Safran/ Vectronix Terrapin-X *** Update***

Thanks for this, this is exactly where I'm at a cross-roads and the above mentioned bino's weakness is the internal LRF and display. I'm also aware of the fatigue that may come with observing through a monocular and the decreased FOV for scanning large areas compared to binos.
Carna, my choice would be a dedicated LRF and binos. The Sigs will do just about everything you will need, weigh next to nothing, and can be had relatively cheaply. Where I shoot LR, we have the following: Swaro 8x30 and EL binos, Terrapin, Sig 2000, and G7 BR2500. The binos range the worst out of the bunch.
 
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Carna, my choice would be a dedicated LRF and binos. The Sigs will do just about everything need. weigh next to nothing, and can be had relatively cheap. Where I shoot LR, we have the following: Swaro 8x30 and EL binos, Terrapin, Sig 2000, and G7 BR2500. The binos range the worst out of the bunch.
Thanks, I second that LRF-binos come up a bit weak in the mid-weight category, but my Leicas have done OK up to 100yds at a decent range with clean metal targets. Contemplating a move to NM before too long and with some of the distances there, I definitely will be taking a hard look at one of these T-Xs so I'm really looking forward to feedback here come May when the shipment hits...
 
I was talking to a guy I usto know that was a rep for various manufacturers about whether to buy bino RF's or two separate devices. He had both, multiples of them actually. His recommendation was buy separates.

The reason is that while optics improvements are relatively slow and incremental, RF's are a tech product. So in a couple years, your optics will still be top drawer, but your RF will be superceded and you may want something to take advantage of the improvements.

In addition, he pointed out that electronics warranties are relatively short because they don't last. So eventually, you risk ending up with an overpriced set of binos without a functional RF, and you have to go out and buy a separate RF anyway.

So for me, though an all in one is really nice in terms of use, I buy separates. If I was wealthy, maybe I would act differently, but as it is, I need to break up my investment so I only have to replace one part instead of two everytime the tech craps out or improves dramatically.
 
It's crazy nothing more than a website and a single YouTube video are out on the Terrapin X at this point. I figured something would of leaked by now. Hell, even Apple cant keep stuff under wraps this long. And no, the images of cityscapes with red writing on them don't count lol.
 
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I'll go against the grain. I say the less shit you have to carry the better. That said, if you're going to do a binoculars/lrf combo there's really only a couple choices, Leica and Swaro.

I think the Leicas have a better LRF right now, they released 2700 HDRs. My 2200s will range to 2000+ and unless you're going to KOTM events that's more than enough for PRS and weekend warrior ELR.
 
I'll go against the grain. I say the less shit you have to carry the better. That said, if you're going to do a binoculars/lrf combo there's really only a couple choices, Leica and Swaro.

I think the Leicas have a better LRF right now, they released 2700 HDRs. My 2200s will range to 2000+ and unless you're going to KOTM events that's more than enough for PRS and weekend warrior ELR.

I'm afraid my wallet will keep me in this category, but I think it's great that Vectronix appears to be bringing a more broadly marketed LRF to us plebeians...
 
Leica HDR'S 3000 has hit the market and may be the best ranging binos ever, at 3000 yards and ballistics to a 1000. Amazing for hunters and ELR shooters.
 
I have the old Terrapin and it works like a charm, but I am curious on the new one and its beam divergence.
The old one is .4 x 2.4 which is .4 height by 2.4 width and the new is 1.2 height by .5 width so at 1000 yards old one is 14" H by 86" W and new one is
43.2" H by 18" width, so the older one seems to be better for ranging animals on flat land ground, I wonder why they would switch that up? Also the older one has lower/higher operating temperatures. The new one has a lot of positives though 8x lens, and .5 second return, plus scan mode.
Lets see when it hits the market and hear some real comparisons.
 
If ranging capability between the terrapinx and Leica 2700B are close, are the features on the terrapin going to justify the premium for many of you?

I doubt that they will be close.

There is a lot of hyperbole out there relative to ranging capability. They talk about ranging distance but seldom ever tell you what they were ranging, the characteristics of the environment, etc. Look at Litz's book that did an unbiased look at all LRFs that were on the market. Compare their data with the manufacturer's state and you will see the deltas.

The Vectronix units have a lot of users that stand behind the claims. Litz's book also proved the Terrapin met the claims made.
 
The major problem I see with the Terrapin X is that it no longer has an etched crosshair reticle. It has a big fat circle like so many others. That really makes rangings small targets at long range much more guesswork.
 
I have the old Terrapin and it works like a charm, but I am curious on the new one and its beam divergence.
The old one is .4 x 2.4 which is .4 height by 2.4 width and the new is 1.2 height by .5 width so at 1000 yards old one is 14" H by 86" W and new one is
43.2" H by 18" width, so the older one seems to be better for ranging animals on flat land ground, I wonder why they would switch that up? Also the older one has lower/higher operating temperatures. The new one has a lot of positives though 8x lens, and .5 second return, plus scan mode.
Lets see when it hits the market and hear some real comparisons.

FYI, the 2700 divergence is 1.2 mils wide by .5 mils tall. My understanding is that the new Terrapin X uses Leica tech as it's (at least) starting basis, so my guess is the divergence is the same, but not sure on that.
 
FYI, the 2700 divergence is 1.2 mils wide by .5 mils tall. My understanding is that the new Terrapin X uses Leica tech as it's (at least) starting basis, so my guess is the divergence is the same, but not sure on that.

Vectronix is using Leica for optics and manufacturing expertise. This allows them to reduce their cost and provide a good selling price for the unit.

Electronics including the laser and the processing are their own.

The beam divergence that I referenced was for the 3000 series of binoculars not the 2700 LRF.
 
Yeah, elmerdeer mentioned he thought the beam divergence on the X was taller than wider, but I read their release about working with Leica, and as the divergence on it and the 2700 are listed as the same, wondered if it was actually wider than taller like on the 2700.

Curious to know what parts they used from Leica....if they used their glass, that would be nice. I note that it looks like the display is similar too. Do you know what other tech in particular they used? Got a call into someone I know that will know....but don't know if he will share that with me...probably not.

I would love if Vec pushed down their bluetooth communication with Kestrel tech down to Leica. I like the 2700 a lot, but when it comes to ballistics....the Vec X solution looks like it will be the best on the market.
 
Yeah, elmerdeer mentioned he thought the beam divergence on the X was taller than wider, but I read their release about working with Leica, and as the divergence on it and the 2700 are listed as the same, wondered if it was actually wider than taller like on the 2700.

Curious to know what parts they used from Leica....if they used their glass, that would be nice. I note that it looks like the display is similar too. Do you know what other tech in particular they used? Got a call into someone I know that will know....but don't know if he will share that with me...probably not.

I would love if Vec pushed down their bluetooth communication with Kestrel tech down to Leica. I like the 2700 a lot, but when it comes to ballistics....the Vec X solution looks like it will be the best on the market.

I don't have any inside information. I called them and they told me what I posted. The optics are a no brainer. Why go anywhere else? Leica are the experts and probably had something on the shelf that could be used versus designing and sourcing it. I would assume that Leica also has a ton more experience with design for manufacturing in volume so applying that knowledge and their buying power would let Vectronix lower their costs.

I don't honestly know what to expect but I am sure it will be tested ten ways from Sunday by the early adopters
 
Well, I hope the partnership goes both ways, I would shed tears over something the size of a 2700 that connected to a Kestrel like the Vec X is supposed to do. Shed tears because, like the X, I would not be able to afford it either, but I'd still like to see it happen!
 
It's crazy nothing more than a website and a single YouTube video are out on the Terrapin X at this point. I figured something would of leaked by now. Hell, even Apple cant keep stuff under wraps this long. And no, the images of cityscapes with red writing on them don't count lol.


No it's not.. vectronix is owned by Safran.. they build everything from cheap lasers to jet engines. Where's the money at? Businesses cutting P.O's, not consumers. My vector IV is from 1994, still works like a champ. Why? Government project. Good luck finding a manual for a Rockwell viper, which is the same as the vector on the hardware side but different in programming. Many hours searching but i have it. I owned a terrapin, the only reason I sold it was the screaming deal I found on the vector. One thing that you can bet on with a vectronix product is under promised and over performance. The exact opposite of any other laser ranging company on the market.
 
Could this be a random coincidence with the names?

TerrapinX and BLACK RANGEX 4K from Nikon

Release of the Nikon item seems to be delayed and currently coincides closely with the release of the TerrapinX
 
What don't you get?

The return rate for repair is tiny and that's via military and L.E Agencies globally. Initial cost of inspection is high but includes basic part replacement Turnaround from factory is normally inside 6 weeks. Communicating direct with the parent factory gets an answer either immediately by phone or email within 24hrs.

The problem never was with the parent factory but solely with its US distributor. Add ITAR and a few ignorant Feds and there you have the problem: its not the product or the manufacturer.

If you don't want to buy Vectronix/Safran then don't ,...they won't sweat either as the US Civilian market is small numbers. Military and other professional end users will continue to buy what is simply the best product in its class.


"Small numbers for the Civilian Market".....The numbers could change quickly with the expected pricing and a decent warranty you could believe in.ELR, PRS, and many other venues including long range hunting represent a growing audience. I am shooting very long on small critters and can't wait to try one out. Would like to see Vectronix make the existing PLCs solid with FAST US service including all the damn parts the US Agent did not have available so the owners are not dumping such a great and capable product. Maybe they could start reselling the PLCs after full service is done. I would be interested in that.
 
Guys,

If you come to the NRA show next weekend you can speak directly with someone from Safran Vectronix and handle the first demo units. Ideally we will have some real world testing with production units shortly after that.

Thanks!
Hopefully a few hide members will get a chance to take a look and let us know what they think!
 
Gonna be there, but only have one day...Looks like I will need two to actually see the whole show.. at least two. Hopefully I will get a chance to check on the Vectronix.
 
it will be interesting to make a comparison on the field between terrapin and terrapin x ... the "original" terrapin ranging over 4500 meters (2.8 Miles) in ideal conditions.
 
it will be interesting to make a comparison on the field between terrapin and terrapin x ... the "original" terrapin ranging over 4500 meters (2.8 Miles) in ideal conditions.

Yes, Gents down at EuroOptic, if you could provide us fence sitters an idea of how ranging capability and consistency at the far end of the spectrum stacks up against the old Terrapin and say the Leica 2700B that might help us get off said fence and place an order.
 
Yes, Gents down at EuroOptic, if you could provide us fence sitters an idea of how ranging capability and consistency at the far end of the spectrum stacks up against the old Terrapin and say the Leica 2700B that might help us get off said fence and place an order.

100% Agree. I for one just want a pure, powerful, fast, and accurate LRF with some factory support. The old Terrapin was three of those four things. If the new one is all four with the added ballistics, it's a homerun and I'll order.
 
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100% Agree. I for one just want a pure, powerful, fast, and accurate LRF with some factory support. The old Terrapin was three of those four things. If the new one is all four with the added ballistics, it's a homerun and I'll order.

I have the old Terrapin and it ranges awesome my farthest hit was 4967 yards on a church steeple hand held partly cloudy conditions anout 5 out 10 tries. If the new one is as good but faster i will buy that too.
I hate this website!!!
Elmer
 
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I did get to check it out while there. But to be honest, it was inside the convention center, so I really could not tell much at all. I was told that they expect 3300 yards under good conditions. They brought up the fact of the slightly larger than usual objective (28mm IIRC), and that the glass and 8x power was chosen specifically to allow this to be used as an observation device. It did seem like very nice glass, but again, bright lights and indoors, so it's hard to say for sure. I don't care for it's form factor, but I will say it felt good in the hand to me, even though it does not really fit in my preferred equipment profile.

The display was like I was looking through a Leica...same reticle, displays 'ehr' etc. I would guess that this, at least, is one area they worked with Leica on. I would not be surprised to find that glass was sourced from Leica either, but again, making that assessment would require better conditions than 'store lighting', and no one would confirm that for me.

I tried to get more information about their work with Leica from a couple different sources but got nothing but a smile. Got one other to try, but as I suspected, no one wants to share.

The unit felt solid and quality, the tripod mount was brass inserted in the plastic housing, so it will last. Ranging was like other RF's in terms of speed. But it was definitely not 'challenging' conditions.

Unfortunately, that's about all I can say about it, nothing really you probably did not know already perhaps. There just was not much I could gather from handling the unit there at the convention.

Overall, I would have to say that unless the ranging performance is super exceptional, which it may very well be, they are going to have a tough time of it considering Sig's releases. I was there half an hour after Sig released their new stuff, and Sig was hopping while the Vec X rep looked lonely sitting there with his two units for demo. It definitely felt like the new Sigs took the wind out of their sails a bit, but again, it was right after Sig's release announcement.

For me personally, and assuming the Sig works in the field as it did in the demo I got, I can't see any reason to go that direction. Again, that would change if the Sig breaks down all the time, or if the Vec x ranges at a different level than they told me. But from a workflow perspective, Sig takes it that last step where Vec X left just a bit on the table....making Sig's workflow, to me, superior. And I don't mean the integration with the scope, this to me is very cool from a tech perspective, but not something I am interested in having personally. I mean that it all flows back into the RF...two way communication. And all that in a form factor I like at a price more people can afford.

The only other consideration would be glass performance between the two. Vec X may have an edge there over the Sig, I don't know.

The other wild card is Leica. They have stuff in the works. I know some about it, but not enough details to make a comparison, workflow wise, to these units. But their stuff should be out (should have already been out) hopefully soon. We'll see what they come up with , I hope it matches the Sig's workflow with the ranging of the newer binos, and at a price that is competitive.

All in all, I would say this is a good year for RF's. We have a fantastic array of choices that integrate tools together to streamline workflows and accurate outputs. And the fact that there is competition will hopefully keep price bloat to a minimum.
 
I had a Sig for a while. It ranged out to 3000 yards in ideal conditions but after ranging a bunch of stuff my eyeball felt like someone squished it in a vise.

Then I got a Terrapin and it can range 4000 yards. I can look through it all day without any eye fatigue. It’s beam divergence is not what people have posted in this thread. I mapped it and it’s 1.2x.8mil. It might be 2.4 mil on paper but it doesn’t pick up anything outside the 1.2x.8mil rectangle.

I have better lasers. The problem with 900nm lasers is they wash out in harsh sunlight. 1500nm lasers don’t. And the beam divergence of these pocket units is too big for precise ranging at long distances. So you end up ranging landmarks which aren’t very reflective. Add all this up and you cut the performance by 2/3. That’s the reality.
 
Yeah, that is one area that matters to me a bunch but others not so much....the glass. I use a Leica for various reasons, but one is the glass because I actually use mine as an observation device. I could not tell to much inside at such short ranges, but previous Sigs have not matched Leica in that area in my opinion. When I mentioned this to some folks, it was not important to them, they said they just range a target once and are done. Not the way I use it, so my choice is a bit different. One thing that applies to you no matter whether you use it as an observation device or not, when you are 15 minutes after sunset under cloudy skies, you have to see what you are ranging, and that is where the glass and the coatings matter to everyone. I can't say how the new Sigs will perform under these circumstances, but good glass is important to me under those conditions.

I was not in any conditions to make a judgement on the Vec x glass definitively, but it looked good and it is one of the things they pointed out to me that they put effort into, they wanted an excellent viewing experience. As they are pairing with Leica somewhat on this project, I would not be surprised if that is where some of the partnership was focused, but that is only a guess.

As for the beam divergence, IIRC, the Sig is 1.3 mils round, while the Vec x is 1.3 x.5, so roughly half the size. Should be very accurate.

All in all, on paper, I think the workflow on the sig is the best available. But as you point out, the real world is where the rubber hits the road, and I cant wait to hear from people who have the means (which absolutely excludes me) to test both of these and whatever Leica comes out with side by side.

Interested to know more about the NM on the beams. I know Leica and Sig use 905nm lasers, as does the Vec X. I understood that 905's are better under certain conditions, but show up badly in NVG's, so the military uses the 1500 wavelength. Do you know what other differentiators there are in the wavelengths?
 
Sig glass in Kilo rangefinders is POS probably plastic and only shows kinda good pic in the middle while the edges total wash out , total junk
As for ranging in multiple tests total hit an mis affair some kinda work some don't , down to luck of a pick.

I hope Terrapin X gets it right .

All i want is consistent 1mil sized target ranging to at least 1200y prefereably 1500+y but so far Sig 2200 cant go past 1100 (tested number of units) Leica 2700 also peters out at around 1200y but is much faster , with realy nice glass.
 
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Yeah, the glass on the Leica is really nice. As far as ranging, the only steel targets I have access to are only 1125 yards and are 2 MOA, but the 2700 hits these easily, consistently and very fast even in full sun. These are painted yellow and red. But past that distance, though I have hit trees and rocks and animals well beyond that, I don't know how it would do on steel, I just don't have access to that kind of testing distance for steel unless you want to count stop signs! Been trying to figure out a way to stretch the distance further for testing, but the only way I can see that steel that I have access to is from a hilltop....if I go farther back,, I have to go down the hill, and I don't think I can see the steel. But maybe I can work something out...

I too hope Vec x does well in the ranging...it will push the others to do better, which will be a boon to all of us regardless of which brand you favor.
 
If I remember right it has a 6 power eyepiece and that is incompatabile with the ranges they claim. Yes I can see the target at 3k but it is a house or an elephant.

To try to standardize early comparisons lets use a NEW standard that everyone can understand. Since few of us shoot rock faces, trellines, or radio tower dishes and make it a sideways deer at 7 A:M 1:00 PM and 5 P.M. If you can't make it happen with deer, get a damn horse and tie it to a stake and move away to get your distance.
 
UPDATE: (sorry :()

"After a phone call with Safran Vectronix this morning, I am disappointed to inform you that the initial shipments of the Terrapin X rangefinder will be delayed; I have not yet been given a firm delivery date, but it seems apparent that this delay will be at least 30 days.

Despite this not being fault of EuroOptic, it remains our responsibility to inform you, and we will of course refund any payment for preorder that is no longer desired after receipt of this news."


TERRAPIN-X
 
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UPDATE: (sorry :()

"After a phone call with Safran Vectronix this morning, I am disappointed to inform you that the initial shipments of the Terrapin X rangefinder will be delayed; I have not yet been given a firm delivery date, but it seems apparent that this delay will be at least 30 days.

Despite this not being fault of EuroOptic, it remains our responsibility to inform you, and we will of course refund any payment for preorder that is no longer desired after receipt of this news."

TERRAPIN-X

Gives me another month to sell unwanted items so I can order one :)
 
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