Rifle Scopes Scope Leveling Question

[Vyx313]

Got my MPA PMR Pro II with the new CDG action. I’m getting ready to install a scope but as I started checking level, I noticed that built in picatinny rail is out of level with the built in level.

How should I proceed here? I think it would make sense to adjust the rifle to level with the receiver rail but then the chassis level will be out of level. Opionions?

Thanks!

 

[smoothy8500]

Since the stock level is the one you planned on using.....just use it and have the scope reticle level/plumb based on it too.

Unless the level insert is removeable and can be adjusted?

 

[Im2bent]

Flip your level 180 degrees and see if you get the same result or if the cant switches sides .

 

[Vyx313]

Flip your level 180 degrees and see if you get the same result or if the cant switches sides .

Flipped the level around, bubble is still to the right of the rifle when the chassis level is leveled.

 

[Im2bent]

Perhaps shim the arc level?

 

[Vyx313]

That’s probably the right move. Added a couple pieces of electrical tape under one side of the chassis level and they’re reading the same now. Thanks!

 

[carbonbased]

This will either clear your mind or turn it to a anxiety-filled swamp.

Take a small hammer and first hit the level in the chassis. Make sure all the liquid is gone. Plant a small in the void. Or maybe an ant farm. Up to you.

Then smash the external level.

Mount the bottom of your scope parallel to the scope rail with a deck of playing cards, an Arisaka scope level, a Scope Jack, or by leveling the rifle by eye and aligning the reticle plumb to the corner of a building (or a plumb line, if you must).

Then get out there and shoot!

(Edit: just make sure your rifle is held so the reticle is plumb to gravity/the world when you shoot. That is what matters)

 

[MCHOG]

Oh man. This is going to start some shit. People have strong feelings about whether the reticle should be level with your rifle or level with the Earth when you shoulder it. Good shooters also disagree about whether a bubble level is even necessary.

I personally think it's helpful to have a level if you'll be shooting far (high 100s to 1000+ yards), but that it should be level to the Earth when you have he rifle shouldered. So I wouldn't worry about the rail or the built-in level. I'd use a plumb bob at a distance (and an extra set of hands) to help you get the scope reticle level to the Earth when it's mounted on the rifle. I would also use a level that attaches to the scope tube, and not the rail, so it can be rotated and trued to the reticle.

Take a look at this thread, and especially the posts by Jack Master

Engineers/Math People Get In Here

I asked this question a while back and didn’t get any responses so I’m still curious. When I set a rifle up I get comfortable on the rifle and then level my scope to that position. Some guys spend hours and $$ trying to get their rifle and scope level to each other. The way I understand it in...

www.snipershide.com

 

[carbonbased]

A link for context:

What part of the rifle do you level when mounting a Scope - does it matter?

I have spent the last decade getting my irons down and am fairly competent with them (I usually shoot 20 inch AR variants). I wanted to switch it up this year and get into magnified optics & bolt guns. With budget constraints the only thing I currently have to play with right now is an 18 inch...

www.snipershide.com

Check out the long version in the above post too.

 

[Rocketmandb]

If you're going to use a level, the only thing that matters is that it's level with the reticle. Using a level on the stock is just a way to introduce error. Get a level that attaches to the scope so you can make sure it matches up with the reticle.

 

[Yerman]

My MPA and my buddies are both off like that. The material under the bottom squishes together and the only way to properly level the reticle is to build up layer of tape. Those little POS levels they install are garbage and the lack of adjustability drives me nuts.

If you want some good material to use, look into buying something like this https://a.co/d/9Pjjn6u

Remove the level and wrap it around a few times, check the fit, add or remove tape until it’s perfect.

A little on the other side will also help lock it in place.

***Be careful not to over-tighten and break the level. Doing this ads to the diameter of the vial so there is an increased chance of crushing it ***

 

[Mike Casselton]

I think someone should start a tutorial on how to bed your chassis mounted level.

 

[smoothy8500]

This is all based on the assumption the scope mounting screw holes were TDC/plumb to begin with....Which one is correct; The scope mount or the stock?

 

[Burdy]

I try to get my gun as level as possible and then use a plumb line @ 100 yards.
However, if you look at one of the cant charts, a full 10 degrees (and that's a LOT) of offset is worth 3.1" at 1000 yards. For me, from a practical accuracy standpoint this means, well, its probably not worth pulling your hair out over.

 

[chevy_man]

I try to get my gun as level as possible and then use a plumb line @ 100 yards.
However, if you look at one of the cant charts, a full 10 degrees (and that's a LOT) of offset is worth 3.1" at 1000 yards. For me, from a practical accuracy standpoint this means, well, its probably not worth pulling your hair out over.

This. I just eyeball it. Unless I was doing elr, I wouldn't be worried.

If I was doing elr, I'd get one of the mdt levels and true it to the scope reticle.

 

[rauchman]

If it helps, I found this tool very useful for scope leveling...

Arisaka scope level kit

 

[FuhQ]

I would lean more towards the stock level not being level, than the machined-in pic rail made on the action... JMO.

Also, fuck what the stock says, level your scope to your action/rail. Then worry about shimming the stock level to make it match.

 

[Vyx313]

Also, fuck what the stock says, level your scope to your action/rail. Then worry about shimming the stock level to make it match.

This is the option I’m going with. Seems to make the most sense to me. Thank you!

 

[FuhQ]

This is the option I’m going with. Seems to make the most sense to me. Thank you!

The reason I say this, is because if the stock is tweaked slightly one way or another when you're shooting, it's not important in the least. The only thing that really matters is that your action is torqued down into it to proper spec. But if you're scope is out of whack with the bore axis, then that can give the scope some serious problems, like being canted one way or the other, or being pushed to one side and your scope is no longer centered up left & right causing you to run out of adjustment where it favors one side or the other, when trying to zero your rifle. And if you're shooting long range, and your scope is not leveled to your action, and it's canted one way, when you start dialing, it's going to push your POI up at an angle, which can cause people to rack their brains wonder WTF is going on, but it's really as simple as their scope isn't 100% leveled.

 

[CK1.0]

I don't like chassis-mounted levels or the ones that are integrated with scope mounts... I'd never trust a chassis-mounted or integrated scope mount level because 99% of the ones I've seen have been wrong (some egregiously), and I've never seen one made beefy enough to stay that way even if they were correct when they left the factory.

I like to level the stock/chassis first, then mount the scope and make sure that is level/plumb (first using a plumb line, then later I check it at 100 yards with a leveled target), then finally, when I know the reticle is plumb, as the last step, I add my scope level (with the comfort of knowing it's right).

IDK how many degrees of cant will throw me off a target exactly... but what I do know is: that a target that's way out there and only 3-4 tenths wide doesn't offer a whole lot of room for error, and the smaller they get, and/or the further away they are, it only gets less forgiving.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I like to level the stock/chassis first, then mount the scope and make sure that is level/plumb (first using a plumb line, then later I check it at 100 yards with a leveled target), then finally, when I know the reticle is plumb, as the last step, I add my scope level (with the comfort of knowing it's right).

I do it in sort of an opposite way.

I have a smallrig plate used for videography that has a bunch of holes in it. It mounts to a tripod, and...

To this plate I mounted a pic rail. This very basic setup is what I use for all my scope leveling.

When I level a scope:

1) I put the scope in its designated mount (or a spare if necessary), but do not fully tighten the screws. I have it tight enough that there is a little friction, but light enough that I can rotate the scope within the mount.

2) I put the smallrig/pic rail setup on a tripod, and then put the scope/mount on the smallrig/pic rail and lightly tighten on the pic rail - enough that it doesn't move.

3) Mount a scope-mounted level to the scope and tighten just enough that it doesn't move on its own, but still can be moved.

4) Set up the plumb line and point the scope at it.

Now I'm ready to go through the leveling process.

5) Align the reticle against the plumb line by rotating the scope within its mount.

6) Once aligned, carefully tighten the scope mount screws enough that the scope won't rotate when you...

7) Rotate the scope-mounted level until it shows level, then tighten it per manufacturers direction.

You now have a level that is perfectly aligned against the reticle - AND - unless it gets dropped or something that screws it all up, IT WILL ALWAYS BE LEVEL TO THE RETICLE. This means that you can move it between mounts, etc. and never have to relevel it again.

Each time you want to mount it to a rifle, you:

1) Level your rifle in a vice.

2) Put the mount/scope onto the rifle.

3) Turn the scope in the mount until it's level shows the same as the level used for the rifle.

4) Carefully tighten the scope screws per manufacturer spec.

Very easy. Can't do this with rail mounted levels (which could also be off, depending on how the rail is mounted), and can't do this with stock mounted levels, which I think we've established earlier in this thread are two steps away from what really matters - aligning vs. the reticle.

 

[HogsLife]

Got my MPA PMR Pro II with the new CDG action. I’m getting ready to install a scope but as I started checking level, I noticed that built in picatinny rail is out of level with the built in level.

View attachment 8247478

How should I proceed here? I think it would make sense to adjust the rifle to level with the receiver rail but then the chassis level will be out of level. Opionions?

View attachment 8247480
Thanks!

What you need is more bubbles. Get enough of them on there and 1 should show level. Just pick the one that is and call it good.

 

[Burdy]

View attachment 8249013

What you need is more bubbles. Get enough of them on there and 1 should show level. Just pick the one that is and call it good.

This pic gives you everything you need to know about scope leveling.