Savage 338 Lapua Mag help!

[bodywerks]

Not sure if savage is admitting to a problem or not, but there is definitely a problem. Some have been able to remedy the issue with adjusting headspace (too tight from the factory) and/or going to a small base die.
Even if it does remedy it, though, it shouldn't have to be done with a factory new rifle...

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[SPAK]

Yeah this happens right at the first loading/firing but prior to being fired it chambers perfectly.

Then more than likely the rifle needs to go back to savage.... You can try firing factory rounds just to have all your bases covered... You shouldn't have to deal with this. Savage should pick up the cost of shipping too...

But in all likelihood unless your loads are way over pressure you probably need a new chamber.....

Now that I think of it, if your neck is to tight and you're not getting proper release of your bullet that will cause high pressures and give you the problems that you're having with sticky bolt lift and extraction....

If that is the case I would try turning yiur new brass necks down to .0135-.0140" and see if that gives you a enough clearance... You can turn down some more if your sizing die will still give you adequate neck tension..

 

[High Binder]

It was only a couple weeks ago: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/sniper-hide-gunsmithing/180650-input-what-happened-brass.html

Hopefully my previous post was *very obviously* not serious!

DO NOT LOAD A 338LM CARTRIDGE WITH H4895 AND H1000 MIXED!

Funny enough, that's actually not the guy I was thinking. The dude I was thinking about posted a bunch of pics of a savage barrel removed from the action that has been blown to hell and back this was about a month or two before the site switched to the new format.

 

[High Binder]

Then more than likely the rifle needs to go back to savage.... You can try firing factory rounds just to have all your bases covered... You shouldn't have to deal with this. Savage should pick up the cost of shipping too...

But in all likelihood unless your loads are way over pressure you probably need a new chamber.....

Now that I think of it, if your neck is to tight and you're not getting proper release of your bullet that will cause high pressures and give you the problems that you're having with sticky bolt lift and extraction....

If that is the case I would try turning yiur new brass necks down to .0135-.0140" and see if that gives you a enough clearance... You can turn down some more if your sizing die will still give you adequate neck tension..

Fahk! I'll see if I can scrounge some factory rounds with the same brass (good luck) to try it out. Thanks for the help man. I worked as a machinist for 6 years and still have some of the mold making stuff we would use to check thread patterns and all that in holes/gears/etc. against an optical comparator. I'll mix up a batch of that and slug the chamber with it and take dimensions off that slug before I do anything else but I'm betting they match the brass pretty well.

 

[High Binder]

Not sure if savage is admitting to a problem or not, but there is definitely a problem. Some have been able to remedy the issue with adjusting headspace (too tight from the factory) and/or going to a small base die.
Even if it does remedy it, though, it shouldn't have to be done with a factory new rifle...
2

I agree and there are a TON of threads on the internet with this exact same gun/problem but none of them has any solutions or people who can solve/ID the problem like this site has so so far this has been the most comprehensive thread on this topic.

 

[bodywerks]

Would be nice to get your hands on a set of go/nogo gauges to check headspace. Cuz it's either that, you need a small base die set, or they used a reamer with too short/small of a neck.
You should call them and ask if they've heard of this problem before. They will probably tell you no cuz that's what they've been coached to do. But try to find out what factory ammo they are using to test fire 338lm rifles and try to get your hands on some. If memory serves they use hornady 215gr match ammo. Then again, I'm sure any factory ammo you can get your hands on to prove that it isn't your hand loads would satisfy their requirements. Problem is, it seems that it is the heavier bullet loads (300gr) that most people experience the bolt lift issues, and i haven't seen 300gr match ammo.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[SPAK]

Fahk! I'll see if I can scrounge some factory rounds with the same brass (good luck) to try it out. Thanks for the help man. I worked as a machinist for 6 years and still have some of the mold making stuff we would use to check thread patterns and all that in holes/gears/etc. against an optical comparator. I'll mix up a batch of that and slug the chamber with it and take dimensions off that slug before I do anything else but I'm betting they match the brass pretty well.

I'm betting the brass matches the chamber as well.

if your necks are measuring .016-.017" closer to the neck shoulder junction, unless savage uses a tapered neck on the .338 lapua reamer (not completely unheard of I've seen a few reamer prints with tapered necks vs straight necks in the chamber) You're absolutely going to have tight fitting neck. .016+.016+.3380=.370" which doesn't give you any clearance at all and is probably what's giving you fits.

If you use Berger 300 otm, there is a slight pressure ring at the base of the bullet at the boatail junction that measures slightly larger than .3380". So that's not going to help your clearance issues either.

Personally, if your barrel shoots well, I'd try to make it work with your reloading "remedies" i.e. neck turning, shoulder bumping. But I wouldn't try that hard. If you ever had to sell the rifle you'd be in a bind trying to safely sell it.

I wouldn't blame you for a minute if you called up Joe DeGrande at Savage and had him take care of it. I'd make sure they shoot a test target before they send your rifle back or a new rifle for that matter and make sure it shoots.

 

[mudpig]

Damn, that's a .003" difference at the neck but only a .0005" difference at the base. My problem must be in the throat, do you have any extraction problems?

High Binder...lost track of this thread for a bit. The 1st 20 rounds thru this rifle were with Factory DoubleTap ammo (lapua brass/300gr SMK) These rounds were pretty peppy running 2830fps. Initial prefiring chambering was smooth as would be expected AS WAS extraction. I went and reloaded these rounds with initial ladder testing using Retumbo and WC872 with Hornady 285gr MBTHP and neck sizing ONLY. A few of these loads closed firmly as I closed the bolt. Out of the 20 rounds, I had 4 that needed to be tapped out of the chamber with a rod...and silly me...I didn't pay attention to the fact if these were the same loads that closed with more effort, but I'm guessing that they were. I have since ordered some PTG head space gauges and am awaiting their delivery, just to double check the factory specs. I also went thru over the weekend and re-read Zediker's book "Handloading for Competition". I don't remember the page number, but he explains this exact situation and the cure== bump the shoulder back .002!!! I also ordered a bump guage and I don't have that yet..so I just went slowly on my adjustment for now and got this brass pushed back so that it would freely chamber with light resistance (as I could not rechamber these fired cases at all). I've reloaded these, but haven't made it out to the range to test yet and will let you know how it goes.

As for your neck issue. I would love to have a tight neck in my rifle, but .004 clearance on mine isn't terrible. I've got a few other tight necked rifles in my safe and I always allow .002 of clearance between a loaded round neck measurement and the fired neck measurement. If my fired brass was coming out .368 like yours, I would turn down my brass so that loaded rounds measured .366 which would put you at .014 neck thickness. Hope this helps and keep us posted.

Chris

 

[varmint slayer]

In the end, if it were me, I would just send the gun back to Savage. For the money you paid for the gun, you shouldn't have to worry about these problems. There is something wrong and they need to fix it on their dime.

 

[High Binder]

Hope this helps and keep us posted.

Thanks, I will keep you guys posted!

 

[timelinex]

I say don't give up on it. Once you figure it out it will be worth it. Check out all the 110ba threads, and it seems like everyone is getting 2775+FPS out of their loads. Im personally getting between 2800-2830 depending on the load and temperature. While any other person I've talked to that has a 338 never see's anything over 2750 before running into serious pressure (not everyone obviously, just my experience). So obviously savage is definitely doing something that is causing all these 'headaches' for people reloading, but the advantage is that it ends up producing a higher velocity and good accuracy once they figure it out.

 

[High Binder]

I say don't give up on it. Once you figure it out it will be worth it. Check out all the 110ba threads, and it seems like everyone is getting 2775+FPS out of their loads. Im personally getting between 2800-2830 depending on the load and temperature. While any other person I've talked to that has a 338 never see's anything over 2750 before running into serious pressure (not everyone obviously, just my experience). So obviously savage is definitely doing something that is causing all these 'headaches' for people reloading, but the advantage is that it ends up producing a higher velocity and good accuracy once they figure it out.

10-4 on that. I'm in the process of setting up a cast of the chamber so I can really see what's going on. I'll post pics here.

 

[mr_diggs]

here is what Savage emailed me.

XXXXX, This is Paul, Director of Service, for Savage Arms and I am taking over this email exchange. While I don't doubt your ability to reload or your equipment we are at the mercy of following strict protocol in technical questions of this nature to avoid liability issues. The only answer that we can be give is... "we as a company don't suggest reloaded ammunition" and if you are having problems with SAAMI spec new ammunition we can take a look at the firearm and adjust anything that is out of specifications. If you feel there is something out of specifications with that rifle we will happily take it back and test it with SAAMI ammo and proceed to correct or replace anything that might be causing an issue. I would even be willing to offer a pre paid call tag to get the rifle back to Savage at no expense to you.
Thanks,
XXXXXXXXX

 

[turbo54]

In my opinion, you can't ask for better than that response.

 

[High Binder]

here is what Savage emailed me.

XXXXX, This is Paul, Director of Service, for Savage Arms and I am taking over this email exchange. While I don't doubt your ability to reload or your equipment we are at the mercy of following strict protocol in technical questions of this nature to avoid liability issues. The only answer that we can be give is... "we as a company don't suggest reloaded ammunition" and if you are having problems with SAAMI spec new ammunition we can take a look at the firearm and adjust anything that is out of specifications. If you feel there is something out of specifications with that rifle we will happily take it back and test it with SAAMI ammo and proceed to correct or replace anything that might be causing an issue. I would even be willing to offer a pre paid call tag to get the rifle back to Savage at no expense to you.
Thanks,
XXXXXXXXX

Thanks for posting that and dragging this post back up from the dead (I thought all my old posts were deleted when I lost my 7000+ post count). Anyway. That's good info and might be worth sending mine back just to see what they say. Did you contact them because you're having the same problem or something else?

 

[diego-ted]

It's my understanding Savage will not acknowledge the problem because it does not occur with factory ammo. I have solved the problem by using a modest load of 87gr of H1000 pushing a SMK 300 with FGMM 215 primers in Lapua brass trimmed to 2.714 that was full siz I d to new Lapua specs. This load is good out to a mile! This being said, I am going to have 5he chamber polished out this month. I have about 800 rounds down the pipe.

 

[P7id10t]

Thanks for posting that and dragging this post back up from the dead (I thought all my old posts were deleted when I lost my 7000+ post count). Anyway. That's good info and might be worth sending mine back just to see what they say. Did you contact them because you're having the same problem or something else?

I called Savage about my stuckage problem back a while ago. The courteous woman on the phone explained carefully, "we use Black Hills ammunition with xx bullets. If these chamber, fire and extract without problems in your gun, we will charge you for the shipping and all the time spent." In other words, "you reload, fuck you."

Meanwhile, I have 120 casings from a guy here in Portland, all Hornady match ammo (still have the boxes) and EVERY ONE of them got stuck in his 110 FCP. He was going to give me all the brass, but that wasn't right, so I gave him 100 Berger 300 OTMs in trade. I've since loaded and shot those cases. What I find (posted it elsewhere), depending on the powder, as you approach within a grain of the magic amount, it will become more difficult to extract some of them, and once you reach that cursed number, every one will be stuck. Light taps on a dowel will remove them. If you exceed the amount by a grain or more, you'll have to pound the mothers out.

Did you ever take a mold of your chamber? I'm really interested in what you found!

 

[Grizzdude]

So how did it turn out highbinder? when I first got my rifle i bought a box of hornady and they would give me tough bolt lift and then I noticed my bolt face had a dent blown out of it. I contacted joe degrande and he got my rifle in asap and returned to me within a week. Ever since then I've been reloading and no problems have occurred.

 

[Fuzzball]

PD: "Take a Cast of your chamber and head space. Measure and compare the cast to your fire-formed case"

It would be interesting to know how to make a chamber cast that would show "headspace".

 

[Dougc]

They use Black Hills brass and only lapua lead i dont know what grain, I am on my 2nd new 110BA from savage. they reamed the chamber when i sent it back to them for the same problem
Use a black marker on your brass and the neck fire it pope the brass out and check closely. they distroyed the chamber on my first gun.