Suppressors SA Saint Pistol with a Suppressor

[rgriffith]

I just stumbled on Jmac's extension yesterday as I was looking at some of their brakes for an EPC build I just finished. Nice they finally finished it.

I'm debating a Wolfman that I can switch between my EPC and Saint using Jmac's 360x20. Not sure how well the Wolfman would be able to handle the Saint, though, so the other option would be a dedicated Obsidian 9 for the EPC and decide what I want to do with the Saint later. I just like the idea of one can.

 

[FuhQ]

I just stumbled on Jmac's extension yesterday as I was looking at some of their brakes for an EPC build I just finished. Nice they finally finished it.

I'm debating a Wolfman that I can switch between my EPC and Saint using Jmac's 360x20. Not sure how well the Wolfman would be able to handle the Saint, though, so the other option would be a dedicated Obsidian 9 for the EPC and decide what I want to do with the Saint later. I just like the idea of one can.

Yeah, i'm pretty pissed they never gave me any updates, despite asking for an update for nearly a year, and then suddenly a couple weeks after I build mine with the KVP 1" extension, they decide to drop their's...

Now, don't get me wrong, the KVP extension works great, and the suppressor sits square to the bore, so everything is 100% good to go, and it was like $30 cheaper, but it's still very frustrating when companies do that, especially when you're the person who asked them to build it in the first place.

I'll be 100% with you... I've got a buddy who shoots at the same range as me who has a Wolfman, and for .300 BLK, I'm not really a big fan of the Wolfman. I mean, it works pretty good, but there's better cans for .300 BLK out there. It's a great 9mm PCC can (what it was designed to be), or something like a .350 Legend or single-shot .38 Spl or .357 Mag, but it's not super quiet on the .300 BLK compared to cans like the Dead Air Nomad-30 (or Ti version), or the Otter Creek Labs Hydrogen-S 762. Both are noticeably quieter over the Wolfman. And also, while they don't give any barrel length restrictions for 5.56 for it... I still don't think I'd put it on a 5.56 with less than 14.5" of barrel... Just my opinion.

I have an Obsidian 45, and it works great for handguns, but I don't think with the 1.375" diameter, the Obsidian cans will be a very good can for .300 BLK...

 

[rgriffith]

Yeah, I hear similar in a thread I started in the Aero EPC Facebook group regarding the Wolfman being so-so. I might just save the $ and get a dedicated Obsidian for my EPC and either be done or figure something else out down the road for the Saint. I was originally going to get a 3 lug adapter, brake and I have a Mach 3 on the EPC that can also accept a 3 lug adapter, but I'm still debating the Jmac brake for less moving parts.

Someone above mentioned a SiCo Chimera which seems pretty solid, but of course out of stock. I am also being cheap and don't really want to buy multiple cans.

 

[FuhQ]

Yeah, I hear similar in a thread I started in the Aero EPC Facebook group regarding the Wolfman being so-so. I might just save the $ and get a dedicated Obsidian for my EPC and either be done or figure something else out down the road for the Saint. I was originally going to get a 3 lug adapter, brake and I have a Mach 3 on the EPC that can also accept a 3 lug adapter, but I'm still debating the Jmac brake for less moving parts.

Someone above mentioned a SiCo Chimera which seems pretty solid, but of course out of stock. I am also being cheap and don't really want to buy multiple cans.

The Saint being a 7.5" 5.56 you're really going to need something hardcore like a Sandman-S. It's not the quietest setup, but it's the best/toughest option for such a short 5.56, that's why my black Sandman-S stays pretty much dedicated to it.

I'm going to be 100% with you again... SiCo cans are now kind of shit, too. I used to like them a lot, until I started seeing some of the welds on the newer ones in the last number of years...Not impressed, and I've seen some pictures of people with brand new SiCo cans with misaligned bores and off-center welded end caps requiring surgery, etc... Just overall QA/QC nightmares that should have never left the factory. I just no longer trust them, or feel confident in recommending them to anyone. And once you've gone through the process, you're kind of "married" to each can in a way, so it's kind of a big decision, and you don't want to buy a POS from a POS company. Kind of like women... You might have fun with the girl with loose morals that the tequila shots makes her panties drop like clockwork, but you don't want to put a ring on her finger, or take her home to meet mama.

 

[Angry Beaver]

Ok, so I have a postive update...

Here's what you need to make your 7.5" Saint Victor 5.56 able to accept a suppressor... Now, I have not shot this yet, and won't be able to until tomorrow, as you need to let the Rocksett cure in the threaded parts for 12-24 hours before shooting the gun or moving it around a lot. I let it cure at least overnight, but I try to go at least a full 24 hours before shooting the gun.

You will need a KVA (Kaw Valley Precision) 1" barrel extension with 1/2x28 to 1/2x28 threads. And a JMac Customs or Dead Air KeyMount muzzle brake or flash hider. It MUST be the the standard model that does NOT have a "flush" or "face mount" option. It MUST be a model with the small bit of metal after the back locking lugs. I will post a picture showing what I am talking about. Rocksett is available on Amazon for $10.92 for a 2oz bottle...Which will last you a LONG time, just keep the lid on it. I've been using the same 2oz bottle for almost a decade, and built A LOT of guns, and thread-locked A LOT of parts, and it's still 85% full. USE IT SPARINGLY! If you put too much, it will be nearly impossible to remove without boiling the muzzle device in hot water for hours. Trust me on this.

KVP 1″ Barrel Extender - Kaw Valley Precision

KVP barrel extensions are a simple, yet useful part. With the vast array of parts available on the market, achieving the perfect barrel/comp/hand guard fit can be tough. Barrel extensions come in handy when you need just a little more barrel/comp length to work well with your hand guard of...

kawvalleyprecision.com

You WILL need the optional 1/2x28 JMac shim kit for this, to time your muzzle brake.

2C 1/2-28 KeyMount (KeyMicro)

www.jmac-customs.com

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5/32” gap is perfect!

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This is the extra thread portion that I was talking that about your KeyMount needs to have, or your suppressor will not fit.

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Final product!

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Oh man! I somehow got occupied on other things and completely forgot about this. I haven't caught up to the thread yet but this is great news!!

Did you need to change your buffer tube or BCG or anything else other than what you added to the barrel?

 

[Angry Beaver]

Just released the Saint Pistol Barrel extension. $70 with shipping. Just got it in my email today at 12pm EST and placed my order, good luck!

Did you ever install it? I'm interested in seeing how well everything worked with the JMac version now that FuhQ posted his pictures with the Kaw Valley Precision extension.

 

[Angry Beaver]

Only thing I'm mad about right now is that this extension changes the thread pitch from one to the other. Now I have to figure out a way to exchange my 1/2-28 thread pitch brake with a 5/8-24 brake!!!

 

[FuhQ]

Oh man! I somehow got occupied on other things and completely forgot about this. I haven't caught up to the thread yet but this is great news!!

Did you need to change your buffer tube or BCG or anything else other than what you added to the barrel?

Nope, didn’t have to change anything extra.

 

[FuhQ]

Only thing I'm mad about right now is that this extension changes the thread pitch from one to the other. Now I have to figure out a way to exchange my 1/2-28 thread pitch brake with a 5/8-24 brake!!!

The Kaw Valley is 1/2-28 on both ends.

The JMac is 1/2-28 on the barrel side, and 5/8-24 (standard .30 cal) on the muzzle device side.

JMac makes a 1/2-28 and 5/8-24 version of the 2-chamber KeyMo I used in my setup. You just have to search their site.

You could always just send back the JMac extension, and order the KVP extension. It will end up being cheaper, too.

 

[BennyO]

Any concerns with the KVP extension being a different bore size than the barrel? Getting ready to do the same thing to my Saint 7.5", also have a Sandman-S suppressor.

 

[Angry Beaver]

Any concerns with the KVP extension being a different bore size than the barrel? Getting ready to do the same thing to my Saint 7.5", also have a Sandman-S suppressor.

No. Like any other muzzle device, the bore size will be larger than the barrel. You're just extending that distance by an inch with a barrel extension.

 

[FuhQ]

Any concerns with the KVP extension being a different bore size than the barrel? Getting ready to do the same thing to my Saint 7.5", also have a Sandman-S suppressor.

No, exactly what @Angry Beaver just explained. Larger bore diameter means it will not interfere with bullet flight. Ironically, my Saint (with the Sandman-S) is still using the same 100 yard zero as it was before the extension and muzzle brake. So, I never even had to re-zero, just check zero.

 

[BennyO]

Understood, thank you both for your replies. My concern was that it would create some instability in the bullet flight, looking forward to trying this out.

 

[Dragon Breath]

Hey guys, reviving the thread with a question.. I’ve recently shot some suppressed AR-15s and depending on the gun/can combo have dealt with unpleasant gas in the face. Wondering if y’all have put some decent rounds through your Saint with a can and have noticed it being pretty gassy or if the newer cans are pretty good at keeping back pressure to a minimum with the Saint. If y’all have is there anything y’all have done to help? Looking forward to my can getting out of paperwork prison..

 

[Angry Beaver]

Hey guys, reviving the thread with a question.. I’ve recently shot some suppressed AR-15s and depending on the gun/can combo have dealt with unpleasant gas in the face. Wondering if y’all have put some decent rounds through your Saint with a can and have noticed it being pretty gassy or if the newer cans are pretty good at keeping back pressure to a minimum with the Saint. If y’all have is there anything y’all have done to help? Looking forward to my can getting out of paperwork prison..

That's just the nature of the AR platform and its Direct Impingement gas operation.

On top of that, a suppressor traps a lot of gas to muffle the sound of the gun's report. And unless you have a suppressor that redirects gas like an OSS (now HUXWRX) does, it's also going to increase the dwell time at your gas port. All of that gas ends up coming back towards you and out your charging handle, hitting you right in your eyes.

You can get an adjustable gas block so you can adjust the amount of gas being tapped off from the barrel and reduce some of the excess gas. Some people buy charging handles that are designed in a way to help redirect the excess gas away from your face.

 

[rustyinbend]

Hey guys, reviving the thread with a question.. I’ve recently shot some suppressed AR-15s and depending on the gun/can combo have dealt with unpleasant gas in the face. Wondering if y’all have put some decent rounds through your Saint with a can and have noticed it being pretty gassy or if the newer cans are pretty good at keeping back pressure to a minimum with the Saint. If y’all have is there anything y’all have done to help? Looking forward to my can getting out of paperwork prison..

On my Saint AR Pistol is use the Radian Suppressor Optimized Charging Handle, and it really minimizes the gas coming out the back.

 

[FuhQ]

Hey guys, reviving the thread with a question.. I’ve recently shot some suppressed AR-15s and depending on the gun/can combo have dealt with unpleasant gas in the face. Wondering if y’all have put some decent rounds through your Saint with a can and have noticed it being pretty gassy or if the newer cans are pretty good at keeping back pressure to a minimum with the Saint. If y’all have is there anything y’all have done to help? Looking forward to my can getting out of paperwork prison..

Yes, lots of rounds… Get a Sandman-S and you won’t have any gas issues. It’s not the quietest can, but it knocks down the flash and concussive blast, and tames the 7.5” 5.56 VERY well for what it is, and it is very low backpressure, which helps eliminate gas in your face.

 

[BennyO]

Hey guys, reviving the thread with a question.. I’ve recently shot some suppressed AR-15s and depending on the gun/can combo have dealt with unpleasant gas in the face. Wondering if y’all have put some decent rounds through your Saint with a can and have noticed it being pretty gassy or if the newer cans are pretty good at keeping back pressure to a minimum with the Saint. If y’all have is there anything y’all have done to help? Looking forward to my can getting out of paperwork prison..

I am running a DeadAir Sandman-S on my AR pistol and after adding DeadAir's E-Brake to the Sandman it almost eliminated the gas coming back in your face without having to change out the gasblock. E-Brake is also supposed to help with decibel reduction as well.

 

[scrogg]

I have the Saint Edge PDW and had the same query about mounting a suppressor. I ended up going with the Yankee Hill Machine Phantom QD Adapter with a YHM phantom QD flash hider. The adapter utilizes 1-3/8"-24 threads so you have lots of options for a suppressor. I opted for the EA Vox-S. The flash hider and the adapter both fit under the factory handguard and is just long enough to clear the end of it.

 

[dangeroso]

No, exactly what @Angry Beaver just explained. Larger bore diameter means it will not interfere with bullet flight. Ironically, my Saint (with the Sandman-S) is still using the same 100 yard zero as it was before the extension and muzzle brake. So, I never even had to re-zero, just check zero.

No. Like any other muzzle device, the bore size will be larger than the barrel. You're just extending that distance by an inch with a barrel extension.

Just wanted to reply back this for anyone looking to go this route and reading through this thread in the future. I have a Springfield Saint Victor Pistol (converted to Form 1 SBR) that decided to suppress with a Silencerco Saker ASR 556K. I bought the KAW Valley Precision 1/2 28 to 1/2 28 1" barrel extender to get me out of the handguard area of the Saint. Then attached the Charlie QD mount to the extender. All work performed by a qualified gunsmith.

After about 16 rounds, the KAW Tactical extender ruptured catastrophically. Thankfully the Saker and the Rifle are both ok. The rupture happened right at the male threaded portion (which is incredibly thin at that point). See below:

Rather than going down the barrel extender route again, I have ordered a 10.5" barrel from Faxon Firearms to get out past the handguard. I'm not thrilled about going from 7.5 to 10.5, but considering the 1" extender, it's really only a 2" increase. And there are some ballistic and suppression advantages to the added length as well.

TL/DR version: I do not recommend the KAW Valley barrel extender!

Photos of my setup before everything went south:

 

[FuhQ]

That sucks. I still haven’t had any issues with mine. You might have just been unlucky and gotten a lemon that had a defect or void in the alloy. That’s the first one of these I’ve heard of having an issue.

 

[dangeroso]

That sucks. I still haven’t had any issues with mine. You might have just been unlucky and gotten a lemon that had a defect or void in the alloy. That’s the first one of these I’ve heard of having an issue.

I definitely hope that's the case. But wanted to share my experience regardless.

 

[hlee]

Does the saint use a proprietary handguard? If not, you could switch that to a larger diameter HG that would accept the suppressor. Or, maybe you could get a slightly shorter Saint handguard? Or, hack saw and rattle can the existing hand guard. All of the above is predicated on wanting to keep the firearm short.

I like the look of a suppressor tucked under a long handguard. But, a thinner HG feels handier to me. I’m in the midst of a build and am currently torn by those options. I have a fat 15” HG and a svelte 10” HG.

Anyway, it’s possible that you could keep the short barrel if you prefer it…