I'd be curious to know what all the blueprinted action entails. How much better on average is it over a standard action.
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Savage teams up with MDT
- Thread starter Eric32
- Start date
Direct from Savage
Factory-Blueprinted Actions - On select long-range and target rifles, Savage takes the extra step of individually truing and blueprinting its actions, much like a custom gunsmith would do. But we do it right in the factory before those rifles are even assembled.
wait for poi shift to respond. probably this evening
Ever since I heard that Savages CEO was buying the company from Vista I had a feeling that good things were to come. Savage now has leadership that has a much better understanding of what shooters want without the Vista board of directors second guessing them. It will be interesting to see how far Savage takes this.
You can adjust it down to about 13 1/4 ( I own two of them). I'm just guessing that 14" is mid adjustment.
That's strange because when I called MDT they said otherwise... But you have real world examples. I would have gone with mdt but didn't because of the LOP and went with MPA because they made me a custom LOP.
I went through the same deal when looking for new chassis. I ordered a XLR Envy, and a week later, a buddy let me try his MDT. Of course, then I ordered the two ACC ( I might have a problem ).
The only "downside" to the ACC is, you need at least 19" barrel, which is why I kept the XLR.
So what you are saying is I’m wrong but I’m right. ?
IDGAF how wrong I am as long as they keep up with new product offerings that people actually want.
From what they told me is that if its not listed as a blue printed and trued action its just assembled and sold. So if its blueprinted/trued it means they squared the critical surfaces of a bolt action rifle receiver prior to barreling. Just like gunsmiths would do to a Remington action. Do this puts everything in line so it increases accuracy.
At what point did you start having extraction issues? I have a 12 LRP that has been blueprinted and action slicked by a gunsmith. Bolt lift is extremely smooth and I've never had an extraction problem. I'm about 900 rounds into the rifle
Isn’t that what the toggle bolt head (via spring washer) is suppose to negate?
Just thinking out loud here...
Yes and no, the spring lets it float to get full lug engagement with the receiver but the grind ensures parallelism from that lug surface to the breech face of the bolt head.
I had a model 11 that I put in an XLR element chassis. Added a bolt lift kit, enhanced extractor kit, and Enhanced ejector spring. i probably had 750+ rounds on it.
It was serviceable at that point. But it was never as smooth as the Tikkas that I moved to. I then was fortunate enough to go to a PVA barreled ARC Nucleus. After I moved away from savage, I’ll never go back. They shoot accurately, but never as reliable as the others I’ve had.
this is my personal experience, sample size is low. I get it, but also consider how the resale market on savages are. Really really bad in my experience.
Then why does it matter if it’s parallel, if the bolt head toggles to ensures full lug engagement?
Really it’s too bad that Savage was run so poorly for so many years. When I saw the ultimatum actions the first thing I thought was that their design is EXACTLY what savage should have done. 3-lug floating bolt head design.... that would have welcomed savage into this era of modern bolt guns.
The lugs will float and give you full engagement with a receiver that’s not square, but at the same time it could cause the cartridge to be pushed to one side of the chamber.
Ideally we want want the bullet to be aligned with the bore when it leaves the case. Having all the receiver and bolt surfaces perpendicular or “trued” to the bore is to achieve bullet alignment.
Oh, I see. Fully engaged lugs and a square and true receiver face make up for a sloppy, shitty chamber....
Nope not at all. But there is clearance in ANY chamber. If the cartridge is being pushed off to one side, even if the chamber is concentric to the bore, this can effect accuracy. That’s the reason you want to true the receiver when installing a barrel. 2 birds, 1 stone.
ETA: a shitty chamber can be corrected at home with a barrel and action wrench. Trueing a receiver requires a lot more tooling and skills.
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So, gravity doesn’t affect that clearance in a chamber? I mean, the cartridge isn’t going to levitate in that clearance, so that it lines up with the bore axis.
BTW, “truing” a receiver doesn’t require any more tools or skills than it does to make a true and square action.
I like Savage rifles, but you really shouldn’t be so quick to drink the kool-aid...
Really? So you think the receiver squaring hand tools that are out there actually create trued receivers? There’s a reason gunsmiths invest in lathes, CNC lathes, and 5 axis machining centers to true up receivers.
I don’t drink anyone’s koolaid. Trueing a Remington is all but a given these days. How is trueing a savage a bad thing?
Because the design of the Savage negates the benefits of “truing”.
To “true” a receiver, you really need a lathe. Coincidentally, you need one of those to make a receiver. See my point yet?
BTW, CNC’s benefit is volume and repeatability; not accuracy per se.
I understand your point. I also understand manufacturing better than most. I started my profession in the Tool and Die trade in the early 1990’s. I currently get paid to maximize the efficiency and quality of CNC machining processes.
Floating bolt heads don’t “negate” the effects of out of square receivers. They MINIMIZE those effects. When processing the receiver to ensure its square you’re just a little better off.
Perhaps the better question is “Will anyone be able to shoot the difference in accuracy, of a “trued” Savage?”
Probably not. Again, my point about kool-aid. The difference is so minute, it is more hype, than anything.
JMTCW, but folks are trying to make a silk purse from a sow’s ear. There’s a reason many of us shoot AI’s (and other high end receivers). Savages are good rifles, but “truing” them is just pointless, unless they’re being “trued” to common bf to receiver face dimension for shouldered pre-fit barrel availability. And in that case I’d just get a Bighorn.
But, to each their own...
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I doubt anyone will shoot the difference.
If I ever decide to drop $2k for a savage the “blueprinted” receiver might help justify the cost. As well as it having a good chassis.
I've always thought the Bighorn actions (both the TL3 & Origin) are pretty close to a perfected, modern take on the Savage 10/110 action.
I’m happy they’re coming out with this stuff.
My first decent rifle was a savage but I’ve since moved on.
Mine had a pretty decent trigger and bolt lift but ejection was always weak and extraction was definitely getting worse after my first barrel swap.
My first decent rifle was a savage but I’ve since moved on.
Mine had a pretty decent trigger and bolt lift but ejection was always weak and extraction was definitely getting worse after my first barrel swap.
That’s a really good comparison too.
I was thinking ultimatum because they have the same extraction and ejection systems. The bighorn has the Springfield ejector system (which is a much MUCH better system then the savage/ultimatum system)
but the point stands, savage needed to improve there actions years ago and never did.
Caliber is listed as "223 REM". I wonder if that's right. I would think a 223 Wylde would make more sense.
The guns hammer, the throat is just about blown out in mine and I still confirmed zero with a .4 group shooting factory ammo.
To clarify, the ACC's do not start at 14" LOP. Very early models started at 13.7" or so, but we quickly reduced that down. I am almost certain that a lot of the "longer" butt stocks are now done and all current inventory is shorter. Our LOP range on all MDT ACC's and Savage Precision Elites will be from roughly 13.375" to 14.375".
It’s crazy that we are talking about a .325” difference in the shortest LOP between the early ACCs and the current ones. Just shows how far we have come with the level of adjustability from only using spacers or having a custom stock built to get to the ideal LOP.
Because it's a marketing vs. purchase thing. The old mindset of the slowest twist possible still exists. Savage put out their 12 series in 1-7" twist, and it didn't sell as well. Too many gun-counter "specialists" who have no fucking idea what they are saying are still going back to 1960's thinking and telling customers that for more accuracy, you need a slower twist. They have no idea that with the better bullets of today, you can shoot a lighter bullet with nearly as much accuracy as in the past with a tighter twist barrel.
Close to about 40 years ago now, J4 came up with a better way to make bullets. With tolerances in the low ten thousandths. Before that, and until everybody adopted the newer better tolerances, 1-2 thousandths was considered pretty good. It took slower twists to make those more accurate. But, that is the kind of thinking that still prevails.
Yes, I agree, it would be nice if they pushed a tighter twist. If you think about it though, Remington with their famous 700 never moved off the 1-12" twist for twenty years after 1-9" were coming out in other competitors models. So, Savage staying at 1-9" isn't all that great, but it isn't all that bad, either. If you look around you can find 1-7" twist barreled used rifles. You can also buy a Shilen or Criterion from Northern Shooter Supply with a tighter twist.
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Good, that is what it should be. Now, if the rifle were set up to handle a longer than 2.260" COAL.
Meaning: take the magazine block out!?
They have two of their Chassis's that take the Savage LA. I talked to them as well and you just need to let them know the Mag size when ordering. This is what they sent me:
- If your action is a Centerfeed design such as a 110BA or 111 that comes with a factory detachable box magazine with a 3.850 desired magazine length, you will need to perform a machining operation on the feed ramp to allow the use of these long magazine bodies. If your desired magazine length is 3.715″, no modifications will be required. Simply specify on the order form the length of magazine that you want to use in this chassis. Your options are 3.715, 3.775 and 3.85. Both the 3.775 and 3.850 magazine lengths will require modifications to your actions feed ramp to allow the rounds to feed properly.
- If your action is a Staggered Feed with an internal magazine, factory bottom metal and no detachable magazine, you can simply drop your barreled action into our chassis, with no modifications required to the actions feed ramp, as long as you stay with the 3.715 magazine length. If you plan on using the 3.775 or 3.850 magazine length, let us know at the time of order, and you will need to modify the actions feed ramp to allow proper clearance of the round during feeding.
