Scoping a Battle Rifle (308)

B

bmt

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 21, 2010
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Skinner's Mudhole, Oregon
#1
My google failure may be illsutrated by this thread . . . .

I have a DSMS AP4 308. It has worn a Leupold HUNTING scope for a while.

The Scope has been placed on a HUNTING rifle.

Looking for a proper scope set up for a General Purpose "Battle Rifle."

My thoughts go toward ACOGS as this 308 easily makes hits at 300 yards (16 inch barrell).

I am looking at the TA11j-308 (3.5 fixed power w/ tritium reticle) (this one has the range markings for 14-20 inch barrelled 308s).

Eye relief is good good for shooting up close (but not door kickin' SWAT raids close).

Any thoughts? Have looked at nightforce 2.5-10s, but not "thinking" about "designated marksman" optics.

BTW-Usage is some hunting, plinking, and Carbine Classes. Reagan was president when I was young enough for all the fun stuff.

BMT
 
#3
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PoniesWhee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I recall correctly some of those .308 ACOGS are calibrated for machine guns and will be way off with an AR so just be sure you're looking at the right scope. </div></div>

True. I called and asked. One is for the m240, one is for flat-top ARs.

I am looking at the AR model, here:.

http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TA11J

BMT
 
#4
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

I don't like the ACOG stuff because of the eye relief. I need to get my face real close to the optic to make it work for me. Nice stuff tho...
Heres my Noveske AR in 308. It's wearing a Nightforce 2.5-10x24.
IMG_6470.jpg
 
#5
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boardride</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't like the ACOG stuff because of the eye relief. I need to get my face real close to the optic to make it work for me. Nice stuff tho...
Heres my Noveske AR in 308. It's wearing a Nightforce 2.5-10x24.
IMG_6470.jpg
</div></div>

That looks really nice. How do you like it??
 
#6
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

The AR-10 platform is a breeze to shoot. Fast follow up shots and accurate too. My setup is on the heavy side tho, but I'm sure it helps keep the muzzle rise down. It is also very loud. The KX3 does well at keeping muzzle blast down range. Nice thing about the Armalite lowers is that I can run 25 round mags.
 
#7
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

The TA11 series acogs have looooooooong eye relief. Its almost 4 inches.

I mounted a ta11 on mine and called trijicon to figure out the ballistics. If you run a 155g really hot it will almost follow the bdc to 800 yards.

_U6L0488b.jpg
 
#8
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

I have SWFA SS 3-9x42 scopes on my LMT MWS and M1A NM and really like them. But if you are not looking at DMR scopes and want something fast for close shooting I'd suggest looking hard at the 1-4 scopes. I was lucky enough to test the SWFA SS 1-4 HD scopes before they came out and ran them aginst an Airpoint up close and a TA50-4 ACOG (3X compact) at mid range. When I get my SS 1-4 HD the ACOG will be up for sale. I tested out to 800 yards on steel targets. Regan was not the first President I voted for either. Link to test report.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2245510&page=1el
 
#10
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boardride</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't like the ACOG stuff because of the eye relief. I need to get my face real close to the optic to make it work for me. Nice stuff tho...
Heres my Noveske AR in 308. It's wearing a Nightforce 2.5-10x24.
IMG_6470.jpg
</div></div>

Nice, What Reticle you runnin'?

BMT
 
#13
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The NightForce would be my hands down choce over the ACOG. </div></div>

Batteries really? Good luck using it at night when your batteries go dead or it breaks.
 
#14
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

A night force 2.5-10 X32 you could consider the velocity reticles. Sight them in at two hundred yards and you have 100-600 yards with 5 and 10 mph windage marks. Piggy back it with a doctor red dot and you can get from point blank to 600 yards fairly quickly and with combat effective accuracy. Or maybe the 1-4x version. Elcan makes a Specter Dr that switches from 1=4x with a throw lever, think they have a model that goes to 6x as well.
 
#17
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHAT?

No Swiss Army Knife?

grin.gif


BMT </div></div>

I was just gonna say I don't see a fold out spork...
 
#18
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boardride</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FC-2 </div></div>

Hmmmmm . . . .

Its a wierd lookin' reticle.

But Nightforce says its a CQB reticle.

I'm gonna have to look through one.

Thanks

BMT
 
#19
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

Let me see if I got this....

You removed a working scope from your rifle..

Now you are looking for something you can spend time and effort to adjust just so you can have the crosshairs right on @300 instead of aiming 4-1/2" high?

I admit having the latest greatest and most expensive stuff out there is cool, but unless you are going for competitions and having to re-zero your rifle every two or three minutes....

As far as a tritium reticle goes, will you be able to see your targets without it?

Anyhow, not trying to fluff your feathers, but unless you intend to shoot benchrest, or have other needs to hit teeny tiny targets or make groups there you really do not need to get all that fancy.

My number one first and foremost requirement in an optic is being able to see my target, everything else is window dressing.
 
#20
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cvedrick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let me see if I got this....

You removed a working scope from your rifle..

Now you are looking for something you can spend time and effort on just so you can have the crosshairs right on @300 instead of aiming 4-1/2" high?

I admit having the latest greatest and most expensive stuff out there is cool, but unless you are going for competitions and having to re-zero your rifle every two or three minutes.

As far as a tritium reticle goes, will you be able to see your targets without it?

</div></div>

Dooood . . . .

The pictured scope went on a 375 Hunting Rifle. I bought the rifle when Ruger Issued 375 Ruger Alaskans in LEFT HAND--Ruger made a limited run and altered a planned time-line.

The 6x42 leupold works great there, and it hunts well here in the coast range here in Orygun--I skipped the 300 Win /338 mag range and moved up.

So, I scavenged the scope from the AR

Now, looking for another scope for the AR.

BMT
 
#21
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

Try on of these

http://www.opticstalk.com/major-savings-on-discontinued-close-out-burris_topic26571.html

I get confused frequently by some of the guys that buy an $800.00 AR (.556) and then go out and spend another $2000 or so in order to "make it look cool" I do have buddies that use the ACOGs and Holosights but generally just get "hunting" scopes for myself, just enough to see the target, not count ear hairs...

BTW The Rock River mounts are worth the cash, 1 piece and you do not have to go out and get a riser or rings, just screw it on...

Oh and by the by The guys over at SWFA are more than glad to spend the telephone time to make you happy, give them a call.

I would use them more myself, but hate paying state taxes...
 
#22
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

I agree +1 for the Nightforce over any the optics mentioned. On the other hand if you could wait till june IOR will be releaseing thier new 1x10x26 with digital illumination. It will have the MP-8 dot in the 1st focal plane, and daylight bright dot in the 2nd focal plane. it is a true 1 power like the aimpointand true 10 power which will take your rifle above its limits of it's effective range. You can bet this scope will be on top of my POF 308 16" by july. A scope that can clear a room if nessary and with the turn of the mag ring take targets at 800-1000 yards to me is perfect for any 308 16 carbines. If interested Scott @ Liberty Optics will take care of your every need. also Scott has a somewhat review of this scope from the 2011 shot show on his blog at Liberty Optics. IMHO this scope beats the Nightforce 2.5x10 hands down. you may pay a little more but you want be disapointed and it will be all the scope you'll ever need for the rifle mentioned. just my 2 cents worth.
 
#23
Re: Scoping a Battle Rifle (308)

I didn't see how long your barrel is. So if you are referring to your AR as a battle rifle, I will assume it is 20" or less and mobile enough to be running around with.
I advise against some of the fie top-quality 50 or 50mm Obj scopes. They are too big & heavy for a battle rifle. With the bigger objectives they have to have high, or Super-High rings making the weapon top heavy and want to cant to the side. A 40 mm Obj. is the largest you want for battle.
I have tried several different sights on my most mobile AR-10(T) 16" Carbine. It is compact enough to want a red dot for CQB. It has <span style="font-style: italic">serious</span> firepower to bear for quick sighting to 250 yards, is accurate enough to shoot well out to 600 yards.
<span style="font-style: italic">My solution:</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">All</span> mounts are ARMS SWAN lever mount, <span style="font-style: italic">return-to-zero</span>.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #1</span> AIMPOINT Comp C3 - 2X, 1 MOA dot
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #2</span> AIMPOINT with AIMPOINT 3X MAGNIFIER on a Sampson Flip-Mount. Allows my 2 power AIMPOINT to switch to a 6 power instantly and still be on zero, or flip to the side or CQB in less than a second and still stay on target.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #3</span> AIMPOINT and magnifier off in seconds, with Leupold Mk IV 4.5-14 40mm MilDot mounted in seconds and still zeroed.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #4 </span>Close up of mounts
All optics are compact and durable to carry in a small pack. Since they are replaceable in seconds with constant / reliable zero I can shoot face to face, or out to 600+ yards.
AR-10TOptics240.jpg

AR-10TOptics140.jpg

AR-10TOptics340.jpg

AR-10TOptics404.jpg
 
#27
Re: Scoping a Battle Rifle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WARDOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't see how long your barrel is. So if you are referring to your AR as a battle rifle, I will assume it is 20" or less and mobile enough to be running around with.</div></div>

Sixteen Inch tube.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I advise against some of the fie top-quality 50 or 50mm Obj scopes. They are too big & heavy for a battle rifle. With the bigger objectives they have to have high, or Super-High rings making the weapon top heavy and want to cant to the side. A 40 mm Obj. is the largest you want for battle.
I have tried several different sights on my most mobile AR-10(T) 16" Carbine. It is compact enough to want a red dot for CQB. It has <span style="font-style: italic">serious</span> firepower to bear for quick sighting to 250 yards, is accurate enough to shoot well out to 600 yards.
<span style="font-style: italic">My solution:</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">All</span> mounts are ARMS SWAN lever mount, <span style="font-style: italic">return-to-zero</span>.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #1</span> AIMPOINT Comp C3 - 2X, 1 MOA dot
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #2</span> AIMPOINT with AIMPOINT 3X MAGNIFIER on a Sampson Flip-Mount. Allows my 2 power AIMPOINT to switch to a 6 power instantly and still be on zero, or flip to the side or CQB in less than a second and still stay on target.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #3</span> AIMPOINT and magnifier off in seconds, with Leupold Mk IV 4.5-14 40mm MilDot mounted in seconds and still zeroed.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #4 </span>Close up of mounts
All optics are compact and durable to carry in a small pack. Since they are replaceable in seconds with constant / reliable zero I can shoot face to face, or out to 600+ yards.
AR-10TOptics240.jpg

AR-10TOptics140.jpg

AR-10TOptics340.jpg

AR-10TOptics404.jpg
</div></div>

Nice Set up.

Thanks.
 
#28
Re: Scoping a Battle Rifle (308)

Just throwing this out as a suggestion. You could go with whatever as your primary optic and have an offset reddot for close stuff. Maybe check out some raceguns from 3 gun/carbine competitors?
 
#30
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here is what I'm thinkin

MP5-2.jpg
</div></div>

WHAT?

No Swiss Army Knife?

grin.gif


BMT </div></div>

I was looking for the bayonet....
 
#32
Re: Scoping a Battle Rifle (UPDATE)

Thanks to all for the great input.

Waaaayyy too many options out there. Almost all of them good ones.

In the end, I chose the Aimpoint Micro T1 on a Larue Mount.

http://www.sportoptics.com/aimpoint11830C.aspx

The guys at Sport Optics were great.

I must admit that this video STRONGLY influenced me:

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xfojMy1MWok&feature=player_embedded#!"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xfojMy1MWok&feature=player_embedded#!" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

BMT
 
#33
Re: Scoping a Battle Rifle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WARDOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't see how long your barrel is. So if you are referring to your AR as a battle rifle, I will assume it is 20" or less and mobile enough to be running around with.</div></div>

Sixteen Inch tube.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I advise against some of the fie top-quality 50 or 50mm Obj scopes. They are too big & heavy for a battle rifle. With the bigger objectives they have to have high, or Super-High rings making the weapon top heavy and want to cant to the side. A 40 mm Obj. is the largest you want for battle.
I have tried several different sights on my most mobile AR-10(T) 16" Carbine. It is compact enough to want a red dot for CQB. It has <span style="font-style: italic">serious</span> firepower to bear for quick sighting to 250 yards, is accurate enough to shoot well out to 600 yards.
<span style="font-style: italic">My solution:</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">All</span> mounts are ARMS SWAN lever mount, <span style="font-style: italic">return-to-zero</span>.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #1</span> AIMPOINT Comp C3 - 2X, 1 MOA dot
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #2</span> AIMPOINT with AIMPOINT 3X MAGNIFIER on a Sampson Flip-Mount. Allows my 2 power AIMPOINT to switch to a 6 power instantly and still be on zero, or flip to the side or CQB in less than a second and still stay on target.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #3</span> AIMPOINT and magnifier off in seconds, with Leupold Mk IV 4.5-14 40mm MilDot mounted in seconds and still zeroed.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Pic #4 </span>Close up of mounts
All optics are compact and durable to carry in a small pack. Since they are replaceable in seconds with constant / reliable zero I can shoot face to face, or out to 600+ yards.
AR-10TOptics240.jpg

AR-10TOptics140.jpg

AR-10TOptics340.jpg

AR-10TOptics404.jpg
</div></div>

Nice Set up.

Thanks. </div></div>

I run a somewhat similar 2 set of optics with the ARMS mounts on my shorty and it works out great for me.
 
#35
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here is what I'm thinkin

MP5-2.jpg
</div></div>

Sons of guns mp5 sniper? lmfao
 
#36
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

I realize that the OP has already chosen... and I must say, GREAT CHOICE. I love the AimPoint products, and find them completely reliable.

On my PWS MK214, I am running a US Optics SN3 TPAL 3.2-17 simply because I am using it in classes as a Law Enforcement Tactical Precision Rifle. What makes it even more strange, is that my rifle has a 14.5" barrel on it, so the SN3 is HUGE compared to the MK214. Yes, it looks funny, but it is an amazing optic, that really lets me stretch the capabilities of this little rifle.

I will be putting a US Optics SN3 TPAL 1.8-10 on it, as soon as the knobs are built. This, will be more in line with what I am using this rifle for.

Now... having said all that, if I was using this rifle in the way it was intended to be used... as a heavy hitting "battle rifle"... I would be using something in the 1-4 power range, with a graduated reticle. Most likely, a US Optics SN4S would reside on the top rail... or a SWFA SS 1-4.

However... the T1 is a great optic and will give years of trouble free service.
 
#37
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

SWFA SS 1-4 as Mack stated. When tough construction, solid eye relief, wide wide field of view, and great FFP reticle for CQB and targets out to 400 yards, are paramount. The SS 1-4 is tops.

The lit reticle is daylight bright. At 1X it is a true one power, both eyes open, optic to rival Aimpoint. At 4X it is a clear, crisp, bright optic with mil hold off ability.

And compact too! Not a big package.

(I'd also recommend U.S. Optics low powered scopes as bomb proof top quality stuff for this application.)

The only shortcoming would be relying on batteries. Then again, you can still use the reticle as much as ambient light permits when the battery fails.

I guess I am really impressed with the SWFA SS 1-4 optic.
 
#38
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DMack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I realize that the OP has already chosen... and I must say, GREAT CHOICE. . . . [The]T1 is a great optic and will give years of trouble free service. </div></div>

Thanks, I was so frustrated, I started this Thread: https://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2418004

Too many really good choices. I chose the LaRue Mount so that I could do swap out in the future.

PLease send more $$$, I don't have enough guns . . . . .
grin.gif
 
#39
Re: Scoping a Battle Rifle (308)

+1 for LR scopes. just add a smaaal offset Docter holosight on RH side if you expecting someone close nuf.
My choice is Pemier 3-15.

5009208.jpg
 
#41
Re: Scoping a Battle Rifle (308)

When I first purchased my LMT MWS, I had a TA11 on top, a F series, calibrated for the .223/5.56. I used this scope to see if I really wanted an 11 series for the rifle, if so I would have purchased one with the .308 reticle. The TA11 was great and I liked it a lot, but after 100 rounds, the rifle was begging for more magnification. Picture of the MWS with TA11:
77Bronc001.jpg


In June I ordered a USOptics SN3 TPal, 1.8-10 with EREK, USO rings and this is an outstanding set up. I am very pleased.
August20th005-1.jpg


77
 
#44
Re: Scoping a Battle Rifle (308)

Been battling with this same question. Was leaning towards the USO 1.8-10 but have settled on an eotech with a qd mount and a heavy 3-15 premier on a larue qd . Just swap them out in less than 30 seconds and they retain zero perfectly.
 
#46
Re: Scoping a Battle Rifle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucksthename</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That OBR is beautiful </div></div>

......ummmmmhhhhh.....?????? huh?</div></div>

Not sure who's ears are ringing more, LMT or Mark LaRue.
 
#47
Re: Scoping a Battle RIfle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PenisPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont quote the trolls. Notify the mods. </div></div>

You should probably just leave now.
 
#48
Re: Scoping a Battle Rifle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 223Rem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucksthename</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That OBR is beautiful </div></div>

......ummmmmhhhhh.....?????? huh?</div></div>

Not sure who's ears are ringing more, LMT or Mark LaRue. </div></div>

Hey, I mean look at that hand guard. Just close your eyes and feel those curves!
smile.gif
 
#49
Re: Scoping a Battle Rifle (308)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glockdan78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Been battling with this same question. Was leaning towards the USO 1.8-10 but have settled on an eotech with a qd mount and a heavy 3-15 premier on a larue qd . Just swap them out in less than 30 seconds and they retain zero perfectly. </div></div>

seriously thinkning about two uppers.

One carbine with an aimpoint, one precision with a Nightforce.

BMT
 
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