Rifle Scopes Scope Snob in remission

[D_TROS]

I recently shot the NRL match in NE. Was a pretty great match with lots of fun staged. This was my first match not using either S&B, USO, March, Steiner or Vortex this year. (or for the past 5 years for that matter.)

Just this year I had some bills so I sold my S&B, USO, and Vortex..

SO this is my first match with the Burris XTR2 4-20 and H59 rect. With 20 moa base on the Kelbly Atlas action, I have 18 mils of up left for my little pea shooter 6BR. This is my first tree rect scope and my opinion is still up on these cluttered messes. I will admit the stages I held over, it was boringly easy to do so. I did noticed a step down in glass from my S&B. But im not sure if its enough to say I would have been in the top 5 with my S&B...Overall I was impressed and is exactly why I keep buying these XTR2's...1/4 the price of S&B and 95% of the performance. Keeps the wife happy also.

This match was shot in overcast skies and a TON of wind. I was very happy to pull out a top 10 with this scope. Esp considering that on the 4 long range stages, I had a stellar 6 hits...that's 6 hits and 34 misses ugh...I don't blame the scope or rifle...just the nut behind the bolt. baaa.

Regards,
DT

 

[MotorOilMcCall]

Nice post. Makes me not regret going with a Bushy XRS instead of something twice the price...

Out of curiosity, on the long range stages, how was everyone else doing compared to your 6 hits? In really windy conditions, that could be quite good.

 

[D_TROS]

...

Out of curiosity, on the long range stages, how was everyone else doing compared to your 6 hits? In really windy conditions, that could be quite good.

The 223 shooter in my squad had a higher score on them then me... hahahahhhhhh


DT

 

[Rthur]

DT, you should do something with that stock to try and get a little patriotic for christ sakes. lol

R

 

[steve123]

I recently shot the NRL match in NE. Was a pretty great match with lots of fun staged. This was my first match not using either S&B, USO, March, Steiner or Vortex this year. (or for the past 5 years for that matter.)

Just this year I had some bills so I sold my S&B, USO, and Vortex..

SO this is my first match with the Burris XTR2 4-20 and H59 rect. With 20 moa base on the Kelbly Atlas action, I have 18 mils of up left for my little pea shooter 6BR. This is my first tree rect scope and my opinion is still up on these cluttered messes. I will admit the stages I held over, it was boringly easy to do so. I did noticed a step down in glass from my S&B. But im not sure if its enough to say I would have been in the top 5 with my S&B...Overall I was impressed and is exactly why I keep buying these XTR2's...1/4 the price of S&B and 95% of the performance. Keeps the wife happy also.

This match was shot in overcast skies and a TON of wind. I was very happy to pull out a top 10 with this scope. Esp considering that on the 4 long range stages, I had a stellar 6 hits...that's 6 hits and 34 misses ugh...I don't blame the scope or rifle...just the nut behind the bolt. baaa.


View attachment 6885604

Regards,
DT

I'm guessing you couldn't see/tell where the misses went so you couldn't correct for them??? Probably large fluctuations with the wind, both combined???

The new formula is 6.5 BRX with 150 SMK, JK, I suppose there is no perfect answer.

How come you went away from the 6.5 Addiction, if that was the one?

I use H59 a lot, you'll probably grow to like it over time.

Start shooting your Anschutz PCP at 50Y, that gets a bit nutty with a 6ftlb air rifle in the wind.

 

[ICU22250]

I recently shot the NRL match in NE. Was a pretty great match with lots of fun staged. This was my first match not using either S&B, USO, March, Steiner or Vortex this year. (or for the past 5 years for that matter.)

Just this year I had some bills so I sold my S&B, USO, and Vortex..

SO this is my first match with the Burris XTR2 4-20 and H59 rect. With 20 moa base on the Kelbly Atlas action, I have 18 mils of up left for my little pea shooter 6BR. This is my first tree rect scope and my opinion is still up on these cluttered messes. I will admit the stages I held over, it was boringly easy to do so. I did noticed a step down in glass from my S&B. But im not sure if its enough to say I would have been in the top 5 with my S&B...Overall I was impressed and is exactly why I keep buying these XTR2's...1/4 the price of S&B and 95% of the performance. Keeps the wife happy also.

This match was shot in overcast skies and a TON of wind. I was very happy to pull out a top 10 with this scope. Esp considering that on the 4 long range stages, I had a stellar 6 hits...that's 6 hits and 34 misses ugh...I don't blame the scope or rifle...just the nut behind the bolt. baaa.




View attachment 6885604

Regards,
DT

Great shooting! Although I might question the 95% comment, maybe more like 85-90% and it's all got to do with glass quality.. The Burris does track great though and their reticles aren't bad either..

 

[dirthead1]

Sir, I commend you and wish you success in your scope-briety. I wish that I had such will power, but step 1 is admitting you have a problem, and that’s where I am.

 

[ICU22250]

Sir, I commend you and wish you success in your scope-briety. I wish that I had such will power, but step 1 is admitting you have a problem, and that’s where I am.

Hahahaha, alright... you ain't right man..

 

[Gohring65]

I have the 4-20 SCR mil.
I’m glad I bought it, it’s a robust scope. Glass is ok, my old Bushy Elite 6-24x has slightly better glass.

 

[ICU22250]

Sir, I commend you and wish you success in your scope-briety. I wish that I had such will power, but step 1 is admitting you have a problem, and that’s where I am.

I think we all have a problem in one way or another, if it ain't high dollar optics, then it's gonna be rifles, rings, reloading components or some shit.. Me and you both have a problem friend...

 

[SRPowah]

As much as I love my Tier 1 optics, I still enjoy shooting through my good ol' SWFA 3-15 and that keeps me somewhat satisfied to where I don't drop 3k on glass for every rifle..

I say somewhat because the SWFA was replaced by a NF 4-16.

FML.

 

[240Weatherby]

I remember seeing that rifle over their, nice rig. I had a little better luck on the long-range stuff except for that dang Kudi Safari stuff on stage 1 and whatever it was day two, It kicked my butt. This was my first NRL match and my second 2 day match ever. Pulled 18th place and made my weekend.

 

[Ledzep]

I recently sold my $3k scope and replaced it with a Gen2 PST. Pocketed the difference and haven't looked back. Is the failure rate statistically higher with the lower priced stuff? yes. Can I see some fog or distortion at max zoom? yes. Does it matter for hitting a painted steel plate? Nope... Tracks true, holds zero, and is clear enough.

 

[samnev]

I did the same thing although my scope of choice was NightForce. I'm more than satisfied with my 3 XTR's with the SCR reticles. 2 5-25X's and 1 4-16X. Are they as good as Nightforce, no but certainly good enough and keeps the wife happy.

 

[D_TROS]

I'm guessing you couldn't see/tell where the misses went so you couldn't correct for them??? Probably large fluctuations with the wind, both combined???
...

How come you went away from the 6.5 Addiction, if that was the one?

I use H59 a lot, you'll probably grow to like it over time.

Start shooting your Anschutz PCP at 50Y, that gets a bit nutty with a 6ftlb air rifle in the wind.

Hey Steve. The targets were in a corn field on tall t-posts. big targets which was disconcerting, but no way to see splash on misses. Which for a shooter is very tough to decide what to do next.

I shot a 6.5GWI (pretty much the addiction with a 30* shoulder) for the last 2 years. I went through 4 barrels and I had to switch back to a little 6 for couple reasons. First, the only way I could handle 49 gr of powder behind a 130 was with a brake. That continual hammering of the concussion gives me wicked bad headaches by the end of each day. Second, the continual switch to more barricade stuff at close range really eliminated any advantage of the big boomer. ha.

I havnt shot the PCP outside. Just bought jakes 22 NRL steel package tho to set up in the backard for the PCP. what ranges do you recommend the steel set up for it?

Great shooting! Although I might question the 95% comment, maybe more like 85-90% and it's all got to do with glass quality.. The Burris does track great though and their reticles aren't bad either..

Hmmm that's an interesting pt. I wish someone with the ability to ttest the diff could time in. I would not for a second say the XTR2 is 85% of the S&B...well pending the conditions. In the normal sun like we shoot 90% of the time, I would say the noticeable diff is like 5%. In low light and bad weather, I would prob agree the XTR2 is 85% of the top tier...hmmm

Sir, I commend you and wish you success in your scope-briety. I wish that I had such will power, but step 1 is admitting you have a problem, and that’s where I am.

HAHA! I am not there. Bills kicked my bottom. I still have a March (on my PCP for 10y parallax), Minox (On my LR rig), and a Steiner M5 (on my Rimfire). I hope I don't have to sell any more...

...Pulled 18th place and made my weekend.

Very nice. Top 20's are hawt.

... Is the failure rate statistically higher with the lower priced stuff? yes. ...Tracks true, holds zero, and is clear enough.

The low failure rate of the XTR2's is the reason I use them. I would not for a second chance using a scope that has anything near something considered a failure rate at a match that costs $1000 to go to. Tooo much risk there. The list is small of scopes with very low failure rates.


Last, I lold at the comment (forgot to quote it) about being more patriotic color. haha. America is my favorite color. I joke with my wife that AMerica sponsors me. My usual rifle stock color is primarily blue.

Regards,
DT

 

[hereinaz]

Nice review. I am stuck in the Burris XTRii range, this will keep me from spending more...

 

[Squat]

I'm guessing you couldn't see/tell where the misses went so you couldn't correct for them??? ?

I use H59 a lot, you'll probably grow to like it over time.

.

I agree, i dont understand the folks saying they are so cluttered, most of the guys I know that engaged 2 legs love them. Unless you are trying to engage a 1000yard tgt at 4x or min zoom, then ok I'll buy it. But if you have it so 12 mil is visible you can pretty much put a 12 in board at 1000y and have plenty of room to move the dot around the target.

They are stupid easy on followup shots if you are in a position to see the impact, some stages setup positions just make it hard. The biggest plus i can think of is the target lock. I dont need to look up to ensure i dialed correctly anymore, taking my eyes off the target, put the target on my hold verify its correct and send it.
The other plus is that if I want to use a different round in a match, I can dial that zero, leave it, use my holds then move back to my original round without having to think. IE, if one decided to use a mix of standard match and flatlines, dial your flatline zero then hold as normal, back to standard and continue to hold as normal. Just a tad easier than.... oh my flatline 1000 is 7.8/9 plus i need to pull a mil off it.. so i need to hold 6.9... To me thats too much math, i'd rather dial the 1 mil ( one mil is easy its usually .8 or 1.2) and hold the correct mil. <-- then again I am a simple knuckle dragger

 

[Squat]

I recently shot the NRL match in NE. Was a pretty great match with lots of fun staged. This was my first match not using either S&B, USO, March, Steiner or Vortex this year. (or for the past 5 years for that matter.)

Just this year I had some bills so I sold my S&B, USO, and Vortex..

SO this is my first match with the Burris XTR2 4-20 and H59 rect. With 20 moa base on the Kelbly Atlas action, I have 18 mils of up left for my little pea shooter 6BR. This is my first tree rect scope and my opinion is still up on these cluttered messes. I will admit the stages I held over, it was boringly easy to do so. I did noticed a step down in glass from my S&B. But im not sure if its enough to say I would have been in the top 5 with my S&B...Overall I was impressed and is exactly why I keep buying these XTR2's...1/4 the price of S&B and 95% of the performance. Keeps the wife happy also.

This match was shot in overcast skies and a TON of wind. I was very happy to pull out a top 10 with this scope. Esp considering that on the 4 long range stages, I had a stellar 6 hits...that's 6 hits and 34 misses ugh...I don't blame the scope or rifle...just the nut behind the bolt. baaa.




Regards,
DT

Nice job and I LOVE the rifle. You just need a F YEAH on the hat!

 

[steve123]

DTROS quote -I havnt shot the PCP outside. Just bought jakes 22 NRL steel package tho to set up in the backard for the PCP. what ranges do you recommend the steel set up for it?

At 50Y, with that low energy level/6ftlb at muzzle, in the wind, it's very very challenging. I bet yours will still shoot sub 1/2" at that distance though, if it were shot indoors. That's what's fun about such low power and a .023 BC pellet, is they blow in the wind like crazy but in a rifle like yours you've still got extreme accuracy. The JSB 7.9's or 8.4's are the pellets you'll want to use instead of flat nose pellets.

Set up some surveyors tape for flags, which makes it so much easier, the slightest change in direction or speed will net a miss on 2 moa sized steel, even closer in like at 25Y.

All you mentioned makes total sense. I hate it when I can't see where I miss!!! I hate it worse when I can't locate the targets. My eyes are getting really bad, last year at a NRL match, a stage which would have helped my score immensely if I did well, a high round count holdover stage, I couldn't see any of the targets thus zeroing the stage. It was so discouraging I quit going to big matches.

For whatever reason I can see much better closer, like at a 22 match. I'm happy to report that this old guy, last Sunday, won our regional high desert southwest NRL22 match. At least I still kinda got "it", lol.

 

[nfoley]

Nice Dorgan!! I love seeing this kind of thing. You were probably shooting with Nick and his (borrowed) 223? He finished high also.
Goes to show you it really is the shooter.
My son's 6.5x47 is wearing a burris 5-25 xtrii (cerakoted with American flag - you'd love it). He's so busy competing with archery that he hasn't shot much but when he does has no issues. Kicked my butt on a long range stage last time we shot together!

 

[Noles77]

I run one on my .300 winny taken it to the mile with no real problems other than mother nature i like it, also put a veracity on my .308 to save coin and does well also

 

[Glassaholic]

I recently sold my $3k scope and replaced it with a Gen2 PST. Pocketed the difference and haven't looked back. Is the failure rate statistically higher with the lower priced stuff? yes. Can I see some fog or distortion at max zoom? yes. Does it matter for hitting a painted steel plate? Nope... Tracks true, holds zero, and is clear enough.

That about sums it up right there, the bar has been raised over the past few years with the lower end scopes both optically and mechanically. Are they as good as the top tier, no they are not, but they are getting very close to what used to be the second tier. Someone can purchase a scope in the $1000 range now that they can feel confident will perform admirably. The Burris XTR II has a great track record for being a solid performer mechanically and very good optically. The PST II is brand new and hasn't been out for even a year, the DMR II a little over a year but they seem to be holding their own.

DT - you said you have a 4-20 and I used to have a 4-20, it had a strange optical anomaly that caused eye fatigue pretty easily, birddog and others have pointed out that their 4-20's do not exhibit this behavior. Outside of this issue I really liked the 4-20, since you've had so much time with yours have you noticed anything similar?

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Your rooftop pic up there looks like Vale.

CONX Media snapped a pic of me on that same stage. It turned out pretty good.

Dear lord... I can only dream of a place to shoot like that. Here in the northeast our ranges are increasingly being surrounded by expensive homes and liberal "neighbors" that hate noise, guns, and our very existance.

 

[D_TROS]

DTROS quote -I havnt shot the PCP outside. Just bought jakes 22 NRL steel package tho to set up in the backard for the PCP. what ranges do you recommend the steel set up for it?

At 50Y..... a .023 BC pellet, is they blow in the wind like crazy but in a rifle like yours you've still got extreme accuracy. The JSB 7.9's or 8.4's are the pellets you'll want to use instead of flat nose pellets.

...

.... It was so discouraging I quit going to big matches.

For whatever reason I can see much better closer, like at a 22 match. I'm happy to report that this old guy, last Sunday, won our regional high desert southwest NRL22 match. At least I still kinda got "it", lol.

2 things. First, awesome job on the 22 nrl win. are you going to the championship? I would love to but the major matches have priority. what rifle did you shoot? an annie?

second and more importantly, that sucks about that bad stage. don't let it discourage you tho as I mentioned I hit 6/40 on the long range stages as well. I would love to shoot with you. Let me know if you ever hit up any major matches and we will see if we can squad together.

Nice Dorgan!! I love seeing this kind of thing. You were probably shooting with Nick and his (borrowed) 223? He finished high also.
Goes to show you it really is the shooter.
My son's 6.5x47 is wearing a burris 5-25 xtrii (cerakoted with American flag - you'd love it). He's so busy competing with archery that he hasn't shot much but when he does has no issues. Kicked my butt on a long range stage last time we shot together!

must...see...that...scope...lolol. and thanks brother. I have my moments haha.

Your rooftop pic up there looks like Vale.

CONX Media snapped a pic of me on that same stage. It turned out pretty good.

I don't know where Vale is, but yea looks like the same stage up in Idaho last St patricks day. I believe I was in your squad, but you prob don't remember me caus I was shooting a Vortex lol. oh that and I threw my back out on the next stage and had to quit shooting. Worst pain of my life lol.

... Someone can purchase a scope in the $1000 range now that they can feel confident will perform admirably. The Burris XTR II has a great track record for being a solid performer mechanically and very good optically. The PST II is brand new and hasn't been out for even a year, the DMR II a little over a year but they seem to be holding their own.

DT - you said you have a 4-20 and I used to have a 4-20, it had a strange optical anomaly that caused eye fatigue pretty easily, birddog and others have pointed out that their 4-20's do not exhibit this behavior. Outside of this issue I really liked the 4-20, since you've had so much time with yours have you noticed anything similar?

I have used the 4-20 A LOT on my 223 for carbine team matches and club matches and practice. More than 7 major matches, winning 2 of them with a couple 2nd place finishes. This one on my bolt rifle is brand new with the HOrus rect (this only match I have shot with it). I hate to because I know it tracks well, but I will be selling my old 4-20 to get another H59. So for roughly 4k+ rounds on these 2 scopes, I have not experienced anything I would call eye fatigue so that's weird. I am young tho so maybe that helps. I will say its def not as "easy" on the eyes as my S&B or MArch, but nothing is lol..

weird for sure. I had one older DMR. It was before they made sweeter (non locking bs) knobs and 10mil turrets and def improved the glass an no illum or zero stop. I also had the SWFA 5-20 and got the Burris 4-20. The burris XTR2 was the clear winner in almost all regards from glass, knobs, and rect of the 3 scopes so I sold the other 2 and have had no reason to go back. Ive stuck with the XTR2 since on my carbine and rimfire rifle (5-25).

I did recently get the Bushnel LRTSi 4-18 from GAP to compare to the 4-20. If it don't stack up I will be selling it. ha. Im hopeful they upped their game. That and Steiners new 4-16 I really want to try. The PST 2 and the DMR both look like great options...just getting sick of trying scopes. My ADDHD is starting to wear down. and my checkbook lol.

Regards,
DT

 

[Apnea]

2 things. First, awesome job on the 22 nrl win. are you going to the championship? I would love to but the major matches have priority. what rifle did you shoot? an annie?

second and more importantly, that sucks about that bad stage. don't let it discourage you tho as I mentioned I hit 6/40 on the long range stages as well. I would love to shoot with you. Let me know if you ever hit up any major matches and we will see if we can squad together.




must...see...that...scope...lolol. and thanks brother. I have my moments haha.




I don't know where Vale is, but yea looks like the same stage up in Idaho last St patricks day. I believe I was in your squad, but you prob don't remember me caus I was shooting a Vortex lol. oh that and I threw my back out on the next stage and had to quit shooting. Worst pain of my life lol.




I have used the 4-20 A LOT on my 223 for carbine team matches and club matches and practice. More than 7 major matches, winning 2 of them with a couple 2nd place finishes. This one on my bolt rifle is brand new with the HOrus rect (this only match I have shot with it). I hate to because I know it tracks well, but I will be selling my old 4-20 to get another H59. So for roughly 4k+ rounds on these 2 scopes, I have not experienced anything I would call eye fatigue so that's weird. I am young tho so maybe that helps. I will say its def not as "easy" on the eyes as my S&B or MArch, but nothing is lol..

weird for sure. I had one older DMR. It was before they made sweeter (non locking bs) knobs and 10mil turrets and def improved the glass an no illum or zero stop. I also had the SWFA 5-20 and got the Burris 4-20. The burris XTR2 was the clear winner in almost all regards from glass, knobs, and rect of the 3 scopes so I sold the other 2 and have had no reason to go back. Ive stuck with the XTR2 since on my carbine and rimfire rifle (5-25).

I did recently get the Bushnel LRTSi 4-18 from GAP to compare to the 4-20. If it don't stack up I will be selling it. ha. Im hopeful they upped their game. That and Steiners new 4-16 I really want to try. The PST 2 and the DMR both look like great options...just getting sick of trying scopes. My ADDHD is starting to wear down. and my checkbook lol.

Regards,
DT

Why is there lipstick on your elevation knob?

JK, but what is that red thing?

 

[steve123]

"""2 things. First, awesome job on the 22 nrl win. are you going to the championship? I would love to but the major matches have priority. what rifle did you shoot? an annie?

second and more importantly, that sucks about that bad stage. don't let it discourage you tho as I mentioned I hit 6/40 on the long range stages as well. I would love to shoot with you. Let me know if you ever hit up any major matches and we will see if we can squad together."""

Thanks I had a lot of fun that day! I used my trusty ole Anny 1827F biathlon rifle. I'm trying to go to the championship, family vacation planned about then so...but hopefully it'll work out.

I try not to get discouraged but at the same time I must face reality, that is that I can't see well enough to be competitive anymore, sad but true, and the rest of my body isn't much better. My favorite long range match so far is the SRM. Hopefully I can make it out this year sometime. I'll contact you to see if you might be going, that would be cool to finally meet you after all these years.

 

[pineoak]

I had an XTR2 5-25

The glass was absolutely unusable past 21x, but pretty good under 21x for the $

The issue was that my eye would fatigue and tear if looking through it for longer periods.

Okay to shoot with, but my scope is also my spotting scope for other shooters. Razor2, AMG, Premier, can look through them for long shooting strings all afternoon

I refused to spot for people with the XTR2 I had. Maybe it was a fluke, but I thought it wasn't for me. The scope tracked accurately though

 

[AMP!]

This is great to hear, and congrats on your placement! I’ve got a 4-20 XTR II as well and love it so far. Have always wondered about these top tier scopes but never used one. Just way out of my price range. I agree with the above comments about around 20X and higher on the 5-25 being pretty bad, which I previously had, and is why I’ve got the 4-20 now.
Hearing this makes me happy I have as nice of a scope as the XTR II and want of a better one even less.

 

[Possumpete]

I too have a 4-20 in scr mil since they basically came out. Love the mechanics on the scope,don't know if its me getting older or used to my better glass,but mine gives my eyes a fit at 20 power which I usually use the glass is pretty bad. I sent in in a few weeks ago and the said they removed internal debris and or repaired and recharged and fixed parallax,but it could be me but it seems like its worse now. Not bashing as I really got a lot of good out of this scope ,But has anyone thought the glass actually got worse with time,because I never thought it was awesome,but don't remember it being this bad at higher magnification.Still like the reticle for the most part and seems to track well for me.

 

[MakeSawdust]

I sent mine in after slipping on the ice and dropping my gun. It had some issues with optical clarity and would not hold zero. Mine was handled very quickly and the optical quality and other issues were fixed. It did however, have a very small piece of internal debris that is visible at under 6x and the locking ring that holds things together at the objective end has a broken or "stripped" notch where they put it back together. While they fixed the issues, it appears they were a little heavy handed. This was around 2 years ago. My friend just sent one in a few weeks ago because a piece of o-ring or something is stuck inside the parallax knob and it won't adjust all the way down to 50 yds. It springs back and is squishy. It is clearly not right when compared to several other examples of the scope. They sent it back and said nothing is wrong with it. Maybe the customer service is falling off a bit as sales increase, or maybe he just had someone that wasn't the most competent taking care of his case. I would rate my CS experience with them a couple of years ago as very good. It was quick and the scope came back working very well. Obviously, it didn't go that well for my friend. You might try getting ahold of them and see if they would take a look at it. The more I see of their CS the more I lose faith. I thought my initial experience was very good though.

 

[Big Bo]

I own 2 of the XTR II 5-25x50`s. No complaints.

 

[eklarsen]

Blasphemy.

 

[hypno02]

I like the xtrii series as well. Well designed optic. I don't own any though as the glass is just so piss poor.

 

[D_TROS]

Why is there lipstick on your elevation knob?

JK, but what is that red thing?

Im going to try to make custom BDC knobs to sell. Just R&D ha.

"... My favorite long range match so far is the SRM. Hopefully I can make it out this year sometime. I'll contact you to see if you might be going, that would be cool to finally meet you after all these years.

Also by far my favorite. It don't look like Ill make it there till maybe sept. Ill let you know.

I had an XTR2 5-25

The glass was absolutely unusable past 21x, but pretty good under 21x for the $

The issue was that my eye would fatigue and tear if looking through it for longer periods.

Okay to shoot with, but my scope is also my spotting scope for other shooters. Razor2, AMG, Premier, can look through them for long shooting strings all afternoon

I refused to spot for people with the XTR2 I had. Maybe it was a fluke, but I thought it wasn't for me. The scope tracked accurately though

You're comparing a $900 dollar scope to $2500+

That being said, I lold at the eye tear...come on now ;D

....The more I see of their CS the more I lose faith. I thought my initial experience was very good though.

I just sold my other 4-20 to a fellow on here as I want to get another with H59 rect. Ends up I dinged the bell (roughly 17 thou out of round) and the sunshade wont screw back on, even though I screwed it off. I told him I would take the scope back but he said he would deal with customer service. and I quote from him

" Send that in and we will make it work! Already got a return authorization for it. Asked about lens covers- said he would throw a set in the box when he sends it back. Now THAT is customer service!!!"

IMHO I think people cry when they send in their scopes to get fixed and there isn't anything wrong with them. Ive talked to several scope manufactures and this is the overwhelming consistent report - most scopes arnt broke, they are set up incorrectly or tested incorrectly. So when people get told they scope is fine and they don't get a new one for free, its to the internets crying.

Blasphemy.

IKR!!


It is funny tho the varience of XTR2 scope reviews that go from tearing ur eye to being as good as a Razor Gen2. Yes both of those reviews have been posted. (For the record Ive never seen one that would tear an eye OR one that is as good as my Gen2) Im starting to think that there was a run of scopes that had crap glass that got though. Sucks cause there are just as many that are great, esp for the price.


I want to post one more quote from the guy I sold my XTR2 to. It doesn't exactly mimic my thoughts but it is very close.
"First impression of the glass was “why did I ever buy a gen 2 razor?”

This is the reason I am using them on my match rifles. Mechically, as Killswitchengage said on his humbler tracking tests, they track boringly accurate. Optically, my eye is still intact

As mentioned on anther thread, even WJM mentioned his bad XTR2 and a later one he looked through had night and day different glass. Kinda lame and I hope Burris gets its consistency straightened out.

**Will report back on my new XTR2 with H59 as soon as it arrives. Ordered last week.

Regards,
DT

 

[ICU22250]

This is a good thing to hear, as the mechanics of the XTR2 are good, it's biggest down fall has always been the glass. When the glass prescription does get better, I would be interested in trying another one...

 

[reich10]

Got mine recently, XTRII 5-25 SCR Mil. Love it so far. I know it’s a fluke but I mounted the thing in the Burris Signature rings, didn’t touch the turrets and the first shot was 1 inch low. Haha.

I had a roommate in college that was on here all the time buying and selling/trading the tier 1 stuff, every brand you can think of, and I got to play with all of them. Great optics but for a guy with a $1000 budget it’s gotta be hard to beat. I will report back on here how everything turns out with it.

On top of all that they just look badass. No frills tough. My RPR 6 creed production rig.

 

[5RWill]

I recently sold my $3k scope and replaced it with a Gen2 PST. Pocketed the difference and haven't looked back. Is the failure rate statistically higher with the lower priced stuff? yes. Can I see some fog or distortion at max zoom? yes. Does it matter for hitting a painted steel plate? Nope... Tracks true, holds zero, and is clear enough.

Was going to say while i've never been behind the XTR II i'd whole heartedly run a Gen II PST. It's glass is phenomenal for the price. Clicks are great too.

I'll admit i think my friends have considered me an optics snob for some time. Though i like to think i'm pretty fair when judging optics, just picky and at this point know what i want. I also started out at least with the long range stuff with a nice optic. Given my recent endeavor of trying to find a suitable top shelf optic for myself this year, i've been running through scopes like Ford does trannys (that's a JK you ford guys), trying to make that leap. I've been behind my fair share of high quality optics in the last 12 months and still have yet to find the one to fit the bill for me personally, which is where extended use beyond just getting behind it for 30 minutes or so really comes into play.

Having said that it just isn't as clear cut as it was 10 years ago between high and low end. Yes there is a discernible difference, i'm not saying otherwise. But what is now considered "low end" or what have you is nearly on par if not exceeding early gen NXS' and gen I razors for nearly half the cost in terms of glass quality. That is a very large jump in performance from where this industry was back then.

I will say i've only been at a disadvantage once with a mid-tier optic in competition, to which i did need better glass then and there. My ERS on a KYL stage at 400yds. Last small circle was completely devoid of paint and recessed in shade, i honestly couldn't make it out. Even then that has been one of my favorite optics to date. Just a workhorse.

 

[samson7x]

I’m strongly considering either the 4-20 or 5-25, but it seems like I’m seeing more folks who went 4-20. Is that because the upper range clarity is poor on the 5-25 as I’ve also seen mentioned? Shooting will only be to 1000yds so I’ll be fine with either, but if the glass is poor above 20x on the 5-25, I’ll just save myself some cash and snag a 4-20.

 

[reich10]

I’m strongly considering either the 4-20 or 5-25, but it seems like I’m seeing more folks who went 4-20. Is that because the upper range clarity is poor on the 5-25 as I’ve also seen mentioned? Shooting will only be to 1000yds so I’ll be fine with either, but if the glass is poor above 20x on the 5-25, I’ll just save myself some cash and snag a 4-20.

People might have purchased the 4-20 to get the H591 Reticle. I believe that is the only option that has the H591.

 

[samson7x]

Well I just grabbed the 5-25 at SWFA tax sale. Couldn’t pass up the 20% off.

 

[YF12A]

To everyone on this thread from a long time lurker, I thank you for this wealth of unbiased information. Hopefully, in the near future, I will be able to do some long range shooting and want to upgrade some of my optics. It looks like the XTR is the stepping stone for me. I've been shooting for decades, just never had the places to shoot long. As also said above, I've watched the equipment just get better and better, time to take advantage of it. Love to try PRS but this 62 year old body won't let me. Thanks again to all.

 

[want2ride]

I have a little input on the XTR2 glass. I got my first one (3-15 g2b) last year in late winter. The glass was fantastic, very close to my brother's Steiner in glass quality. I liked it so much that I picked up another identical scope from a dealer that had apparently had it on the shelf a very long time, and I got it dirt cheap ($640) . I got it home and noticed that the glass was not nearly as clear as my first one. While I was disappointed, it was going on a hunting rig and it is great for that and still a large step above any of my other hunting scopes and not nearly bad enough to worry about.
I just recently (a few weeks ago) got another XTR2, but this time a 4-20 for my target rifle and again it has just beautiful glass.

I am wondering if the glass just varies that much or if it has just gotten better recently.

 

[D_TROS]

Just got back from the WY Gunworks match this weekend. After shooting like crap the first day and sitting in 32nd, I was really nervous about my load in my rifle (just did load workup with 95 gr Berger bullets)

At the beginning of the second day, I saw my groups on the very bottom edge of a target at 550, so I started to add .2 to all my data. I was able to claw up to a tie for 10th. Even tho I lost the tie breaker, Im claiming a B2B top 10 haha.

One thing that was nice, I never rally messed with the parallax knob. I know sometimes these "cheaper" scopes can have finicky adjustments. I put it at 500 and left it the whole weekend.

Other point Im noticing, at first the ele knob was almost hard to turn. After 2 matches, it is really starting to feel smooth and consistent like the grease loosened up or something. Im happy about that.

That Horus rect I felt for the first time was too cluttered. Maybe a few times I had misses I wasn't able to spot correctly to make adjustment on. Im not sure if that's the rect or bad mechanics shooting, but I do wish the tree was a little less cluttered. Having said that I sure didn't complain on the 8 stages I did holdovers lol. Something about cake and eating it I spose.


Regards,
DT

 

[steve123]

Good recovery man!!!

It looks like a dusty place there. Maybe you hit in rocks or in a sagebrush causing a few no calls??

Were you using the 6BR this time too?

 

[5RWill]

That Horus rect I felt for the first time was too cluttered. Maybe a few times I had misses I wasn't able to spot correctly to make adjustment on. Im not sure if that's the rect or bad mechanics shooting, but I do wish the tree was a little less cluttered. Having said that I sure didn't complain on the 8 stages I did holdovers lol. Something about cake and eating it I spose.


Regards,
DT

Pretty much the conclusion i came to with the H59 not to mention i was a lot slower with it then a traditional tree reticle.

 

[D_TROS]

Good recovery man!!!

It looks like a dusty place there. Maybe you hit in rocks or in a sagebrush causing a few no calls??

Were you using the 6BR this time too?

Thanks Steve. Again I suffered on LR stages...im beginning to believe **gasp** I need more prone practice lol
BUT yes 6br and I should point out that I have .5 mil more wind at 1k than my buddy shooting 6.5x47, while being over a mil flatter. Weird. I cant wait for my 105 Bergers to ship, but these little 95 grainers are pretty sweet...

Pretty much the conclusion i came to with the H59 not to mention i was a lot slower with it then a traditional tree reticle.

Curious what tree rect you like? I really like the Minox one, but no others come to mind off hand that arnt cluttered...maybe the bushnel or G2XR but I think those 2 need more detail...


Regards,
DT

 

[5RWill]

Curious what tree rect you like? I really like the Minox one, but no others come to mind off hand that arnt cluttered...maybe the bushnel or G2XR but I think those 2 need more detail...


Regards,
DT

SKMR3 is my favorite that i've used even though the MR4 from Minox is basically an upgraded SKMR3 i dislike the spacing in the center going on the pictures i've seen of it. I imagine the SKMR will eventually get it's vertical 2/10th hash marks like the MR4. The SKMR3's thickness is perfect to me, not overly thin and not overly thick like the GAP milling, H59, or G2/3. The hash marks are also extremely subtle. It's weird to explain but getting behind it on a holdover stage and putting it on steel is just awesome. Doesn't obscure much of anything.

 

[D_TROS]

Well this is turning into a, follow me as I shoot matches with the new scope, thread.

Last week on Wed, I had a friend not able to make the KS match. I couldn't pass on a free match entry sooo...

I shot the KS PRS SpearPoint Ranch match. Wow what a great field match that reminded me of PRS style matches 5+ yrs ago. What was more amazing was shooting 17 stages day 1 then only another 5 the next day. We were done with awards and on the way home after eating by 1 oclock.
This was my first 2 day match shooting a tree-oh-ate (308) ever and first shooting the 308 since Raton in 2010. Got to admit it was pretty tough dialing as much wind as elevation on a target inside of 300 yards

?

After a strong showing the first day, I was pretty excited to come away with a top 20 overall and top 308 in the match (oh well for my top 10 streak lol). Only being 4 pts from 12th and 6 more from a top 10, Im pretty happy with the way my baby (Kelbly smithed 308) shot. Especially considering the wind and constant rain the first day. wow-we. The rain and mud didnt slow down my gear one bit so that was a relief!

I have never shot my 308 without a suppressor and I also don't own a 308 brake so I had a friend bring one to the match. See let me borrow one of his Owens Armory Brakes as I didnt want to use a 12" 338 can on a 28" barrel. That brake shrunk my groups from 3/4" to 1/4" no joke. Also shooting over 260 rounds on the weekend, I wasnt a bit sore. I do believe Jim wont be seeing this brake again hehehe.



The best part about shooting this weekend is I knew I wouldnt have time to load, So I grabbed some ammo from The Hunting Shack (HSM Ammo). I tested both their match 155's and 178's and the 178s won out with better groups as well as single digit SD's. Im not affiliated with them...but I want to be lol. Im over reloading if this kind of accuracy can be found from factory ammo. I may take up factory ammo from here on out!!


Now, couple other things noted on the scope. I broke the crap flip covers on stage 4 of match. I wish companies wouldn't ship crap items just to fill a bill. Those flip caps are a joke.

Second, shooting a 308, Ive never had to deal with wind like this before. I usually dialed at least the wind for the first target in a string of targets, and that was usually around 1 mil and held for the rest. I never dialed less than .5 mill on a stage, with the most wind over 3 mils. I was very happy to absolutely trust the wind dialing on every stage. Oddly enough, on the very last stage was the only stage I didn't trust my wind/ele call (I thought I saw my first shot miss high left - thanks clutter rect) and after missing 8 straight times on the last stage of the match, I went back to my original hold and finished the match with 2 hits holding over at 750 yards. Ugh. Mental mistakes kill ya.

hashtag308forlife
hashtagckye-pod
hashtagmywifeismybiggestfan
(Link: https://www.hsmammunition.com/)

Regards,
DT

 

[koshkin]

Nice shooting! You should try Aadland scope caps. They are as close to indestructible as I've seen.

ILya

 

[D_TROS]

Whelp another match down. The JC Steel Match in WA was phenomenal. We got to shoot out of a helicopter, moving truck, and over 250 rnds on the weekend. GREAT match if anyone every wants to go. I keep saying at each match its the best one Ive shot all year, but this one really was fantastic.

This scope is a love hate lol. Love the scope. Hate the rect. Horus allows ZERO hold under capabilities. I like holding under as much as over and there are no marks for precision above the main horizontal. It does go up to +3 mils with marks at the even 1-2-3 marks then stops. I can usually get around this but on one stage.

This stage has 2 targets, one of them hidden (bullet drops over a hill and hits IF your ref pt is legit.) My squad did the math to hold under 5.5 mils from a visible point. 5.5.....Scope goes to 3. COF is shoot target you can see, then hidden target, then repeat for 10 rnds alternating. both targets right at 500 yards and the visible one is big as a house. I finally figure out if I leave the turret at "0" I can hold over 2.5 mils for visible target, then from my reference point, it is a perfect 3 mils (top of rect) to hidden target. I was a little flustered figuring the math and hating on the rect when my turn came up. I hit the hidden target every time....I forgot to hold over for the big, large, easy, generous, titanic, full size, gimme, feel good target... Not once. Not twice. But THREE times

Guess I cant blame the rect...but man I hate mental mistakes. Cost me an easy top 10. Another stage, not rect related, and first one for the second day, I dialed a mil of wind the wrong direction. Never figured it out till I was done shooting. I hate playing the "if" game, but if I took the low score in our squad on that stage, I would have been in the top 5. "If" I didn't do either mistake I would have been 3rd. Ughhghghghgh...hahah.

Cant complain with a 12th place tho out of nearly 150 shooters. Super happy for that! And I got a fantastic pair of Nikon freakin Laser Rangefinders. I cant believe the support companies put out there in theis sport. Its amazing.

Regards,
DT