Coat and card once a day.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

To clarify a bit; Apply and card the first few coats in 1 step. I use degreased 0000 carbon steel wool. Think it helps promote rust. Once you have it carded, wipe off the steel wool residue and brush an even coat of bluing solution on. Avoid streaks and puddles if you can. They will cause more aggressive rusting. ie, pits.

 

[xs hedspace]

If you don't boil, it will be brown oxide, not black. And the water for boiling must be distilled, or rainwater. The old stevens receiver is case hardened cast steel. Hard to do an even blue on case hardened. Also I hope your carding wheel is slow speed(1750) not 3200 rpm, and the bristles are very thin. My carding wheel is so soft, I can hit my finger with it, and not draw blood. Your job looks decent. If you use steel wool between coats, spray the wool with brakleen first to degrease the wool, and use 000 wool, or 0000.

 

[PlinkIt]

Just skip the bathroom humidity and the boil out. Coat and card once a day.

To clarify a bit; Apply and card the first few coats in 1 step. I use degreased 0000 carbon steel wool. Think it helps promote rust. Once you have it carded, wipe off the steel wool residue and brush an even coat of bluing solution on. Avoid streaks and puddles if you can. They will cause more aggressive rusting. ie, pits.

ok so do 3 or 4 cycles without boiling just rust brown and card.. then start as I was.. rust boil card.. these built up layers of brown will turn just as the single layer of rust?..

If you don't boil, it will be brown oxide, not black. And the water for boiling must be distilled, or rainwater. The old stevens receiver is case hardened cast steel. Hard to do an even blue on case hardened. Also I hope your carding wheel is slow speed(1750) not 3200 rpm, and the bristles are very thin. My carding wheel is so soft, I can hit my finger with it, and not draw blood. Your job looks decent. If you use steel wool between coats, spray the wool with brakleen first to degrease the wool, and use 000 wool, or 0000.

I have been using distilled changing it out at about four or five cycles depending on how much crud is in the water.. not sure if that's even necessary but have been doing it anyway..

and oh yea my carding "wheels" are normally on very slow speed!! don't think its anywhere near 1750RPM (see picture below).. and bristles are .003.. and have been using acetone soaked 0000 wool for the hard to get places.. sometimes attached to bore brush to give a little bit of a handle.. everything soaked in acetone btw..

 

[Turd in the Pool]

ok so do 3 or 4 cycles without boiling just rust brown and card.. then start as I was.. rust boil card.. these built up layers of brown will turn just as the single layer of rust?..

I haven't had an issue with it being brown more than once or twice but boiling turned it black. Technically they're not layers. If you are not carding it back to near bare metal between coats, you are promoting pitting and a more matte finish. I would suggest forgetting the brush and go to a wheel or steel wool.

I made a cabinet with a light bulb in it that I used to put a bowl of water in to give it some humidity. Could do the same thing with a cardboard box. Eventually scrapped the water. Once I get what looks like a decent finish I fire up a bluing tank and finish it.

 

[PlinkIt]

I haven't had an issue with it being brown more than once or twice but boiling turned it black. Technically they're not layers. If you are not carding it back to near bare metal between coats, you are promoting pitting and a more matte finish. I would suggest forgetting the brush and go to a wheel or steel wool.

I made a cabinet with a light bulb in it that I used to put a bowl of water in to give it some humidity. Could do the same thing with a cardboard box. Eventually scrapped the water. Once I get what looks like a decent finish I fire up a bluing tank and finish it.

You mean you leave the water out in later cycles.. Or you just stopped using water in the cabinet period?.. And I may have to use the same formula as you to get that result because this one makes a very red colored rust without boiling... And I was using the hand brushes so I could do this at home every evening without going to my shop because I wouldn't be able to make it there to do a cycle every day if that were the case.. Do you think the brush mounted in a cordless drill would work out?..

Thanks for all the insight BTW, its greatly appreciated!

 

[Kebo57]

Derrick
The replies above are correct to my knowledge about degree of polish....about 320 is perfect and I've found 320 done by hand is way better than 320 on a buffer. The binders/grease in buffing compound are your enemy. The time you allow the chemical to work can also lead to rougher surface finish as its basically etching.
I have color case hardened many Stevens cast frames and they color quite nicely. If that would interest you zip me a PM.

Keith

 

[PlinkIt]

Derrick
The replies above are correct to my knowledge about degree of polish....about 320 is perfect and I've found 320 done by hand is way better than 320 on a buffer. The binders/grease in buffing compound are your enemy. The time you allow the chemical to work can also lead to rougher surface finish as its basically etching.
I have color case hardened many Stevens cast frames and they color quite nicely. If that would interest you zip me a PM.

Keith

thanks Keith

but I am afraid the gun is simply not worth the price of a good color case hardening I do have another I will send something about though..

this whole process is basically for me to learn from as I have several others I would like to give some cosmetic improvement too


anyone know how a media blasted finish will turn out?.. if I were to glass bead blast the receiver and start would that be a good option??

 

[Turd in the Pool]

You mean you leave the water out in later cycles.. Or you just stopped using water in the cabinet period?.. And I may have to use the same formula as you to get that result because this one makes a very red colored rust without boiling... And I was using the hand brushes so I could do this at home every evening without going to my shop because I wouldn't be able to make it there to do a cycle every day if that were the case.. Do you think the brush mounted in a cordless drill would work out?..

Thanks for all the insight BTW, its greatly appreciated!

Sorry for the delay. Frank bitch slapped me again ;-)

No water with the first few coats. Just apply/card with 0000 steel wool. It's been a while since I've done anything but as I remember the only red I got was where the solution was left heavy but it comes off with the next carding application.

Once you have a nice even base finish it with several coats in and out of boiling water. Carding as much of the previous coat off is key.

If you are talking about putting the brushes you show in your pic in a drill, don't try it.

 

[PlinkIt]

Ha no I was referring to the brushes made for the drill press, I'm not crazy enough to put the hand brush in the drill.. At least not today lol... And thanks I will try this next week and see where I get.. Might have some more questions after I screw that one up lol

Thanks again!