Rifle Scopes Scope Suggestions for Newbie

[oubeta]

Guys I'm overwhelmed with information from searching about all the differences in optics.

I'm wanting to get into doing some long range type tactical matches.(600-800)
We are taking a 4 day 'sniper basics' class in a few months and
I'm wanting a good quality scope to learn on.
It will go on a REPR or OBR 20" and my budget is around $1500+-.

What reticle would you suggest for a newbie for ease of use?
From searching it should like I want a FFP MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA, correct?
I would think most of the time I would be suing a laser range finder, but I would like to have to option (during the class) to range a target.

Is one easier to use than the other? I've been looking at the NF's, but it appears that most aren't FFP.
The Vortex PST's look like a good option.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

 

[learjet]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

if u have signed up for a class, id contact the instructor and see what they recomend. those guys have seen everything, and have seen alot of stuff fail.

gl!

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

You'll never regret buying the best glass you can afford, While the FFP feature is very nice, and very convinient, I dont think it is a must. The MIL/MIL, MOA/MOA feature you mentioned however is a covinience I wouldn't do without.
For your 1500 budget, you should be able to find a good nightforce, or even a leupold. The PST is a great option that will have all the bells and whistles you are looking for as well, with the added benefit of being a little less money. I'm waiting for one myself.
If ever you were gonna splurge in life, let it be on your guns, and especially your optic.

 

[DirtDart]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

Nightforce 3.5x15x50 with matching retical and turrets, zero stops are nice but it will put you over budget(1650).It is does not have ffp but put it on 15 and you can range with out the added cost. You could go with the 5.5 x 25 but 25 is most of the time to much. When the mirage gets kicking you may trouble with your sight picture. Then if you have to range a target at a lower power than 25 there is a formula that you can use to rang at a lower power. I have a nxs 3.5 x 15 x 50 and I love it.

 

[Target In Sight]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

Its actually 5.5-22x. Now, 22x is good to have, and you can use 11 to range as well, just have the ranged distance divided by 2.

I would recommend NF also, and either the 3.5-15x or 5.5-22x model will work fine, just make sure you have matching turret with reticle and try to save some $$ for zerostop.

Hope this helps.

 

[bohem]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

I have shot SB, Swaro, Zeiss, Kahles, Nightforce, Leupold. I own Zeiss and NF's.

I have a 5.5-22 adn a pair of 3.5-15's, all with the NP-R1 reticle and MOA knobs.

My match partner and I both shoot 5.5-22's on the long range bolt rifles adn both shoot 3.5-15's on our DPMS 260's for stuff inside 1k. We had very good success with both scopes this weekend, we used the 3.5-15's on 15x almost exclusively. The 5.5-22's spent about 75% of the time on 22x and 25% on 11x so that ranging was easy still.

You are unlikely to find a more rough and tumble scope than the NXS series NF's that I mentioned, especially in your price range.

As far as glass quality goes, the NF's give up a little bit to Swaro, SB, Kahles and Zeiss to my eye. It's most noticeable in low/no light conditions.

I was spotting misses in grass/dirt/weeds at 1680yd with the 5.5-22 for both myself and my buddy with it Sunday. Mirage was very mild.

You won't be sorry you bought a NF.

 

[DirtDart]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

My fu@& up. Target in sight is right don't know why I said 25

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Target In Sight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its actually 5.5-22x. Now, 22x is good to have, and you can use 11 to range as well, just have the ranged distance divided by 2.

Edited by Target In Sight (June 16, 2010 18:40)
Edit Reason: caught my mistake on x2 or /2
</div></div>

Perfect example of why SFP blows.....easy enough to mess the math up while sitting in front of a keyboard-imagine being under real stress.

I would spend less on a rifle of the same capability and more on optics if I were in the OP's shoes........

 

[oubeta]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

Great.
Now should I go with MOA or MIL turrets?
Which is the Np1 reticle matched to?

So I should look for a Np1 with Mil turrets and zero stops?

The Vortex PST sounds pretty good as well. I wonder how the class compares to NF.
I've read the reviews on it, but haven't seen any direct comparisons.

thanks for the advice!

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

MLR with Mil Turrets
or
NP-R1 with MOA Turrets (my suggestion)

5.5x22 NF
I don't think zero stop is worth the money, but I don't shoot at night. 2nd focal plane is good for me, but I don't range with the reticle and I dial ele and wind.

Good luck.

 

[270grdeerbullet]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

advise i will never forget if your rifle costs more than your glass then you f***ed up or you you have topped out on optics and just can't do any better.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

Go Mil Mil, it's the way the cool kids roll!

 

[bohem]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

shooting mils or moa doesn't matter, they're just different ways to divide an arc up. What matters is that you shoot a mil reticle with mil turrets or MOA reticle with MOA turrets

Milradian setup: MLR with 0.1mil turrets
MOA setup: NP-R1 with 0.25 moa turrets

 

[oubeta]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

What is the thought on the PST vs the NF?

The PST has some cool features, but glass quality is a bigger issue to me.

 

[bohem]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

No experience with the PST's. Vortex's high end optics that are made in the US have a good reputation. To my knowledge, nobody has PST's in stock now since they haven't arrived yet.

I plan on getting a FFP moa model when they arrive and have some time to be tested by members here.

 

[oubeta]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

Why the MOA over the MIL?
Still trying to grasp which is easier to use.
It seems from reading the MRAD is basically a MIL, correct?
It appears to be easier to use, what am I missing?

 

[bohem]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

MRAD=MIL

These are abbreviations and slang for the complete term of "milliradian"

I might actually beat Lindy to this...

A circle is made up by 2*pi radians. A milliradian is 1/1000th of a radian, therefore, there's 2*pi*1000 mils in a circle = ~26830 mils/circle. 1 radian is ~ 57.3 degress in a radian.

Therefore if you have 1 mil, it's 57.3/1000 degrees = 0.0573deg/mil

A minute of angle is 1/60th of a degree. This is an old nautical navigation term, a second of angle is 1/60th of a minute. So, a quick history lesson: if you have coordinates of

45* 15' 25" N That's the same as 45 degrees + 15/60 degrees + 25/(60*60) degrees = 45.25694* N

Back to subtending the arc:

We've shown that 1 mil = 0.0573*
1/60th of a degree = 1 MOA = 0.0167*

So, a scope that's going to move 0.1mil/click and .25 MOA per click means the following changes in degrees on the circle that your bullet flight path is moving along.

0.1mil = 0.0573/10 = 0.00573*
0.25 MOA = 0.25*0.0167 = 0.004167*

As you can see a 1/4 MOA click is a smaller movement thatn the 0.1mil click is.

This means very little unless you are a benchrest shooter trying to get the impact point as close as possible to the exact POA. The BR scopes like a NF or Monarch have 1/8th MOA turrets on them usually.

For a long range practical/tactical shooter mils or minutes is not a hiccup. The hiccup comes when you shoot a Milliradian subtended reticle with minute turrets and/or you shoot a MOA/MOA scope and your spotter is calling shots for you in mils.

The quick math for calling a miss in MOA and converting to mils is that 1 mil ~ 3.5 MOA, which is pretty close to 3.33 MOA, so for anything but tiny tiny targets, I just divide my MOA call by 3 for a mil shooter. It works well enough for fast follow ups.

 

[enkry]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

you could get one of the new Leupold with M5 knobs. Cant go wrong with that scope from all the info Ive heard. Once I get my money together I'm going to get an IOR 3-18x42 FFP. I love the reticle and the glass is top notch.

 

[poorboyshooter]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

for what you are doing 600 to 800 shooting i wound save my money buy the best rings and bases egw or badger and i would at scopes that are clear and track great not just ok ss16x42 will do everything u need and it is tough also rec vortex i have used both from 100 to 1000 yds and ss 16x42 has always be right on vortex i have done the same but do lose about 3/4 moa between 100 and back to 1000 but high price doesnt always mean the best..I have a leapold 8x25x50 elr scope that just sits on my safe. just one shooters views

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oubeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why the MOA over the MIL?
Still trying to grasp which is easier to use.
It seems from reading the MRAD is basically a MIL, correct?
It appears to be easier to use, what am I missing? </div></div>

I use MOA because I don't know what a mil "is" other than 3.6" at 100 yards. I know (on the fly) an MOA is (approximately) 1" at 100 yards, 2" at 200 yards, 4" at 400 yards, 8" at 800 yards, etc.

You have to know how you shoot and what you will be using your equipment for. I shoot known distance matches or we use range finders. I do not have to range targets with my scope.

We don't have reticles in our binocs or spotting scopes. If I miss a target at 400 yards and the spotter calls it left, I know what an MOA or click is at 400 yards. I don't think you can make a mil call without spotting with a rifle scope or a reticled binoc/spotting scope, unless you are holistic with mils.

Just my 2 cents. You have to know what you are going to use it for. Go to whatever match you are planning on using it for and see what everyone else is using. If I shot with guys with MIL scopes and we spotted through our rifle scopes, I would have bought a MIL scope.

Good luck.

 

[Target In Sight]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Target In Sight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its actually 5.5-22x. Now, 22x is good to have, and you can use 11 to range as well, just have the ranged distance divided by 2.

Edited by Target In Sight (June 16, 2010 18:40)
Edit Reason: caught my mistake on x2 or /2
</div></div>

Perfect example of why SFP blows.....easy enough to mess the math up while sitting in front of a keyboard-imagine being under real stress.

I would spend less on a rifle of the same capability and more on optics if I were in the OP's shoes........ </div></div>

Yep, that's why I changed to USO with FFP, one less thing to cause error on the field.

 

[hodds]

Re: Scope Suggestions for Newbie

Nightforce 3-15x gets my vote in that price range