Glad to hear that. Everything I have seen, admittedly only 20 or so, has been throated for the 195 Bergers, and has shot that like a champ, but has shot everything else like crap. And the 195 Bergers have proven not to be a great bullet for killing elk.
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Sako S20
- Thread starter Lowlight
- Start date
Interesting. Mine is a SAAMI chamber. But I do have one throated for 195s that I’m going to be trying the 168 LRX in. We’ll see how that goes.
Sorry for getting off topic.
Can anyone confirm the twist rate of the .300 WM? I've seen it as 1-11" but on their website you can configure your S20 and it shows as 1-10"...
Right, according to EuroOptic’s website it is 1-11”. On Sako’s you configure it and it shows 1-10”. Who know!?
Only a sample size of 1, and the user might have ham fisted it, but another forum a poster had the stock crack where one of the bolts connects to the chassis. Not much detail if it was an action screw or one of the screws that hold the plastic forearm/rear stock to the chassis. If it was just the screws holding the plastic stock/forearm "slabs" on I could see that happening if you cranked on them, especially if they are not metal interfaced like say the AI forearm slabs are.
Sako s20 300 win
I just got in my new sako s20 precision 300 win... all I can say is wow! Big time attention to detail. The modularity is pretty awesome. It has what I would probably consider a light Palma contour that is fluted. Both action and barrel are stainless and cerakoted. 24" with 5/28 thread. Machined...
www.longrangeonly.com
I ordered and received an S20 Hunter in 6.5 PRC this past Friday. The first thing I did was weigh it and it's 8lb 4oz which really surprised me. It's 3/4 lb lighter than my custom Kimber 8400 Proof also chambered for 6.5 PRC but not the 7.4 lb listed on Eurooptic's website. Overall I'm very impressed with the S20. Fit and finish are superb, the action is very smooth, feeding and ejection are excellent, and the trigger is outstanding. It's the closest thing I can find to a "hunting weight" AI.
After zeroing the scope I shot two 5-shot groups using Hornady 147gr ELD Match. Here's the second group.
Here are the first eight shots through the rifle. Shots from bore sighting are #1, #2, and #3. I made a scope adjustment after #3 and then aimed at the bottom of the diamond at top left. Shots #5 through #8 went into 1/2 moa.
After zeroing the scope I shot two 5-shot groups using Hornady 147gr ELD Match. Here's the second group.
Here are the first eight shots through the rifle. Shots from bore sighting are #1, #2, and #3. I made a scope adjustment after #3 and then aimed at the bottom of the diamond at top left. Shots #5 through #8 went into 1/2 moa.
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Nice result. In regard to weight, if you read a bicycle catalogue they show the weight for the smallest frame size in that model; if you read a rifle catalogue they show the weight for the version with the biggest hole down the barrel and complementary lightened stock, i.e. the wooden stock with a great big hollow in the buttstock or synthetic version without any balance weights hidden under the butt plate (or in the pistol grip).
I sent an email to a Sako dealer in Cananda asking about S20 weights and received this response. I added in the weights in lb for clarity.
S20 Hunter 24” BBL = 4kg (8.82 lb)
S20 Precision 24” BBL = 4.2kg (9.26 lb)
S20 Hunter 20” BBL = 3.6kg (7.94 lb)
S20 Precision 20” BBL = 3.8kg (8.38 lb)
S20 Hunter 24” BBL = 4kg (8.82 lb)
S20 Precision 24” BBL = 4.2kg (9.26 lb)
S20 Hunter 20” BBL = 3.6kg (7.94 lb)
S20 Precision 20” BBL = 3.8kg (8.38 lb)
anybody find that the cheekpiece often doesn't want to adjust (or at least not easily)?
this am at the range, it was 37*F, (and maybe my hands were just cold and stiff), but I had the hardest time getting the cheek-piece to elevate up from fully retracted. this is on the hunter stock.
now that I think about it, the precision stock I initially saw and handled at Cabelas, ALSO had some (less) resistance to wanting to deploy
anyone else with similar issues?
wonder if some graphite kinda liberally applied down in there, would do the trick
I need it extended to the nest-to highest position to get good visual alignment
this am at the range, it was 37*F, (and maybe my hands were just cold and stiff), but I had the hardest time getting the cheek-piece to elevate up from fully retracted. this is on the hunter stock.
now that I think about it, the precision stock I initially saw and handled at Cabelas, ALSO had some (less) resistance to wanting to deploy
anyone else with similar issues?
wonder if some graphite kinda liberally applied down in there, would do the trick
I need it extended to the nest-to highest position to get good visual alignment
on another note, . . . happily
after two trips to the range, and maybe 120 rounds down the pipe
it seems to be a .6moa gun FOR ME, from the bench, on a bag in front, and squeeze bag behind.
this is with :
hornaday match 120's,
federal GMM 130's
Norma Match 130's
and hornaday match 140's
the "flyer" on top target (to top left), is from a different string,
I was running out of targets, and had to do some double duty with groups, on some targets
after two trips to the range, and maybe 120 rounds down the pipe
it seems to be a .6moa gun FOR ME, from the bench, on a bag in front, and squeeze bag behind.
this is with :
hornaday match 120's,
federal GMM 130's
Norma Match 130's
and hornaday match 140's
the "flyer" on top target (to top left), is from a different string,
I was running out of targets, and had to do some double duty with groups, on some targets
I've had no issues with the adjustable comb on my Hunter but did handle a Precision model a month or so back that suffered from the same issue you describe. I would say that the adjustable comb is the only "cheap" feature on the rifle and that Sako could have done a better job.
I ordered a precision forend from Eurooptic.com today and am looking forward to seeing how I like the hybrid arrangement.
I ordered a precision forend from Eurooptic.com today and am looking forward to seeing how I like the hybrid arrangement.
As to the Max OD, there's a long Sako video (Complete Story of Sako S20) that talks about an insert you can remove to run a larger Dia. barrel like a carbon option, they said it would be fine to run without the insert. However I don't think they mentioned a max size. They also mentioned that different size inserts would be available down the road. Not sure why, if it's a free floating barrel, perhaps the inserts just add chassis rigidity. Of course that video was done 7 months ago and also talked about ARCA plates, and I've yet to see either anywhere.
I was able to handle both versions in short/long actions at Cabela's a couple weeks ago, I still have very mixed feelings about it. The actions were smooth, but not TRG smooth. The trigger was nice, but I'd rather have the 2 stage. I really want to like it because I love my TRG, but it's a hard sell.
I wish it had a full length pic rail, and 20 MOA while at it, It's too far between them to run any of the one piece mounts, and the sako S20 mount is vaporware, especially if you want the 20MOA. Which is the next biggest issue with the S20, can't get the 2 stage trigger, can't get the heavy profile barrel, can't get mags, can't get half of the S20 parts and the rifle has been in stores for almost a year now. As Lowlight has said dealing with Sako/Beretta is just painful. Having the mag release built into the magazine....not sure how I feel about it, it's intuitive, but you have to get the right angles on the mag going in, you can't just slam it in there. Also the mags in 300wm are really bulky. I do really like that it appears all the fasteners I saw were probably like T20 or T25 across the gun, instead of 5 different bit sizes.
As so many others have said I was not impressed with the feel of the stock at all, very cheap feeling plastic and the display models had a lot of dents/scratches, tapping on the plastic isn't like tapping on say AI or KRG side plates, instead it's very hollow thin sounding. Sako says it's a "rubberized leatherlike gripping surface" on the precision version but it's just slick hard plastic, slightly textured at the grip. The hunting version has a couple small rubber like inserts at the grip and forearm. The cheek adjustment felt very iffy and was hard to adjust both up and down. The LOP on the precision stock was super long, no way I could get proper trigger position without sliding my hand way around the grip and I'm 5-11. Looked like there was 2 thin spacers you can remove and the trigger moves a bit, but it's still way too long. The hunting stock was better, or at least felt that way. I also thought the balance of the hunter setup was better, but that might change with an optic.
Add to that we've seen a few video reviews where the rifle did not impressive from an accuracy standpoint, and the fact getting accessories/parts seems basically impossible, and we still can't get a 2 stage trigger or heavy barrel here it seems like sort of a let down.
I was able to handle both versions in short/long actions at Cabela's a couple weeks ago, I still have very mixed feelings about it. The actions were smooth, but not TRG smooth. The trigger was nice, but I'd rather have the 2 stage. I really want to like it because I love my TRG, but it's a hard sell.
I wish it had a full length pic rail, and 20 MOA while at it, It's too far between them to run any of the one piece mounts, and the sako S20 mount is vaporware, especially if you want the 20MOA. Which is the next biggest issue with the S20, can't get the 2 stage trigger, can't get the heavy profile barrel, can't get mags, can't get half of the S20 parts and the rifle has been in stores for almost a year now. As Lowlight has said dealing with Sako/Beretta is just painful. Having the mag release built into the magazine....not sure how I feel about it, it's intuitive, but you have to get the right angles on the mag going in, you can't just slam it in there. Also the mags in 300wm are really bulky. I do really like that it appears all the fasteners I saw were probably like T20 or T25 across the gun, instead of 5 different bit sizes.
As so many others have said I was not impressed with the feel of the stock at all, very cheap feeling plastic and the display models had a lot of dents/scratches, tapping on the plastic isn't like tapping on say AI or KRG side plates, instead it's very hollow thin sounding. Sako says it's a "rubberized leatherlike gripping surface" on the precision version but it's just slick hard plastic, slightly textured at the grip. The hunting version has a couple small rubber like inserts at the grip and forearm. The cheek adjustment felt very iffy and was hard to adjust both up and down. The LOP on the precision stock was super long, no way I could get proper trigger position without sliding my hand way around the grip and I'm 5-11. Looked like there was 2 thin spacers you can remove and the trigger moves a bit, but it's still way too long. The hunting stock was better, or at least felt that way. I also thought the balance of the hunter setup was better, but that might change with an optic.
Add to that we've seen a few video reviews where the rifle did not impressive from an accuracy standpoint, and the fact getting accessories/parts seems basically impossible, and we still can't get a 2 stage trigger or heavy barrel here it seems like sort of a let down.
For a one piece 20 MOA mount I went with the Leopold one piece bolt action model. Works perfect! The stock is cheap plastic, but it works ok. Did not have a problem with being too long. I'm 5'11" as well. Still working up loads for it, but even with factory fodder I have not shot over a 1MOA group. Factory match stuff normally .5-.75 MOA. Chamber is very generous (loose) and lead is very long. With loads jumping .010 my COAL is 2.985. Love the rifle so far, but already thinking of replacing the barrel with a heavier version.
Interesting which mount is that? Might be because I was looking at the long action 300WM's but I didn't think most of the 1 piece mounts I was familiar with come close to spanning the gap. I suppose another option would be if you could find an AR type riser that would span the distance, but that would only work if the recoil lugs happened to line up between the two picatinny sections on the S20. Badger makes a nice one but again I think it would be too short. That or just use a good set of individual rings.
Accuracy report is great to hear!
Any idea how painful the barrel change procedure is?
Accuracy report is great to hear!
Any idea how painful the barrel change procedure is?
This is the mount I purchased for my S20:
www.brownells.com
As for using an AR riser, I think that it would work. I did check the spacing on the receiver of the S20 and it DOES maintain correct picatinny spacing across the center section of action.
As for pain in replacing the barrel, I have no idea!!! That said, I just replaced a barrel on a Tikka T3 and it was nearly Impossible to remove. King Kong must have used a cheater bar on it. I ended up chucking it up in the lathe and relieving material on the barrel to relax the barrel shoulder/receiver junction.....after that I literally spun the barrel out with fingers. Don't know if Tikka and Sako come out of the same factory, but something to think about.
100034134 | Brownells
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As for using an AR riser, I think that it would work. I did check the spacing on the receiver of the S20 and it DOES maintain correct picatinny spacing across the center section of action.
As for pain in replacing the barrel, I have no idea!!! That said, I just replaced a barrel on a Tikka T3 and it was nearly Impossible to remove. King Kong must have used a cheater bar on it. I ended up chucking it up in the lathe and relieving material on the barrel to relax the barrel shoulder/receiver junction.....after that I literally spun the barrel out with fingers. Don't know if Tikka and Sako come out of the same factory, but something to think about.
Reviving an old thread because I just ordered one of the precision in 308 from BPS with $200 off. I plan to get the hunter stock down the road.
Same here. I tried a two stage for a year and never could get myself to like it. A 1lb single stage is what I settled on.
I just took the Precision model with 24” home yesterday. It is a beautiful and well built rifle overall. The stock does feel cheap because the plastic is very thing and makes that hollow sound when touched. There is no play or wiggle at all though and the fit and finish is very good. The barrel feels a bit thin at the muzzle which I assume is to better balance the entire gun.
I am waiting for the rings to mount a scope on it so I can shoot it next weekend.
I am waiting for the rings to mount a scope on it so I can shoot it next weekend.
Is there an update from Sako on heavier profile barrels and two stage triggers for the US market?
I like everything on this gun for my purpose save for the profile and the single only trigger option at the moment
Replacement barrels are not listed either
I like everything on this gun for my purpose save for the profile and the single only trigger option at the moment
Replacement barrels are not listed either
I haven't really seen anything new, aside they must not be selling well in the states, not only has the street price dropped about $300, but they were offering $300 by including the other front/rear stock set free by rebate. Still multiple accessories that have never made it to the US market, heavy profile barrels, 2 stage trigger options, 2 different length ARCA plates, heavy barrel channel adapter, new barricade stop with pic rail slots, etc. Very few reviews or talk of them on the various forums, and I've yet to see any of the 2-stage or medium profile barrels available here, but they are widely available for some time internationally. Not really surprising, Beretta's support in the US is abysmal.
I asked how they were doing on a recent return trip to Cabelas and it didn't sound like they sold many, sales guy said most people look at them immediately comment on the cheap plastic stock feel/hollow noise, it's like tapping on a drum. On the plus side you could probably use a small branch on the stock for rattling in game, they just need to market it as a game call amplifier.
I asked how they were doing on a recent return trip to Cabelas and it didn't sound like they sold many, sales guy said most people look at them immediately comment on the cheap plastic stock feel/hollow noise, it's like tapping on a drum. On the plus side you could probably use a small branch on the stock for rattling in game, they just need to market it as a game call amplifier.
Ouch. I’ve been leaning more toward the Seekins Hit.I haven't really seen anything new, aside they must not be selling well in the states, not only has the street price dropped about $300, but they were offering $300 by including the other front/rear stock set free by rebate. Still multiple accessories that have never made it to the US market, heavy profile barrels, 2 stage trigger options, 2 different length ARCA plates, heavy barrel channel adapter, new barricade stop with pic rail slots, etc. Very few reviews or talk of them on the various forums, and I've yet to see any of the 2-stage or medium profile barrels available here, but they are widely available for some time internationally. Not really surprising, Beretta's support in the US is abysmal.
I asked how they were doing on a recent return trip to Cabelas and it didn't sound like they sold many, sales guy said most people look at them immediately comment on the cheap plastic stock feel/hollow noise, it's like tapping on a drum. On the plus side you could probably use a small branch on the stock for rattling in game, they just need to market it as a game call amplifier.
They could completely smash this shit out of the park with a chassis that went on this guns backbone.
All metal comp style/tactical style.
All metal comp style/tactical style.
It's called a TRG M10/A1 if you want it. Or a TRG-22 with a KRG/Vision/Cadex/Pau-Tac if you prefer to go that route. Then you would not have to deal with the split pic rail.
IMO Beretta dropped the ball on this one. It is a very good rifle. But as with all compromises...
I had this happen to two thumb rests for the precision butt stock, but that could very well be from me over tightening the screw. I have not been able to find some solid torque values for that particular screw (although admittedly I have not done too in depth a search and might have missed it in the manual). I mainly use the hunter butt stock now and it has been great.
The only other real issue I have had is from adjusting the trigger pull weight down too much. If you go too low the safety does not work and sometimes the trigger does not reset so a heads up on that. I had it down to like 1 pound 8 oz and it worked most of the time, but I didn't feel quite right due to the safety and trigger reset issue.
Overall, I love the rifle though. It shoots a little more accurately than my tac A1 and loves most of the ammo I have fed it (FGMM, Federal Berger hybrids, ADI, and Norma especially). I have only been able to take it out to 700 yards so far and it can consistently hit 4x4 diamond plates even though I am new to shooting past 300 yards. The only thing I am unsure about is barrel changes, but in a 308 there will be time to figure that out.
So you had a 42A1 and bought a S20 then asked for what you already have? Bummer...
Me thinks "The King" is in need of better advisors...
The 42A1 is an S20 ($1600) and a $1500 stock all for the low low price of $7999.So you had a 42A1 and bought a S20 then asked for what you already have? Bummer...
Me thinks "The King" is in need of better advisors...
I want Sako to put down the bong and release a rifle that is cost effective.
The S20 action is nowhere near the -42, the wheight alone should tell you that.
The price is dependant on production cost amongst other things.
What confounds me is that you obviously did not researched this before buying the rifles?
Maybe you should be the one to put down the bong before clicking the "buy" button?
As a side note: If things were different I'd gladly buy the A1-stock from you for $1500...
Cost effective? Buy a Tikka.
I am interested to see where you got the idea that I bought an S20 without doing my homework?The S20 action is nowhere near the -42, the wheight alone should tell you that.
The price is dependant on production cost amongst other things.
What confounds me is that you obviously did not researched this before buying the rifles?
Maybe you should be the one to put down the bong before clicking the "buy" button?
As a side note: If things were different I'd gladly buy the A1-stock from you for $1500...
Cost effective? Buy a Tikka.
Also, your edgy personal attacks on my intelligence for suggesting that a $3000 rifle be $3000 instead of $8000 are very endearing.
I especially like how you single me out as ignorant when I think I own every single TRG that sako ever made as well as every one of the tactically oriented Tikkas.
It confounds me.
You mean singling you out by quoting your post together with one other or that I have replied to posts to you quoting my text?
You compare the S20 with a TRG saying they are equal, are you not?
I would never attack a weaker person, edgily or not. I question your opinion, reasoning and conclusion.
Owning, or having owned, anything does not show any correlation with anything else, other than perhaps a want to spend money.
Side note: These are what edgy/sarcastic personal attacks look like.
"What confounds me is that you obviously did not researched this before buying the rifles?
Maybe you should be the one to put down the bong before clicking the "buy" button?"
-How is it obvious I did no research on a gun before buying it...when I'm replying to a topic on a common precision rifle forum regarding the rifle as part of my research before buying it?
"I would never attack a weaker person, edgily or not. I question your opinion, reasoning and conclusion."
-Translation: I would never rape you...merely utilize your orifices sexually without your consent. How could you possible make that cognitive mistake? After all, you are the "weaker person".
"Me thinks "The King" is in need of better advisors... "
-No need to belabor the point.
-----------------
I was a machinist at a gun company. I made rifle barrels. I know exactly to the penny what it costs to make something out of metal. And what contributes to cost.
The action on the S20 is more expensive than the TRG42/22 action to manufacture. It started out as roughly the same piece of steel before going in the machining center, and it has more cut time on it than a 42 does. The bolt is identical in most ways to the TRG-42 and may even fit the TRG-42 straight out. The TRG-42 trigger assembly would likely fit and work in the S20.
The aluminum sub-chassis in the S20 contains the majority of the sophisticated and difficult machining already. Increasing it in size to a full chassis would double its cost from about $150 to manufacture to $300. This is well in keeping with the price growth from a Tikka TAC A1 to a Tikka CTR as it cascades to consumers through a distribution network.
They don't do this because then the shell game would end on pricing.
That said - I get to have the last word on this because frankly...the ignore button around here works really good.
Mine is really hard to adjust too. I had to press that lever really hard until I hear a click before I can move it.
Rumors they are going to make carbon fiber stock/forearms for these but only rumors teased so far. It doesn't seem like that would save much weight on what is already not a light gun, but who knows, maybe they can save quite a bit in the rear stock.
I've been keeping an eye on these as I still like the idea of a 300 win mag, I really like the ergonomics. I'd say two things still hold me back. The first is the varying accuracy reports, some people get great ones, and some clearly struggle to get them to shoot. Which is odd for Sako, and in the past Beretta has been less than fun to deal with in the states. You see this even in reviews that list groups for multiple ammo types, many of them struggle to get below 1" and if they do it's JUST below 1". I've seen 3-4 at the range now and none shot impressive (granted I don't know the skill of those shooting them, but they didn't appear to be yahoos). They don't appear to be selling well in the states, some big box stores have stopped carrying them, and they've been giving away $400 in stock parts as rebates forever it seems.
One issue I've read about and seen first hand at the range was it seems like the long actions have problems picking up a round from the magazine. I saw a gentleman struggling with this at the range with a 300 wm and tried to help him out and I had the same problem. Even first round with the bolt open sometimes it would not catch the cartridge to load it. European forums (lot more info on sako's there) have mentioned this issue and that the larger mags seem to do it less than the smaller mags. It seemed like the rounds were sitting as high up as they could (first round) but if it failed mid magazine you could see where the rear of the cartridge was not being held up flush on the feed lips, almost like the mag is pushing up too much in the front but not enough in the rear.
With no heavy barrel and 2 stage trigger in the US the S20 is kind of like a lost child. It can't really do precision/varmint duty without the heavy barrel, and it's quite heavy for a pure hunting rig.
The other issue with a lot of these, say the S20, Lupo, Waypoint, is at these price points you are basically at a Seekins Havak Hit price, and it's hard to image the Seekins isn't more likely to be a better shooter. That said it's a great time to need a deer rifle cause lots of companies are stepping up with interesting options. The early reports on the Lupo suggest it's doing really well from an accuracy standpoint. The Waypoint is popular, the CZ 600 offers switch barrel capability etc.
I've been keeping an eye on these as I still like the idea of a 300 win mag, I really like the ergonomics. I'd say two things still hold me back. The first is the varying accuracy reports, some people get great ones, and some clearly struggle to get them to shoot. Which is odd for Sako, and in the past Beretta has been less than fun to deal with in the states. You see this even in reviews that list groups for multiple ammo types, many of them struggle to get below 1" and if they do it's JUST below 1". I've seen 3-4 at the range now and none shot impressive (granted I don't know the skill of those shooting them, but they didn't appear to be yahoos). They don't appear to be selling well in the states, some big box stores have stopped carrying them, and they've been giving away $400 in stock parts as rebates forever it seems.
One issue I've read about and seen first hand at the range was it seems like the long actions have problems picking up a round from the magazine. I saw a gentleman struggling with this at the range with a 300 wm and tried to help him out and I had the same problem. Even first round with the bolt open sometimes it would not catch the cartridge to load it. European forums (lot more info on sako's there) have mentioned this issue and that the larger mags seem to do it less than the smaller mags. It seemed like the rounds were sitting as high up as they could (first round) but if it failed mid magazine you could see where the rear of the cartridge was not being held up flush on the feed lips, almost like the mag is pushing up too much in the front but not enough in the rear.
With no heavy barrel and 2 stage trigger in the US the S20 is kind of like a lost child. It can't really do precision/varmint duty without the heavy barrel, and it's quite heavy for a pure hunting rig.
The other issue with a lot of these, say the S20, Lupo, Waypoint, is at these price points you are basically at a Seekins Havak Hit price, and it's hard to image the Seekins isn't more likely to be a better shooter. That said it's a great time to need a deer rifle cause lots of companies are stepping up with interesting options. The early reports on the Lupo suggest it's doing really well from an accuracy standpoint. The Waypoint is popular, the CZ 600 offers switch barrel capability etc.
