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SBR Bolt Rifle
- Thread starter trauma1
- Start date
Are you suppressed? 10” 300 blackout would be pretty bad ass
14” 6.5CM or 260. still right there around 308 175 SMK territory of you’re handloading and pushing the velocity envelope
14” seems like a lot of effort when a 16” wouldn’t cost you a tax stamp. A 300blk with threads that just cleared the end of the stock would be pretty sweet.
I just did a 16” .308, and I don’t think I would pay to go shorter. If I wanted to go shorter, I’d rather pay $200 toward the stamp for an OTB can like a Ballista or something.
Another thought I just had on this is you could pin and weld you muzzle device to the barrel at 16" and get around the tax stamp that way.
I am currently thinking of pinning and welding a flashhider/suppressor mount onto an upcoming build which would give me a barrel length of about 13.5" or so. Just a thought!
Ben
I am currently thinking of pinning and welding a flashhider/suppressor mount onto an upcoming build which would give me a barrel length of about 13.5" or so. Just a thought!
Ben
I was gonna do a 10.2 300blk with a pinned suppressor, I even had the mod 7 aac and an aac medium contour 1:7 barrel. I backed out because I can buy a Honey Badger for just a touch more money than the bolt gun was gonna be in the end. I know its not quite the same thing, but in the end, an AR pistol is hard to argue with for size and legality.
If I was gonna do a bolt action SBR, I have concluded a couple of things:
1. Use a very short action, rem mod 7, howa mini, somethin like that, aftet all, every inch counts. (Thats what she said)
2. Use a zippy caliber like 223, 6.5G, or whatever. Your not gonna be happy with a velocity-crippled 300blk in the end, no matter how cool it is to play with subs.
3. Speaking of Q, I hear they are 6-8 months out on a "Fix Pistol".
Hope this helps!
If I was gonna do a bolt action SBR, I have concluded a couple of things:
1. Use a very short action, rem mod 7, howa mini, somethin like that, aftet all, every inch counts. (Thats what she said)
2. Use a zippy caliber like 223, 6.5G, or whatever. Your not gonna be happy with a velocity-crippled 300blk in the end, no matter how cool it is to play with subs.
3. Speaking of Q, I hear they are 6-8 months out on a "Fix Pistol".
Hope this helps!
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For something inside of 300? Id go with something fast. You dont hear much about 22-250. Bet it would make for a nice varmint rifle.
Know what you're getting into before doing it. Speed is what kills and makes rifles lethal. Barrel length is directly proportional to speed. If I was going to SBR something I certainly would not go through the trouble and pay a tax stamp for just an inch or two. So I would say 12" or shorter. At that point the projectile is not going to have much speed and now you don't have much energy. Subsonics are cool from an audible standpoint but they suck ballisticly from a drop and energy standpoint. From a 100 yard supersonic zero, going off memory, I'm 1.7 Mils low at 50 yards and 3.5 Mils low at 100 with a subsonic 180 gr 308. That's a HUGE difference. I personally have not tried to harvest anything with subsonic pills but I know some guys that have harvested more animals than I probably ever will have tried and they said that they are horrible. I have a short (not SBR, it's 17.375" long) 308 and it is very handy and would make and awesome truck or box blind gun. Even with the suppressor it's the same length as my 26" competition rigs. If you are going 30 cal go 308 over 300 BLK in a bolt gun. Subsonic you can shoot the exact same bullets at the exact same speed. Put in supersonic loads and the 308 will beat a 300 BLK by a bunch. If you want a short bolt gun go for it but I think keeping it 16.5" saves a lot of headache and will be more effective at killing. I wouldn't shoot any game I wanted to harvest with a subsonic.
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Oh you mean like the 300 BLK SBR Noveske that I own or one of the 308 custom bolt rifles that are sitting in my safe? I'll have to give them a try.
I don't want to get hit with any of them and I'm sure its possible to kill something with any of them. One of the biggest Elk mounts I've ever seen was taken with a 22lr in the ear. It's in a bar between Creede and Lake City CO. However physics are physics and Energy = 1/2 Mass * Velocity^2 no matter which way the internet commandos try to get around it. But if you think that a 300 BLK or a subsonic 308 is more effective than a "normal" 308 at killing then you are delusional. If you have a different opinion then share it, intelligently, keeping within the confines of physics. If all you have to do is contradict other peoples opinions, Get a life!.
I don't want to get hit with any of them and I'm sure its possible to kill something with any of them. One of the biggest Elk mounts I've ever seen was taken with a 22lr in the ear. It's in a bar between Creede and Lake City CO. However physics are physics and Energy = 1/2 Mass * Velocity^2 no matter which way the internet commandos try to get around it. But if you think that a 300 BLK or a subsonic 308 is more effective than a "normal" 308 at killing then you are delusional. If you have a different opinion then share it, intelligently, keeping within the confines of physics. If all you have to do is contradict other peoples opinions, Get a life!.
Here's mine: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/something-different.6891118/#post-7138412
Mine is 11" from end-to-end chambered in .308 Win with a 11.25 twist barrel. This wasn't meant to be a LR rifle, but I put a Schmidt on it, so why not.. 135g SMK at 2700 fps gets me to 1,000 yards with 13.1 mils of elevation.
At 300 yards, I'm getting 1.3 mils elevation, 2030 fps, and 1235 ftlbs of energy - plenty for everything in Texas. Transonic at 682 yards. Subsonic at 878 yards. All of this is between 650-850ft ASL.
I contemplated an SBR 260, but with pressure curves being higher in a short barrel than the .308, my suppressor could face catastrophic problems. Don't get me wrong, on the 11" .308, it's still a gamble. Without a can, the rifle is downright painful; with one, it's bearable.
Edit to add: If you're going to SBR a bolt action, do yourself a favor and get the ARC Barloc or the new SAC barrel vice, or both. You can quickly swap to a different caliber with a longer barrel (or shorter) and you're not exactly handicapped if you need more downrange energy. Another consideration is, Form1'ing one action and swapping bolts/barrels as you please. I'm debating a 338 Federal, but I'm waiting to see Q's 8.6 Creed first.
Mine is 11" from end-to-end chambered in .308 Win with a 11.25 twist barrel. This wasn't meant to be a LR rifle, but I put a Schmidt on it, so why not.. 135g SMK at 2700 fps gets me to 1,000 yards with 13.1 mils of elevation.
At 300 yards, I'm getting 1.3 mils elevation, 2030 fps, and 1235 ftlbs of energy - plenty for everything in Texas. Transonic at 682 yards. Subsonic at 878 yards. All of this is between 650-850ft ASL.
I contemplated an SBR 260, but with pressure curves being higher in a short barrel than the .308, my suppressor could face catastrophic problems. Don't get me wrong, on the 11" .308, it's still a gamble. Without a can, the rifle is downright painful; with one, it's bearable.
Edit to add: If you're going to SBR a bolt action, do yourself a favor and get the ARC Barloc or the new SAC barrel vice, or both. You can quickly swap to a different caliber with a longer barrel (or shorter) and you're not exactly handicapped if you need more downrange energy. Another consideration is, Form1'ing one action and swapping bolts/barrels as you please. I'm debating a 338 Federal, but I'm waiting to see Q's 8.6 Creed first.
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Not sure what your use is, but the new 8.6 creedmoor that Q is developing looks pretty cool, and I think I remember reading that it's made for a 12.5" barrel. The 338 can would be the only issue, most (all?) current 338 cans would be made for the big 338 magnums and would be overkill, just big and bulky for what you are trying to do. Q is making a can for this round, but it isn't released yet.
I don't understand 300 BLK in a bolt gun over a 308. 308 seems more versatile as you can go supersonic or subsonic depending on need. Now 300 BLK in an AR makes some sense I guess, if that's what you're into.
I suppose. Somebody on here years ago had a Model 7 in .308 that was pretty handy. Personally I'd likely go that route, but different strokes for different folks I guess.
Seems kind of like a novelty item to me.
Blackout is OK I've killed a couple deer with 147 gr bullets from a 16" Bolt gun. And it was fun in sbr ar-15 for a while.
I think if I was going to go through the trouble i'd use a pistol round and go real short. Maybe just put a stock on a mares leg.
Probably not too great at 300 yds...
If it's portability size you're after what about a folding stock or take down?
End of the day I think nfa stuff is such a hassle it better be worth the effort.
Blackout is OK I've killed a couple deer with 147 gr bullets from a 16" Bolt gun. And it was fun in sbr ar-15 for a while.
I think if I was going to go through the trouble i'd use a pistol round and go real short. Maybe just put a stock on a mares leg.
Probably not too great at 300 yds...
If it's portability size you're after what about a folding stock or take down?
End of the day I think nfa stuff is such a hassle it better be worth the effort.
Subsonic 300 blk is easy to find, cheap and accurate.
Subsonic 308 is expensive hard to find and most loads are not accurate due to the powder not filling the case
Super short barrel 308s arent going to fully burn the powder in a supersonic load leading to extra noise/muzzle blast/ powder in suppressor / etc
For 300 yards 300 super loads will work great. He said 300 yards. Not 5-6-800
220 smk works great when properly placed and I'm sure the expanding loads from hornady and others will work even better. The supers like the 110vmax also work great.
He never even said anything about hunting though.
The drop is irrelevant with a good ffp reticle or the ffp blackout reticle.
People have been tap dancing around it for decades, but an SBR length, .308 bore 7.62x39 is not such a bad idea for subsonics. I would suggest a twist a bit faster than 1:10". The outcome is maybe something a bit closer to a 30PPC. Exploits with the Savage and 7.62x39.
Lapua makes brass, and the Sierra 180 Gr RN Pro Hunter may be a useful menu selection. PTG offers a bolt head with a PPC Option.
Just a thought...
Greg
PS I have a .308 bore 7.62x39 Savage 10FCM Scout that I apply in the opposite direction with 110gr V-Max over IMR-4198 (I still have like 3lb of it left over from a disappointing 30BR Project) in PPU brass.
I does not disappoint.
I removed the rear peep and Scout scope base and replaced it with a conventional EGW 20MOA base. There was no point to using a Scout scope mounting with a rifle that does not allow stripper clip loading and has a DM. Right now it uses a relatively affordable Tasco 2.5-10x42 Varmint/Target MilDot Scope.
Lapua makes brass, and the Sierra 180 Gr RN Pro Hunter may be a useful menu selection. PTG offers a bolt head with a PPC Option.
Just a thought...
Greg
PS I have a .308 bore 7.62x39 Savage 10FCM Scout that I apply in the opposite direction with 110gr V-Max over IMR-4198 (I still have like 3lb of it left over from a disappointing 30BR Project) in PPU brass.
I does not disappoint.
I removed the rear peep and Scout scope base and replaced it with a conventional EGW 20MOA base. There was no point to using a Scout scope mounting with a rifle that does not allow stripper clip loading and has a DM. Right now it uses a relatively affordable Tasco 2.5-10x42 Varmint/Target MilDot Scope.
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I saw this when he posted it and liked it from day 1. Here are the specs I copied:
"trued up remy 700
pacnor 7 twist w/223 match chamber
manners stock I bought used off the hide had to cut the fore end down to fit the short barrel
surgeon bottom metal
talley rings and bases
it now wears a vortex 2.5-10
aac spr/m4 556 can
10" 223 with a 7 twist and AAC spr/m4. I run the 80 amax. I shoot this thing more than any other rifle I own"
I have all the parts and pieces sitting in a box to build it. Just need to file the paperwork.
"trued up remy 700
pacnor 7 twist w/223 match chamber
manners stock I bought used off the hide had to cut the fore end down to fit the short barrel
surgeon bottom metal
talley rings and bases
it now wears a vortex 2.5-10
aac spr/m4 556 can
10" 223 with a 7 twist and AAC spr/m4. I run the 80 amax. I shoot this thing more than any other rifle I own"
I have all the parts and pieces sitting in a box to build it. Just need to file the paperwork.
Thank you very much for your response ! That makes a lot of sense. I am not hung up on subsonic even though it will be suppressed. Looks like a fun night of ballistics evaluations.
I have tried the SBR Rifles in both bolt and Semi. They are handy, cute, accurate and don’t kill worth a darn. 5.56 and 7.62. Full bore loads and SS.
I still have a bunch of AR SBR uppers for my registered lower. They are seldom used.
YMMV
I still have a bunch of AR SBR uppers for my registered lower. They are seldom used.
YMMV
Familiar with target pistols. Was genuinely curious as from what I’ve read so far across the different forums lends to reason that the OP is looking at a maneuverable hunting rifle. Have seen shorter barreled precision rifles but nothing close to an SBR.Yeah
Edit: Pistols, I know but basically just a sbr without a stamp
Back to the issue of SBR’s as killing tools. One of the above posters touched on velocity. That is a large part of the equation but not all of it.
At lower velocity you get lower rotational velocity as well. This plays a good bit on killing ability. The rotational velocity is a real stressor on bullet jackets. Causes them to open up on impact and drastically increases tissue damage.
Unlike forward velocity, rotational velocity is a near constant across a bullets flight. So, a bullet that was fired at 2750 is far more deadly when it reaches 1100F FPS than a bullet fired at 1100 FPS is at the muzzle. Same velocity, same bullet, different result.
The results are actual, not theoretical.
At lower velocity you get lower rotational velocity as well. This plays a good bit on killing ability. The rotational velocity is a real stressor on bullet jackets. Causes them to open up on impact and drastically increases tissue damage.
Unlike forward velocity, rotational velocity is a near constant across a bullets flight. So, a bullet that was fired at 2750 is far more deadly when it reaches 1100F FPS than a bullet fired at 1100 FPS is at the muzzle. Same velocity, same bullet, different result.
The results are actual, not theoretical.
338 federal ?
what other calibers can be ever so slightly changed and called creedmoor?
edit: i just came up w/ a new caliber, neck down 308 to 22 caliber and call it 5.6 creedmoor?
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This one is way different than a 338 federal. Not even close
22 creedmoor is already a thing
This one is way different than a 338 federal. Not even close
