Rifle Scopes S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

[19Scout77]

Looking for some feedback about the new S & B 3-20s...from people who are actually using them. I do not care about how they perform off the bench or how good they look on top of your Tac Ops or AX.

Anybody actually use one in a real match or heaven forbid, some scenario in which they get dirty or maybe even scratched??

 

[bm11]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Looking forward to this thread.

 

[swage]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Mine will be here in a couple weeks. Unfortunately my new rifle will not.

 

[Rob01]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

After I get mine I will be able to help out but not yet

 

[poison123]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After I get mine I will be able to help out but not yet

</div></div>

We expect LL quality tests involving tannerite and dropping off a tower.

 

[KYS]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I've got one and had it in a class. It did fine until I noticed it wasn't tracking. Took a closer look at the elevation turret and noticed the set screws had loosened up. Other then that it has been as reliable as the others. But I probably don't have enough hard use with it as I really would like to, cant really form an opinion if it will hold up or not. But being S&B I think it will be fine.

 

[Rob01]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

You will need to get with him about those. I just test them at matches with the usual bumps, bangs, scratches and knob cranking.

 

[srtsam]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

at first i did not care for the new "loosen the 2 screws but the turret still clicks while trying to zero function". LOL, I wasn't sure if I was dialing or zeroing. It took me a bit to get used to it. That said i vastly prefer the 3-20's to the 5-25's. With the newer larger eyebox i find myself keeping both eyes open at short range distances, plus i tend to never shoot at the max magnification anyway and really could not see that much of a difference between the 20x and 25x. Your more than welcome to come down to south jersey and try it out. Currently, the scope is a 3-20 h37 reticle. Not sure, i am digging the h37, as the reticle is thicker than what i like for chasing holes in paper not that it is really for that. Again, at shorter distances not really an issue, but i can definitley see where it would be a problem for long range work.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I have been using mine and I personally don't think it lived up to the wait, or the price tag.

I'm I huge S&B fan and have a lot of them, but feel they did not succeed with this scope.

The locking turrets, terrible, the original DT turrets are better, the view is not as sharp as I would expect, the scope is very big, and I think sticking with a 5-25x is a better choice.

I was let down.

 

[Starbuck]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

For me it was too easy to pull off the elevation turret cap while performing zero adjustment. I couldn't figure out how to reassemble it, so I PM'd Jerry R (on here) at S & B, and now the unit needs to go to him in VA for a warranty repair.

Jerry was firm about not providing instructions for me for me to do the fix at home. This seems needlessly complicated. Shouldn't it be field-serviceable if this shit happens? And I shoot on one-way ranges.

I have two other S & B's, one with a ST turret, and the other with the yellow window DT, and they haven't let me down.

 

[bward]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been using mine and I personally don't think it lived up to the wait, or the price tag.

I'm I huge S&B fan and have a lot of them, but feel they did not succeed with this scope.

The locking turrets, terrible, the original DT turrets are better, the view is not as sharp as I would expect, the scope is very big, and I think sticking with a 5-25x is a better choice.

I was let down. </div></div>

I have a buddy who is a very good shooter and his take away was the same as Lowlight's. He felt as though the 5-25 is still a better scope.

 

[KYS]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

With the ones I have now... I wont buy anymore. Not until they get all this worked out for the better.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

In the interest in full disclosure,

I have had two locking turret scopes go back for repair. One like Starbuck, the turret cap came off after I had no "clicks" when zeroing. It was pretty much fubar out of the box. The second, also had issue immediately where the turret was not releasing the adjustment. So after loosening the screws, the turret was still moving the impact. One was a 3-20x which also had a slight parallax issue that Jerry fixed.

Having been using S&B since early 2000s, with over 10 units owned. I only ever had one needing to be fixed immediately and one that went in for repair after more than 10,000 rounds were fired underneath it. This year alone two brand new scopes require repair, both issues with the new locking turrets.

Still a fan, but not nearly as I once was... In fact I am starting to focus south east of Germany, the attitude as well as the products seem to be much more fitting for me.

 

[Graham]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Having had a bunch of SBs, I, too, have only had one that needed to be fixed immediately out of the box: It was a new 5-25x56 from about five months ago.

I love SB. But I'm not paying the new inflated price for scopes that, when compared to my old ones, in my experience are simply not as good in durability or glass.

I am currently buying up old ones in good shape that I can find, without MTC. Those are a good deal now.

 

[excess]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I just got my 3-20 last week. I've not had a chance to shoot it yet as my rings are a hair too low. Not a scientific comparison, but looking at it side by side with my one year old 5-25 I think it's actually brighter and clearer.

 

[swage]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I wish I would have known this before I ordered mine. I would've went with the 5-25.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Interesting...and noteworthy that LL is the only person reporting who has put one thru anything resembling "its paces".

 

[JL]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Wasnt too impressed either. Tought I was only one, didnt dare to comment..

 

[dbransco]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I should be recieving mine with H2CMR reticle this week. I have been extremely anxious waiting; however, this post sort of bums me out. Hopefully the lack of satisfaction with this scope stems more from S&B's questionable quality control as of recent (which obviously is a bad thing) instead of the 3-20 scopes themselves. Has anyone else done any side-by-side comparisons? I have a hard time believing S&B would introduce this scope with "lesser" quality glass??

 

[RottenII]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I've had my 3-20 on my Creedmore since May. During a range session I swap back in forth with my .308 with the 5-25. I've had zero issues with either scope. I prefer the simple turrets of the 5-25. Glass...I can't tell the difference.
The only advantage Ive found with the 3-20 is it seems easier to settle in behind than the 5-25. Not a huge difference but I certainly notice it.
Overall I'd say Im happy with the 3-20 but I can't say it's better than my 5-25.
This is just the humble opinion of a non competitive "hobbyist"!

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

i've gotten good feedback from the 3-20 scopes I've sold, I know there were some issues with early scopes, but they seem to be ok, i'm not having any issues with mine, but I havn't been able to shoot much lately.

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i've gotten good feedback from the 3-20 scopes I've sold, I know there were some issues with early scopes, but they seem to be ok, i'm not having any issues with mine, but I havn't been able to shoot much lately. </div></div>


that being said, there is no such thing as a good deal on a schmidt and bender anymore and dealer service has been very unsatisfactory to say the least. there are some other good brands out there, like kahles and steiner.

 

[Bluegrass Tactical]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I had one and was not impressed at all. It functioned perfectly but the glass was not anywhere close to what I expected for the price.

 

[bward]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bluegrass Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had one and was not impressed at all. It functioned perfectly but the glass was not anywhere close to what I expected for the price. </div></div>
This was my buddies complaint. He did a tracking test and it was perfect in that regard, but when he looked at it beside his 5-25 he said there was a noticeable difference.

 

[KYS]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

For my eyes the 5-25 Premier has better glass then the newer S&B scopes.

 

[CoryT]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Well, I'm happy with the ones I've got. I'd rather have the stnadard DT knobs, but I just pretty much ignore the locking feature. The eye box is more forgiving on the 3-20 and there is no tunneling. If there is a differance in the glass I don't see it on mine. I rather like the H2CMR reticle as well.

 

[CSTactical]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I like the 3-20x myself especialy for a 308. Its about the same size as my 4-16x but more power and nicer turrets. I'm not a fan of the locking aspect so I do not lock the turrets.

Overall I give the SB 3-20x good marks not the highest marks.


Mike CST

 

[HPLLC]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

IMO FFP scope reticles are nearing useless at below ~5 power for people with normal 20/20 vision, so picking up the 3-5x range isn't worth the loss of the 20-25x range..

My brother has the S&B 5-25 and it is an awesome optic. I can't help but think it is about optimal.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I'd love to try one. Seems like a great size and zoom ratio. But I won't get to mount it significantly lower than my 5-25x. I like the DTs better than MTCs.

 

[CSTactical]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Here is a video we did on one, not sure if this helps.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3Jbq7CxHhVw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Mike @ CST

 

[leadbullet]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

thanx Mike, I must have watched that video a dozen time buy now.

 

[sirhitalot]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I have a 3-20x50 and ive had a 5-25x56. Ive had the 3-20 for about half a year now, and im really happy with it. The MTC took a bit getting used to, and i prefer the old way of indicating second turn, but the FOV is exceptional and the optics are great. Ive got a lot of scopes, including Zeiss and Nightforce, and the PM2 is my favorite...

 

[cmrs8541]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Gents,

The turrets on the 3-20 ARE NOT DESIGNED TO BE REMOVED.

This is the proper zeroing technique for the 3-20:

When sighting in the scope for the first time, or re-sighting the scope due to service or repair the elevation and windage adjustment must be recalibrated. Therefore a test shooting on a target in (at) the reference distance in which the scope shall be zeroed must be performed.

The deviation from the center of the target or point of aim is then corrected.

The centering of the shot pattern is finally confirmed by another test shooting. If the deviation from the center of the target or point of aim continues to exist please repeat the procedure.

To adjust the turrets, lock both turrets, elevation and windage, unlock the two Allen screws located at 9 and 3 o’clock ONLY. Loosen ½ turn in the outside diameter in line with the “LOCKED” signage using an Allen key. Now unlock the turrets by pulling up the outer bushing with the engraving and turn both turrets until the engraved “0” is indicated by the triangle on the saddle. The clicks of the turrets can be felt and heard when the screws are unlocked. This has no impact on the process of zeroing as the reticle does not move while the setscrews are loose.
Lock the turrets by pushing down the outer bushing with the engraving and tighten the two Allen head screws with an Allen key. Tighten set screws gradually with equal amount of turn on the Allen set screws – do NOT over tighten, this could cause internal damage.

The elevation turret must be in the first revolution. The turret caps are secured by an additional screw that should never be removed by the user, otherwise the entire turret will come off and readjustment of the MTC pins is very difficult. Unlike other Schmidt & Bender turrets, this retaining screw should only be removed by a trained Schmidt & Bender technician. Removal of this retaining screw may result in the malfunction of the Elevation turret. The clicks of the turrets can be felt and heard when the screws are unlocked. This has no impact on the process of zeroing as the thread piece does not move while the set screws are loose.

Hit us up with any more questions:

[email protected]

HAPPY SHOOTING,

CS

 

[cmrs8541]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinn fein</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gents,

The turrets on the 3-20 ARE NOT DESIGNED TO BE REMOVED.

This is the proper zeroing technique for the 3-20:

When sighting in the scope for the first time, or re-sighting the scope due to service or repair the elevation and windage adjustment must be recalibrated. Therefore a test shooting on a target in (at) the reference distance in which the scope shall be zeroed must be performed.

The deviation from the center of the target or point of aim is then corrected.

The centering of the shot pattern is finally confirmed by another test shooting. If the deviation from the center of the target or point of aim continues to exist please repeat the procedure.

To adjust the turrets, lock both turrets, elevation and windage, unlock the two Allen screws located at 9 and 3 o’clock ONLY. Loosen ½ turn in the outside diameter in line with the “LOCKED” signage using an Allen key. Now unlock the turrets by pulling up the outer bushing with the engraving and turn both turrets until the engraved “0” is indicated by the triangle on the saddle. The clicks of the turrets can be felt and heard when the screws are unlocked. This has no impact on the process of zeroing as the reticle does not move while the setscrews are loose.
Lock the turrets by pushing down the outer bushing with the engraving and tighten the two Allen head screws with an Allen key. Tighten set screws gradually with equal amount of turn on the Allen set screws – do NOT over tighten, this could cause internal damage.

The elevation turret must be in the first revolution. The turret caps are secured by an additional screw that should never be removed by the user, otherwise the entire turret will come off and readjustment of the MTC pins is very difficult. Unlike other Schmidt & Bender turrets, this retaining screw should only be removed by a trained Schmidt & Bender technician. Removal of this retaining screw may result in the malfunction of the Elevation turret. The clicks of the turrets can be felt and heard when the screws are unlocked. This has no impact on the process of zeroing as the thread piece does not move while the set screws are loose.

Hit us up with any more questions:

[email protected]

HAPPY SHOOTING,

CS



</div></div>

for what it's worth, I have one of these and havent had any issues with it. Although, I did manage to break the very first M8541 SSDS ever delivered to the USMC sooooooo..... I will probably break this at some point too.

 

[beenjammin]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I love the new 3-20x50s, not because I have one or will be buying one, but because they have made the 4-16s much more affordable for me

 

[Mohawk3a]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Ive been really pleased with my 3-20. For a lighter weight more compact optic (compared to the 5-25's) it's my choice.

 

[D_TROS]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I really like mine. the H2CMR is a fantastic rect for making windage holds, and and I really like the locking knobs, if only for the wind age knob. yes the scope is barely smaller when next to a 5-25 but fov is mo betta.

i have used it in several small matches and it was good for a top 15th place at the snipers hide cup. I also did the match in WY the following couple months. if anyone been there you know how shitty te wind and dust are. I literally sprayed down my rifle with the hose before cleaning it to get the top layer of dirt off. haha.

as for the knobs, when I first got scope the crap instruction booklet said nothing about 3 set screws. it freaked me out when it was still clicking so I pulled rubber deal out and loosened all 3 screws. I then pulled the cap off. put it back on and no clicky click. Sam. cap off and rotate a little clicker deal and all was well. easy fix.

overall I rate this scope very well. love the rect, fov, and knobs. glass is great, not as good as my henny maybe, but close enough. very few would be able to tell any real diff. I only go to 20 power in shoots where I have plenty of time, the rest of the time I leave on 15 ish. I didn't like my last scopes that went to 25 power cause rect got too thick. that always bothered me.

anyway, good luck as I sure you will be equally happy with 3-20 or 5-25

regards
DT

 

[excess]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Does anyone else feel that the eye box is not as generous as the 5-25?

 

[Cross C]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone else feel that the eye box is not as generous as the 5-25? </div></div>

This is what I'm afraid of.... Does anyone know if the more standard DT turret will be an option?

 

[Rob01]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Cross most likely not in the near future. From what I am told the knob diameters are different between the locking turret on the 3-20 and the standard dual turn making a quick swap over not an option. Haven't heard of any plans to make the dual turn an option as they would have to redesign the knob to fit.
 
I believe I read from Jerry in another post that the service center can remove the MTC feature in the knob making it basically a locking dual turn but it's not something you should do at home as it will void the warrenty. Jerry if you read this maybe you can chime in and correct me if I am mistaken.
 
I actually like the option of being able to lock the windage knob as I hold all my wind and locking it after I zero will be nice. I have hit it before when slung and moving thorugh tight spaces and been off.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I love SB. But I'm not paying the new inflated price for scopes that, when compared to my old ones, in my experience are simply not as good in durability or glass. </div></div>

You aren't paying "inflated" prices for the scopes. Their scopes are priced the same. You're paying with inflated dollars. The Federal Reserve, Federal government, etc are the one making the scope cost more for you. Exchange rates are a bitch.

 

[ut755ln]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I love SB. But I'm not paying the new inflated price for scopes that, when compared to my old ones, in my experience are simply not as good in durability or glass. </div></div>

You aren't paying "inflated" prices for the scopes. Their scopes are priced the same. You're paying with inflated dollars. The Federal Reserve, Federal government, etc are the one making the scope cost more for you. Exchange rates are a bitch. </div></div> The Euro has slid as well, some of the higher prices are just them raising prices.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Slid against what? The Germans use Euros. We use dollars. When I believe back in May when I was looking at this scope, it was $1.48/Euro.

What was the rate when they first started talking about this scope? $1.20/Euro?

 

[Alpine 338]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Ok, lets see if I got this correctly; The traditional DT (with window) turrets are not available, only the DT-MTC and the DT-locking? And the turrets that have issues are the DT-Locking, correct?

The only reason I would consider the 3-20 is I really like the MSR reticle, and it's not available with the 4-16, and I have an application that requires a lower profile (50mm objective) so that rules the 5-25 with larger 56mm objective out.

 

[Jerry R]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
 
I believe I read from Jerry in another post that the service center can remove the MTC feature in the knob making it basically a locking dual turn but it's not something you should do at home as it will void the warrenty. Jerry if you read this maybe you can chime in and correct me if I am mistaken.
</div></div>

Actually, the main tube is different which prevents the use of the standard double turn on the new models with locking turrets.

Also, we did receive approval from Germany to remove the MTC feature for a fee of $75 to cover labor and return shipping.

 

[dvdt]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Actually, the main tube is different which prevents the use of the standard double turn on the new models with locking turrets.

Also, we did receive approval from Germany to remove the MTC feature for a fee of $75 to cover labor and return shipping. </div></div>

Awesome! This is my only complaint about the scope. I think I'll send mine in...

 

[MaximumVelocity]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

I have a 3-20 that has already been used in competition. My opinion is truly mine though so only take it for what it's worth.

I have yet to look through a 5-25 so I cannot compare glass to one of those. I can only say it's the clearest piece of glass I've ever owned. Mine has a hint of chromatic abberation but it is now my understanding that all scopes have this to at least a small degree. It's just much worse in less expensive models. The glass is crystal clear.

The turrets don't bother me and I've yet to set the zero on the turrets. I check zero and just lock the turret in place until I get my load 100% where I want it. With that being said, I don't dial. Lock zero and reticle hold all day. H59 reticle. I know, not the choice of most but it's my choice. Dicking around with turrets on some stages with tight par times is not for me. I will say the MTC feature is annoying for me. To know that Schmidt will remove it is comforting but it still may never apply due to my shooting style of holding.

Overall I like it and the turrets really don't concern me. Yeah, it's expensive but after some seat time and then looking through a nightforce, I see where that money went. I just finished 11th in a comp with 25 shooters and never touched the knobs. I didn't time out either. Shooter can use more work tho. RO even said, hey bro, don't foget to set that turret back to zero. 10-4

 

[Rob01]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

We got our S&B 3-20x50 scopes in the other day and I made it to the range today to zero. So far typical S&B quality. I haven't put it through it's paces yet or used it at a match but I definitely will in the coming months. I did however crank the knobs up and down multiple times and it returned to zero. I ended up with 21.5 mils of elevation after zeroing on the 20 MOA base.

Easy to zero the new locking MTC knobs. You only loosen two screws of the three under the locking slide and turn to zero. You can't and shouldn't loosen the third screw. It is filled with a compound. You still feel the clicks while doing it but the knob isn't engaging the erector. I have a set of instructions for zeroing if anyone needs them just drop me a PM and I can email them to you.

H2CMR reticle looked great. At about 4.5x though it gets a little thin to use. You can still see the main reticle though and have an aiming point. All in all I am very happy with it.

Closer picture of the knobs. I really like the locking windage knob as I hold wind and leaving it locked means no possibility of bumping it and being off a few tenths of a mil. MTC on the knobs also isn't overly tight like others I have used and getting out of the MTC isn't bad at all.

Scope sits nicely on a 20MOA base in Seekins Precision .92" height 34mm rings.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Hey Rob, What is the clearance between the bottom of the scope and the top of your rail with the low seekins? My guess is about an RCH.

Sure makes leveling the scope a breeze, eh?

 

[swage]

Re: S & B 3-20 Users...Real feedback wanted

Mine will be here next week. I went with the H2CMR. Now if only my rifle were ready.