schneider barrels in 2024

[RTH1800]

I actually have bought barrels from most of the top barrel makers. Hart, Schneider, Douglas, Bartlein, Kreiger, Lilja, Shilen, Obemeyr, Proof, Atchenson & Marquart and possibly others.

I will say that both David and Gary have been first class to deal with in every way. Just at the folks at Bartlein have been.

Shilen and Lilja sent me more that one bad barrel. Either inaccurate or in the Shilen cases had voids in the metal that not only would have ruined accuracy but possibly been unsafe. Lilja were very poor shooters. All the others were fine.

The biggest surprise to me is that anyone lets 50.00 figure into the equation. The least surprising thing in the thread is that DBD is here arguing again.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Guess I should throw away this tier 2 or 3 button barrel....

 

[PRSDietitian]

which one is that? The wilson?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I have a few button rifled barrels I’ve bought over the years, and a few hammer forged barrels. Does it make me a dumb shit to buy those for M4 carbine barrels? They’re rack grade fighting gun barrels, they shoot more than good enough for their intended purpose. Why would I spend twice as much for a cut rifled barrel for that use?

Currently I have two button barrels on bolt guns, both Coopers, one in .280 AI and one .22LR. Both of them shoot.

We are talking about precision rifles, not m4's not carbines not battle rifles. Read the room.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Like I said button continues to be the gold standard for rimfire. Shilen, Benchmark and Mueller are the rimfire leaders. All button rifled. Mueller and Benchmark do cut on centerfire but still button all the rimfires.

Oh yea? Tell that to Vudoo who use Cut Rifle Barliens and ACE.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

No, you can't comprehend someone having a different opinion than yours. I'll 100% agree, cut rifle barrels by and large are better than button rifle barrels. But to say if a blank is buttoned then it's automatically trash is a little closed minded. IS it easier to get across the board consistency with cut? Yes. Frank Green and John Krieger have shown that better than anyone. But to say if you have a button rifle barrel, that its going to shoot trash is inaccurate since before bartlein and benchmark and others became mainstream, records were still being set with Krieger, Hart, etc. The 2018 ELR cold bore world record was done with a button barrel. I reached out to K&P after you mentioned them to see if they could acommodate what I want. I'm basically recreating the Bartlein I shot in 2016 which was a 26" 1:7 twist 6mm blank, 5R with a custom profile, 1.25 shank, 5" long shak, to a 1.10 at the muzzle. I know Frank will do it but i was quoted at close to a year. So I looked into button rifle because I know they can do it faster and as long as they are done properly and lapped properly, they'll still shoot fine and as long as it's chambered properly. That was my main point because hart, shilen, schneider, etc all quoted me in weeks rather than months and that appealed to my needs right now

You have a reading comprehension issue. Like many people here you are hearing what you want to instead of what is being said.

No where did I say all button rifle barrels are trash. So do me a favor and stop putting words in peoples mouth. If you can't make a salient argument without making stuff up, you shouldn't start one.

Can and have button rifled barrels set world records? Yup.

Are the odds in your favor a button rifle will out perform a cut rifle? Nope.

Are there CHF barrels out there that shoot lights out? Yup Is that the norm? Nope.

Its like some idiot winning the lottery then telling everyone how good of a financial decision it is. Everyone should play the power ball......ignoring the odds.

When looking at the entire situation, button rifle barrels are a poor purchasing decision for everyone. The total amortized cost of shooting out a button and a cut rifle is nil. The expected difference in performance, is not. Its a pennies wise, pound foolish decision.

 

[oldrifleman]

Yeah, it was a universal truth, but VuDoo and RimX have changed that, at least for PRS/NRL. I believe that technology /techniques have progressed to the point that this stereotype is changing as well. I had my Anschutz rebarreled using a Bartlein.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

which one is that? The wilson?

Hart barrel in 6x47. Full targets of the above for transparency. Left is 110smk and 2 on the right are 107smk. Same set of loads shot twice to confirm.

 

[JDELRShooter]

I’ve been competing in Extreme Long Range light and heavy class since 2019 and currently on Team Liberty Hill Precision Firearms. I’ve known and competed with the David Tubb, Christie and Nate for several years now. The one thing I know about them is their attention to detail and their pursuit of excellence. The main barrels I’ve shot with over the years are Bartlein, K&P snd Shaw. This year I bought a Schnieder barrel for my 33XC. That barrel is lights out, quickly found the velocity node and the grouping fantastic. This barrel keeps performing like this I will not run anything else.

 

[PRSDietitian]

I’ve been competing in Extreme Long Rang light and heavy class since 2019 and currently on Team Liberty Hill Precision Firearms. I’ve known and competed with the David Tubb, Christie and Nate for several years now. The one thing I know about them is their attention to detail and their pursuit of excellence. The main barrels I’ve shot with over the years are Bartlein, K&P snd Shaw. This year I bought a Schnieder barrel for my 33XC. That barrel is lights out, quickly found the velocity node and the grouping fantastic. This barrel keeps performing like this I will not run anything else.

I’m pretty sure Nate had the world record cold bo shot back in 2018 with one of those Schneider barrels. I think it was like 2011 yards or so with a 33 XC.

 

[JDELRShooter]

I’m pretty sure Nate had the world record cold bo shot back in 2018 with one of those Schneider barrels. I think it was like 2011 yards or so with a 33 XC.

Would not be surprised, first time I shot with them was in Virginia in 2021 they beat everyone lol. I think the Cold Bore record target is over 2900 now. Hoping bring that record home this year.

 

[PRSDietitian]

Would not be surprised, first time I shot with them was in Virginia in 2021 they beat everyone lol. I think the Cold Bore record target is over 2900 now. Hoping bring that record home this year.

Kick some ass! Speaking of David, I had a question for him regarding what gunsmith he would recommend that would have his reamer on hand, and the guy turns around and gives me a call. I always appreciate when customer service goes around and gives you a call instead of just responding to an email when they get to it.

 

[db2000]

You all can say what you want but I can't shoot the difference between a cut and button barrel in a prs rig. Maybe in a benchrest rig but I wouldn't say that until I tested it. Even....

Buy what's available from any of the many names and have a good smith chamber it.

Here is a pic from a brand new button rifle barrel blank I did from Wilson (sub $200 barrel) with factory hornady from a gen 1 ruger rpr. The sister rifle I did shot the same. Something like 10 or 15rds in the center, stickies are rounds 2-5.

View attachment 8385767

Not sure why people post, what I assume is, 3 shot groups. If you have an XR51 that needs first or second shot one hole accuracy for life threatening matters then I get it. Otherwise, competition rifles should post 10 shots or GTFO.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Not sure why people post, what I assume is, 3 shot groups. If you have an XR51 that needs first or second shot one hole accuracy for life threatening matters then I get it. Otherwise, competition rifles should post 10 shots or GTFO.

Calm down bud it was load development. Showed promise with great ES and SD. Next step is a larger sample.

Regardless I'd rather have repeated groups over multiple trips to prove a load and not just 1 group of any size. Any time I shoot 100 I print a 5 shot group and record the size. 10 shots you are testing the shooter more than the rifle.

 

[db2000]

Calm down bud it was load development. Showed promise with great ES and SD. Next step is a larger sample.

Regardless I'd rather have repeated groups over multiple trips to prove a load and not just 1 group of any size. Any time I shoot 100 I print a 5 shot group and record the size. 10 shots you are testing the shooter more than the rifle.

I guess I’d preface with that
Anyway, hope it develops nicely

 

[kthomas]

Benchmark have been cut rifle since 2019. I have one in the mail as we speak. The guys running them In prs are running cut rifled benchmarks.

I believe mine are all button.

I would have no problem shooting my 6.5 Creedmoor Benchmark in a PRS match, it's a solid 1/3 MOA barrel. In fact I have used it for PRS.

I believe Jake Vibbert was using button Benchmarks previously. I know Travis Stevens has no problems with precision from button Benchmarks compared to cut rifled barrels. Perhaps all PRS shooters are using cut rifled barrels these days, that I don't know.

I will agree that I prefer for my barrels to be cut rifled for when I want my rifles to be as precise as possible. Though I can't say that I can quantify the difference. I'm not sure if there really is one, when you are comparing the highest quality button blanks to cut rifled.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

I guess I’d preface with that
Anyway, hope it develops nicely

All good bud! I hope so too

 

[swampbuck]

Oh yea? Tell that to Vudoo who use Cut Rifle Barliens and ACE.

Bartleins are great barrels but there is no arguing that button rifled barrels are the leaders in 22 bencherest. AKA the gold standard in accuracy. Vudoo makes mostly tactical trainers and rifles for PRS rimfire type games and activities that are less pure accuracy dependent.

 

[RTH1800]

Serious question.
Are Vudoo rifles winning any national or international BR matches? Olympic comps? I have not heard of any but do not follow it closely.

 

[swampbuck]

They aren't really made for bencherest. Turbo or 2500x single shot actions are for bencherest. As said Shilen Mueller and Benchmark barrels have been the leaders. Bartleins and Krieger do make 22 rimfire barrels but represent a minority but can be competitive.

Can you use a Vudoo or RimX for bencherest? Sure. Are they competitive at top levels? Not really. Anybody shooting at top levels will have a purpose built rifle. You will see a lot of crossovers at club matches though.

 

[JDELRShooter]

Kick some ass! Speaking of David, I had a question for him regarding what gunsmith he would recommend that would have his reamer on hand, and the guy turns around and gives me a call. I always appreciate when customer service goes around and gives you a call instead of just responding to an email when they get to it.

David is a real stand up guy, my first year shooting heavy I had rifle built in 37XC and was having issues trying to get the velocity I need but kept hitting pressure. He called me up and helped me out with some suggestions. That’s like Micheal Jordan calling you up to help you with a basketball shot.

 

[supercorndogs]

I’ve been competing in Extreme Long Range light and heavy class since 2019 and currently on Team Liberty Hill Precision Firearms. I’ve known and competed with the David Tubb, Christie and Nate for several years now. The one thing I know about them is their attention to detail and their pursuit of excellence. The main barrels I’ve shot with over the years are Bartlein, K&P snd Shaw. This year I bought a Schnieder barrel for my 33XC. That barrel is lights out, quickly found the velocity node and the grouping fantastic. This barrel keeps performing like this I will not run anything else.

What's a velocity node?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

What's a velocity node?

I was going to go there but enough feelings have been hurt already. LOL

 

[JDELRShooter]

What's a velocity node?

Every barrel has a harmonic node where the velocities shot to shot are consistent with each other. I load develop to find that node where my velocity SD is 5 or lower. When you fire a round while the bullet is traveling down the barrel. The vibrations travel back and forth extremely fast. When the vibration hits the end of the barrel there is a pause before it travels back. You’re looking for the velocity that has the bullet exiting the barrel during that pause. That is where your velocity node is. Nodes will occur at various velocities the longer the barrel the longer the separation between the nodes.

 

[supercorndogs]

Every barrel has a harmonic node where the velocities shot to shot are consistent with each other. I load develop to find that node where my velocity SD is 5 or lower. When you fire a round while the bullet is traveling down the barrel. The vibrations travel back and forth extremely fast. When the vibration hits the end of the barrel there is a pause before it travels back. You’re looking for the velocity that has the bullet exiting the barrel during that pause. That is where your velocity node is. Nodes will occur at various velocities the longer the barrel the longer the separation between the nodes.

And how do you find these velocity nodes?

 

[swampbuck]

If you got the time or interest this video is 20 minutes of gold to help you understand
But the previous post is a good short answer

 

[JDELRShooter]

And how do you find these velocity nodes?

I use a LabRadar or my Speedtracker Mach 4 chronograph. That’s not the end of, once you get a load developed if you shoot long range you then need to true your velocities at distance about 80% transonic range (where the bullet is transitioning to subsonic) the ballistic silver will tell you, I use applied ballistics in a Kestrel 5700 elite.

 

[supercorndogs]

Velocity flat spots are an aberration in your data.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

If you got the time or interest this video is 20 minutes of gold to help you understand
But the previous post is a good short answer

Notice how those guys disappeared off face of earth. 6 year old video.

We don't believe in old wives tales anymore.

Nodes do not exist.

 

[kthomas]

Notice how those guys disappeared off face of earth. 6 year old video.

We don't believe in old wives tales anymore.

Nodes do not exist.

There needs to be a stickied thread that explains how the "Satterlee Method" does not find velocity nodes.

 

[JDELRShooter]

There needs to be a stickied thread that explains how the "Satterlee Method" does not find velocity nodes.

Probably not with your pea shooters but the results with large caliber big bore rifles says otherwise. You do you

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Hey Guys.

Good News! I found a node for my 37XC
Bad News! Barrel is now toast.

 

[RUN8]

That describes any overbore magnum.

A friend of mine asked for help developing a load for his .26 Nosler, asked what his goal was; he said to find the most accurate load possible. He wanted to start reloading just to load for that rifle.

I pointed out he might have a realistic barrel life of 600 rounds before the throat is torched and bullets can’t be seated out any further to still shoot and feed from the magazine. He wasn’t aware of any of those factors.

Suggested if factory ammo is performing well to buy 200 rounds of it from the same lot, sight it in and hunt with it for the next 10 years.

 

[supercorndogs]

Probably not with your pea shooters but the results with large caliber big bore rifles says otherwise. You do you

Maybe a node based on POI. IE a place where the largest powder variance causes the smallest shift in POI but that's not based on velocity and can't be found with chronograph.