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Savage now and then AKA why people hate Savage
- Thread starter MoBoost
- Start date
This says nothing at all about Savage rifles. It does however say everything about you.
Just like life is too short for cheap alcohol...some people feel life is too short for ugly guns. And that's okay - different flavors for different tastes.
I like Woodford Reserve (been known to have a lil' Turkey 101 too) but also partake of Coors Lite, Glocks and Savages.
So, yeah, something?
I like Woodford Reserve (been known to have a lil' Turkey 101 too) but also partake of Coors Lite, Glocks and Savages.
So, yeah, something?
I like how people are now claiming that Howa is a .25 MOA out of the box shooter with "descent" ammo. When am I going to see the Howa shooters come show up George and the boys at matches?
I guess we can quit buying customs now because Howa does it in mass production what the best smiths in the country can't do every time.
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I guess we can quit buying customs now because Howa does it in mass production what the best smiths in the country can't do every time.
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my question is, why has this even turned into an argument? the only thing that is being argued here is how much a personal preference sucks.
when I got into long range I was on a very tight budget, I bought a savage 110ba in 300wm and a vortex viper PST. the entire rig ran me about 2800$. I wanted a full blown custom but that was not possible in my situation, nor is it now. over time I have been changing things on the gun. ditched the brake for an APA fat bastard, got rid of the rail system that came on it for a Farrell precision base, went with a timmney trigger, a set of atlas BT10s to replace my cheap POS bipods I was trying to use, and had my smith do a cerakote job on it. I slowly over the course of 3 years have gotten to this point. next is an optics upgrade.
the fact is, the savage was what I could afford at the time. I know, I know I could have picked up a 700 also and probably saved some money BUT I actually liked the 110ba from the start. the rifle has served me very well over the time I have been learning to shoot it.
.5moa accuracy with my hand loads and if I do my part, the "fit and finish" comes nowhere near close to a GAP, AI, etc. etc. but it works and gets me on the range and shooting. I have outshot a few guys with custom built rifles and I have also had my ass kicked by them as well. at the end of the day, I feel if the shoe fits, wear it. if you can afford a top tier custom, by all means buy one and I will admire your equipment at the range. I will admire it even more if you know how to use it well. if you cant afford it, a savage OR a 700 will at least get you shooting and learning. and if you show up with a factory savage or a 700 and ping steel all day with it at a match or whatever, that's what really matters in the end.
guys like "George and the boys" kick ass more so due to their skill level than the rifle itself. put a man behind a GAP or any other high end custom that has no clue what he is doing and yes the savage or the 700 or howa will probably win in that situation if the shooter behind it has the skill he needs to score hits. those top tier rifles give the pros that extra performance they can utilize in a match. as said before, a majority of shooters out there including myself cant shoot a 700 or a savage to its full potential let alone a custom rig.
imo, shoot what you can afford and get to the range as often as you can. learn, refine your skills, and be happy you are able to participate in the sport.
when I got into long range I was on a very tight budget, I bought a savage 110ba in 300wm and a vortex viper PST. the entire rig ran me about 2800$. I wanted a full blown custom but that was not possible in my situation, nor is it now. over time I have been changing things on the gun. ditched the brake for an APA fat bastard, got rid of the rail system that came on it for a Farrell precision base, went with a timmney trigger, a set of atlas BT10s to replace my cheap POS bipods I was trying to use, and had my smith do a cerakote job on it. I slowly over the course of 3 years have gotten to this point. next is an optics upgrade.
the fact is, the savage was what I could afford at the time. I know, I know I could have picked up a 700 also and probably saved some money BUT I actually liked the 110ba from the start. the rifle has served me very well over the time I have been learning to shoot it.
.5moa accuracy with my hand loads and if I do my part, the "fit and finish" comes nowhere near close to a GAP, AI, etc. etc. but it works and gets me on the range and shooting. I have outshot a few guys with custom built rifles and I have also had my ass kicked by them as well. at the end of the day, I feel if the shoe fits, wear it. if you can afford a top tier custom, by all means buy one and I will admire your equipment at the range. I will admire it even more if you know how to use it well. if you cant afford it, a savage OR a 700 will at least get you shooting and learning. and if you show up with a factory savage or a 700 and ping steel all day with it at a match or whatever, that's what really matters in the end.
guys like "George and the boys" kick ass more so due to their skill level than the rifle itself. put a man behind a GAP or any other high end custom that has no clue what he is doing and yes the savage or the 700 or howa will probably win in that situation if the shooter behind it has the skill he needs to score hits. those top tier rifles give the pros that extra performance they can utilize in a match. as said before, a majority of shooters out there including myself cant shoot a 700 or a savage to its full potential let alone a custom rig.
imo, shoot what you can afford and get to the range as often as you can. learn, refine your skills, and be happy you are able to participate in the sport.
Everyone's a critic; and that's pretty alright with me. Folks have every right to have and express an opinion. But we're (ostensibly) a site about shooting, and not about nitpicking the esthetics of our rifles.
Here's another platitude: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. By broke, I mean it has a flaw which prevents it from reaching its designed potential. That does not include how it looks or how it feels.
Rifles are tools, they often need some aftermarket refinement. In my case, that usually means some accommodation to my lankier build and my intolerance of heavier recoil. For me, it's a matter of function, not form. I spend as much as is needed for function, and pretty much not even a dime for form.
How matters like looks and feel affect the equation are factors which have no meaning in my formula for making a better rifle. Once the eye candy has done its job, it's still a matter of getting the rifle home from the seller. After the box is opened, the real story begins.
I have three Remmies, and three Savs. The Savs all get shot on a regular basis; the Remmies are in the collection because they are family heirlooms and I'm the senior gun guy in the family.
Greg
Here's another platitude: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. By broke, I mean it has a flaw which prevents it from reaching its designed potential. That does not include how it looks or how it feels.
Rifles are tools, they often need some aftermarket refinement. In my case, that usually means some accommodation to my lankier build and my intolerance of heavier recoil. For me, it's a matter of function, not form. I spend as much as is needed for function, and pretty much not even a dime for form.
How matters like looks and feel affect the equation are factors which have no meaning in my formula for making a better rifle. Once the eye candy has done its job, it's still a matter of getting the rifle home from the seller. After the box is opened, the real story begins.
I have three Remmies, and three Savs. The Savs all get shot on a regular basis; the Remmies are in the collection because they are family heirlooms and I'm the senior gun guy in the family.
Greg
"If I do my part".
.
.
.
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I did have a factory Savage 12FV 223 barrel that produced consistent sub-half MOA 5-shot groups at 100 & 200 yards, and did so on 2 different actions in 3 different stocks with factory and aftermarket recoil lugs. Best "cherry-picked" group was 5 shots, 100yd, about 0.25" from a bench.
I was a moron for selling that barrel.
But me calling it quarter MOA would be a HUGE exaggeration...as would any interwebs Tikka/Howa/Remington/Savage/etc.
And as preciously mentioned, a rifle's pure mechanical accuracy (and yeah its gonna be higher in a custom than a an assembly-line factory rifle) is wasted if the shooter cannot take advantage of it. Put me behind George's best rifle and I probably couldn't produce anything close to quarter MOA...
It's strange these wonder guns never show up, huh?
I had an old guy on my NRA committee locally tell me the wonders of his Savage and his skill. He shoots 1/4 MOA at 350 boringly. I offered to drive him and pay his entry fee if he'd show everybody his mad skills and amazing Savage. Hell, I offered to buy his meals. He declined because he just didn't have time. He's retired after all and that tv won't watch itself.
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I had an old guy on my NRA committee locally tell me the wonders of his Savage and his skill. He shoots 1/4 MOA at 350 boringly. I offered to drive him and pay his entry fee if he'd show everybody his mad skills and amazing Savage. Hell, I offered to buy his meals. He declined because he just didn't have time. He's retired after all and that tv won't watch itself.
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Well....my 700, with a factory tube, set back and rechambered, in a McRee....is a 1MOA shooter, boringly. With some work, and a load it likes, it will put five in .75 fairly regularly.
Guess what? I am just fine with that. I dont need to embellish, cherry pick groups, or make grandiose claims because 1MOA does what I need to do, at just about any range I need to do it at.
Guess what? I am just fine with that. I dont need to embellish, cherry pick groups, or make grandiose claims because 1MOA does what I need to do, at just about any range I need to do it at.
My experience, if one truly shoots 1MOA across the course, they ace the target.
Very, very few actually accomplish that, but when they do, it's a good chance they are the winner. Sometimes less will do.
All I ever ask of my handloads is 1 MOA; and if I get it, that means the rifle was doing its job all along, and for once in a long while, so was I.
I spent most of the first few years of my involvement here at The 'Hide working at making factory rifles shoot well. Most would not do 1MOA without at least some basic mods, like glassbedding.
When they did, they were invariably (for me, at least) Savages.
Because of the early Savage triggers, I've learned how to work around triggers that vary greatly, and seldom even notice things like trigger pull weights these days.
One of my recurring nightmares involves being I the crosshairs and having a trigger that is so heavy I cannot get it to fire. That never happens to me in real life, and if it did I imagine I would finally actually notice the pull weight.
Testimonials like mine are no more than anecdotal. Change the player and the whole game starts anew.
Greg
Very, very few actually accomplish that, but when they do, it's a good chance they are the winner. Sometimes less will do.
All I ever ask of my handloads is 1 MOA; and if I get it, that means the rifle was doing its job all along, and for once in a long while, so was I.
I spent most of the first few years of my involvement here at The 'Hide working at making factory rifles shoot well. Most would not do 1MOA without at least some basic mods, like glassbedding.
When they did, they were invariably (for me, at least) Savages.
Because of the early Savage triggers, I've learned how to work around triggers that vary greatly, and seldom even notice things like trigger pull weights these days.
One of my recurring nightmares involves being I the crosshairs and having a trigger that is so heavy I cannot get it to fire. That never happens to me in real life, and if it did I imagine I would finally actually notice the pull weight.
Testimonials like mine are no more than anecdotal. Change the player and the whole game starts anew.
Greg
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Too bad you didn't get one of those .1" grouping factory Savages. That's a shame, because they are all over the place...
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Here's my reasoning why I choose Savage over Rem for my builds.
You can say what you want about asthetics, but there's no denying that the savage platform is more user friendly.
With three main tools, I can work my savage rifles. In the field too.
Viper barrel vise= $60
Barrel nut wrench= $25
Head space Gauge set =$60
No need to wait (add your "they said it would be ready by" story of wait time here) for a gunsmith to get around to your Rem 700 needs.
A lot of Quality aftermarket stock, barrel, trigger and other acces are readily available.
A lot of those acces are available in Left hand, which makes this southpaw happy.
Plus all the money saved working on them myself, is going to (hopefully) get me a Left hand DTA. If and when they make one. It's only been 7 years.
I like customs built by others, but I get a lot of satisfaction in being able to build an accurate rifle with my own two hands.
You can say what you want about asthetics, but there's no denying that the savage platform is more user friendly.
With three main tools, I can work my savage rifles. In the field too.
Viper barrel vise= $60
Barrel nut wrench= $25
Head space Gauge set =$60
No need to wait (add your "they said it would be ready by" story of wait time here) for a gunsmith to get around to your Rem 700 needs.
A lot of Quality aftermarket stock, barrel, trigger and other acces are readily available.
A lot of those acces are available in Left hand, which makes this southpaw happy.
Plus all the money saved working on them myself, is going to (hopefully) get me a Left hand DTA. If and when they make one. It's only been 7 years.
I like customs built by others, but I get a lot of satisfaction in being able to build an accurate rifle with my own two hands.
yes I agree with you, that guy is full of shit.
I would have told him, if I didn't see it, it didn't happen.
I measure my rifles based on how close together the holes are downrange. I own 3 Winchesters m-70, 2 Savages (m-12), and one Remington 700. If money were no object I'd build Winchesters.
Not surprising, the factory savage barrel is rough as a cob. I replaced it with a McGowen prefit in 260 and The groups were fantastic. The factory Savage stocks were designed by a blind lumberjack with a chainsaw. None of my rifles wear factory stocks.
OTOH, If you're looking for a kit gun that you can play with, The Savage is the ticket.
Not surprising, the factory savage barrel is rough as a cob. I replaced it with a McGowen prefit in 260 and The groups were fantastic. The factory Savage stocks were designed by a blind lumberjack with a chainsaw. None of my rifles wear factory stocks.
OTOH, If you're looking for a kit gun that you can play with, The Savage is the ticket.
What I rarely see people discuss is reliability and durability.
In the end, a 1 MOA that works every time is better than a 1/4 MOA gun that needs single-fed, babied, or that is just plain finicky.
It's gotta go boom every time. It's got to feed when I run the bolt.
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In the end, a 1 MOA that works every time is better than a 1/4 MOA gun that needs single-fed, babied, or that is just plain finicky.
It's gotta go boom every time. It's got to feed when I run the bolt.
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Yes.
My 223AI has some occasional feed issues that I'm pretty certain could be fixed by adjusting the mag release, but it hasn't been THAT big of a deal for me to mess with yet. Same rifle also had poor ejection (probably related to 223 in a long action) but an enhanced kit from SSS solved that.
My 10FP-based 260 has run flawlessly.
True, on the ejection side, I immediately change the extractor/ejector on the Savages with the Sharp Shooters Supply enhanced kit, whether it needs it or not, the kit cost $8, the rifle will spit the shells out like it came out of a M 16.
Not sure what all you're wanting to get out of the donor rifle, but I'm assuming it's just the action. You can buy a new Rem700 receiver/action at Brownell's right now for $449.
700 SHORT & LONG ACTION RECEIVERS | Brownells
Why can't I find that upgraded ejector kit from sharpshooters it doesn't seem to be on the inventory anymore.
I think you have call and order it. It's not on the website.
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Thanks MoBoost for the breakdown.
I've been guilty of giving Savage a hard time for their past "imperfections"
I've been guilty of giving Savage a hard time for their past "imperfections"
oops I hope I ordered the right one is it the one for the 300 blackout kit? I'm guessing it would be the same extractor pin spring for 308 right?
Yeah I am pretty sure, the kit for my 223 bolt and my 308 is the same, heck so was the kit for the 300 WM SSS has some great stuff but their web site is lacking. The fishnet bolt bodies are very nice, very. Anotrher email for them is Sara, she seems to handle this stuff. [email protected]
Ditto to that. My first 2 bolt rifle builds were on used Savages that I snagged on gunbroker for less than $250 each, for complete functioning rifles. Doing the work myself and not having to pay a gunsmith for his time was a big draw to someone making E5 pay at the time. I don't kid myself that I could have the accuracy and consistency of a custom gun like GAP or others with a homemade build, but one has proven to be a consistent .75MOA out to 600yds when I do my part.
I would love to drop $3k on a custom rifle, but putting one together myself was rewarding and saved soem cash. If I was shooting benchrest I wouldn't piece together my own gun, but for coyotes, hogs, deer, and paper then gun is more than accurate enough for my needs.
I think the draw with Savage is the ease of use for the user that wants to modify it. However, I always get a chuckle when someone buys a used Savage and gets rid of everything but the action to do a build- stock, barrel, trigger, etc.
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I'm starting to discover that most of the savage feeding problems are coming from people putting aftermarket parts on them like bottom metal.
Not my experience Pointman, everyone of my 4 Savages were weak out of the box. The first one drove me half crazy until I figured out the issue and found the SSS upgrade kit.
Yeah I noticed mine doesn't toss the brass like an Hk93, but it has never given me problems. I did order that kit, just because I would like the brass fly a little harder.
Any rifle can be made to be accurate, just depends on who is building it and also the one behind the trigger. Looks and cool factor arent always the answer to a reliable and accurate rifle IMO.
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