Same Grain, Different Caliber As Starting point

[snipershidephil]

Hey guys, I'm getting into reloading and had some questions on where to start with the load. There isn't much info out there about 6mm creedmoor and I was wondering, can I take a 6.5 creedmoor load and start with the data for a similar grain bullet (like 107grain)? Is this a bad idea?

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[Milo 2.5]

Very bad idea, you're shrunk the hole dia, the 6.5 with same weight bullet will handle a lot more powder. Just start by scanning reloading depot or asking for starter loads here.

 

[snipershidephil]

Very bad idea

Alright, thanks for the heads up.

Looking for data for use with:
6mm creedmoor
Hodgdon Varget
105 Berger hybrids
Hornady brass
CCI 200

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[Milo 2.5]

I'm no 6 creed expert, but have done loads for a few, Varget is a fast powder, it will work I'm sure, but H4350 range, 42gr getting close to max, or better yet H4831 with 46gr max. I think searching for powder upfront will help you.

 

[snipershidephil]

I'd like to get my hands on some h4350 but it's sold out everywhere. That said, I'd really like to give Varget a shot since I already bought it.

From what I've gathered from the 6x47 guys is that 37gr of Varget is the ticket with 105 hybrids. I know the case dimensions are different for the 6x47 but I *think* I can infer a start load comparing the relationships between (6.5x47 vs 6.5CM) and (6x47 vs 6CM). I just don't want to regret it...if I can't confidently come up with something I'll be forced to change powder

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[Milo 2.5]

Good luck, just remember the creed case has substantially more capacity, it does not mean it is useable with that fast of powder. Does Hodgdon website list data?

 

[Milo 2.5]

Do this, go here and run varget with 6.5x47 lapua, 243 win, and 6mm-250, and 105 bullets, give a good scope of what is going on.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

You will see the 243, way more case capacity, uses the same amount of powder.

 

[snipershidephil]

According to this, .243 and 6x47 are nearly identical (0.2gr difference), however, there seems to be a discrepancy between this data and what people are reporting. Hodgdon states a max load for 6x47 w/Varget @ 33.2gr whereas actual shooters are saying they run ~37gr...not sure what to make of this.

I just don't see why it wouldn't work with 6CM. If it works in 243 (which has substantially more case capacity) and it works in 6x47 (which has substantially less) and it works in 6.5CM, why wouldn't it work in 6CM?

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[Milo 2.5]

According to this, .243 and 6x47 are nearly identical (0.2gr difference), however, there seems to be a discrepancy between this data and what people are reporting. Hodgdon states a max load for 6x47 w/Varget @ 33.2gr whereas actual shooters are saying they run ~37gr...not sure what to make of this.

I just don't see why it wouldn't work with 6CM. If it works in 243 (which has substantially more case capacity) and it works in 6x47 (which has substantially less) and it works in 6.5CM, why wouldn't it work in 6CM?

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If you reread my 2nd post, I said it will most likely work but implied it would not be my first choice, or any choice for that matter, carry on.

 

[sandwarrior]

According to this, .243 and 6x47 are nearly identical (0.2gr difference), however, there seems to be a discrepancy between this data and what people are reporting. Hodgdon states a max load for 6x47 w/Varget @ 33.2gr whereas actual shooters are saying they run ~37gr...not sure what to make of this.

I just don't see why it wouldn't work with 6CM. If it works in 243 (which has substantially more case capacity) and it works in 6x47 (which has substantially less) and it works in 6.5CM, why wouldn't it work in 6CM?

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First of all, lets step back to the second post, "VERY BAD IDEA". It's not good to go on the internet, get a load and start there. You will find on the Hodgdon, as well as the www.alliantpowder.com and www.accuratepowder.com that there is a STARTING POINT! Start there and work up. STOP this bullshit of trying to find the perfect load (OCW) your first time out. Each rifle is different. You need to reload working up to what works correctly in your rifle.

If you need to interpolate, you know the 6mm Creedmoor has more capacity than the 6X47 and less capacity than the .243. But, the shoulder matches the 6X47, and that affects burn characteristics. So, you use the starting point of the smaller case and work up. Load just two rounds. Then add .3 to .5 gr. and load two more. Again, increase and load two more. Using smaller increments as you increase allows you to fine tune your load better.

I'm getting really sick of hearing "just start here...it's what I use." That will get your face blown off if you don't know what you are doing. Loading for a wildcat like the 6mm Creedmoor (which it mostly still is) isn't really a good idea either, unless you already know where minimum and maximum limits are. You might also look up 6mm International (.300 case version) as a place to start.

 

[supercorndogs]

I'd like to get my hands on some h4350 but it's sold out everywhere. That said, I'd really like to give Varget a shot since I already bought it.

From what I've gathered from the 6x47 guys is that 37gr of Varget is the ticket with 105 hybrids. I know the case dimensions are different for the 6x47 but I *think* I can infer a start load comparing the relationships between (6.5x47 vs 6.5CM) and (6x47 vs 6CM). I just don't want to regret it...if I can't confidently come up with something I'll be forced to change powder

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Thats why it is important to learn about what you are doing before you start. Sure it will work, but you will make lots of pressure and not much velocity. That is why most people shooting fast 6mm's are using h1000, 4451, 4350, 7977, retumbo, RL26, RL25, RL22, 4000mr, 4831SC, with 105s.

You are looking to find a starting point, the 6 creed and 243 would be the ones to compare for a starting point.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Mishaps do happen, but blow your face off is extreme, I also suggest buying 1-2 reloading manuals and try to understand what happens in the sequence of reloading. You neck a parent case down, pressures go up, that is where slower powders come in, keeps pressures down and speeds up.

 

[sandwarrior]

Mishaps do happen, but blow your face off is extreme, I also suggest buying 1-2 reloading manuals and try to understand what happens in the sequence of reloading. You neck a parent case down, pressures go up, that is where slower powders come in, keeps pressures down and speeds up.

Correct. Buying the manuals and understanding all the mitigating factors is the best way to start. Blowing ones face off is an extreme, but it does happen. Particularly when someone does not understand something they are doing that is dangerous.

 

[snipershidephil]

Alright, thanks for the help guys. My main concern is safety, of course. I figured there was no loading data because it was just a new cartridge. I guess I'll have to abandon Varget.

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[Milo 2.5]

Alright, thanks for the help guys. My main concern is safety, of course. I figured there was no loading data because it was just a new cartridge. I guess I'll have to abandon Varget.

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For fucks sake, abandon seeking advice if you cannot filter what was explained.

 

[sandwarrior]

Alright, thanks for the help guys. My main concern is safety, of course. I figured there was no loading data because it was just a new cartridge. I guess I'll have to abandon Varget.

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As Milo 2.5 said previously, "While not optimal, it will work."

Since you've already bought it, and it will work, this is a good way to get your feet wet in the reloading world.

Added:
I'm adding this to show you how to interpolate information safely. You also need to go to the Hodgdon website and follow along.
When you go onto their website you find an option for reloading data. Once you click on that you get the warning/liability page. Click AGREE and the get to your comparisons.
First note there are two 6X47's. The second has an MM after it. Click that cartridge as the other is based off the .222 Rem mag. Then click Hodgdon for powder and Varget for type of powder. You will see 29 gr. to start and 33 gr. max. You will see the same numbers almost for the .243. Note that while there are differences in their cases, each is a good place to start. Work up as we said before in .3 to .5 increments. Typically, I load above what the book gives for max. But, I expect to pull rounds down after working up the ladder for pressure testing.

As soon as you see pressure signs, stop shooting. Pull the rounds down that we're made hotter. Keep a notebook with you and write down where you got. Now you can take those se loads and shoot a "round-robin". That is how to properly achieve an OCW. What you are finding is an accuracy node that the charge weights don't affect velocity too much. It works better with each slower powder you use. H1000 will show it better than H4350. But, it still shows.

 

[Milo 2.5]

As Milo 2.5 said previously, "While not optimal, it will work."

Since you've already bought it, and it will work, this is a good way to get your feet wet in the reloading world.

Added:
I'm adding this to show you how to interpolate information safely. You also need to go to the Hodgdon website and follow along.
When you go onto their website you find an option for reloading data. Once you click on that you get the warning/liability page. Click AGREE and the get to your comparisons.
First note there are two 6X47's. The second has an MM after it. Click that cartridge as the other is based off the .222 Rem mag. Then click Hodgdon for powder and Varget for type of powder. You will see 29 gr. to start and 33 gr. max. You will see the same numbers almost for the .243. Note that while there are differences in their cases, each is a good place to start. Work up as we said before in .3 to .5 increments. Typically, I load above what the book gives for max. But, I expect to pull rounds down after working up the ladder for pressure testing.

As soon as you see pressure signs, stop shooting. Pull the rounds down that we're made hotter. Keep a notebook with you and write down where you got. Now you can take those se loads and shoot a "round-robin". That is how to properly achieve an OCW. What you are finding is an accuracy node that the charge weights don't affect velocity too much. It works better with each slower powder you use. H1000 will show it better than H4350. But, it still shows.

Thanks sandwarrior for being more tolerant than myself.
One more thing to consider is case fill, in this case it is way low, when you tip a cartridge over(in chamber), you stand the chance of funky powder burns, can result in hangfires, not fun.
Please buy a manual and read, or find a mentor.
Going off quickload, most likely you can shoot 37gr of varget, but you need to get their safely. An under pressured case can be downright dangerous too, and unless the case actually gets sucked inward, tough to tell what is going on.

 

[sandwarrior]

Thanks sandwarrior for being more tolerant than myself.
One more thing to consider is case fill, in this case it is way low, when you tip a cartridge over(in chamber), you stand the chance of funky powder burns, can result in hangfires, not fun.
Please buy a manual and read, or find a mentor.
Going off quickload, most likely you can shoot 37gr of varget, but you need to get their safely. An under pressured case can be downright dangerous too, and unless the case actually gets sucked inward, tough to tell what is going on.

Correct. Case fill would be more optimal with a slower burning powder. FWIW, I'm using RE-17 and RE-19 in my 6.5 Creed and RE-19 along with RE-22 in my 7mm-08. Two relatively small cartridges in comparison to many 30-06 based cases and magnums, yet using powder they would use.

I also agree on quickload's endpoint for pressure being more like 37 than Hodgdon's 33. Unfortunately, 33 is the lawyer limit. Much like getting 8-11 pound triggers off the shelf on firearms. This is why I say work up. Typically, Quickload, from what I understood years ago when I asked about it, sets their max pressures with the bullet to the lands. Which is the highest pressure you can obtain with any given load. So, realisticly, you could go higher than that. But, again, you need to work up to where your rifle shoots the best and isn't showing pressure signs. If you can find a node that is lower, that is the better route to take.

Added: In the long run, Varget is not going to be optimal. What you might want to do is save it for loading small cases, like .223 or BR, if you ever go down that road. It won't be too expensive to find a slower, more optimal powder for the 6mm Creed. Powders, I recommend are RE-19, RE-22, Alliant PowerPro-4000, H4350, H4831/SC, H414, Superformance, IMR 4451, IMR 7977, IMR 7828, IMR4831 (now formulated like H4831SC), Accurate 4350, Accurate 2700, Accurate 3100, Accurate Magpro, Ramshot Hunter, Ramshot Magnum, VV N150, VV N160, VV N165, VV 550, VV 560, Vectan 4000, Vectan 5000.

The list seems kind of extensive, but if you look at a burn chart it will show most of the slower powders that would work well with your 6mm Creedmoor.

Another resource is to contact Hornady for optimal powder.

 

[snipershidephil]

Alright guys, I have an update on the situation. Using quickload I was able to use the 6XC cartridge and just up the case capacity by a few grains.

This gave me a decent starting point using Varget with 6mm creedmoor. Starting from 36.0gr, I worked up in .5gr increments to a final load of 38.5gr @ 3060fps which I'm pretty happy with. I did not see any pressure signs and the rifle shot great!

I have more experimenting to do to really dial it in but overall I'm very excited everything went well. Quickload was spot on! Thanks for the help guys

105gr Berger hybrids
38.5gr Varget
3060 fps

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[Milo 2.5]

Alright guys, I have an update on the situation. Using quickload I was able to use the 6XC cartridge and just up the case capacity by a few grains.

This gave me a decent starting point using Varget with 6mm creedmoor. Starting from 36.0gr, I worked up in .5gr increments to a final load of 38.5gr @ 3060fps which I'm pretty happy with. I did not see any pressure signs and the rifle shot great!

I have more experimenting to do to really dial it in but overall I'm very excited everything went well. Quickload was spot on! Thanks for the help guys

105gr Berger hybrids
38.5gr Varget
3060 fps

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

If you have QL, you can build 6 creed off the parent case, you just need 243 parameters and reduced case capacity.