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savagebrotherX
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anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250 savage
09/18/2016
(1 vote)
well i did and have. i built a rifle on a savage action of course and here is what i came up with.
as many of you know the 250 savage case was used to make the very popular 6.5 creedmoor, this started me thinking about the parent case and one thing lead to another and i bought a savage 1920 bolt-action to hunt with so i started looking for components and loads and noticed the loads in the manuals were way outdated. mmm so i went to one of my favorite sites "reloaders nest" and there has been some stirrings of using some modern powders in the 250 savage. turns out its a very efficient case. look up some of the loads that people have come up with, i think you'll be surprised at the 250 savage.
now as a side to all this, i found that hornady of all companies was making new 250 savage cases-YEAH, so i bought5 200 cases. upon calling hornady the sales staff couldn't tell me why all of a sudden they were making this brass when everybody else was heading the other way and discontinuing it. i quickly asked if they were going to make some a-max's in this caliber and she started to say something then caught herself and said - "well R&D does not tell us w2hat the3y are up to". well this definitely perked up my interest so ill pursue this later, as of now i'm stuck with sierra 100gr BTHP match bullets and it looks like berger makes a 110 or 115 VLD hunting bullet. may have to complain and whine to get some others to make some match bullets too.
this looks very promising, especially since it is with a cartridge that's been around since 1915!!!!
P.S. the hornady brass is brand new so i expect this load will tighten even more with neck sized cases.
i went up to 38 grains of varget but this seems to be max in this rifle, primers were almost flattened and cases were a little sticky coming out and accuracy waqs not there.
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Steelhead43X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/18/2016
Always liked that cartridge.
It needed a great high BC bullet.
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/18/2016
Yes I agree steelhead43, when you get a chance go to reloaders nest dot com
I guy has a load of 39 grs varget. And 110 gr Nosler 24" barrel he says he's getting over 3300FPS!!! Man that's getting in to 257 weather by's zone
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/19/2016 Last edited 09/19/2016 by savagebrother
better pick of the rifle i put together
savage 10 stagger feed action
E.R. Shaw barrel (250 savage, 1:10 twist, 26"
Choat tactical stock
">i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/savagebrother/SAV%2010-250%20SAVAGE_zpsazdbjity.jpg" title="i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/savagebrother/SAV%2010-250%20SAVAGE_zpsazdbjity.jpg">i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/savagebrother/SAV%2010-250%20SAVAGE_zpsazdbjity.jpg"/>
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/19/2016
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/20/2016
Wow can't believe nobody has any interest here. Wouldn't it be great to have another factory round that obviously can shoot sub- MOA and you can drop by the gun store on your way home from work and shoot competitively on the weekend??? Just like the 6.5 creedmoor, but ssshhh the 250 sav has less recoil!!! And there are already 1000's of hunting stories of this 101 year old cartridges ability to take game way bigger than it should have.
C'mon guys have some fun that's what this is all about!!
Oh didn't get my crony set up as quick as I needed to and the sun was going down fast but I will tell you this, the shots that came over good were well over 3,000 FPS with no pressure signs at all, not even a sticky bolt lift. I'm excited!!!
Working with something nobody else is or has. Man if I can get hornady to get me some AMAX's say 115gr or hey 117gr?? I smell magic!!!
SB
flatland1X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/20/2016
I built myself & a customer rifles in 250 AI several years ago. Had read that the 250 was one of PO Ackley's favorite cartridges to perform his 'improved magic' on, and kind of liked the idea myself. Though they both turned out to be nicely accurate, I never got close to the velocities listed in Sierra's 5th Edition loading manual. Whatever - the lack of bullets with sufficiently high BCs to make the 250 competitive with the many good 6mm cartridges - and 6.5mm ones with even higher BC bullets available - kinda aces any of the 25 cal cartridges out of the game when it comes to LR precision shooting. Which is fine, because the 250 & 250AI are really nice cartridges for hunting deer & antelope.
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016
(1 vote)
you know i started shooting the 6.5X55 swedish mauser in 1983. i talked about it till i was blue in the face. it was accurate and it took deer down with ease and had so much less recoil than the 308 or 30'06. then during the 80's thru early 2000's i shot service rifle high power.
around 1990 when the AR-15A2's became available i got the third ever manufactured barrel free float tube from krieger barrels, also a match trigger, sights the works. the other older shooters and there springfield M1A's laughed and called it the fusil mouse gun. but after about 4 years it was hard to find an M1 or M1A on the firing line. now back to the 6.5X55 com forward to i think it was 1998 that the 260 Remington came out, problem was it was a hunting round and wasn't designed to shoot the long 140 grain bullets like the 6.5X55 but it was here so everyone jumped on the band wagon but they did something that was necessary they had the throats deepened so they could seat those long 140 gr bullets so they didn't take up precious powder space. oops now the 260 Remington became a long action cartridge. so now were at 2007, the 6.5 creedmoor is released, it corrected the problem of the bullet seating, but everyone said it will never catch on we already have the 260!!! forward to 2016, how many rifles are being built in 6.5 creedmoor??? how many in 260 Remington?? catch my drift??
ackley didn't have powders that were even close to what we have.
bullets there were no 6.5 bullets 30 years ago!! didnt stop me from shooting my 6.5X55. oh by the way flatland1, i dont think you'll find varget in any of your reloading manuals for 250 savage or reloader 17.
i been past 3400 FPS with 100 grain sierra match bullets, if you want to go fast you gotta experiment.
SB
spife7980X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016 Last edited 09/21/2016 by spife7980
I agree with the speculation that it could be modernized into something respectable (just like the 270) with some more advanced bullet technology but as it currently stands its essentially dead. I saw a ruger no 1 in mannlicher that was absolutely gorgeous but it was in 250 sav and there were zero factory ammo offerings that I could find that had been in recent production. Its hand loads only which isnt a problem for me but thats just another example of the steep hill there is to climb in order for this cartridge to have a resurgence. Why do 250 when you can get a 243 or 260/6.5cm and be leagues ahead in terms of availability of basically every component.
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016
yes your right, but this was what really got me clicking on the 250 savage, first there are plenty of .257 bullets for hunting, from 70grs all the way to 120grs. with everyone saying now its better to shoot a round that recoils less therefore you'll be more accurate. winchester and remington both have 100gr factory loaded ammo that they run once a year, but i can tell you it goes fast.
the new part of this story is hornady is making brand new brass, i of course bought 200 rounds of it, it is good stuff. it made me wonder if they were going to do a superformance load for it??? couldnt think of any other reason they would start making brass. i'll try and keep a running record of with the 250 savage as it happens.
SB
supercorndogsX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016
Damn, I bet if it was necked down to 22 cal it would take off. LOL
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016 Last edited 09/21/2016 by savagebrother
Damn supercorndogs I think Remington beat you to it!!! LOL!!!
No I'm going to stick with 257 caliber, the case at this caliber is very efficient like the 6.5 creedmoor. What started this was I wanted to hunt with the 250 savage and earlier this year lucked out and picked up a savage model 1920 light weight bolt-action sporter. So I collected some brass and started working on some loads. Well for quite a few years I go look at loads on "reloaders nest dot com low and behold there were quite a few loads I had never seen before. One was 75gr VMAX from hornady over 42grs varget!!! The guy who came up with this load said"wow somebody missed The boat with varget and this cartridge"
Well that's a very hot load or so I thought. Well was I wrong, yes you can quote me "I was wrong" LOL, I worked up to that load with my 1926 bolt-action!!!
Velocity??? 3478 FPS avg. SD was an amazing 14 FPS!!! From a 22" barrel too.
There are no safe coyotes from 0 to 400 yards safe from my 250 savage.
Accuracy was .75" and the barrel twist is 1:14, I think this helped to achieve this velocity with no pressure signs.
Can you tell I'm having fun here???? I AM!!!
SB
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016
Some more pics of the savage 1920, built in 1926.
These are the gunbroker picks, but they show the action very good.
Hah a short action bolt gun before anyone new what one was, score another first for savage!!
SB
ZG47AX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/24/2016
Yeah, the first one had the best action and the worst stock. Savage improved the stocks and degraded the action!
sandwarriorX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016
I had one when it was the .250-3000 in a 1899 Savage. It was a first year production takedown with perch-belly stock. It had been drilled and tapped for a Pachmyr tip-off scope mount. I found it quite useful as the Marbles flip-up rear sight was quite accurate. Flip the scope on and it would hold 1.5 moa. That's pretty good for a 1915 rifle. The tip-off was nice as I had two old Weavers go down in it. I put a Unertl 4X Hawk in there and the groups got better.
Funny thing was when I put it up for sale, the collectors that called on it and kept saying "the stupid idiot that ruined it by tapping it" should have been shot. I always responded that he did it in the 1930's/'40;s. Even as late as the '60's this was preferable to no scope. So, that's the way it is. They'd always try to lowball me on it, like they would take better care of it. Whatever!
As to the round itself, it's quite a snappy little round. In the 1920's there was a study done as to which cartridge could/should replace the 30-06. The winner was the .250 Savage. It was lighter and packed enough punch at extended ranges to warrant replacing the 30-06. Douglas McArthur put a stop to that kind of thinking. He was set on the 30-06 period.
ICU22250X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016
Maybe Hornady is on the verge of a better BC bullet design in .25 caliber, maybe this is why the new brass for the 250... Who knows, everyone wants to be the inventor of the next best thing... Imagine better BC bullets in the 25-06!!!
grossIIX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016 Last edited 09/25/2016 by grossII
When the was a shortage of 6xc brass I would use the 250 savage brass.Just load and pull the trigger . Shot whole FClass matches fire forming. 250 savage is awesome round !!!
TorF1X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016 Last edited 09/25/2016 by TorF1
If the 250 Savage had been released with a 130gr bullet and 1-8" twist 100 years ago there would be no 308Win or 223Rem.. Just think of a M14, G3 or FAL with a nice curved 30 round mag
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016
Wow now this is the chatter I was looking for!!! Yes yes and yes!!!!
Yorf1 with a Bullet that would go thru most things. I talked to one of hornady's
Tech guys and he didn't know why they started to make 250 savage brass???
I was thinking more along the lines of them making a superformance load like with the 300 savage, which I have a savage 99 in that caliber which I would put against any 308 to hunt with. But you know I don't know why no one thought why not see how far a 250 savage would go. I can tell you at this caliber and this case it is extremely efficient. I'm hoping hornady will call me to say hey we got some 110 or 115 grain AMAX's for you to try. Sierra actually has 2 100gr match Bullets ones a BTHP I think they have had for a while and the other is a 100gr matchking (Litz). I'm waiting on some reloaders 17 to get here and I'll run some loads with it. The big thing is I got to get these loads chrono'd to see how fast things are going. I also want to try some Berger 115gr match Hunter Bullets
Just to get some numbers in that bullet weight.
SB
sandwarriorX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016
Savagebrother,
What is the twist in your melde 1920?
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016
Wow sandwarrior it's an ever so tight 1:14 that's what savage was using until WWII when they went to the 1:10. If your looking for a good deer bullet sierra's
90gr BTHP gameking is your bullet. You can get good velocity even from your "99" but it literally removes a deer's heart and lungs and of course they are accurate. I'm working on a varget load for it too.
SB
MarinePMIX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/26/2016
Kind of funny no one has mentioned the .257 Roberts...yet another quarter bore that has been a hunting mainstay for quite some time now...
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/26/2016
marinePMI your right, i think the reason i looked toward the 250 savage is because 257 roberts is a long action cartridge. not that there is anything wrong with a long action. i will say one thing that we are so scared of litigation in this country that especially in the firearms industry
that there is a fear of updating old cartridges for fear of some idiot blowing up an old gun. i wish that is one thing we could be like Europe, "oh you didn't read the directions" well that's your fault get the hell outa my court!!!
SB
sandwarriorX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/26/2016 Last edited 09/26/2016 by sandwarrior
savagebrother,
With your 1-14" twist, you won't be able to stablize the heavies for .257 Cal.
MarinePMI, I know we didn't mention the .257 Roberts, but as savagebrother said, we're directing this question more towards the short action. So it also nulls discussion and the 25-06 and .257 WBY. Great rounds both as well as the Roberts!
In that regard we've never talked about modified versions of the .250 Sav, the .250/.300 (Sav) or the .250 AI. I personally prefer the .250/.300. It has the 30 deg. shoulder and still fit better in the short action with bullets seated long. The 40 deg. shoulder IMO is still pretty edgy when you get too close to the pressure ceiling. Every one I've tried goes along great, great, great then BOOM! you start blowing primers like no yesterday. The 40 degree shoulder acts like too much of a pressure dam. When pressure increases, there isn't enough flow to allow pressure to dissipate.
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/26/2016
Yes that is exactly what can happen with sharp shoulder angles, but you get extremely stable pressures before you get there. Now if your hornady you get slow powders to optimum pressures by using a duplex load!! What!!! Yep that's how superformance works. How do I know??? Well you guys remember savage came out with a smokeless muzzleloader right?? Well we learned a lot about pressure curves and powder burn rates and what's actually happening with internal ballistics. Our problem was we didn't have the grip of the brass case on the bullet or the graving of the bullet into the rifling, not to mention the flame path was .75"-1" in length with a 209 shotgun primer to set things off.
We were using loads from cartridge load manuals to get things going. Well that didn't work at first. We had to use fast powders to get any accuracy. 5744 became a staple powder for hunting with 300gr Bullets in sabots.
We found that when we used book powders for 45/70 accuracy was more of a pattern than group. Mmmmm well some of us started adding more powder
Some actually payed the money and bought strain gages and pressure transducer and started looking at what was actually going on. Optimum pressure, keep that in mind as I write, in slower powders you have to acheive optimum pressure or things go south fast. Well between us adding powder and running pressure barrels it became apparent that adding powder was the fix or part of the fix. Some of us were doing this with .50 cal using a .45 cal bullet in a sabot and some using a .45 cal using a .40 cal in a sabot. Well by going over book loads anywhere from 10-25grs above we hit some really sweet spots.
One I hunted with for over ten years-hornady .40 cal 200 gr SST in sabot over
73 grs Of h322 yeilding 2900 FPS at 10' from the muzzle. Took whitetails from 60-235 yards with that load. Oh .75" at 100 yards all day long. Getting away from my story, the whole basis for the smokeless muzzleloader was reduced recoil not speed in the beginning. Well that load above in my custom ruger no. 1
Was up around 30'06 level so some of the guys wanted the velocity and accuracy but not the heavy recoil. With the data from the pressure readings we knew the big problem was and here is that term again, optimum pressure wasn't being achieved. Well don't remember who tried it first, but instead of 55-75grs of straight powder hey ran 10-15 grains of fast powder and 40-55 grs load manual powder.......magic happened, velocity and accuracy happened time after time, lot of guys using the smokeless muzzleloaders use one of these duplex loads to hunt with for many years. My best friend rick in Arkansas did such advanced work in all this it bled over into cartridges of course. Hornady being the biggest supplier of bullets that could go that fast and get the job done we were in constant contact with them, so they knew what we were doing and became interested. Now today, big problem with slow powders in medium cases??? That term again "optimum pressure" the bullet gets down the barrel before it reaches it. Well you can do the same or close to it by sharpening the shoulder,nwhich causes pressure to build there thus getting the powder to "optimum pressure" giving good velocity but more importantly great accuracy!!
Bow how do we get older cartridges to gain velocity without blowing them up???? Duplex load, add just a little fast powder to some slow powder and viola,
100-200FPS gain without a pressure spike that wrecks an older rifle. The fast powder gets the "optimum pressure in a shorter time making it a viable powder in a smaller case and shorter barrel.
Yes there are several wildcats in 257 cal but what is one of the things you here about the 6.5 CM??? If you don't have time to reload thru the week you can stop by the gun store and buy all the loaded Ammo you need to shoot in the match this weekend. That's why I'm sticking with the 250 savage, if things takeoff it is an already established cartridge and I'm hoping that what happened with the 6.5 CM happens with the 250 savage. Just like hornady making brass the hard parts already done, just need some good high BC match bullets and a little more work with some powders at the range.
SB
P.S. Sorry I got a little windy there. LOL
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
10/02/2016
Well made a trip down to CABELAS Friday to get some bullets and powder.
Well I got some bullets - Berger 115gr match hunters, but they didn't have any reloaders 17. So I'm going to do some reloading and get some chronograph readings and see where things are at.
SB
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
10/09/2016 Last edited 10/09/2016 by savagebrother
I went to the range today to get some chrono readings for the 100gr Sierra matchking 36.5grs varget which is really shooting good. I set up at the 200 yard range because it's easier to set up the chronograph on it. Well try as I might I couldn't get my chronograph to read!!!! I guess I need to buy a new one this ones 20 years old. Now for the good part my buddy I was shooting with had come over and was asking what was up and I told him about my chrono problems and he was saying that's tuff but then he looked thru the spotting scope and said wow have you looked at the group you just shot?? I said no I was messing with the chrono and didn't really pay any attention to the group. Well I'll let you guys look at it-10 shots 200 yards. Oh I did forget one thing I used just plain old CCI 200 primers
SB
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
10/19/2016
Hey guys sorry for the wait!! My 20+ year old chronograph gave up the ghost and quit working so I ordered a magnetospeed chronograph
so I'll try and get some numbers for my load by this weekend
sB
bishop112X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
10/20/2016
great thread! very interesting for a newbie like me.
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
10/20/2016
glad your having a good time reading bishop112 the threads, its fun to revisit some old cartridges that have never been used with our new powders.
SB
savagebrotherX
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anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250 savage
09/18/2016
(1 vote)
well i did and have. i built a rifle on a savage action of course and here is what i came up with.
as many of you know the 250 savage case was used to make the very popular 6.5 creedmoor, this started me thinking about the parent case and one thing lead to another and i bought a savage 1920 bolt-action to hunt with so i started looking for components and loads and noticed the loads in the manuals were way outdated. mmm so i went to one of my favorite sites "reloaders nest" and there has been some stirrings of using some modern powders in the 250 savage. turns out its a very efficient case. look up some of the loads that people have come up with, i think you'll be surprised at the 250 savage.
now as a side to all this, i found that hornady of all companies was making new 250 savage cases-YEAH, so i bought5 200 cases. upon calling hornady the sales staff couldn't tell me why all of a sudden they were making this brass when everybody else was heading the other way and discontinuing it. i quickly asked if they were going to make some a-max's in this caliber and she started to say something then caught herself and said - "well R&D does not tell us w2hat the3y are up to". well this definitely perked up my interest so ill pursue this later, as of now i'm stuck with sierra 100gr BTHP match bullets and it looks like berger makes a 110 or 115 VLD hunting bullet. may have to complain and whine to get some others to make some match bullets too.
this looks very promising, especially since it is with a cartridge that's been around since 1915!!!!
P.S. the hornady brass is brand new so i expect this load will tighten even more with neck sized cases.
i went up to 38 grains of varget but this seems to be max in this rifle, primers were almost flattened and cases were a little sticky coming out and accuracy waqs not there.
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Steelhead43X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/18/2016
Always liked that cartridge.
It needed a great high BC bullet.
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/18/2016
Yes I agree steelhead43, when you get a chance go to reloaders nest dot com
I guy has a load of 39 grs varget. And 110 gr Nosler 24" barrel he says he's getting over 3300FPS!!! Man that's getting in to 257 weather by's zone
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/19/2016 Last edited 09/19/2016 by savagebrother
better pick of the rifle i put together
savage 10 stagger feed action
E.R. Shaw barrel (250 savage, 1:10 twist, 26"
Choat tactical stock
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/19/2016
savagebrother wrote: better pick of the rifle i put together
savage 10 stagger feed action
E.R. Shaw barrel (250 savage, 1:10 twist, 26"
Choat tactical stock
savage 10 stagger feed action
E.R. Shaw barrel (250 savage, 1:10 twist, 26"
Choat tactical stock
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/20/2016
Wow can't believe nobody has any interest here. Wouldn't it be great to have another factory round that obviously can shoot sub- MOA and you can drop by the gun store on your way home from work and shoot competitively on the weekend??? Just like the 6.5 creedmoor, but ssshhh the 250 sav has less recoil!!! And there are already 1000's of hunting stories of this 101 year old cartridges ability to take game way bigger than it should have.
C'mon guys have some fun that's what this is all about!!
Oh didn't get my crony set up as quick as I needed to and the sun was going down fast but I will tell you this, the shots that came over good were well over 3,000 FPS with no pressure signs at all, not even a sticky bolt lift. I'm excited!!!
Working with something nobody else is or has. Man if I can get hornady to get me some AMAX's say 115gr or hey 117gr?? I smell magic!!!
SB
flatland1X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/20/2016
I built myself & a customer rifles in 250 AI several years ago. Had read that the 250 was one of PO Ackley's favorite cartridges to perform his 'improved magic' on, and kind of liked the idea myself. Though they both turned out to be nicely accurate, I never got close to the velocities listed in Sierra's 5th Edition loading manual. Whatever - the lack of bullets with sufficiently high BCs to make the 250 competitive with the many good 6mm cartridges - and 6.5mm ones with even higher BC bullets available - kinda aces any of the 25 cal cartridges out of the game when it comes to LR precision shooting. Which is fine, because the 250 & 250AI are really nice cartridges for hunting deer & antelope.
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016
(1 vote)
you know i started shooting the 6.5X55 swedish mauser in 1983. i talked about it till i was blue in the face. it was accurate and it took deer down with ease and had so much less recoil than the 308 or 30'06. then during the 80's thru early 2000's i shot service rifle high power.
around 1990 when the AR-15A2's became available i got the third ever manufactured barrel free float tube from krieger barrels, also a match trigger, sights the works. the other older shooters and there springfield M1A's laughed and called it the fusil mouse gun. but after about 4 years it was hard to find an M1 or M1A on the firing line. now back to the 6.5X55 com forward to i think it was 1998 that the 260 Remington came out, problem was it was a hunting round and wasn't designed to shoot the long 140 grain bullets like the 6.5X55 but it was here so everyone jumped on the band wagon but they did something that was necessary they had the throats deepened so they could seat those long 140 gr bullets so they didn't take up precious powder space. oops now the 260 Remington became a long action cartridge. so now were at 2007, the 6.5 creedmoor is released, it corrected the problem of the bullet seating, but everyone said it will never catch on we already have the 260!!! forward to 2016, how many rifles are being built in 6.5 creedmoor??? how many in 260 Remington?? catch my drift??
ackley didn't have powders that were even close to what we have.
bullets there were no 6.5 bullets 30 years ago!! didnt stop me from shooting my 6.5X55. oh by the way flatland1, i dont think you'll find varget in any of your reloading manuals for 250 savage or reloader 17.
i been past 3400 FPS with 100 grain sierra match bullets, if you want to go fast you gotta experiment.
SB
spife7980X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016 Last edited 09/21/2016 by spife7980
I agree with the speculation that it could be modernized into something respectable (just like the 270) with some more advanced bullet technology but as it currently stands its essentially dead. I saw a ruger no 1 in mannlicher that was absolutely gorgeous but it was in 250 sav and there were zero factory ammo offerings that I could find that had been in recent production. Its hand loads only which isnt a problem for me but thats just another example of the steep hill there is to climb in order for this cartridge to have a resurgence. Why do 250 when you can get a 243 or 260/6.5cm and be leagues ahead in terms of availability of basically every component.
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016
yes your right, but this was what really got me clicking on the 250 savage, first there are plenty of .257 bullets for hunting, from 70grs all the way to 120grs. with everyone saying now its better to shoot a round that recoils less therefore you'll be more accurate. winchester and remington both have 100gr factory loaded ammo that they run once a year, but i can tell you it goes fast.
the new part of this story is hornady is making brand new brass, i of course bought 200 rounds of it, it is good stuff. it made me wonder if they were going to do a superformance load for it??? couldnt think of any other reason they would start making brass. i'll try and keep a running record of with the 250 savage as it happens.
SB
supercorndogsX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016
Damn, I bet if it was necked down to 22 cal it would take off. LOL
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016 Last edited 09/21/2016 by savagebrother
Damn supercorndogs I think Remington beat you to it!!! LOL!!!
No I'm going to stick with 257 caliber, the case at this caliber is very efficient like the 6.5 creedmoor. What started this was I wanted to hunt with the 250 savage and earlier this year lucked out and picked up a savage model 1920 light weight bolt-action sporter. So I collected some brass and started working on some loads. Well for quite a few years I go look at loads on "reloaders nest dot com low and behold there were quite a few loads I had never seen before. One was 75gr VMAX from hornady over 42grs varget!!! The guy who came up with this load said"wow somebody missed The boat with varget and this cartridge"
Well that's a very hot load or so I thought. Well was I wrong, yes you can quote me "I was wrong" LOL, I worked up to that load with my 1926 bolt-action!!!
Velocity??? 3478 FPS avg. SD was an amazing 14 FPS!!! From a 22" barrel too.
There are no safe coyotes from 0 to 400 yards safe from my 250 savage.
Accuracy was .75" and the barrel twist is 1:14, I think this helped to achieve this velocity with no pressure signs.
Can you tell I'm having fun here???? I AM!!!
SB
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/21/2016
Some more pics of the savage 1920, built in 1926.
These are the gunbroker picks, but they show the action very good.
Hah a short action bolt gun before anyone new what one was, score another first for savage!!
SB
ZG47AX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/24/2016
Yeah, the first one had the best action and the worst stock. Savage improved the stocks and degraded the action!
sandwarriorX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016
I had one when it was the .250-3000 in a 1899 Savage. It was a first year production takedown with perch-belly stock. It had been drilled and tapped for a Pachmyr tip-off scope mount. I found it quite useful as the Marbles flip-up rear sight was quite accurate. Flip the scope on and it would hold 1.5 moa. That's pretty good for a 1915 rifle. The tip-off was nice as I had two old Weavers go down in it. I put a Unertl 4X Hawk in there and the groups got better.
Funny thing was when I put it up for sale, the collectors that called on it and kept saying "the stupid idiot that ruined it by tapping it" should have been shot. I always responded that he did it in the 1930's/'40;s. Even as late as the '60's this was preferable to no scope. So, that's the way it is. They'd always try to lowball me on it, like they would take better care of it. Whatever!
As to the round itself, it's quite a snappy little round. In the 1920's there was a study done as to which cartridge could/should replace the 30-06. The winner was the .250 Savage. It was lighter and packed enough punch at extended ranges to warrant replacing the 30-06. Douglas McArthur put a stop to that kind of thinking. He was set on the 30-06 period.
ICU22250X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016
Maybe Hornady is on the verge of a better BC bullet design in .25 caliber, maybe this is why the new brass for the 250... Who knows, everyone wants to be the inventor of the next best thing... Imagine better BC bullets in the 25-06!!!
grossIIX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016 Last edited 09/25/2016 by grossII
When the was a shortage of 6xc brass I would use the 250 savage brass.Just load and pull the trigger . Shot whole FClass matches fire forming. 250 savage is awesome round !!!
TorF1X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016 Last edited 09/25/2016 by TorF1
If the 250 Savage had been released with a 130gr bullet and 1-8" twist 100 years ago there would be no 308Win or 223Rem.. Just think of a M14, G3 or FAL with a nice curved 30 round mag
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016
Wow now this is the chatter I was looking for!!! Yes yes and yes!!!!
Yorf1 with a Bullet that would go thru most things. I talked to one of hornady's
Tech guys and he didn't know why they started to make 250 savage brass???
I was thinking more along the lines of them making a superformance load like with the 300 savage, which I have a savage 99 in that caliber which I would put against any 308 to hunt with. But you know I don't know why no one thought why not see how far a 250 savage would go. I can tell you at this caliber and this case it is extremely efficient. I'm hoping hornady will call me to say hey we got some 110 or 115 grain AMAX's for you to try. Sierra actually has 2 100gr match Bullets ones a BTHP I think they have had for a while and the other is a 100gr matchking (Litz). I'm waiting on some reloaders 17 to get here and I'll run some loads with it. The big thing is I got to get these loads chrono'd to see how fast things are going. I also want to try some Berger 115gr match Hunter Bullets
Just to get some numbers in that bullet weight.
SB
sandwarriorX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016
Savagebrother,
What is the twist in your melde 1920?
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/25/2016
Wow sandwarrior it's an ever so tight 1:14 that's what savage was using until WWII when they went to the 1:10. If your looking for a good deer bullet sierra's
90gr BTHP gameking is your bullet. You can get good velocity even from your "99" but it literally removes a deer's heart and lungs and of course they are accurate. I'm working on a varget load for it too.
SB
MarinePMIX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/26/2016
Kind of funny no one has mentioned the .257 Roberts...yet another quarter bore that has been a hunting mainstay for quite some time now...
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/26/2016
marinePMI your right, i think the reason i looked toward the 250 savage is because 257 roberts is a long action cartridge. not that there is anything wrong with a long action. i will say one thing that we are so scared of litigation in this country that especially in the firearms industry
that there is a fear of updating old cartridges for fear of some idiot blowing up an old gun. i wish that is one thing we could be like Europe, "oh you didn't read the directions" well that's your fault get the hell outa my court!!!
SB
sandwarriorX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/26/2016 Last edited 09/26/2016 by sandwarrior
savagebrother,
With your 1-14" twist, you won't be able to stablize the heavies for .257 Cal.
MarinePMI, I know we didn't mention the .257 Roberts, but as savagebrother said, we're directing this question more towards the short action. So it also nulls discussion and the 25-06 and .257 WBY. Great rounds both as well as the Roberts!
In that regard we've never talked about modified versions of the .250 Sav, the .250/.300 (Sav) or the .250 AI. I personally prefer the .250/.300. It has the 30 deg. shoulder and still fit better in the short action with bullets seated long. The 40 deg. shoulder IMO is still pretty edgy when you get too close to the pressure ceiling. Every one I've tried goes along great, great, great then BOOM! you start blowing primers like no yesterday. The 40 degree shoulder acts like too much of a pressure dam. When pressure increases, there isn't enough flow to allow pressure to dissipate.
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
09/26/2016
Yes that is exactly what can happen with sharp shoulder angles, but you get extremely stable pressures before you get there. Now if your hornady you get slow powders to optimum pressures by using a duplex load!! What!!! Yep that's how superformance works. How do I know??? Well you guys remember savage came out with a smokeless muzzleloader right?? Well we learned a lot about pressure curves and powder burn rates and what's actually happening with internal ballistics. Our problem was we didn't have the grip of the brass case on the bullet or the graving of the bullet into the rifling, not to mention the flame path was .75"-1" in length with a 209 shotgun primer to set things off.
We were using loads from cartridge load manuals to get things going. Well that didn't work at first. We had to use fast powders to get any accuracy. 5744 became a staple powder for hunting with 300gr Bullets in sabots.
We found that when we used book powders for 45/70 accuracy was more of a pattern than group. Mmmmm well some of us started adding more powder
Some actually payed the money and bought strain gages and pressure transducer and started looking at what was actually going on. Optimum pressure, keep that in mind as I write, in slower powders you have to acheive optimum pressure or things go south fast. Well between us adding powder and running pressure barrels it became apparent that adding powder was the fix or part of the fix. Some of us were doing this with .50 cal using a .45 cal bullet in a sabot and some using a .45 cal using a .40 cal in a sabot. Well by going over book loads anywhere from 10-25grs above we hit some really sweet spots.
One I hunted with for over ten years-hornady .40 cal 200 gr SST in sabot over
73 grs Of h322 yeilding 2900 FPS at 10' from the muzzle. Took whitetails from 60-235 yards with that load. Oh .75" at 100 yards all day long. Getting away from my story, the whole basis for the smokeless muzzleloader was reduced recoil not speed in the beginning. Well that load above in my custom ruger no. 1
Was up around 30'06 level so some of the guys wanted the velocity and accuracy but not the heavy recoil. With the data from the pressure readings we knew the big problem was and here is that term again, optimum pressure wasn't being achieved. Well don't remember who tried it first, but instead of 55-75grs of straight powder hey ran 10-15 grains of fast powder and 40-55 grs load manual powder.......magic happened, velocity and accuracy happened time after time, lot of guys using the smokeless muzzleloaders use one of these duplex loads to hunt with for many years. My best friend rick in Arkansas did such advanced work in all this it bled over into cartridges of course. Hornady being the biggest supplier of bullets that could go that fast and get the job done we were in constant contact with them, so they knew what we were doing and became interested. Now today, big problem with slow powders in medium cases??? That term again "optimum pressure" the bullet gets down the barrel before it reaches it. Well you can do the same or close to it by sharpening the shoulder,nwhich causes pressure to build there thus getting the powder to "optimum pressure" giving good velocity but more importantly great accuracy!!
Bow how do we get older cartridges to gain velocity without blowing them up???? Duplex load, add just a little fast powder to some slow powder and viola,
100-200FPS gain without a pressure spike that wrecks an older rifle. The fast powder gets the "optimum pressure in a shorter time making it a viable powder in a smaller case and shorter barrel.
Yes there are several wildcats in 257 cal but what is one of the things you here about the 6.5 CM??? If you don't have time to reload thru the week you can stop by the gun store and buy all the loaded Ammo you need to shoot in the match this weekend. That's why I'm sticking with the 250 savage, if things takeoff it is an already established cartridge and I'm hoping that what happened with the 6.5 CM happens with the 250 savage. Just like hornady making brass the hard parts already done, just need some good high BC match bullets and a little more work with some powders at the range.
SB
P.S. Sorry I got a little windy there. LOL
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
10/02/2016
Well made a trip down to CABELAS Friday to get some bullets and powder.
Well I got some bullets - Berger 115gr match hunters, but they didn't have any reloaders 17. So I'm going to do some reloading and get some chronograph readings and see where things are at.
SB
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
10/09/2016 Last edited 10/09/2016 by savagebrother
I went to the range today to get some chrono readings for the 100gr Sierra matchking 36.5grs varget which is really shooting good. I set up at the 200 yard range because it's easier to set up the chronograph on it. Well try as I might I couldn't get my chronograph to read!!!! I guess I need to buy a new one this ones 20 years old. Now for the good part my buddy I was shooting with had come over and was asking what was up and I told him about my chrono problems and he was saying that's tuff but then he looked thru the spotting scope and said wow have you looked at the group you just shot?? I said no I was messing with the chrono and didn't really pay any attention to the group. Well I'll let you guys look at it-10 shots 200 yards. Oh I did forget one thing I used just plain old CCI 200 primers
SB
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
10/19/2016
Hey guys sorry for the wait!! My 20+ year old chronograph gave up the ghost and quit working so I ordered a magnetospeed chronograph
so I'll try and get some numbers for my load by this weekend
sB
bishop112X
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
10/20/2016
great thread! very interesting for a newbie like me.
savagebrotherX
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Re: anybody ever think about doing a little time with the 250...
10/20/2016
glad your having a good time reading bishop112 the threads, its fun to revisit some old cartridges that have never been used with our new powders.
SB
