Scope Options with a set of criteria

[PotbellyVandal]

Trying to open my mind and get a fresh look at what options I should be seriously considering. I have already reached out to @Euro.Connor and I am sure he will provide some feedback for me as well. I am curious with the following set of criteria what the masses here would suggest and have experience with.

6.5PRC build
Max Scope Weight - 36oz (poss. up to 38)
Max Magnification Minimum - 25x
Budget - $2500 with a little bit of room if there is an outstanding option

What are the top 3-5 scopes that you would recommend?

p.s. new to the long range world after years of spending too much money and time in the tactical game.

 

[Glassaholic]

Specific to your set of criteria and based on Euro street prices, here’s some thoughts in no particular order

• Leica PRS 5-30x56. https://www.eurooptic.com/Leica-PRS-5-30x56-i-PRB-Riflescope-51300.aspx
• Burris XTR PRO 5.5-30x56. https://www.eurooptic.com/Burris-Xt...m-34mm-Illum-SCR-2-1-4-Mil-Riflescope-20.aspx
• Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56. https://www.eurooptic.com/Leupold-Mark-5HD-5-25x56-35mm-M5C3-FFP-PR2-MIL-Riflescope-180222.aspx
• Zeiss LRP S3 4-25x50. https://www.eurooptic.com/Zeiss-LRP...FFP-ZF-MRi-16-Riflescope-522675-9916-090.aspx
• Steiner T6Xi 5-30x56. https://www.eurooptic.com/Steiner-T6Xi-5-30x56mm-SCR2-Riflescope-5125.aspx

There are more but with the limited information these come to mind

 

[PotbellyVandal]

There are more but with the limited information these come to mind

What additional info can I provide to help?

 

[Zuul]

Cruise the PX and get a lightly used S&B PMII or a NF 7-35. That’s going to be the most bang for your buck.

 

[PotbellyVandal]

Cruise the PX and get a lightly used S&B PMII or a NF 7-35. That’s going to be the most bang for your buck.

Definitely not opposed to used.

 

[Glassaholic]

Definitely not opposed to used.

That opens lots more opportunity

• Schmidt 5-25x56
• Minox ZP5 5-25x56
• March 4.5-28x52
• Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56 (I do not recommend the ATACR 5-25)

Schmidt and NF might be a little on the heavy side

 

[Long Range 338]

Specific to your set of criteria and based on Euro street prices, here’s some thoughts in no particular order

• Leica PRS 5-30x56. https://www.eurooptic.com/Leica-PRS-5-30x56-i-PRB-Riflescope-51300.aspx
• Burris XTR PRO 5.5-30x56. https://www.eurooptic.com/Burris-Xt...m-34mm-Illum-SCR-2-1-4-Mil-Riflescope-20.aspx
• Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56. https://www.eurooptic.com/Leupold-Mark-5HD-5-25x56-35mm-M5C3-FFP-PR2-MIL-Riflescope-180222.aspx
• Zeiss LRP S3 4-25x50. https://www.eurooptic.com/Zeiss-LRP...FFP-ZF-MRi-16-Riflescope-522675-9916-090.aspx
• Steiner T6Xi 5-30x56. https://www.eurooptic.com/Steiner-T6Xi-5-30x56mm-SCR2-Riflescope-5125.aspx

There are more but with the limited information these come to mind

Here's the meat and potatoes of your list. All good options and you wouldn't be hindered with any of these. I would say pick the best reticle for your use and run with it.

 

[FuhQ]

Here's my top 5 recommendations in order of my personal preference...

Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm RSW CCW SKMR4 FFP Riflescope 10681

FREE SHIPPING on Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm RSW CCW SKMR4 FFP Riflescope 10681

www.eurooptic.com

Zeiss LRP S3 4-25x50mm .1 MRAD FFP ZF-MRi #16 Riflescope 522675-9916-090

FREE SHIPPING on Zeiss LRP S3 4-25x50mm .1 MRAD FFP ZF-MRi #16 Riflescope 522675-9916-090

www.eurooptic.com

Like New Nightforce ATACR - 5-25x56mm F1 ZeroStop .1 Mil-Radian DigIllum PTL Mil-XT C616

FREE SHIPPING on Like New Nightforce ATACR - 5-25x56mm F1 ZeroStop .1 Mil-Radian DigIllum PTL Mil-XT C616

www.eurooptic.com

Steiner T6Xi 5-30x56mm SCR2 Riflescope 5125

FREE SHIPPING on Steiner T6Xi 5-30x56mm SCR2 Riflescope 5125

www.eurooptic.com

Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR PRO 5.5-30x56mm 34mm Illum SCR 2 1/4 Mil Riflescope 202223

FREE SHIPPING on Burris Xtreme Tactical XTR PRO 5.5-30x56mm 34mm Illum SCR 2 1/4 Mil Riflescope 202223

www.eurooptic.com

 

[mrtoyz]

That opens lots more opportunity

• Schmidt 5-25x56
• Minox ZP5 5-25x56
• March 4.5-28x52
• Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56 (I do not recommend the ATACR 5-25)

Schmidt and NF might be a little on the heavy side

No Kahles?

 

[PotbellyVandal]

Before posting my list was the following in order of choice:

Steiner T6XI 5-30x56 - was given feedback that that there have been issues with the turrets and has a tight eyebox
March 4.5-28x52 - feedback was that at higher zoom image brightness becomes darker and warranty issues can take a while with shipping to Japan.
ATACR 5-25x56 - towards the higher end of weight I can accommodate, NF is known for good customer service, possible issues with older glass on the 5-25/ reading feedback that the 7-35 is much better.

It's a bummer to me that the Vortex options are so heavy as I have used and relied on their products on multiple gas guns and like them quite a bit.
Kahles seems interesting with their offerings but I don't have any experience with it or any of the others for that matter. Kahles 5-25 is a bit higher price point but I can always hunt for a sale, same with the newer March offerings.

 

[carbonbased]

Trying to open my mind and get a fresh look at what options I should be seriously considering. I have already reached out to @Euro.Connor and I am sure he will provide some feedback for me as well. I am curious with the following set of criteria what the masses here would suggest and have experience with.

6.5PRC build
Max Scope Weight - 36oz (poss. up to 38)
Max Magnification Minimum - 25x
Budget - $2500 with a little bit of room if there is an outstanding option

What are the top 3-5 scopes that you would recommend?

p.s. new to the long range world after years of spending too much money and time in the tactical game.

What are you shooting at?

For a lighter weight option, a Nightforce 4-32 NX8 might be nice.

To help you winnow your list, first decide on a few things:

1. Locking elevation turret? Locking windage? Is covered windage ok?
2. How big of numerals on the turret do you need?
3. Diopter setting method: Fast focus/non locking, or slow, painful focus and fiddly locking? (Lol you can see my pref)
4. Numbers on parallax knob or numberless?
5. Mil or MOA?
6. Xmas tree or simple crosshair?
7. Really bright illumination, regular illum for dusk, or not needed?
8. Type of warranty: Lifetime? 10yr but must send to Germany? Etc.
9. Must it be black?
10. Do you like caps on the eyepiece? If so, are you ok with the whole eyepiece, including your caps, rotating as you change scope magnification? (That’s how NF Atacr models work. Their NX8 models work normally)

 

[PotbellyVandal]

What are you shooting at?

To help you winnow your list, first decide on a few things:

1. Locking elevation turret? Locking windage? Is covered windage ok?
2. How big of numerals on the turret do you need?
3. Diopter setting method: Fast focus/non locking, or slow, painful focus and fiddly locking? (Lol you can see my pref)
4. Numbers on parallax knob or numberless?
5. Mil or MOA?
6. Xmas tree or simple crosshair?
7. Really bright illumination, regular illum for dusk, or not needed?
8. Type of warranty do you like? Lifetime? 10yr but must send to Germany? Etc.
9. Must it be black?
10. Do you like caps on the eyepiece? If so, are you ok with the whole eyepiece, including your caps, rotating as you change scope magnification? (That’s how NF Atacr models work. Their NX8 models work normally)

Rifle is being built for NRL Hunter open heavy and range time. 16lb max total weight.

1. I prefer locking turrets
2. I'm getting older but I have yet to see an optic that has too small of numerals.
3. Not sure, seems that getting it set and locking would be ideal for Diopter.
4. Do the numbers on a parallax really matter? Dumb question possibly.
5. Mil or gtfo.
6. Simple is good, but certainly don't mind a xmas tree.
7. I live in the PacNW so illum is a must.
8. I prefer a warranty with reliable service if it is needed. Steiner seems to have service in CO now, March says to contact dealer, their website claims 2-4 weeks turnaround time for warranty service, possible extra time to ship to Japan unless they service in the US somewhere. Most of the other companies recommended so far seem to have US repair facilities. Is Kahles a US repair or shipped overseas?
9. I'm fat and black is slimming but not mandatory for my optic.
10. I am not a fan of scope caps, I will store it with a scope sock or bikini caps if it is not in a fitted case for travel. Otherwise the rifle is in use and between stages I can cover if needed.

 

[carbonbased]

Rifle is being built for NRL Hunter open heavy and range time. 16lb max total weight.

1. I prefer locking turrets
2. I'm getting older but I have yet to see an optic that has too small of numerals.
3. Not sure, seems that getting it set and locking would be ideal for Diopter.
4. Do the numbers on a parallax really matter? Dumb question possibly.
5. Mil or gtfo.
6. Simple is good, but certainly don't mind a xmas tree.
7. I live in the PacNW so illum is a must.
8. I prefer a warranty with reliable service if it is needed. Steiner seems to have service in CO now, March says to contact dealer, their website claims 2-4 weeks turnaround time for warranty service, possible extra time to ship to Japan unless they service in the US somewhere. Most of the other companies recommended so far seem to have US repair facilities. Is Kahles a US repair or shipped overseas?
9. I'm fat and black is slimming but not mandatory for my optic.
10. I am not a fan of scope caps, I will store it with a scope sock or bikini caps if it is not in a fitted case for travel. Otherwise the rifle is in use and between stages I can cover if needed.

1. Ok. Nightforce is out due to just their 4-16 having a locking elv turret. So is Zeiss, Burris, Minox, and Leica on @Glassaholic ‘s lists. Axe the Burris, Kahles, NF, and Zeiss off of @FuhQ ‘s list. Also knocks my recce, the 4-32 NF NX8 off.

From the ones mentioned on this thread, this leaves you with a Leupold 5-25, Steiner T6xi, used March 4.5-28 and some versions of a used S&B 5-25.

Actually, I’m not sure if all March 4.5-28’s have locking turrets or not.

3. Locking diopter would seem to be nice. That is what I used to think. But for me, in reality the fast focus versions allow one to snap in/out of focus faster. This allows me to quickly figure out the ideal diopter focus. With the slow locking type I endlessly twiddle back and forth, never quite sure what the best setting is. Irritating, and the locking mech on most use a jam nut which sucks.

If you’re worried about the fast focus type moving, mark it with white nail polish and/or tape it. Some manufacturer might make an easily lockable fast focus type…not sure.

4. Numbers on the parallax are nice if you are one to preset the parallax distance before a shot. Like maybe when competing or waiting for a coyote.

Since I like new scopes (bad luck) I’d prob buy a Steiner as I’ve had a Leupold 5-25 and wasn’t overly impressed. Lock mech on the turrets were the best part on the Leupy.

If you’re set on used, man, S&B’s are sweet. I own a 5-25. Classy and great image. Never touched a March, but I bet they are just as good, but different. @Glassaholic, @Denys, and @koshkin have good things to say about March and S&B. Going to bed, but I’m sure others can link to their reviews.

 

[Glassaholic]

No Kahles?

Doesn't fit his price point... I guess a used K624i would, great scopes just lots of CA but it that doesn't bother you I really like them.

 

[Glassaholic]

What are you shooting at?

For a lighter weight option, a Nightforce 4-32 NX8 might be nice.

To help you winnow your list, first decide on a few things:

1. Locking elevation turret? Locking windage? Is covered windage ok?
2. How big of numerals on the turret do you need?
3. Diopter setting method: Fast focus/non locking, or slow, painful focus and fiddly locking? (Lol you can see my pref)
4. Numbers on parallax knob or numberless?
5. Mil or MOA?
6. Xmas tree or simple crosshair?
7. Really bright illumination, regular illum for dusk, or not needed?
8. Type of warranty: Lifetime? 10yr but must send to Germany? Etc.
9. Must it be black?
10. Do you like caps on the eyepiece? If so, are you ok with the whole eyepiece, including your caps, rotating as you change scope magnification? (That’s how NF Atacr models work. Their NX8 models work normally)

^^^ Fantastic questions right there. Sometimes answering the right question can help us in the decision making process.

 

[Nik H]

Doesn't fit his price point... I guess a used K624i would, great scopes just lots of CA but it that doesn't bother you I really like them.

One of my favorites despite the little bit of CA

 

[PotbellyVandal]

This is all great info and much appreciated. It seems like a consensus here looks like the following in particular order -

1) Steiner T6XI - 5-30x56
Pros: all the features I’ve asked for, reticle options I like, great price @ sub 2k
Cons: feedback of tight eye box and turret issues

2) March 4.5-28x52
Pros: Majority of features asked for (no locks on older model, shuriken on newer), I really like the reticle options.
Cons: Price for newer version with locking turrets, warranty timing if repair required

3) S&B 5-25x56
Pros: Time tested and all features I’ve asked for depending on model. Great reticle options. Ability to convert turret options if desired in the future. Possible to find used in my price range.
Cons: New is likely out of budget. Lots of various sub-models to decipher.


So here’s a curveball add-on question - would it be worth considering a budget option (1k range) while squirreling away some extra cash to buy a new alpha class scope with all the bells and whistles? Then having the budget option as a backup.
If I went this route it opens up some incredible options in the future while possibly still giving me decent usable glass in the interim.
Thoughts?

 

[mrtoyz]

Doesn't fit his price point... I guess a used K624i would, great scopes just lots of CA but it that doesn't bother you I really like them.

Interesting. Don’t remember CA unlike every Steiner I looked through

 

[Glassaholic]

Interesting. Don’t remember CA unlike every Steiner I looked through

The Steiner T5Xi were pretty bad in the CA dept (T6Xi much better), worse than Kahles that's for sure. CA is highly dependent on various conditions and some aren't bothered by it, it bugs the heck out of me but others not so much so this is definitely a YMMV situation.

 

[mrtoyz]

This is all great info and much appreciated. It seems like a consensus here looks like the following in particular order -

1) Steiner T6XI - 5-30x56
Pros: all the features I’ve asked for, reticle options I like, great price @ sub 2k
Cons: feedback of tight eye box and turret issues

2) March 4.5-28x52
Pros: Majority of features asked for (no locks on older model, shuriken on newer), I really like the reticle options.
Cons: Price for newer version with locking turrets, warranty timing if repair required

3) S&B 5-25x56
Pros: Time tested and all features I’ve asked for depending on model. Great reticle options. Ability to convert turret options if desired in the future. Possible to find used in my price range.
Cons: New is likely out of budget. Lots of various sub-models to decipher.


So here’s a curveball add-on question - would it be worth considering a budget option (1k range) while squirreling away some extra cash to buy a new alpha class scope with all the bells and whistles? Then having the budget option as a backup.
If I went this route it opens up some incredible options in the future while possibly still giving me decent usable glass in the interim.
Thoughts?

FWIW.
$1k scope? Nope. Stick with your plan. This 2500 new/used range will do everything you want and more. Used is a good idea to get the best scope for the least $$.
My 2 cents would be:
1. Used PM2 with Grid or Gen2XR
2. Used ATACR 7-35 Milxt
3. Used Zeiss S5 (pretty sure I’ve seen some go to 25’ish)
4. Used Kahles
5. Zeiss s3

 

[Glassaholic]

This is all great info and much appreciated. It seems like a consensus here looks like the following in particular order -

1) Steiner T6XI - 5-30x56
Pros: all the features I’ve asked for, reticle options I like, great price @ sub 2k
Cons: feedback of tight eye box and turret issues

2) March 4.5-28x52
Pros: Majority of features asked for (no locks on older model, shuriken on newer), I really like the reticle options.
Cons: Price for newer version with locking turrets, warranty timing if repair required

3) S&B 5-25x56
Pros: Time tested and all features I’ve asked for depending on model. Great reticle options. Ability to convert turret options if desired in the future. Possible to find used in my price range.
Cons: New is likely out of budget. Lots of various sub-models to decipher.

I think that is a fair summary although where did you hear the Steiner 5-30x56 has a tight eyebox? I have not personally seen this scope yet, but I've had the 3-18x56 that was very forgiving, I would be shocked if the 5-30x56 was worse.

So here’s a curveball add-on question - would it be worth considering a budget option (1k range) while squirreling away some extra cash to buy a new alpha class scope with all the bells and whistles? Then having the budget option as a backup.
If I went this route it opens up some incredible options in the future while possibly still giving me decent usable glass in the interim.
Thoughts?

Well that's really up to you, you can also do one of the scopes above and still squirrel away some cash and just sell the above scope when it comes time, especially if you buy used from the classifieds, you will likely not lose much with regard to resale depending on how much you beat up your gear.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Burris XTR Pro

Steiner T6Xi

GPO GPOTAC 6x

Element Theos

Athlon Cronus BTR GEN2 4.5-29x56

Zeiss LRP

Swarovski Z5i

It's our pleasure, as a long standing supporting vendor here, to discuss the different available options and special opportunities with you. Please give a call, 516-217-1000, when you have the time. Thanks

 

[PotbellyVandal]

@Glassaholic that feedback was from Connor via PM. Same with regards to the turrets having issues.

 

[FuhQ]

Doesn't fit his price point... I guess a used K624i would, great scopes just lots of CA but it that doesn't bother you I really like them.

Have you looked through a current gen K624i? I haven’t noticed any CA in all 3 of my current gen k-series scopes.

 

[FuhQ]

Leopold is trash Fudd scopes…Avoid anything with an L on the side of it.

 

[Glassaholic]

@Glassaholic that feedback was from Connor via PM. Same with regards to the turrets having issues.

It's certainly possible but I would be really surprised if that was the case, maybe post a question over on the Steiner T6Xi thread and ask if other owners of the 5-30x56 have experienced the same.

 

[Glassaholic]

Have you looked through a current gen K624i? I haven’t noticed any CA in all 3 of my current gen k-series scopes.

I have not, to be honest I had no idea they were still manufacturing this scope, I thought it was discontinued after the 5-25 was released... That said, it is not out of the ordinary for manufacturer's to quietly "fix" later versions of scopes after initial release. Good to hear they may have cleaned up the CA

 

[Glassaholic]

Leopold is trash Fudd scopes…Avoid anything with an L on the side of it.

I have been a strong critic of Leupold as they have seemed to be very "behind the times" with a lot of releases, but I would not say they are trash and plenty of non-Fudd's shooting them. That said, they could do much better with keeping a closer ear to the shooting community they serve...

 

[carbonbased]

So here’s a curveball add-on question - would it be worth considering a budget option (1k range) while squirreling away some extra cash to buy a new alpha class scope with all the bells and whistles?

Here’s how I’d approach that question.

Find a dark quiet spot. Lay down. Relax.

Think about this hobby. Imagine yourself going to range. Imagine missing a lot lol. Imagine hitting the targets. Imagine your bank account draining. Think about who will do this hobby with you (for me, nobody ). Imagine potential rifle storage issues. Etc.

Just let your mind float…the good…the bad…the blah…the why are you thinking of doing this in the first place…whatever happens, don’t try to control it…

Do you hear a little voice in the background saying something like, “Not surrre I will like thisssss”?

If so, buy a cheaper scope. See if you indeed like the hobby.

If all you feel is happiness, maybe buy the more expensive scope.

The March will be harder to sell if you pull the ripcord and bug outta the Hide haha

 

[FuhQ]

I have not, to be honest I had no idea they were still manufacturing this scope, I thought it was discontinued after the 5-25 was released... That said, it is not out of the ordinary for manufacturer's to quietly "fix" later versions of scopes after initial release. Good to hear they may have cleaned up the CA

They did update it when they dropped the K525i, according to a rep I talked to. He said it’s basically the same as a 525, just different magnification and tube design. Same glass quality and coatings. You should check one out. I got mine from Euro, I know they have the most current gen. I’d be interested to hear your thighs compared to your previous experience with the older version.

 

[FuhQ]

I have been a strong critic of Leupold as they have seemed to be very "behind the times" with a lot of releases, but I would not say they are trash and plenty of non-Fudd's shooting them. That said, they could do much better with keeping a closer ear to the shooting community they serve...

I know, they’re not terrible by any means, but my gripes are mostly from the same place as you…The “behind the times” designs and the fact that they go for lightweight hunting scopes, and lighter weight means the weight was shaved from somewhere…Which usually means more fragile internals, sort of like how Swarovski has excellent glass, but very crappy turrets, and extremely lightweight and fragile internals. If they were to beef up the internals and re-engineer the turrets, they could make a decent crossover scope.

 

[Glassaholic]

They did update it when they dropped the K525i, according to a rep I talked to. He said it’s basically the same as a 525, just different magnification and tube design. Same glass quality and coatings. You should check one out. I got mine from Euro, I know they have the most current gen. I’d be interested to hear your thighs compared to your previous experience with the older version.

I think I need to, I've wanted to check out the new (now old) K525i DLR with wide angle eyepiece, but of course now they have their new K328i with a really wonky design but quite intriguing. Since I don't have a relationship with Kahles I need to buy these scopes so will wait until initial reports come out. Anyway, back to the K624i you know have my curiosity piqued because if the glass is updated (or better aligned) that could really make the K624i a great option for those wanting to save a bit. It wasn't that long ago that the K624i dominated the PRS circuit (well I guess it was, but it doesn't feel like it )

 

[PotbellyVandal]

Here’s how I’d approach that question.

Find a dark quiet spot. Lay down. Relax.

Think about this hobby. Imagine yourself going to range. Imagine missing a lot lol. Imagine hitting the targets. Imagine your bank account draining. Think about who will do this hobby with you (for me, nobody ). Imagine potential rifle storage issues. Etc.

Just let your mind float…the good…the bad…the blah…the why are you thinking of doing this in the first place…whatever happens, don’t try to control it…

Do you hear a little voice in the background saying something like, “Not surrre I will like thisssss”?

If so, buy a cheaper scope. See if you indeed like the hobby.

If all you feel is happiness, maybe buy the more expensive scope.

The March will be harder to sell if you pull the ripcord and bug outta the Hide haha

This is probably the best advice in the thread.

 

[carbonbased]

This is probably the best advice in the thread.

Hey man, thanks!

I definitely have got in too deep too fast in hobbies I got into to distract myself from something else. Or just because of pure gear fetish.

It’s a way to figure out what really is important.

Another way is to think about it immediately after masterbating lol.

The male mind at that point is more like a practical woman’s than an impulsive hot-blooded man’s. Lasts for about 2 min

 

[PotbellyVandal]

@carbonbased I definitely dive into the deep end with anything I do. I like fishing and I’m always looking at and buying new gear. It’s a habit that I fully admit to being a gear whore. I’m also all about a good deal for a quality product so I have to balance it out with needs vs wants vs but it would be nice.

 

[blue_ridge]

@carbonbased I definitely dive into the deep end with anything I do. I like fishing and I’m always looking at and buying new gear. It’s a habit that I fully admit to being a gear whore. I’m also all about a good deal for a quality product so I have to balance it out with needs vs wants vs but it would be nice.

Tagging in. So what was the final outcome? Lots of good advice given.

I would add the venerable Vortex AMG as a more budget friendly option. You can find them $1400-1650 used. They are lighter than most. Lots of bang for the buck.

 

[PotbellyVandal]

I haven't quite made up my mind yet. Still waiting on a few things. I just started a new job with much better pay so I may increase my budget a fair amount and get an Alpha class optic. Got to wait a little and see how things play out.